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Magic: the Gathering - Oath o/t Gatewatch |OT| Look again, the mana is now diamonds!

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I

ironmang

Member
traveler said:
I really want to build death and taxes, but I guess it makes zero sense to pursue the deck till Eternal Masters is out as there's a nonzero chance that literally the entire deck shows up in the set.
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The effect of eternal masters is all guess right now. Could do any thing from generating insane interest in the format spiking cards past even pre-reprint numbers or it could crash prices once people realize they can't do much with their opened forces unless they buy $400 blue duals. If Port and/or Karakas isn't reprinted they could spike. It's really not a great time to try and get into legacy or be building new decks.

kirblar said:
G/R should beat this, right? World Breaker + Return.
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Modern is absurd. It's clear eldrazi is the best deck so the real format is metagaming your eldrazi list for other eldrazi lists.
 
I

ironmang

Member
Firemind said:
It's never not a good time to try and get into Legacy.

LOL as if mythic FoWs will tank the price.
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Well, the reprint announcement alone has dropped prices by a fair bit. And that's on the old, superior version. Wait until people open legacy cards and have no reason to keep them.

And none of the major TOs want anything to do with legacy so of course it's a bad time to get into the format. Even an East Coast store that specializes in legacy, Tales of Adventures, is doing a whole series like SCG but from what I hear they're having pretty mediocre attendance.
 
T

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
did wizards somehow not realise the eldrazi was broken as heck or did they just wanna see what would happen or what
 
F

Firemind

Member
ironmang said:
Well, the reprint announcement alone has dropped prices by a fair bit. And that's on the old, superior version. Wait until people open legacy cards and have no reason to keep them.
Click to expand...
That's because they're dumbasses. If you want to get into Legacy, you want Forces.
 
I

ironmang

Member
Firemind said:
That's because they're dumbasses. If you want to get into Legacy, you want Forces.
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Not everybody opening eternal masters will do so with intention of building a legacy deck. Some places have absolutely no legacy scene so what would be the point of holding onto that one force of will someone opens? Really the only good thing about legacy now is the attendance is so bad for 5ks that the EV is insane. SCG Regionals in Baltimore had nearly 500 people for a modern 5k. The week before the same TO ran a legacy 5k at the same convention center and had 90 people.
 
B

bigkrev

Member
Firemind said:
That's because they're dumbasses. If you want to get into Legacy, you want Forces.
Click to expand...

Eternal Masters fixes the issue of 400$ Force of Wills, but fails to address the $1000-2000 of dual lands you need
I'm skeptical it makes Legacy more accessible outside of a brief surge when the set hitd
 
Joe Molotov

Joe Molotov

Member
Even with Eternal Masters, I wonder how much a mythic Force of Will is going to drop the price. You might get lucky and crack one FoW while drafting, but how much are you gonna have to spend to get a playset?
 
B

bigkrev

Member
Joe Molotov said:
Even with Eternal Masters, I wonder how much a mythic Force of Will is going to drop the price. You might get lucky and crack one FoW while drafting, but how much are you gonna have to spend to get a playset?
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Lets use Tarmogoyf and MM1 as an example


It took the card from a ~180 price to a ~150 one, which is about a 15% price drop. And Tarmogoyf is played in both Legacy and Modern (and it's probably more popular in Legacy right now), while Force is played only in Legacy and Vintage. Both are usually played as 4 ofs. I'm actually not sure if an Alliances Uncommon is more or less Rare than a Future Sight Rare, but I think a 15%-20% price drop on Force is reasonable to expect in the short term.
 
N

noquarter

Member
Force of Will is a weird one. You might open two in a case, so really most LGS's will see like one extra playset enter the market. Of those, people that draft it might just throw it into their cubes, EDH decks, keep it to trade or try to complete a playset.

It is a card that could be played in a mono colored deck that is the biggest expense from making a Tier 2 Modern deck Legacy playable, with the other big expense also getting reprinted in Wasteland. Neither deck is going to dominate, but both are playable on a GP level.

Really don't think it will fall too much and wouldn't be surprised if it has taken its biggest hit so far. With that, if I see FoW below $50, I'll probably bite, try to finish my second playset and get it in the new art.
 
B

bigkrev

Member
So I forgot to factor in the value of the actual MM Tarmogoyf in that projection.

This one actually settled at $130 as opposed to the $150 that FUT got to. So it was actually a 30% drop in price on Tarmogoyf if you didn't care about what set it was from.

Considering Force of Will has already dropped from 120 to 90ish since it was announced for reprint- 30%- I don't think buying in right now is such a bad idea.
 
