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[charlequin]

Interesting. It would mean they could print a high-EV set and be willing to let it sell above MSRP since it fills the "thing we print to give back to the stores" slot. Conspiracy then fills the "supplemental draft set for the masses" slot.

Yep, it explains a lot. They've recently killed a bunch of products that had a high internal labor impact but poor sales impact (e.g. Clash Packs required custom packaging and alternate art.) FTV fits the same bill -- it's a giveaway to stores, but it's a huge amount of effort and has no other additional benefit.

If they're doing what it looks like and creating a "reprint set" slot and a "casual" slot, it accomplishes a few goals. The reprint set can be the retail store margin handout (more effectively than FTV, really); doing a reprint set every year means they can steadily put more copies of key cards out into the environment; finding slots for both types of sets means they don't have to pit their older-format tournament players against the super casual ones for support.

I don't see what the problem is.

The problem is that the way they handled MM2 made retailers unhappy, I'd say.

 

[G.ZZZ]

Punishing fire - grove is good enough to see play in legacy, a format with wasteland and way less focus on creature. You don't want that in modern. Jitte is borderline playable in legacy because it's good vs small weenie decks, but it's also a pretty slow answer to them, so basically it become a "good vs decks with many small creatures, low/permission removal and that don't win fast" which aren't many. Getting a 3 mana swing in tempo when you remove the equipped creatures is also pretty big in a format where turns are incredibly compressed like legacy. It would surely be played more in modern, but it's still a card that does little to nothing against many decks (tron, combo etc...). In block and standard it was incredibly stupid (much slower formats based on creatures) but it was the answer to itself so it didn't get banned.

 

[Santiako]

Punishing fire - grove is good enough to see play in legacy, a format with wasteland and way less focus on creature. You don't want that in modern. Jitte is borderline playable in legacy because it's good vs small weenie decks, but it's also a pretty slow answer to them, so basically it become a "good vs decks with many small creatures, low/permission removal and that don't win fast" which aren't many. Getting a 3 mana swing in tempo when you remove the equipped creatures is also pretty big in a format where turns are incredibly compressed like legacy. It would surely be played more in modern, but it's still a card that does little to nothing against many decks (tron, combo etc...). In block and standard it was incredibly stupid (much slower formats based on creatures) but it was the answer to itself so it didn't get banned.

Even against decks like Tron, Jitte is still 4 extra damage a turn and makes Wurmcoils easy to deal with.

 

[noquarter]

Even against decks like Tron, Jitte is still 4 extra damage a turn and makes Wurmcoils easy to deal with.

Also helps take out those pesky Spirits from Lingering Souls.

And life gain against Burn is nice.

Lots of good applications for Jitte. Really don't think it will ever be taken off the Ban List.

 

[shrapnelmagnet]

(more effectively than FTV, really)

I loved the idea of the FTV, but I don't really want foils, personally. It brought the product down in my eyes. Not that foils aren't sweet, but I'm not a person who foils out decks. I just want the cards that do the stuff

 

[blindrocket]

Punishing fire - grove is good enough to see play in legacy, a format with wasteland and way less focus on creature. You don't want that in modern. Jitte is borderline playable in legacy because it's good vs small weenie decks, but it's also a pretty slow answer to them, so basically it become a "good vs decks with many small creatures, low/permission removal and that don't win fast" which aren't many. Getting a 3 mana swing in tempo when you remove the equipped creatures is also pretty big in a format where turns are incredibly compressed like legacy. It would surely be played more in modern, but it's still a card that does little to nothing against many decks (tron, combo etc...). In block and standard it was incredibly stupid (much slower formats based on creatures) but it was the answer to itself so it didn't get banned.

Just reprint Grove of the Burnwillows!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And I'll be happy. lol

 

[blindrocket]

I loved the idea of the FTV, but I don't really want foils, personally. It brought the product down in my eyes. Not that foils aren't sweet, but I'm not a person who foils out decks. I just want the cards that do the stuff

I liked the idea too, but only at MSRP. If stores jack the price up to whatever the cards go for anyway, I don't see the point, really. Unless, as you point out, people want the shiny.

