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Magic: the Gathering - Oath o/t Gatewatch |OT| Look again, the mana is now diamonds!
- Thread starter SigmasonicX
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SigmasonicX
Member
What, Dead Weight? That's a reprint from OG Innistrad, even using the same art, though different flavor text. Plus, it was part of the earlier set of leaks.
It was lucky that this booster pack has the same rare as the previous one. And it oddly doesn't have any of the set mechanics. Lightning Axe is an interesting reprint here.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
A bunch of these cards are reprints.
Lightning Axe, Fiery Temper, Dead Weight, Magmatic Chasm are all reprints.
LOL so yeah I guess there is 100% a Box of SOI just out there in the wild.
Glad to see Dead Weight is back. Feels good to know there will be some actually good limited removal in the set along with Fiery Temper. I'm hoping everything else isn't awful or anything though. Also interesting that Pieces of the Puzzle is a 99% better version of Undiscovered Clues <3
If they aren't going to make better versions of these cards (and most of them don't need better versions) I much prefer reprints to stuff like over-costed versions of these cards (see the Dead Weight variant in Khans as an example)
Glad to see Dead Weight is back. Feels good to know there will be some actually good limited removal in the set along with Fiery Temper. I'm hoping everything else isn't awful or anything though. Also interesting that Pieces of the Puzzle is a 99% better version of Undiscovered Clues <3
If they aren't going to make better versions of these cards (and most of them don't need better versions) I much prefer reprints to stuff like over-costed versions of these cards (see the Dead Weight variant in Khans as an example)
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
The most worrying thing to me is how garbage Mindbreaker Demon is (apparently). Like, I don't get at all why it has that drawback. Why should the Delirium mechanic be a drawback to begin with? It seems orders of magnitude worse than even Desecration Demon, which was a regular rare and creatures have not been depowered at all from Return to Ravnica block.
Is this card supposed to be a feel-good story?This thing with Risen Executioner is kinda funny.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
The feel-good story is Snapcaster Mage x Ash Zealot fanfics.
Loving this leak better than Kozilek + wastes. Took the sails right out the wind. That's how it's said right? Am I doing it right?
Anyway WOTC can't keep their shit together on leaks man. I dunno if it's because I'm back in the game or what.
When I used to post a lot about MTG when I was younger it was during the golden age of leaks (rancored_elf et al). I was there when Judgment got leaked, hoo boy that was a shitstorm and was fun times.
Anyway WOTC can't keep their shit together on leaks man. I dunno if it's because I'm back in the game or what.
When I used to post a lot about MTG when I was younger it was during the golden age of leaks (rancored_elf et al). I was there when Judgment got leaked, hoo boy that was a shitstorm and was fun times.
I like that draw, untap, discard card. I like that you untap before you discard so you can pay for madness costs.
I still think a huge issue with both mechanics is they just don't fit the Eldrazi at all, in the slightest.
They are are perfect for Phyrexians - heck, Phyrexians have been using ingest and process as part of their vocabulary and 'what they do' for decades. It fits their concept completely - they destroy you, and use your own strengths against you. Making your enemies cards a resource for you to use is literally their entire concept thematically. Even the way the mechanics interact is Phyrexians - you're literally building a machine with your deck to do one thing that leads to another.
Meanwhile, it's totally out of theme for the Eldrazi - they just destroy stuff. Painfully, on a massive scale. They don't build machines and develop complex strategies that rely on you doing multiple things in the right order, they ramp up into huge eldritch monstrosities that annihilate you on a level never before seen. They change the rules and break the rules to kill you.
I do wonder if process and ingest were discarded ideas from Scars of Mirrodin, I just cannot get over how thematically wrong they are for the Eldrazi, and how perfect they are for Phyrexians.
Just realised that both blue spells in here are Jace looking over clues, lol. Jace, Ace Detective might be closer to reality than I thought.
Yeah, there's been one. The guy seems to have removed both the rare and the flip from this last pack though.
edit: this is the rare leaked yesterday:
From Mythic Spoiler:
Several other new cards have also been leaked. Looks like another opened booster.
Several other new cards have also been leaked. Looks like another opened booster.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
From Mythic Spoiler:
Several other new cards have also been leaked. Looks like another opened booster.
that's actually from the Vs deck releasing before SoI. The other deck has Geist of Saint Traft.
Right. Alongside the Oath of the Gatewatch leak. My bad.
charlequin
Banned
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Jace, Master Detective 2WU 3
+1: Investigate. (Put a colorless Clue artifact token onto the battlefield with "2, Sacrifice this artifact: Draw a card.")
