Etrian Oddity
Member
B/W Allies Equipment is really fun in standard. I've outraced RDW and weathered out Green Ramp and U/B Control.
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Magic: the Gathering - Oath o/t Gatewatch |OT| Look again, the mana is now diamonds!
- Thread starter SigmasonicX
- Start date
- Status
charlequin
Banned
Some info about what's going on with this year's supplemental products from blogatog:
and
and
nexusgames asked: Hey MarkWith the announcement of Conspiracy 2 that means we're getting three supplementals this year; Con2, Eternal Masters and Commander - is this the norm for the future?
Our attitude towards supplemental products is a little different than normal expansions. We like to have the freedom to experiment and try different things. This year we’re experimenting with doing three different supplemental sets (Eternal Masters, Conspiracy 2, and Commander decks) each with their own audience. The player reaction to these sets will help inform us on what type of experiments we’ll want to try in the future.
Got a list?
blindrocket
Member
Perfect.
I've got:
2 Chalice (mirr)
1 Teeg
4 Knights (conflux)
1 Foil GSZ (pack)
from your list. Definitely interested in the Bridges and would even it out with filler no problem.
I apologize for the picture quality, I had really poor lighting. They are in matte sleeves.
Seems really weird to be doing all of your experimenting in one year. The supplemental sets actually would have made more sense in the older way with the Core set being in the summer and having to draft sets around it, since it was usually an unpopular set.
I know that Eternal Masters isn't the same exact audience as normal expansion sets, but there is still only so much money that people will spend on Magic and now they have four different ways they are pulling it in a few month period.
Etrian Oddity
Member
The idea is to combo Captain's Claws and Kalastria Healer early. Cliffhaven Vampire can really sap their life away if you manage to get it down. x1 Drana is because it's a budget list.
This is still very much a work in progress. I'm probably going to remove Sorin and Moonglove (although it's great for a surprise). Hero of Goma Fada is probably gonna get axed for something as I've yet to even cast the thing... though I don't know what I'd replace it with. Maybe I'll put Read the Bones back in, that had its uses.
The deck is neat. It's interesting because unlike most White Weenie or aggro decks, it has natural value that prevents itself from sputtering out once midrange or control make it past the initial onslaught. Ugin hurts you, but that's what Utter End and Path are for. Shambling Vent is also a great tool of attrition since artifact hate is so rare right now. Just slap the Captain's Claws on it and swing for a little extra life too
It's not gonna win the pro tour, but goddamn it's a fun and spunky little deck.
This is interesting to me. I wonder what kind of data they're looking for exactly, and depending on what they get, what meets the chopping block next year.
blindrocket
Member
This is interesting to me. I wonder what kind of data they're looking for exactly, and depending on what they get, what meets the chopping block next year.
Guys I'm glad y'all are trading and stuff, it's great that we're a tightly-knit community. But could you maybe move it to PMs pls?
If you'd prefer.
Hopefully it spurs some other trading action on here though.
If you'd prefer.
Hopefully it spurs some other trading action on here though.
I'm not a mod, just a friendly request. I trade on here a couple of times a year and always try to move to PM as quickly as possible. Also be sure to leave good feedback for each other in the buy/sell/trade thread
charlequin
Banned
I'm not sure what you mean "all." They do two of these things a year anyway. The only difference is now they're doing all three. It's one step different from normal.
I think the idea is that all of these are things people spend less total money on than normal expansions (Commander and Conspiracy because they're just supporting casual formats instead of hardcore deck-building, and Masters because there's a very limited supply) and they're largely targeted differently -- there are some people who really want to get both EMA and CP2, but for the most part the kitchen-table draft crowd and the hardcore tournament players are pretty distinct groups.
I think the idea is to prove that they can support this many products in a year, and they'll probably keep doing it unless something tanks pretty hard.
The change to the block structure is this year as well. Would think one of those tested each year, and since they just changed the block structure they would see if it panned out better for Eldritch Moon. I guess it isn't an experiment, but there is a lot going on this year that is different than pretty much any other year ever. Lots of product.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
What's the best way to sell your entire collection? Just throw everything valuable in a binder and take it to the LGS? Or what - is there some other service I can use? Liquidating a paper collection seems a lot more daunting than a online one.
You bailing on the game? I hope not -- These threads wouldn't be the same without you.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I'm haven't found myself deriving any fun out of playing the actual game, but it still costs a fucking shitload of money to play. I only enjoy the game in a theoretical sense because the game has a bunch of inherent design flaws that will never be corrected, e.g. 30% of games not being actual games because someone didn't get any land or the mulligan rule being laughable garbage even with magic scry shit in place because going down cards is an absurdly harsh penalty.