 

[shrapnelmagnet]

I liked the idea too, but only at MSRP. If stores jack the price up to whatever the cards go for anyway, I don't see the point, really. Unless, as you point out, people want the shiny.

Yeah, for sure. I really wanted to buy that one FTV with Rolling Earthquake but when I asked about it at a local store, the price they had them for was a tad bit silly. I just opted to keep my eye on Rolling Earthquake singles - which was the correct move, anyway, but still.

 

[Daedardus]

I guess there are trade laws that won't let you prevent stores from selling above MSRP?

 

[Firemind]

please

no more mythic playable dragons and u/r planeswalkers in conspiracy 2

 

[Ashodin]

Conspiracy aww yiss

I'm eager to see what new commander stuff is in there.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I guess there are trade laws that won't let you prevent stores from selling above MSRP?

that's not how capitalism works

Yep, it explains a lot. They've recently killed a bunch of products that had a high internal labor impact but poor sales impact (e.g. Clash Packs required custom packaging and alternate art.) FTV fits the same bill -- it's a giveaway to stores, but it's a huge amount of effort and has no other additional benefit.

If they're doing what it looks like and creating a "reprint set" slot and a "casual" slot, it accomplishes a few goals. The reprint set can be the retail store margin handout (more effectively than FTV, really); doing a reprint set every year means they can steadily put more copies of key cards out into the environment; finding slots for both types of sets means they don't have to pit their older-format tournament players against the super casual ones for support.



The problem is that the way they handled MM2 made retailers unhappy, I'd say.

All of the retailers in my area sold all of their product. I'm sure it made them unhappy it wasn't a $3.99 product they could sell for $15, but such is life. I don't know that its an exaggeration to say most of the retailers that even had an allocation of MM2 would go out of business if they lost their WPN status.

 

[kirblar]

Welp. No E. Bans. https://twitter.com/mtgaaron/status/701890260398010368

 

[The Technomancer]

Massdrop ran a really good deal on foreign OGW boosters a few weeks back, mine arrived today. 3x Chinese, 3x Japanese, 2x Korean, and 1x French and Russian

Highlights are a foil Korean Ayli, a French Mirrorpool, a Japanese Hissing Quagmire, and a Chinese Kozilek's Return

Plus a bunch of cool tokens and lands of course

I'm pretty happy for $25

 

[Angry Grimace]

Welp. No E. Bans. https://twitter.com/mtgaaron/status/701890260398010368

Just don't play Modern for like 2 months I guess. It's not nearly as egregious as that one time Aaron was like "btw we're banning everything in Ravager Affinity like a year too late and also wait another month =V"

 

[Firemind]

simplified chinese

meh

 

[Ashodin]

"We're selling too much Ogw to care"

 

[Angry Grimace]

I don't think Modern is selling packs of OGW at all. The actual Standard legal components of Modern Eldrazi are like what, $75?

 

[Joe Molotov]

I don't think Modern is selling packs of OGW at all. The actual Standard legal components of Modern Eldrazi are like what, $75?

What are Eldrazi Skyspawners up to now?

 

[charlequin]

I guess there are trade laws that won't let you prevent stores from selling above MSRP?

That is broadly correct, though also, the entire point of FTV is for stores to mark up and get semi-free money so WotC wouldn't do that even if they could.

Welp. No E. Bans. https://twitter.com/mtgaaron/status/701890260398010368

As should have been obvious to anyone who's paid attention to their banning policy, really.

All of the retailers in my area sold all of their product. I'm sure it made them unhappy it wasn't a $3.99 product they could sell for $15, but such is life. I don't know that its an exaggeration to say most of the retailers that even had an allocation of MM2 would go out of business if they lost their WPN status.

I don't really get your point. I mean, you wouldn't disagree that it rotted on the shelves in a lot of places, right? I'm not suggesting anyone was so POed that they burned their WPN card in a rage or anything, but I don't think saying it was suboptimal and they'd want to avoid repeating it is particularly wild.