-3: You may sacrifice any number of Clue artifacts. For each artifact you sacrifice this way, draw two cards.
-6: Name a legendary creature, a land and an Equipment card, then reveal your hand. If you do, you win the game if you own one card with each name in your hand,
WOTC isn't fun enough to do anything like that though
+1: Investigate. (Put a colorless Clue artifact token onto the battlefield with "2, Sacrifice this artifact: Draw a card.")
-3: You may sacrifice any number of Clue artifacts. For each artifact you sacrifice this way, draw two cards.
-6: Name a legendary creature, a land and an Equipment card, then reveal your hand. If you do, you win the game if you own one card with each name in your hand,
WOTC isn't fun enough to do anything like that though
Jace, Master Detective 2WU 3
+1: Investigate. (Put a colorless Clue artifact token onto the battlefield with "2, Sacrifice this artifact: Draw a card.")
-3: You may sacrifice any number of Clue artifacts. For each artifact you sacrifice this way, draw two cards.
-6: Name a legendary creature, a land and an Equipment card, then reveal your hand. If you do, you win the game if you own one card with each name in your hand,
WOTC isn't fun enough to do anything like that though
Haha I like this. I wanna take a stab.
Jace Belerin, PI 2WU
+2: Name a non-land card. Target opponent reveals their hand. Draw a card for each revealed copy of the named card.
-2: Add (<>) to your mana pool for each Clue artifact you control.
-7: Search any library for a legendary creature card and exile it. You may cast that card without paying its cost until the end of the turn if it came from your library.
3
+2: Name a non-land card. Target opponent reveals their hand. Draw a card for each revealed copy of the named card.
-2: Add (<>) to your mana pool for each Clue artifact you control.
-7: Search any library for a legendary creature card and exile it. You may cast that card without paying its cost until the end of the turn if it came from your library.
3
I just hope it's a non-traditional Jace.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Jace, Master Detective 2WU 3
+1: Investigate. (Put a colorless Clue artifact token onto the battlefield with "2, Sacrifice this artifact: Draw a card.")
-3: You may sacrifice any number of Clue artifacts. For each artifact you sacrifice this way, draw two cards.
-6: Name a legendary creature, a land and an Equipment card, then reveal your hand. If you do, you win the game if you own one card with each name in your hand,
WOTC isn't fun enough to do anything like that though
You'd have to find a card first that contains the name of a legendary creature, a land and an equipment.
Semantics
Sad to hear.
Nah, its bad for Phyrexians. They dont eat things. They just didnt go far enough adding nom nom abilities to big guys (engulf, make it work like annhilator on them) in adddition to ingest on small ones.
The big issue i had was actually the creatures youd sac and get a spawn, that was totally out of NPH and very inappropriate for the Eldrazi. Vile redeemer on thw other hand was just fine.
Until something from Eldrazi gets banned, how does infect adjust to compete with it? I like Brian Demar's thoughts on mb more Viridian Corrupters for Chalice and Spellskites. Plus Affinity was the 2nd strongest deck.
Some Dismembers mb probably needs to be added. -5/-5 takes care of all of their threats at the cost of a lot of life. Could be a reason to go into G/B. Let's hope they have an urborg to lessen the pain lol.
Gutshot seems good in the sb. Takes care of Mimics along with a few other creatures in the UR version. Also hits Blinkmoth.
I've been pretty impressed with Slip Through Space in testing. Helps push through where Apostle's Blessing can't anymore since they have coloress and not artifact creatures, plus Mutuvaults backing them up.
Some Dismembers mb probably needs to be added. -5/-5 takes care of all of their threats at the cost of a lot of life. Could be a reason to go into G/B. Let's hope they have an urborg to lessen the pain lol.
Gutshot seems good in the sb. Takes care of Mimics along with a few other creatures in the UR version. Also hits Blinkmoth.
I've been pretty impressed with Slip Through Space in testing. Helps push through where Apostle's Blessing can't anymore since they have coloress and not artifact creatures, plus Mutuvaults backing them up.
I will be completely surprised if WotC doesn't ban something. It's either got to be Eye or Temple.
Eye of Ugin produces 2 mana per colorless Eldrazi every turn. It's basically an uncounterable, drawback-less Heartless Summoning for the deck. I also think it's the card that enables the most broken of the draws. Plus, while not good in multiples in the late game, it has utility later on, if things somehow get to that point.
Eldrazi Temple is, in this deck, a free Sol land for creatures in a format that doesn't really allow for cheap Sol effects, and also produces a colorless for non-Eldrazi spells/abilities. It's better in multiples than Eye as well.