F

Firemind

Member
noquarter said:
Force of Will is a weird one. You might open two in a case, so really most LGS's will see like one extra playset enter the market. Of those, people that draft it might just throw it into their cubes, EDH decks, keep it to trade or try to complete a playset.

It is a card that could be played in a mono colored deck that is the biggest expense from making a Tier 2 Modern deck Legacy playable, with the other big expense also getting reprinted in Wasteland. Neither deck is going to dominate, but both are playable on a GP level.

Really don't think it will fall too much and wouldn't be surprised if it has taken its biggest hit so far. With that, if I see FoW below $50, I'll probably bite, try to finish my second playset and get it in the new art.
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That's actually very true. The most valuable cards in Legacy Merfolk are by far the Forces and unlike Modern, Merfolk is actually a tier one deck. The notion that you need expensive lands in Legacy to be competitive is a load of crap. Hell, Charbelcher can function just fine with Stomping Grounds.
 
S

SigmasonicX

Member
godelsmetric said:
did wizards somehow not realise the eldrazi was broken as heck or did they just wanna see what would happen or what
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They realized that Eye of Ugin would make Eldrazi decks powerful, but no one realized how strong they would be until the previous Pro Tour.

In any case, I do prefer that they wait and see if it will actually be format warping instead of preemptively banning cards.
 
D

Daedardus

Member
SigmasonicX said:
They realized that Eye of Ugin would make Eldrazi decks powerful, but no one realized how strong they would be until the previous Pro Tour.

In any case, I do prefer that they wait and see if it will actually be format warping instead of preemptively banning cards.
Click to expand...

Isn't it format warping already? All major day 2's have like a 40% play rate for Eldrazi and in the biggest tournament 6/8 top 8 players were playing the deck. There's not much more to Modern than Eldrazi it seems, and I'm already getting tired of it.
 
B

bigkrev

Member
Daedardus said:
Isn't it format warping already? All major day 2's have like a 40% play rate for Eldrazi and in the biggest tournament 6/8 top 8 players were playing the deck. There's not much more to Modern than Eldrazi it seems, and I'm already getting tired of it.
Click to expand...

There weren't many Eldrazi decks at the Pro Tour. There are major teams, like The Pantheon, that didn't have anyone playing the deck. There were players on CFB, who probably had the best version of the deck, not playing Eldrazi. There were a ton of people who didn't discover the deck. The fact that the deck was so dominate was not something most people predicted before the Pro Tour.
 
D

Daedardus

Member
bigkrev said:
There weren't many Eldrazi decks at the Pro Tour. There are major teams, like The Pantheon, that didn't have anyone playing the deck. There were players on CFB, who probably had the best version of the deck, not playing Eldrazi. There were a ton of people who didn't discover the deck. The fact that the deck was so dominate was not something most people predicted before the Pro Tour.
Click to expand...

I wasn't arguing before the Pro Tour, I thought Sigma was making a case to wait Eldrazi out for a couple of months instead of doing the bans in April.
 
T

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
how actually viable is eldrazi in legacy? if the deck is okay in that format then i could see it as an argument against eldrazi as-is in modern rather than waiting to see if anyone can come up with a valid counter.
 
B

blindrocket

Member
ironmang said:
I have some of this. What are ya sellin?
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What cards do you have, and are you looking for anything specific? I have quite a bit and may have something that you actually need, or are you just trying to get equal value?

WanderingWind said:
I got these yo.
Click to expand...

I may have a Chalice of the Void coming in a trade, so I'd just need two. Maybe. But otherwise, what are you looking for Wind?

As for anyone else, if you're wanting to start building Eldrazi I do have 4x Ancient Stirrings.
And for Standard I have a fully fleshed out 5C Abzan deck with a play set of Gideon, one of which is Foil. I also have two play sets of Tasigur if anyone still needs that new staple.
 
A

Attleborotaco

Member
So i had this deck without Liliana and Jace planeswalkers in it before at 60 cards. It worked pretty well in my Casual Multiplayer Games with my playgroup. My question here is that, my Girlfriend is making a Chandra/Nissa deck and i thought itd be fun to make a Liliana/Jace deck. I already had this deck, so i thought i could just add the planeswalkers in and they wouldnt hinder it too much, i just need to know what to cut to bring it down close to 60 cards. Any help is appreciated.

http://www.mtgvault.com/attleborotaco/decks/lilianajace/
 
N

noquarter

Member
Daedardus said:
I wasn't arguing before the Pro Tour, I thought Sigma was making a case to wait Eldrazi out for a couple of months instead of doing the bans in April.
Click to expand...
Ah, I thought he was saying that he prefers that nothing is banned preemptively, that they give the meta a chance to develop better banning, like what they have done.