What are Eldrazi Skyspawners up to now?

According to my AutocardAnywhere hover, fifteen cents?

 

[Santiako]

Welp. No E. Bans. https://twitter.com/mtgaaron/status/701890260398010368

I don't think anyone expected emergency bans. If they don't ban anything in April though, then you know WotC don't give a fuck and the Eldrazi winter will become the Eldrazi year.

 

[keeblerdrow]

Massdrop ran a really good deal on foreign OGW boosters a few weeks back, mine arrived today. 3x Chinese, 3x Japanese, 2x Korean, and 1x French and Russian

Highlights are a foil Korean Ayli, a French Mirrorpool, a Japanese Hissing Quagmire, and a Chinese Kozilek's Return


Plus a bunch of cool tokens and lands of course



I'm pretty happy for $25

The only time I've ever wanted a card in foreign languages has been this set. I so badly want a Thought-Knot Seet playset that's one each in Chinese, Korean, Japanese, and Russian. So when you play the mind-fucking Eldrazi, it's each in a different not-English alphabet. Seems like a great flavor thing to reveal as you're playing against someone and they keep coming onto the board different but the same as the last one.

 

[The Technomancer]

The only time I've ever wanted a card in foreign languages has been this set. I so badly want a Thought-Knot Seet playset that's one each in Chinese, Korean, Japanese, and Russian. So when you play the mind-fucking Eldrazi, it's each in a different not-English alphabet. Seems like a great flavor thing to reveal as you're playing against someone and they keep coming onto the board different but the same as the last one.

haha

I've been pretty lucky with OGW so far. The only product I've bought was this and the prerelease pack, and even though I didn't get any expeditions my prerelease foil was a Thought-Knot, and Kozilek's Return and Mirrorpool are both pretty sweet

 

[red13th]

ooh having Eternal Masters be the new FTV would be amazing, I despise foils so it would be a blessing to my cube. I'd have almost everything I want if FTVs were non-foil, FTV:20 is basically FTV:cool old cards to your new-frame cube (seriously, the first 10 are all cubable or downright staples), Annihilation too (Armageddon, Burning of Xinye, Smokestack, Upheaval, Rolling Earthquake, Living Death with cool art... so many goodies!).
Make it happen wotc!

 

[An-Det]

Neat, I didn't expect to see another Conspiracy this year, but it definitely makes sense the way you all have described their potential strategy. Definitely curious to see what (if any) reprints are in it.

Welp. No E. Bans. https://twitter.com/mtgaaron/status/701890260398010368

Really glad he got out there and said that. Everyone bitching on Twitter about emergency bans has been super fucking annoying.

 

[Angry Grimace]

That is broadly correct, though also, the entire point of FTV is for stores to mark up and get semi-free money so WotC wouldn't do that even if they could.



As should have been obvious to anyone who's paid attention to their banning policy, really.



I don't really get your point. I mean, you wouldn't disagree that it rotted on the shelves in a lot of places, right? I'm not suggesting anyone was so POed that they burned their WPN card in a rage or anything, but I don't think saying it was suboptimal and they'd want to avoid repeating it is particularly wild.



According to my AutocardAnywhere hover, fifteen cents?

I think it is wild to begin with because the argument that it was somehow suboptimal for WOTC isn't actually grounded in anything other how it sold in comparison to MM1, which is more optimal for stores, and not WOTC - WOTC sells all of the product to the retailers anyways, and in this case, for more money. Hell, I'm pretty confident that WOTC they sold all of the product they printed in MM2015 (e.g. more than MM1 and a higher box price) and stores would probably buy all of the product again if they put the same quality of product out with the same print run. I think you guys are just making random guesses about how mad Store X was about it.