I think if you ban Eye, the deck survives and comes down to Earth some, but it's still probably going to be too good (turn 1 mimic, turn 2 Thought-Knot is still pretty disgusting). I think if you ban Temple, you still get some sick stuff going on (turn 2 Thought-Knot with Urborg is just disgusting if you dropped any Mimics on turn 1).
Personally I think both need to go because the deck is pretty unhealthy. But if I had to pick I'd jettison Eye, Tron-decks be damned. And I love Tron decks.
Eye of Ugin produces 2 mana per colorless Eldrazi every turn. It's basically an uncounterable, drawback-less Heartless Summoning for the deck. I also think it's the card that enables the most broken of the draws. Plus, while not good in multiples in the late game, it has utility later on, if things somehow get to that point.
Eldrazi Temple is, in this deck, a free Sol land for creatures in a format that doesn't really allow for cheap Sol effects, and also produces a colorless for non-Eldrazi spells/abilities. It's better in multiples than Eye as well.
I think if you ban Eye, the deck survives and comes down to Earth some, but it's still probably going to be too good (turn 1 mimic, turn 2 Thought-Knot is still pretty disgusting). I think if you ban Temple, you still get some sick stuff going on (turn 2 Thought-Knot with Urborg is just disgusting if you dropped any Mimics on turn 1).
Personally I think both need to go because the deck is pretty unhealthy. But if I had to pick I'd jettison Eye, Tron-decks be damned. And I love Tron decks.
Instead of talking about banning Eye or Temple, is there anything that could come off of the ban list that would balance the field somewhat?
I find that WotC's reliance on bans, rather than unbans and proactive design in future sets (like, a mechanic or cycle of cards that hurts the strong decks), somewhat troubling. They can't be happy that so many players see a deck dominating the pro tour saying, "Oh, jeez, I guess I'd better sell all my Eyes before it gets banned." That's not a healthy perspective for impassioned and dedicated players to have.
Like, how about a creature:
(I say this having just completed a Melira Pod deck when Birthing Pod was banned.)
I find that WotC's reliance on bans, rather than unbans and proactive design in future sets (like, a mechanic or cycle of cards that hurts the strong decks), somewhat troubling. They can't be happy that so many players see a deck dominating the pro tour saying, "Oh, jeez, I guess I'd better sell all my Eyes before it gets banned." That's not a healthy perspective for impassioned and dedicated players to have.
Like, how about a creature:
(I say this having just completed a Melira Pod deck when Birthing Pod was banned.)
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Uh...Wasteland? Whatever it'd be it would have to be a land.
And of course, this is ignoring the obvious that while WotC can emergency ban something, they can't emergency print something.
And of course, this is ignoring the obvious that while WotC can emergency ban something, they can't emergency print something.
No. There isn't.
This is a mentatlity trap that new/bad players fall into - if there's a problem, there must be a solution! But there isn't one. There is no answer- we have enough good players to find one. In the case of Eye, it causes the deck to be too damn fast. The mimic Draws are absolutely ridiculous and completely broken, and Eye is the card that enables them. You cannot "metagame" against the nutdraws for the deck because it will often be getting them out on the board before you even get a chance to interact with them (and it even has a V. Clique to grab the answers out of your hand.)
I keep comparing this to Darksteel-era Standard for a reason- that deck was also colorless, way too fast, and way too resilient in the face of hate cards.
In the case of Modern, they're deliberately keeping out the catch-all answer of huigh powered cheap countermagic. Thus, the answer will be bans. And that's ok. People are just really, really bad at reading tea leaves and planning ahead because they don't get enough information about the format before making decisions. And Pod/Twin bans really didn't end up being that bad because the cards in the decks were still playable without those signature cards.
I'm not usually for bans. A situation like this is why superfluous bans like the Splinter Twin one are a problem. This is a real emergency that could do damage to the format as a whole if action isn't taken. And it looks way worse following a recent, possibly-unneeded banning.
I hate to say it, but there are going to be games where Prism Sentinel is going to be too slow. It costing UW is also a problem, as it won't slot into every (honestly, almost any) deck. I guess its presence would help some, but it wouldn't help things like Abazn, Burn, Jund, Zoo, Scapeshift... the list goes on. Also it's super narrow. You'd need something more vague and generic. A terrible example would be:
Now you have a hate card that affects multiple problem decks and cuts down on some shenanigans across the board and slots in anywhere it's needed, but is also still vulnerable to answers like artifact hate.
That said, I don't know if silver bullet answers are the way to go about taking down a deck this oppressive.
