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[ngower]

Tried getting back into the game a few years ago but ultimately couldn't make it work (was broke as hell). Picked up an Oaths theme deck (Twisted Reality) and am heading to FNM tonight.

Are there any "budget" deck lists out there that would be a better investment than trying to build up the theme deck I've got right now?

 

[Yeef]

Rotation isn't too far away. It's probably just best to wait until Shadows Over Innistrad hits before spending any real money on cards for Standard. The fetchlands are making things pretty expensive right now. While the fetchlands will retain their value in the long term, most of the other cards won't.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Looks like Dragon's already going up, too.

If you can somehow profit off of it, go for it. I mean, the buy in is pretty tiny, but I don't think there's a payoff.

 

[Xis]

Tried getting back into the game a few years ago but ultimately couldn't make it work (was broke as hell). Picked up an Oaths theme deck (Twisted Reality) and am heading to FNM tonight.

Are there any "budget" deck lists out there that would be a better investment than trying to build up the theme deck I've got right now?

The theme decks run a lot of 1-of and 2-of of cards. I used to like to buy two copies of a theme deck, cut the weakest cards, and bring the stronger ones up to 4x copies. Probably cheaper to buy the cards as singles though.

Looking at the deck, it looks like it's trying to do too many different things. I'd probably cut the ingest guys and the processors and play up the 'colorless matters' theme more.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Forced BW despite passing an Isolation Zone and an Oblivion Strike and it's still a good deck.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Tried getting back into the game a few years ago but ultimately couldn't make it work (was broke as hell). Picked up an Oaths theme deck (Twisted Reality) and am heading to FNM tonight.

Are there any "budget" deck lists out there that would be a better investment than trying to build up the theme deck I've got right now?

$59.00, mostly because of a random 4 dollar uncommon in Monastery Swiftspear.

Deck: Budget Prowess

//Lands
5 Island
4 Mountain
4 Shivan Reef
4 Swiftwater Cliffs
4 Wandering Fumarole

//Spells
4 Slip Through Space
2 Expedite
4 Fiery Impulse
3 Temur Battle Rage
4 Tormenting Voice
3 Treasure Cruise
3 Titan's Strength

//Creatures
4 Jeskai Elder
4 Elusive Spellfist
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Stormchaser Mage

//Sideboard
2 Dispel
2 Jeering Instigator
3 Negate
2 Reality Shift
2 Sidisi's Faithful
3 Stubborn Denial
1 Wild Slash

Display deck statistics

Here's a whole list of 'em

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/decks/budget/standard#paper

The common theme if you look at these lists is that most competitive lists run 3 or 4 of the good cards for consistency. These decks are not the best they could be (the sample above doesn't have Jace or Abbot of Keral Keep), but if your game plan goes right you can win even against the top decks.

 

[ngower]

$59.00, mostly because of a random 4 dollar uncommon in Monastery Swiftspear.

Deck: Budget Prowess

//Lands
5 Island
4 Mountain
4 Shivan Reef
4 Swiftwater Cliffs
4 Wandering Fumarole

//Spells
4 Slip Through Space
2 Expedite
4 Fiery Impulse
3 Temur Battle Rage
4 Tormenting Voice
3 Treasure Cruise
3 Titan's Strength

//Creatures
4 Jeskai Elder
4 Elusive Spellfist
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Stormchaser Mage

//Sideboard
2 Dispel
2 Jeering Instigator
3 Negate
2 Reality Shift
2 Sidisi's Faithful
3 Stubborn Denial
1 Wild Slash

Display deck statistics

Here's a whole list of 'em

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/decks/budget/standard#paper

The common theme if you look at these lists is that most competitive lists run 3 or 4 of the good cards for consistency. These decks are not the best they could be (the sample above doesn't have Jace or Abbot of Keral Keep), but if your game plan goes right you can win even against the top decks.

Wow, thank you! I picked up some Pokemon cards today as well so that I could teach my nephew to play (and re-learn myself) and scored two cards I could probably sell back to the shop for $15-20, so that ought to eat up a decent chunk of this deck's cost.

 

[Magic Pancake]

God, I hope it isn't an Egypt plane. One of the things I found most disappointing about Theros was how it was just Ancient Greece: the set. I liked how with Khan's there was a clear Central Asian influence, but it wasn't just "Hey, here is a card based off an existing myth, geddit?"

With all that said, the rumour itself is probably bullshit. I can't see anyone inside leaking a set this early, and as has been said no one on the outside would know.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Just lost against RW creatures + removal because I got flooded 2 games in a row, while my opponent not only curved out but never went above 5 lands in either game while I was on 10 and 12 respectively.

Well can't win em all, one of those 10% games. At least it didn't happen with a draft I consider amazing.