I just think its pretty hyperbolic to suggest MM2015 was a failure in any real way other than "I didn't like the draft environment as much as MM1." Stores didn't just lose money if they were or are still sitting on some amount of product (and frankly, I think you guys are exaggerating the amount of product still available in the average store). I think players make very generous assumptions about these random "gifts to stores" work. If a Level 3 WPN store gets 6 copies of FTV and they profit ~$40 off of the MSRP I find it hard to believe that makes that LGS more money than the number of boxes and events for MM2015 that got set up. All of the stores in my area blew through all of the product in 2 weekends that were filled up with random draft pods, sealed pods and box sales. I'm not saying that happened everywhere, but I am saying that I am skeptical that there's many stores that lost money on MM2015.

 

[charlequin]

I think you're arguing with something I'm not saying, at least. When I say they made a mistake I don't mean "zomg an all-time disaster," I literally just mean they did something suboptimal.

Today you can buy essentially arbitrary amounts of MM2015 on Ebay below MSRP, which is as good a proxy as we're gonna meaningfully get of its market impact -- it didn't justify its price and still has a good amount of product floating around despite a limited launch. That's not a thing stores are generally gonna be happy with. If they kept printing reprint sets but they were all stacked like MM2 it'd turn into an actual problem for WotC pretty quickly.

 

[Ashodin]

My store is sitting on ten boxes of mm2015 sooo

 

[Angry Grimace]

I think you're arguing with something I'm not saying, at least. When I say they made a mistake I don't mean "zomg an all-time disaster," I literally just mean they did something suboptimal.

Today you can buy essentially arbitrary amounts of MM2015 on Ebay below MSRP, which is as good a proxy as we're gonna meaningfully get of its market impact -- it didn't justify its price and still has a good amount of product floating around despite a limited launch. That's not a thing stores are generally gonna be happy with. If they kept printing reprint sets but they were all stacked like MM2 it'd turn into an actual problem for WotC pretty quickly.

I just don't buy that it's suboptimal without evidence to the effect that someone lost out way more than they should have. I imagine it was more optimal for the players than MM1 was. MM1 had better cards at uncommon, sure, but it typically cost more and you couldn't actually get it. Having better cards is all well and good but if you can't get it and it costs $20 a pack, why does that matter? The EV from having Spell Snare in the pack isn't as relevant as it sounds when its far cheaper to go buy copies of Spell Snare for less money in general.

My store is sitting on ten boxes of mm2015 sooo

Sure, and your store probably bought 15 cases since the initial order was like 12, and most stores were given (and accepted) the option to buy lots more. Erring on the side of supply exceeding demand very slightly isn't that big of deal and it would be a lot worse for the players if it was like MM1.

 

[Jhriad]

Sure, and your store probably bought 15 cases since the initial order was like 12, and most stores were given (and accepted) the option to buy lots more. Erring on the side of supply exceeding demand very slightly isn't that big of deal and it would be a lot worse for the players if it was like MM1.

Pretty much every major online retailer has had sales on MM2015 over the past several months. Most of them offering somewhere around 20% off MSRP. It's not nearly as uncommon as you're making it out to be. I've gone through a few LGS' around here that were offering packs under MSRP. Hell, I could have bought a box for $180 not that long ago. The packaging has actually put a damper on the retail value around here since in addition to potentially damaging the cards during packaging it doesn't keep out the humidity.

 

[red13th]

Ugh the packaging! It was terrible! lol MM15 was so bad. Every store I've been to here still has it in stock too.

 

[bigkrev]

You could get boxes for under MSRP (but not individual packs) around here for a while, but they seem to have dried up at this point. Our largest LGS only has 2 boxes left.

 

[charlequin]

Holy hell the people on twitter are whiny as fuck. The responses to Forsythe's tweets are all just walls of people throwing huge baby fits about them not making emergency bans.

 

[bigkrev]

Holy hell the people on twitter are whiny as fuck. The responses to Forsythe's tweets are all just walls of people throwing huge baby fits about them not making emergency bans.

It's been so long since the last one that people complaining legit may not have been alive for it. Eldrazi in Modern doesn't have a chance at killing MTG like Memory Jar could have.

 

[charlequin]

It's been so long since the last one that people complaining legit may not have been alive for it. Eldrazi in Modern doesn't have a chance at killing MTG like Memory Jar could have.