I hate to say it, but there are going to be games where Prism Sentinel is going to be too slow. It costing UW is also a problem, as it won't slot into every (honestly, almost any) deck. I guess its presence would help some, but it wouldn't help things like Abazn, Burn, Jund, Zoo, Scapeshift... the list goes on. Also it's super narrow. You'd need something more vague and generic. A terrible example would be:
Mirror of Truth (1)
Artifact
If a creature would enter the battlefield,
exile it unless cast using its full casting
cost.
Lands can only produce one mana
of any type of mana they are able to
produce.
Artifact
If a creature would enter the battlefield,
exile it unless cast using its full casting
cost.
Lands can only produce one mana
of any type of mana they are able to
produce.
Now you have a hate card that affects multiple problem decks and cuts down on some shenanigans across the board and slots in anywhere it's needed, but is also still vulnerable to answers like artifact hate.
That said, I don't know if silver bullet answers are the way to go about taking down a deck this oppressive.
They have 8 Ancient Tombs
Even if you are willing to use 4 slots in your Sideboard on one of these cards, they still have a better chance of having an Ancient Tomb
"God's Beard!"
Member
It looks like Avaricious Dragon is the new See the Unwritten for the speculator spikes.
Right. I agree with you. This is not the answer. A ban is. But in the interest of playing Devil's Advocate, I came up with a design (though it should be worded "any type of mana", not any "color").
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
The Mirror would do nothing against Eldrazi temple nor the tron lands, it'd basically only hurt Amulet and any decks running filterlands.
I'm sure my templating is wrong. I'm not good at that. But what I'm going for shouldn't be hard to understand.
The first effect should shut down any creature cast using Eye of Ugin or Heartless Summoning by exiling creatures cast with a reduced rate. It would also prevent cards like Collected Company, Matter Reshaper, or decks using reanimator spells from working.
The second ability should mean Temple only taps for 1 instead of 2.
You can word that for me if you like. But that was the intention.
"God's Beard!"
Member
You could always ban Mimic and Thought-Knot Seer. It's not like WotC is gona print a new batch of cheap Eldrazi any time soon.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";194710809]You could always ban Mimic and Thought-Knot Seer. It's not like WotC is gona print a new batch of cheap Eldrazi any time soon.[/QUOTE]
Honestly, that would do it too. But it still wouldn't be safe enough.
Honestly, that would do it too. But it still wouldn't be safe enough.
charlequin
Banned
Jace, Master Detective 2WU 3
+1: Investigate. (Put a colorless Clue artifact token onto the battlefield with "2, Sacrifice this artifact: Draw a card.")
-3: You may sacrifice any number of Clue artifacts. For each artifact you sacrifice this way, draw two cards.
-6: Name a legendary creature, a land and an Equipment card, then reveal your hand. If you do, you win the game if you own one card with each name in your hand,
WOTC isn't fun enough to do anything like that though
lulz
I feel like if you're gonna do this you should go all the way though, so it probably works better as a legendary creature:
Sherlock Hemlock, Cool-Ass Detective 2UU
1/1
Legendary Creature - Detective
When ~ ETB, write three card names on a piece of paper and put it face down under ~. At the beginning of your upkeep, you may reveal that paper; if the three names refer to a legendary creature in your graveyard, a land on the battlefield in your control, and an equipment card in your hand, you win the game.
Yep I agree with all this.
Well, there's precedent with Corpsehatch, but I always thought that was out of place even in the original ROE (and then NPH tread the exact same ground with Beast Within.)
There's literally a card called Phyrexian Ingester... It exiles creatures to give itself a power and toughness boost!
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Wait. Overpowered Eldrazis. Banning the top UR deck out of nowhere. Eternal Masters.
Force of Will.
It's coming.
Force of Will.
It's coming.
On the flip side, would there be any value in WotC instituting a Restricted list in Modern? How would only being able to play one Eye of Ugin affect the deck? What other cards would be eligible for a restricted list? Would there even be much of a difference between banned and restricted cards?
Ultimately, I recognize that emergency bans cover development mistakes by WotC and are often unavoidable (as opposed to bans like Splinter Twin or Birthing Pod), but disagree with the approach to managing Modern by maintaining a big, long list of powerful banned cards. Honestly, I might not feel so salty about it all if WotC was more liberal in unbanning cards, or, as someone suggested, putting cards on a watch list for a while before banning them.
(I should point out that I don't play the Eldrazi deck and have no real financial stakes in Eye or Temple being banned.)
(I've also been out of the loop recently due to a sick toddler and moving cities later this month, so feel free to slap me if I'm repeating already squashed arguments.)
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
ohhhhhh shit I just got what you guys were going with for this
"God's Beard!"
Member
Eternal Masters being a Modern-legal set would be the best. C'mon Baleful Strix and Cabal Therapy!
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