Really hope they don't ban both, Temple and Eye. Eye allows for the most degenerate plays, so would rather see that go than Temple. Not sure it would still be a viable deck, but people would probably continue to play it with the hope it wins.
 
I

ironmang

Member
blindrocket said:
What cards do you have, and are you looking for anything specific? I have quite a bit and may have something that you actually need, or are you just trying to get equal value?



I may have a Chalice of the Void coming in a trade, so I'd just need two. Maybe. But otherwise, what are you looking for Wind?

As for anyone else, if you're wanting to start building Eldrazi I do have 4x Ancient Stirrings.
And for Standard I have a fully fleshed out 5C Abzan deck with a play set of Gideon, one of which is Foil. I also have two play sets of Tasigur if anyone still needs that new staple.
Click to expand...

How many bridges do you have? Looking to pick up 2-3. I have 2 Chalices and a Teeg for sure.
 
E

El Topo

Member
charlequin said:
Yes, but we needed a Pro Tour plus some events after it to be certain of that. Pre-emptive banning sucks and nothing else in Magic's history has ever come close to the scenario that required it for Memory Jar.
Click to expand...

How quickly was Skullclamp banned again? Been too long for me to remember. Or artifact lands for that matter, probably a better comparison.
 
C

charlequin

Banned
El Topo said:
How quickly was Skullclamp banned again? Been too long for me to remember. Or artifact lands for that matter, probably a better comparison.
Click to expand...

Skullclamp (from Darksteel) was banned in June, after Fifth Dawn came out. The artifact lands weren't banned until March 2005, after Betrayers of Kamigawa.
 
G

GoutPatrol

Forgotten in his cell
charlequin said:
Skullclamp (from Darksteel) was banned in June, after Fifth Dawn came out. The artifact lands weren't banned until March 2005, after Betrayers of Kamigawa.
Click to expand...

So Clamp was just in-and-out. I have no doubt in my mind Eye and probably Temple will hit the bin soon.
 
R

red13th

Member
mtggoldfish's article "Predicting Eternal Masters Mythics". There are some really weird arguments there (Sensei's Divining Top being a rare means it would be a chase rare so putting it at mythic "solves that problem" - ???) but it's a nice read.
His guesses:

Rishadan Port
Force of Will
Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Dack Fayden
Natural Order
Umezawa's Jitte
Sensei's Divining Top
Demonic Tutor
Land Tax
Past in Flames
Necropotence
Nahiri, the Lithomancer
Avenger of Zendikar
Worldgorger Dragon
Coercive Portal
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Attleborotaco said:
So i had this deck without Liliana and Jace planeswalkers in it before at 60 cards. It worked pretty well in my Casual Multiplayer Games with my playgroup. My question here is that, my Girlfriend is making a Chandra/Nissa deck and i thought itd be fun to make a Liliana/Jace deck. I already had this deck, so i thought i could just add the planeswalkers in and they wouldnt hinder it too much, i just need to know what to cut to bring it down close to 60 cards. Any help is appreciated.

http://www.mtgvault.com/attleborotaco/decks/lilianajace/
Click to expand...

I would cut Fog Banks first probably. Depending on how much you need to get rid of I also don't know if you need four copies of Extract from Darkness

Oh I see you added the Planeswalkers already. Hmm, I would skip Liliana of the Dark Realms honestly. Cut two Fog Banks, one copy of Extract from Darkness and one of the Sirens
 
E

El Topo

Member
charlequin said:
Skullclamp (from Darksteel) was banned in June, after Fifth Dawn came out. The artifact lands weren't banned until March 2005, after Betrayers of Kamigawa.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I vaguely recalled Skullclamp getting the hammer quickly, rightfully so, but I wasn't sure anymore about the artifact lands.
 
B

bigkrev

Member
Conspiracy: The Reign of Brago is announced, coming in August
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/announcing-conspiracy-2
Long May He Reign

Add deeper layers of gameplay to your next Magic draft and fight for King Brago—or plot his downfall. The Conspiracy: The Reign of Brago set builds on the revolutionary abilities introduced in the original Magic: The Gathering—Conspiracy set, with new cards that affect the draft itself and new Conspiracies that twist the rules against your foes and those who dare oppose Brago. Trade votes and spread your attacks to manipulate the game in your favor.

How will you defend the throne?

This set is designed for eight-player drafts followed by free-for-all games of three to five players each.
Click to expand...

jLJS3nAk6d.jpg
Click to expand...

Will be interesting to see if this set has some high value reprints like CON had (Stifle, Misdirection, Exploration)
 
U

ultron87

Member
All the summer sets!

It will be quite packed since we get Eternal Masters June 10th, Eldritch Moon July 16th (Prerelease), and Conspiracy August 26th.
 
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