Shit, you're right. Those kids can't vote yet, but they're close.

It is really funny to me the petulant things people are tweeting. "Oh yeah?!?!!! Well what about if... some people... didn't play for two months... how would you like that?!?!?!!" Okay bud, deep breaths.

 

[Matriox]

Ugh the packaging! It was terrible! lol MM15 was so bad. Every store I've been to here still has it in stock too.

I always laughed because they reminded me of boxes of crayons you give kids at a restaurant.

 

[Giant Panda]

It's been so long since the last one that people complaining legit may not have been alive for it. Eldrazi in Modern doesn't have a chance at killing MTG like Memory Jar could have.

Does memory jar see any play in vintage?

 

[Angry Grimace]

Pretty much every major online retailer has had sales on MM2015 over the past several months. Most of them offering somewhere around 20% off MSRP. It's not nearly as uncommon as you're making it out to be. I've gone through a few LGS' around here that were offering packs under MSRP. Hell, I could have bought a box for $180 not that long ago. The packaging has actually put a damper on the retail value around here since in addition to potentially damaging the cards during packaging it doesn't keep out the humidity.

Getting rid of inventory isn't some crazy thing.

Does memory jar see any play in vintage?

Occasionally in Vintage Storm. But basically no.

 

[MjFrancis]

So some quick input on a fishy sale, if anyone so chooses. A buyer with zero feedback, account opened today, just bought a playset I had for $20 and left me this note with the purchase:

"Note to seller
Hi, [eBayaccountname], I just wanted to make sure with you that these are absolutely indeed (4x) foil [cards I sold] in Mint Condition. I've had some bad run-ins with Magic sellers before and am prepared to give you an exceptional feedback rating should you deliver on the actual cards and I appraise them as being authentic. This is a rare card to find and have been looking at them to complete my deck for a while. Thank you!"

I sent a lengthy reply, but it struck me as odd that they are concerned about the authenticity of cheap cards that aren't counterfeited so far as I know, and that they referred to the playset as a single "card" in the second to last sentence. Also worrying is that I never once described them as mint in the listing. Seems like I'm being set up to be scammed, but as a seller I'm sure I can get negative feedback for cancelling on them.

Thoughts?

 

[charlequin]

I sent a lengthy reply, but it struck me as odd that they are concerned about the authenticity of cheap cards that aren't counterfeited so far as I know, and that they referred to the playset as a single "card" in the second to last sentence. Also worrying is that I never once described them as mint in the listing. Seems like I'm being set up to be scammed, but as a seller I'm sure I can get negative feedback for cancelling on them.

Thoughts?

Spoiler

That message is hella sketchy and you are probably being scammed.

 

[Xis]

So some quick input on a fishy sale, if anyone so chooses. A buyer with zero feedback, account opened today, just bought a playset I had for $20 and left me this note with the purchase:

"Note to seller
Hi, [eBayaccountname], I just wanted to make sure with you that these are absolutely indeed (4x) foil [cards I sold] in Mint Condition. I've had some bad run-ins with Magic sellers before and am prepared to give you an exceptional feedback rating should you deliver on the actual cards and I appraise them as being authentic. This is a rare card to find and have been looking at them to complete my deck for a while. Thank you!"

I sent a lengthy reply, but it struck me as odd that they are concerned about the authenticity of cheap cards that aren't counterfeited so far as I know, and that they referred to the playset as a single "card" in the second to last sentence. Also worrying is that I never once described them as mint in the listing. Seems like I'm being set up to be scammed, but as a seller I'm sure I can get negative feedback for cancelling on them.

Thoughts?

I'm guessing he copy/pasted from a stock email he sends to everyone he buys cards from.

 

[Santiako]

So some quick input on a fishy sale, if anyone so chooses. A buyer with zero feedback, account opened today, just bought a playset I had for $20 and left me this note with the purchase:

"Note to seller
Hi, [eBayaccountname], I just wanted to make sure with you that these are absolutely indeed (4x) foil [cards I sold] in Mint Condition. I've had some bad run-ins with Magic sellers before and am prepared to give you an exceptional feedback rating should you deliver on the actual cards and I appraise them as being authentic. This is a rare card to find and have been looking at them to complete my deck for a while. Thank you!"