Like, I like the concept of the game, I just instantly get pissed off whenever I play it and I don't like spending money to be pissed off.
Like, I like the concept of the game, I just instantly get pissed off whenever I play it and I don't like spending money to be pissed off.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
but you can get screwed in edh too.
I'm just glad I started making some money of the cards instead of just letting them rot while investing more money
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Except when people start playing to lose, makes me salty.
Fuck nekusar.
Fuck nekusar.
How organized is your collection? If you have everything sorted and know where all your value is, I strongly recommend listing everything expensive on TCGPlayer or eBay first. If you don't have time for that, buylist it.
If you're in a major city, throw the remaining bulk on craigslist for a few weeks and you'll probably get a bite.
You gonna keep playing online, or just done with Magic entirely?
ThLunarian
Member
First, figure out a price that you'd like to get for the entire collection all at once.
If you're on Facebook, look for the local Magic: The Gathering group, join it, and say you're looking to sell an entire collection. If it's a really big collection, just list the highlights. Say you'd like to get 5-10% above the price that you determined above. Negotiate from there.
You will likely get people asking if they can buy individual pieces. Whether you want to entertain individual offers is up to you.
Ebay and Craigslist can also work. But I've seen lots of people do this successfully on my own local MTG Facebook group.
I hear ya, I've considered selling mine off several times in the past for different reasons. I've been steadily sliding into EDH/Casual territory over the past year or so and a lot of the staples I have in Legacy and Modern just aren't seeing play. Just don't sell out without being really sure, you wouldn't want to have to buy back in haha
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
My issue is that my playgroup is competitive enough that I can't make wacky decks anymore and not enough to make proper modern decks.
So instead of improving my casual decks or even maintaining them. Which is a pain with every new set, I'm starting to convert them into EDH decks.
Need to make a Kruphix landfall deck, a Khemba equipment deck, a Tazri ally deck, a Scion/Intet/Xenagos dragon deck and an Ayli aristocrat deck.
Still contemplating what to do with Zur,should I be running countermagic?
So instead of improving my casual decks or even maintaining them. Which is a pain with every new set, I'm starting to convert them into EDH decks.
Need to make a Kruphix landfall deck, a Khemba equipment deck, a Tazri ally deck, a Scion/Intet/Xenagos dragon deck and an Ayli aristocrat deck.
Still contemplating what to do with Zur,should I be running countermagic?
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Well that just means I'll get a friend of mine to play a lot of FNM next month.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Not exactly a chase card, is it? And it already has an FNM printing? It feels like kind of a weird choice.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Goblin Warchief is a random choice
How so? It feels very random if it's not tied to anything.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
.
I have been playing Magic for over a week now. I have been reading a ton on the Internet and watching a lot of playthroughs. Fortunately for me, my wife likes playing the game as well. We play a ton of other board games but I was still surprised she like Magic. To top it all off, she kicks my ass every single time. She's 20-2 with various Intro Decks we have.
So in order to get my board game group into it or back into Magic (some have played long ago), I ordered four complete playsets of Origins, Battle for Zendikar, Oath of the Gatewatch and Magic 2015 core. We have a group of about 4-6 people and will meet once a week. The idea is teach those that don't know how to play and then build decks using the Commons and Uncommons only from those sets. We have chosen not to play with Rares at least for now. This way we can keep the power level flat with no arms race.
From scouring the Internet it seems the biggest complaint about Magic is its cost, primarily if one were to play in a competitive setting. I paid about $30-$40 on average for the Mint playsets. They should have enough cards for all in our group to have about 2 decks a piece. So I don't think that is too bad an entry cost for casual play.
From what I have seen it looks like Rares ruin the game in a way. They are ultra powerful (usually), they swing the game, or downright dominate the game.
I took one of the Intro decks I bought before picking up the playsets to the local Comic store. There was a guy there with a deck he put together for a tournament. We played a match. So anyway by turn 3 I had him down to 14HP and he had no creatures on the board. I thought I was actually going to win! What he did have were Rare lands that gave him 2 mana each and other cards that allowed him to search his deck for cards. Then came 2 Rare creatures, Eldrazi somethings. Each could hit with 5 Toughness and take out a land or Enchantment when entering battlefield. So the game was over by turn 6 as he was able to do 20 damage in those two turns. He took out one of my lands, and exiled my Creature and Enchantment.
