The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Oh nice
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Magic: the Gathering - Oath o/t Gatewatch |OT| Look again, the mana is now diamonds!
- Thread starter SigmasonicX
- Start date
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My guess is that any card meant for EDH or casual will be in Conspiracy, while all the constructed cards will be in Eternal Masters (with a mythic slot or 2 devoted to constructed uplayables but limited superstars).
charlequin
Banned
i am octopustrodamus
IN YOUR FACE HYPOTHETICAL DISBELIEVERS
EMA doesn't affect the contents of any format and doesn't have big GPs associated with it this year, so it shouldn't be too bad. It's gonna be like two months after that for Lock and then maybe one more to C16 so I think the release calendar is just gonna be crowded all the time (except Xmas) now.
GoutPatrol
Forgotten in his cell
LONG LIVE BRAGO.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
My group text this morning:
-Conspiracy 2 Announced
-Conspiracy 2: Brago Boogaloo
-Conspiracy 2: More Conspiracy
-Conspiracy 2: Conspiracier
-Conspiracy 2: Conspire Harder (Not the Shadowmoor Mechanic)
-Conspiracy 2 Announced
-Conspiracy 2: Brago Boogaloo
-Conspiracy 2: More Conspiracy
-Conspiracy 2: Conspiracier
-Conspiracy 2: Conspire Harder (Not the Shadowmoor Mechanic)
ThLunarian
Member
Oh wow. The thing to remember about this is that cards in Eldritch Moon, Eternal Masters, and Conspiracy will all be rarer than normal because each is going to be drafted much less than it normally would. Any chase cards in any of these sets should appreciate higher than average as years pass.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
All of his guesses were based on the assumption WOTC very closely aligns pack EV with secondary market values and therefore will dump garbage at Mythic in order to make sure they can dump expensive shit at rare which sounds highly implausible.
Like his argument for Avenger of Zendikar is literally "Craterhoof Behemoth takes up too much reprint equity" which is fucking dumb as shit and makes no sense. They are not going to put Avenger of Zendikar at Mythic just to avoid adding 30 cents of EV to a pack.
blindrocket
Member
Awesome. Better than another Unglued!
I disagree. Eldrich Moon will be the FNM and Grand Prix format, Conspiracy is strictly a casual thing (I don't think it's even possible to run an FNM of it because it's not sanctioned?), and Eternal Masters is a limited release that most stores will probably run one event of because that is all the product they get.
Agreed, he also ignores the P3K problem of having different printings of the same card be worth $100 and $5.
EDIT: Also, Aaron Forsythe said the focus will be on pre-modern Magic, I don't think they'd put stuff like Top and Avenger when there's so few Mythic slots.
charlequin
Banned
Yeah, people have taken this reprint equity idea and run with it to weird places. WotC is not going to carefully micromanage the EV of packs in a set like this. Devaluation actually doesn't start to be a problem for them perception-wise until cards start losing more than 30% or so in one shot, IMO.
Well, EDM is a summer Standard set, which historically has been a miserable seller (Coldsnap and Eventide are some of the worst-performing small sets ever, and MXX Core Sets never did well compared to expansions); the idea is that the two-block paradigm will combat that, but it's yet to be seen how much it'll actually help.
EMA is gonna get drafted exactly as much as they put out supply no matter what, and it'll generally only be one or two weeks at any given store so it won't impact SOI much. EDM shouldn't take a hit from CS2 since most places won't replace expansion drafting with multiplayer wackyshack drafting.
The whole purpose of a reprint set is that they devaluate the value of the cards. Of course, it sucks for those who have 'invested' in cards, but it's all the better for the people who want to jump in and actually play the cards. The value slightly increases after that because the demand creeps up, but I'm getting tired of all those people complaining their cards will be worth less. I'm not saying all cards should be cheap to get, and I acknowledge the importance of trading value for a TCG, but prices should be reasonable so that the game can actually be played. The Reserved List will actually kill Legacy and Vintage because it's already almost impossible to buy key cards, and it will only worsen in the coming years.
SigmasonicX
Member
Wow, I didn't expect Conspiracy 2 to come out the same year as Eternal Masters. I'm a bit disappointed that it will be on the same world as the first Conspiracy, but whatever.
I suppose I should ask this now. Previously, we established that we wouldn't move these Magic discussion topics back to OT for releases like Commander, but what about Conspiracy, which should have a fair number of new cards? I expect we'll be stuck in Community during its previews, but I want to confirm it.
MaRo has previously mentioned that an alternate solution could have been to make the conspiracy cards silver-bordered. Maybe they'll do that this time.
I suppose I should ask this now. Previously, we established that we wouldn't move these Magic discussion topics back to OT for releases like Commander, but what about Conspiracy, which should have a fair number of new cards? I expect we'll be stuck in Community during its previews, but I want to confirm it.
MaRo has previously mentioned that an alternate solution could have been to make the conspiracy cards silver-bordered. Maybe they'll do that this time.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I think Conspiracy 2 is them trying to figure out how to replace a lot of the fixed deck casual stuff with something that gets people to open boosters.
charlequin
Banned
Why? It'd be tough to cook up another setting that makes sense for the weirdly specific gameplay approach of these sets, I think.
Or they could just write the rule as "Conspiracy cards are banned," or they could even just let them all be technically legal but write the rules so that they do nothing in any format where your deck wasn't drafted (just like Paliano, etc.)
Yeah I thought this after the first go-round and this really just confirms it. The design effort isn't that much bigger (if any) for a set like this but the sales upside is a lot bigger. Commander will stay decks for a variety of reasons but the booster set format makes more sense for other casual format stuff. (They still need to figure out a way to include oversized cards in a booster product though.)