I sent a lengthy reply, but it struck me as odd that they are concerned about the authenticity of cheap cards that aren't counterfeited so far as I know, and that they referred to the playset as a single "card" in the second to last sentence. Also worrying is that I never once described them as mint in the listing. Seems like I'm being set up to be scammed, but as a seller I'm sure I can get negative feedback for cancelling on them.

Thoughts?

It reads like he will "appraise·" them as fake and ask for a refund while keeping the cards.

 

[noquarter]

The only time I've ever wanted a card in foreign languages has been this set. I so badly want a Thought-Knot Seet playset that's one each in Chinese, Korean, Japanese, and Russian. So when you play the mind-fucking Eldrazi, it's each in a different not-English alphabet. Seems like a great flavor thing to reveal as you're playing against someone and they keep coming onto the board different but the same as the last one.

Not even the sweet Elesh Norn judge foil?

I would like to get Thought Knots in foreign foils, but I don't think my wallet wants me to.

 

[bigkrev]

So some quick input on a fishy sale, if anyone so chooses. A buyer with zero feedback, account opened today, just bought a playset I had for $20 and left me this note with the purchase:

"Note to seller
Hi, [eBayaccountname], I just wanted to make sure with you that these are absolutely indeed (4x) foil [cards I sold] in Mint Condition. I've had some bad run-ins with Magic sellers before and am prepared to give you an exceptional feedback rating should you deliver on the actual cards and I appraise them as being authentic. This is a rare card to find and have been looking at them to complete my deck for a while. Thank you!"

I sent a lengthy reply, but it struck me as odd that they are concerned about the authenticity of cheap cards that aren't counterfeited so far as I know, and that they referred to the playset as a single "card" in the second to last sentence. Also worrying is that I never once described them as mint in the listing. Seems like I'm being set up to be scammed, but as a seller I'm sure I can get negative feedback for cancelling on them.

Thoughts?

For the love of God, don't ship the cards. Never deal with someone who has zero feedback ever. You will loose your cards and never get paid.

 

[Jhriad]

Holy hell the people on twitter are whiny as fuck. The responses to Forsythe's tweets are all just walls of people throwing huge baby fits about them not making emergency bans.

If a Modern GP like GP Detroit were happening in my area I'd probably be a little salty. Looking forward to my first GP this weekend. Just doing side events but I'm sure it'll be fun.

 

[MjFrancis]

Thanks for the replies, hopefully this works out without me getting shafted one way or another. I never sell anything particularly valuable so I did not suppose I'd run into this situation.

 

[keeblerdrow]

If a Modern GP like GP Detroit were happening in my area I'd probably be a little salty. Looking forward to my first GP this weekend. Just doing side events but I'm sure it'll be fun.

GP Detroit last August was my first GP. It was team sealed. I was hoping my next GP would be a constructed one. But not like this. Not this.

 

[Haines]

Is 2 headed giant 4 packs per person? Im having a hard time googling the Answer.

I believe my buddy thought it was 6 and 4 might make him want to back out. 4 doesnt seem right in sealed.

Edit. Lil more searching and it does look like 8 total is standard. I guess too many cards might make the format a lil crazy

 

[ultron87]

Is 2 headed giant 4 packs per person? Im having a hard time googling the Answer.

I believe my buddy thought it was 6 and 4 might make him want to back out. 4 doesnt seem right in sealed.

Sealed you mean? It is traditionally 8 packs to the whole team that you build two decks from. For prerelease they upped it to 12 packs because you couldn't really break up the prerelease boxes.

 

[Haines]

Sealed you mean? It is traditionally 8 packs to the whole team that you build two decks from. For prerelease they upped it to 12 packs because you couldn't really break up the prerelease boxes.

Kk, thanks