So the lesson I took away, is as long as you have equal power decks each player should have a chance to win if skill is equal as well. If not its not even a fair fight. I wondered if I were to have his deck, if I could beat him if he used my Intro Deck. If that were the case, that's pretty lame. It would be like money wins the game, not skill/luck. Have any of you experimented with that?
All in all as a first time Magic player, I am enjoying it. It's almost like I get to make my own game within the sandbox of cards. I am now trying to learn how to build a strong deck that synergizes well. I look forward to all the decks that will come from the playsets we have.
I am also interested in the Limited formats. Especially the one where you get 6 Boosters and make the best deck you can out of it and compete. That seems like fair way to compete as it isn't the person who spends the most money will win most of the time. I feel the outcome of a game should be who has the better skill/luck not who can buy all the best players (cards). To each their own though. I can see on the flip, how cool it is to drop the mighty Mythics and Rares.
Any tips or guidance to a Magic Newbie?
So in order to get my board game group into it or back into Magic (some have played long ago), I ordered four complete playsets of Origins, Battle for Zendikar, Oath of the Gatewatch and Magic 2015 core. We have a group of about 4-6 people and will meet once a week. The idea is teach those that don't know how to play and then build decks using the Commons and Uncommons only from those sets. We have chosen not to play with Rares at least for now. This way we can keep the power level flat with no arms race.
From scouring the Internet it seems the biggest complaint about Magic is its cost, primarily if one were to play in a competitive setting. I paid about $30-$40 on average for the Mint playsets. They should have enough cards for all in our group to have about 2 decks a piece. So I don't think that is too bad an entry cost for casual play.
From what I have seen it looks like Rares ruin the game in a way. They are ultra powerful (usually), they swing the game, or downright dominate the game.
I took one of the Intro decks I bought before picking up the playsets to the local Comic store. There was a guy there with a deck he put together for a tournament. We played a match. So anyway by turn 3 I had him down to 14HP and he had no creatures on the board. I thought I was actually going to win! What he did have were Rare lands that gave him 2 mana each and other cards that allowed him to search his deck for cards. Then came 2 Rare creatures, Eldrazi somethings. Each could hit with 5 Toughness and take out a land or Enchantment when entering battlefield. So the game was over by turn 6 as he was able to do 20 damage in those two turns. He took out one of my lands, and exiled my Creature and Enchantment.
So the lesson I took away, is as long as you have equal power decks each player should have a chance to win if skill is equal as well. If not its not even a fair fight. I wondered if I were to have his deck, if I could beat him if he used my Intro Deck. If that were the case, that's pretty lame. It would be like money wins the game, not skill/luck. Have any of you experimented with that?
All in all as a first time Magic player, I am enjoying it. It's almost like I get to make my own game within the sandbox of cards. I am now trying to learn how to build a strong deck that synergizes well. I look forward to all the decks that will come from the playsets we have.
I am also interested in the Limited formats. Especially the one where you get 6 Boosters and make the best deck you can out of it and compete. That seems like fair way to compete as it isn't the person who spends the most money will win most of the time. I feel the outcome of a game should be who has the better skill/luck not who can buy all the best players (cards). To each their own though. I can see on the flip, how cool it is to drop the mighty Mythics and Rares.
Any tips or guidance to a Magic Newbie?
Thats how it worled w mma
Yeah, so with you've about got it correct. If you want to play with friends you're probably doing it right with the commons and uncommons. Keeping everyone with the same set of cards and working and building decks from there should lead to a fair playing field. Another way you can do it is play a Sealed League where you each buy a booster every week or whatever and add that to your pool.
When you go to stores to play Constructed Tournaments (or play against random people) you'll possibly be playing against some people with the best possible cards for their deck, and unfortunately that means they'll be decks that are significantly expensive due to Rares and Mythics. At a shop you'll run into people all over that spectrum of spending from people trying out budget kitchen table brews to people playing the decks that just won the last big tournament. It isn't really "pay to win" because you can't spend infinite money to make your deck unbeatable, but it is certainly "pay to compete". There's an amount of money you need to spend if you want to have a deck capable of competing with the other optimal decks in the format. If you'd like to see what it's like to play with these decks with your friends you can always proxy them up (ie print out pictures of the cards and put them in sleeves or apply marker to other cards) and play them in matches among each other. Just can't do that in tournaments.
(As an aside, it was pretty crappy of the guy you played at the store to play a Modern Eldrazi deck against an intro deck. That just isn't fun for anyone.)
Limited formats are indeed the great balancer. There's certainly luck involved in terms of what you open and there's a ton of skill involved in drafting and properly building a sealed pool, but it is balanced on the financial level.