EDIT: Aside from the problems with SO's method of counting out value for his EMA predictions, this:
is wrongo bongo.
ThLunarian
Member
Speaking of Jitte, I think that might be worth taking off the Modern banned list to see if it shakes things up at all. Seems pretty innocuous compared to some of the other stuff on there. It wasn't even banned in Kamigawa Block.
I could be wrong though. It's been banned since the format's inception so it's hard to tell.
I could be wrong though. It's been banned since the format's inception so it's hard to tell.
divisionbyzorro
Member
There's no world in which Jitte comes off. That card is absurdly oppressive.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Affinity playing Jitte kappa.
A Serious Man
Member
Jitte is one of those cards that feels like it wasn't actually playtested. It only takes one game to realize how dumb that card is.
Would it even play it in the main? Worrying about equipping for 2 mana, attacking, and then finally doing something with it off after my creature hits for 1 damage doesn't seem like where I want to be. Great out of the sideboard though. I may be under appreciating the flexibility.
ThLunarian
Member
I guess you're right. I wonder why they never banned it in Kamigawa block or in Standard though.
I think because back then you could play Jitte yourself and kill the opposing Jittes, so everyone had an answer to Jitte in Jitte itself. I love Jitte! It's my favourite card.
A Serious Man
Member
I think the old Legend rule saved it.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Unbanning Jitte is the least likely thing I can imagine.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Modern Banned List:
Probably safe for unbanning in a post Splinter Twin world
Ancestral Vision
Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Ponder OR Preordain
Stoneforge Mystic
Dangerous, but would be sweet if unbanned
Dark Depths
Dread Return
Punishing Fire
Sword of the Meek
Still too soon
Bloodbraid Elf
Seething Song
Splinter Twin
Makes existing strategies too good
Artifact Lands
Blazing Shoal
Cloudpost
Deathrite Shaman
Glimpse of Nature
Green Sun's Zenith
High-variance Turn 4 Rule breaks
Chrome Mox
Rite of Flame
(Simian Spirit Guide needs to go here)
lolwut
Birthing Pod
Dig Through Time
Hypergenesis
Mental Misstep
Second Sunrise
Sensei's Divining Top
Skullclamp
Summer Bloom
Treasure Cruise
Umezawa's Jitte
(Eye of Ugin and Eldrazi Temple need to go here)
Probably safe for unbanning in a post Splinter Twin world
Ancestral Vision
Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Ponder OR Preordain
Stoneforge Mystic
Dangerous, but would be sweet if unbanned
Dark Depths
Dread Return
Punishing Fire
Sword of the Meek
Still too soon
Bloodbraid Elf
Seething Song
Splinter Twin
Makes existing strategies too good
Artifact Lands
Blazing Shoal
Cloudpost
Deathrite Shaman
Glimpse of Nature
Green Sun's Zenith
High-variance Turn 4 Rule breaks
Chrome Mox
Rite of Flame
(Simian Spirit Guide needs to go here)
lolwut
Birthing Pod
Dig Through Time
Hypergenesis
Mental Misstep
Second Sunrise
Sensei's Divining Top
Skullclamp
Summer Bloom
Treasure Cruise
Umezawa's Jitte
(Eye of Ugin and Eldrazi Temple need to go here)
ThLunarian
Member
Isn't Punishing Fire just about as oppressive as Jitte? Although I guess it's restricted to red decks, which might help it be slightly more reasonable.
I feel like Jace the Mind Sculptor is also on a comparable level of oppression, just in a different way.
Also, Bloodbraid Elf seems fine to me. The real problem in Jund was Deathrite Shaman.
I feel like Jace the Mind Sculptor is also on a comparable level of oppression, just in a different way.
Also, Bloodbraid Elf seems fine to me. The real problem in Jund was Deathrite Shaman.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Jitte is so hilarious when you read it and realize that its as good as you think it is. Good lord that card is ridiculous
divisionbyzorro
Member
I'm super iffy on Punishing Fire. It feels like the decks that it supposedly hoses are fast enough to be able to prevent it from "going off" (i.e., if you're recurring Punishing Fire, you're probably winning that game already). On the other hand, I don't want red to be the de-facto best partner to the GB shell (which is also why I'm not a huge fan of unbanning Bloodbraid Elf).
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Ponder and Preordain are never getting unbanned, especially not with Jace. Punishing Fire is oppressive, also.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
okay fess up which one of you is this
divisionbyzorro
Member
I certainly would never expect all of these to be unbanned all at once. The decks that were previously too dangerous to wield Ponder and Preordain are now all dead - obviously we need to see how the post-Eldrazi world shakes out, but if the predictions hold and blue decks don't have the tools they need to compete anymore, giving them a bit more consistency in the form of something like Preordain might not be a bad idea. That being said, assuming you accompany the unban with a reprint, it might just make more sense to unban Jace if you really wanted to make a splash.
I have Punshing Fire in the "dangerous" category for a reason. Everything in that block is sketchy.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Interesting. It would mean they could print a high-EV set and be willing to let it sell above MSRP since it fills the "thing we print to give back to the stores" slot. Conspiracy then fills the "supplemental draft set for the masses" slot.
MM2 still rotting on store shelves is likely causing an interesting debate internally.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I don't see what the problem is. Even at MM2's print run it certainly did not kill off demand for Modern or tank anything in Modern's price.
blindrocket
Member
They filled it with absolute crap so it's good they change things up as a result.
They didn't want MM2's boosters selling above MSRP.
This led to MM2 being very underwhelming.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I think your aversion to MM2 isn't universal. Most people I know liked it well enough. It wasn't as value packed as MM1, but c'est la vie. At least it sold for MSRP.
Joe Molotov
Member
okay fess up which one of you is this
Terra Stomper scared the shit out of me.
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