Idk how you amis do it, mtg is way more expensive over there. Stormchaser is 60 cents over here.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Another thing to note is that you can play the video game Magic Duels for free, though there's something up with it. There are a fair amount of bugs and the Oath of the Gatewatch update has been delayed so that it will release at the same time as the Shadows over Innistrad update, and it still hasn't released on PS4, and there are deck rarity restrictions (though that's by design), but it still can scratch the Magic itch.

And yeah, Standard rotation is close enough that I recommend either waiting until SOI comes out or just trying out decks that don't use cards from Khans of Tarkir or Fate Reforged. Standard is really expensive right now, but that's 90% due to Khans reprinting the fetchlands, which see heavy play in Legacy and Modern.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Literally 2 cards in my deck rotate - 1 Murderous Cut, 1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor.

Deck: Black-White-Colorless Eldrazi

//Lands
3 Blighted Fen
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Llanowar Wastes
3 Plains
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
4 Shambling Vent
6 Swamp

//Spells
1 Murderous Cut
3 Silkwrap
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
3 Spatial Contortion
4 Transgress the Mind

//Creatures
4 Bearer of Silence
3 Drana, Liberator of Malakir
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Wasteland Strangler

//Sideboard
2 Flaying Tendrils
3 Duress
1 Languish
2 Infinite Obliteration
3 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
3 Hallowed Moonlight
1 Spatial Contortion

Display deck statistics

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Ended up 2-1 second place because the guy who 3-0d put the score when playing against me accidentally as 2-1. Got a worldbreaker and a Kozilek.

 

[Infinite Stars]

Question for you all:

Delve is obviously a mechanic that Wizards vastly underrated the power level of when it comes to cards. What do you think are the odds of getting a "fixed" Delve like this?

Treasure Cruise

Delve X(You may exile up to X cards from your graveyard to pay for X generic in this spells cost)

Draw 3 Cards.

You'd be able to keep delve cards with a cap on their lowered cost so you'd not end up with 3 cards for U. Obviously X would depend on the card, like TC would be Delve 4-5.

 

[Magic Pancake]

Question for you all:

Delve is obviously a mechanic that Wizards vastly underrated the power level of when it comes to cards. What do you think are the odds of getting a "fixed" Delve like this?

Treasure Cruise

Delve X(You may exile up to X cards from your graveyard to pay for X generic in this spells cost)

Draw 3 Cards.

You'd be able to keep delve cards with a cap on their lowered cost so you'd not end up with 3 cards for U. Obviously X would depend on the card, like TC would be Delve 4-5.

Too wordy, and part of the fun of delve spells is being able to cast your spells for almost free. I just think it's an inherently hard to balance mechanic.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I don't think Delve is that hard to balance, its just that they shouldn't produce cards with Delve on them that have either Dig Through Time's text or Ancestral Recall's text.

 

[Magic Pancake]

I don't think Delve is that hard to balance, its just that they shouldn't produce cards with Delve on them that have either Dig Through Time's text or Ancestral Recall's text.

Eh, when a vanilla 5/5 becomes one of the better cards in modern you know a mechanic is at the very least problematic.

 

[ngower]

Trying to build that deck which was posted earlier and pretty much the bulk of the deck (expensive stuff) is out of stock. So it's a cheap but probably ineffective barrier to entry. I'll just rebuild again come April. I need something decent enough to learn with.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Eh, when a vanilla 5/5 becomes one of the better cards in modern you know a mechanic is at the very least problematic.

I don't see what the problem with Gurmag Angler even is. The deck it goes in is like Tier 2 at best.

The only cards that ended up being busted were the ones that gave you more cards.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Gurmag Angler is the fixed Tarmogoyf. It also shrinks the Goyf.

 

[Magic Pancake]

I don't see what the problem with Gurmag Angler even is. The deck it goes in is like Tier 2 at best.

The only cards that ended up being busted were the ones that gave you more cards.

If your talking the current meta, then I'd probably put it even lower. It did good work over the summer, though.

The point more is that delve as a cost reducing mechanic scales poorly, considering how larger formats can fill up the graveyard faster. If it's a mechanic that you can't print any good cards for less they be broken, what's the point? Just crease a new mechanic which uses similar space but is less easy to exploit.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I wonder when they'll learn it with the free spells every single time it's being regarded as an error.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I doubt they consider Delve an error, its just that its really powerful and if they brought it back, they probably would print cards with lower ceilings than Treasure Cruise or Dig.

I'm just saying they're careful with mechanics that have proven to be busted in the past. I don't think Madness was really busted, but it was definitely a tier 1 deck. It's kind of the same concept as Delve, where it isn't *really* that hard to activate it ability at the cheapest possible cost.