Hahahaha this is kind of great.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
apparently with a pink dildo.
Royal_Flush
Member
There is a reason why I don't play competitively and that's that I'm not willing to put several hundred dollars on the table for one deck. There just are cards that are better than others and those cost money.
The problem with playing completely without rares and mythics is that you don't have a whole lot of variety. Unusual or more complex cards always almost are at rare or mythic. In my playgroup we have established a pretty solid meta with a lot of wanky combo decks (The rares in there are mostly cheap, because they are so specific to the strategy of the deck that very few people play them) and worse versions of real decks (with the premium cards replaced by worse cards that fulfill the same role but are cheaper, because everyone wants to play the better card). We rarely have decks above 25$. If you can establish a playgroup that doesn't throw itself into an arms race if you let them loose, you'll have a good time. If someone tries to beat the others with some deck you consider too expensive, just tell them you don't want to spend that much money to build a deck that can compete and refuse to play against this deck.
I also think Limited is great, because money has no say whatsoever in there. Everyone gets the exactly same chances. Of course it sucks if the rare in your first booster is a Hedron Alignment or some other unplayable crap, but in principle everyone has the same chances. You have o spend money each time you want to play some limited, tough. Except if you want to re-use boosters (which just feels "wrong" to me) or biold a cube.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Magic is only fun when all participants have spent the same amount of money to play. If you're playing "Constructed" (the "regular" version of the game where you build/construct decks and play against other people who've done the same), there is really no point in competing above your buy-in. If you're just getting into the game, I would recommend picking up different iterations of the "Duel Decks" series and playing those with your friends. If you want to start building your own decks, definitely stick to commons and uncommons from the outset and don't start adding rares unless everybody in your playgroup agrees that they want to move to that level of commitment. Alternately, just put a hard limit on the $$ that players in your group are allowed to spend to build a deck.
Limited is a financial equalizer, but fair warning - it's much harder to play than Constructed. Not only is there skill in playing the game, but learning to draft is a challenge. It's incredibly rewarding however - Draft is my absolute favorite way to play the game and I don't want to discourage you from trying. Just recognize that it will take some time.
Ultron87's suggestion of "Sealed Leagues" is a great one if you have people you can get together to play with each week. Start by having everyone buy 6 booster packs of the latest block (here, I'd start with 3 "Battle For Zendikar" and 3 "Oath of the Gatewatch"). Each player then builds a deck of 40 cards (23 spells, 17 lands - you'll likely need to pick up some basic lands) and battles against each other. Each week, each player is allowed to buy one booster pack to add to their pool of cards and use to tweak or completely rebuild their deck. This way you'll all be getting more cards each week, and your decks will be getting better and better at a fairly natural pace.
This game really is a lot of fun, and you can make it work for you even if you don't want to deal with swingy Rares and Mythics.
The arms race in a casual circle can get brutal. It's all fun and games until someone drops a turn two Jin-Gitaxias and then only one guy is having fun at that point. Establishing deckbuilding rules in a casual group is immensely important to avoid those sort of inclusions. I have a few too many Modern decks and if the power level is there I'll play them but more than happy to play with my no-rares Zendikar block vampire tribal deck if that means everyone at the table gets to enjoy a competitive game.
Sealed Leagues and Drafting are both fantastic ideas for casual play groups. Take money out of the equation as much as it is feasible to at that level.
charlequin
Banned
If you're playing with a steady casual group, there's a few options that don't involve a cards arms race. One is draft -- that'll cost money each time you play, but it's a fixed cost and everyone can contribute equally, plus it's just a lot of fun. (If you try this and enjoy it, you and your group should definitely check out the Conspiracy set coming this summer, which is designed specifically for drafting and then playing multi-player games.)
Alternately, if people want to build decks, you've got a few options. If people want to play fairly "normal" decks but you want to keep expensive cards out of it, there's a format called Pauper which only allows commons (and some variants like Peasant that also allow uncommons) which you could play.
Or, if you're into multiplayer and big splashy effects, you could get into Commander, the most popular casual multiplayer format. Every November Wizards put out 5 preconstructed decks for the format that run about $30 apiece and which are very playable as starting points in the format. I play this with a group of my college friends whenever we're all in town together; we each started with one of these preconstructed decks and then made our own modifications (we set a cap of $30 extra spending per person.)
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Block with something that has 4 power.
Royal_Flush
Member
Fun fact: We most of the time only play with modern-legal cards but one guy has a Pauper Affinity deck (with Artifact Lands, etc) and it's just crushing us
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
In all honesty, its probably too much of a pain in the ass to get rid of all these cards for me to really quit, although I'm still thinking about it.
The game has frequently gotten tedious due to inherent flaws in the initial design and I keep feeling like formats get broken by poorly tested interactions which ends up making the format less fun, e.g. "we didn't test Reflector Mage in constructed" or "we didn't sleeve up Eye of Ugin with our new Eldrazi because we're okay with a format that costs $2000 to get into breaking entirely for months at a time because lol." I mean, I get the concept that you don't want to hamstring your design space, but breaking formats isn't a thing you should just be okay with.
Limited is fine, I just find Limited difficult. It's just tiring when I keep noticing things I don't like over the things I do like.
The game has frequently gotten tedious due to inherent flaws in the initial design and I keep feeling like formats get broken by poorly tested interactions which ends up making the format less fun, e.g. "we didn't test Reflector Mage in constructed" or "we didn't sleeve up Eye of Ugin with our new Eldrazi because we're okay with a format that costs $2000 to get into breaking entirely for months at a time because lol." I mean, I get the concept that you don't want to hamstring your design space, but breaking formats isn't a thing you should just be okay with.
Limited is fine, I just find Limited difficult. It's just tiring when I keep noticing things I don't like over the things I do like.
SigmasonicX
Member
First of all, you should know the Constructed formats:
Standard - The card pool is only made up of the last several sets. Currently, the sets are:
Khans of Tarkir, Fate Reforged
Dragons of Tarkir, Magic Origins
Battle for Zendikar, Oath of the Gatewatch
In April, Shadows over Innistrad will release, and those first two sets will rotate out of Standard. Standard is usually on the cheaper side, but lands with very high demand were reprinted in Khans of Tarkir, and they have allowed for people to make decks that just clump together all of the most powerful cards, so Standard is pretty expensive right now. It will get much cheaper in April.
Legacy - The card pool is made up of all cards ever released, excluding those on the banned list. Due to the price, relatively few people play this.
Vintage - Similar to Legacy, except the banned list is different, and there is a restricted list of cards you can only have one of in your deck. The emphasis is on playing broken cards like Black Lotus, so that and similar cards are excluded from the banned list. This is even more expensive than Legacy.
Modern - The card pool is made up of all cards that were ever in Standard from Core Set 8th Edition on. This is meant to be a cheaper alternative to Legacy and Vintage, but it's still pretty expensive.
As for the Eldrazi deck you encountered, you just happened to encounter a deck that's dominating Modern right now and will almost definitely have at least one card banned in April. That said, there is no world in which you would have won against a deck built for Modern using an Intro Pack barring land issues from your opponent. Intro Packs are built for Standard, an inherently weaker format, and Intro Packs are specifically designed to be weak even in Standard. That's to encourage you to buy more cards to beef them up.
If you're going to create decks to teach new players about the game, then I recommend building your own decks beforehand instead of creating them out of the pool of cards you open up. Teach playing before deck building, that is to say. I mean, you could probably just use Intro Packs, but I like adding a personal touch. For example, here's a red-green deck I designed for just such an occasion, though I haven't tested it yet.
You shouldn't shy away from rares, necessarily. They are important for getting people actually excited about the game, and they can help to end games more quickly.
You've basically summed up the main reason why I'm done sinking money into constructed competitive formats. Like, I get that they're pumping cards out at a crazy pace, but if the pros can figure it out from the time of release to a Pro Tour, the internal staff needs to be able to as well, OR, at least hire additional staff whose job is to do exactly that.
GregLombardi
Member
This is like the age old question that basically everyone has asked. Do I want to be a competitor, a casual, or do I want to quit the game entirely?
I feel like quitting the game entirely comes back and bites you in the butt eventually because if you played it this long, you obviously love it enough to want to play in the future. In my case, I absolutely love limited and Commander. I think they are fantastic addictions that, on the addiction scale, are cheaper than other addictions I might have. So they save me money and I have tons of fun with them.
I think, in the end, you either accept the flaws inherent in the game or you don't, as those flaws are unlikely to wash away in the future.
In the end I feel the best way to play Magic is to build a cube, it's the best way to 100% control over what gets played/how broken the decks are. There's still mana screw/flood but you can set the power of the "metagame", which is very important to me too. Competitive Magic is way too tiring IMO.
GregLombardi
Member
This is also a good solution. Cubes are great.
That said...you guys need to understand: in the most competitive things in the world, there is a small section of life where people are competitive, and then they are not because it is too much. This happens with everything...football, baseball, hockey, esports, typing speed, mating, etc. Its just life. No need to give up on it.
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