 

[phazedplasma]

hopefully we'll get a rootwalla reprint in SOI

 

[charlequin]

If it's a mechanic that you can't print any good cards for less they be broken, what's the point?

But... they did print cards that were good but not broken? Tasigur isn't broken, Murderous Cut isn't broken, Become Immense is kind of broken-adjacent but not actually broken....

 

[Angry Grimace]

Am I the only who keeps unintentionally calling the upcoming set "Scars of Innistrad?"

 

[Magic Pancake]

But... they did print cards that were good but not broken? Tasigur isn't broken, Murderous Cut isn't broken, Become Immense is kind of broken-adjacent but not actually broken....

I think Become Immense makes my point for me. The card is so perilously close to being too good, that if they were to bring the mechanic back they would never reprint it. They would have to do a version which gave less power or required more coloured mana (if not both), and you are left with a dull and uninteresting card.

Furthermore, at the back of their mind they would constantly have to be worried that they might end up creating another broken card, so they would consistently overcost or underpower the cards to avoid that happening again, and you are back to what I said, what's the point?

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Am I the only who keeps unintentionally calling the upcoming set "Scars of Innistrad?"

No but I continue to call OGW 'Oath to the Gatewatch'.

 

[kirblar]

I think Become Immense makes my point for me. The card is so perilously close to being too good, that if they were to bring the mechanic back they would never reprint it. They would have to do a version which gave less power or required more coloured mana (if not both), and you are left with a dull and uninteresting card.

Furthermore, at the back of their mind they would constantly have to be worried that they might end up creating another broken card, so they would consistently overcost or underpower the cards to avoid that happening again, and you are back to what I said, what's the point?

You're not, though. A divination or inspiration for 4U or 5U is still a good card.

Lower power != less fun.

Just less stupid.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Lol Become Immense isn't busted its Infect that's busted

 

[OnPoint]

Lol Become Immense isn't busted its Infect that's busted

True dat. It warps everything around it.

 

[Infinite Stars]

Lol Become Immense isn't busted its Infect that's busted

Infect is one of those things that Development should have caught. Wizards loves making pump spells/Combat tricks and Infect just completely fucks with that idea. It's "fair" for your opponent to get +6/+6 on a creature when you start at 20 life. It's not so fair when it's effectively +12/+12 because Infect is counting to 10 and there's no real way to interact with the counters once you get them.

I mean, I like the flavour, but MaRo is deluded if he thought it was ever going to return, especially since Wizards is loving Combat tricks recently.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Next phyrexia they just gotta introduce a way to interact with poison counters that's not increasing them.

And fuck phyresis in EDH

 

[charlequin]

I think Become Immense makes my point for me. The card is so perilously close to being too good, that if they were to bring the mechanic back they would never reprint it. They would have to do a version which gave less power or required more coloured mana (if not both), and you are left with a dull and uninteresting card.

Why would they have to do that? It edges close to broken in Modern but it already exists so reprinting it has no impact on that format; it's part of a good deck but nowhere close to dominant or obnoxious in Standard so it seems totally safe to reprint there.

You're not, though. A divination or inspiration for 4U or 5U is still a good card.

Lower power != less fun.

Just less stupid.

Right, just reducing swinginess by making the resulting effect smaller goes a long way to keeping the mechanic in a good place.

Infect is one of those things that Development should have caught. Wizards loves making pump spells/Combat tricks and Infect just completely fucks with that idea.

It was totally safe in Standard and functional in Limited, so I'm not sure they really did anything wrong in developing it the first time. If double strike is okay I don't really buy the idea that a mechanic that effectively doubles your damage output is inherently busted. The problem isn't that it's innately too good, it's that it's swingy in a way that makes balancing difficult because a tiny change can take a card from amazing to terrible or vice versa.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Goddamn Kamigawa block is rough. Sorry guys who like it, but even regular Oath drafts make it seem horrible.

 

[Giant Panda]

Do people here consider Wither the fixed version of infect?

 

[The Technomancer]

Do people here consider Wither the fixed version of infect?

Wither came first actually. I like Wither, I'd be happy to see it return

 

[charlequin]

Goddamn Kamigawa block is rough. Sorry guys who like it, but even regular Oath drafts make it seem horrible.

I only ever liked CHKx3.

Do people here consider Wither the fixed version of infect?

It kind of does a different thing.

 

[bigkrev]

Goddamn Kamigawa block is rough. Sorry guys who like it, but even regular Oath drafts make it seem horrible.

I loved the 3 Triple Champions drafts I did last week and felt that it was true enough to my memory- I would no longer say it is my favorite format of all time, but it's certanly in the top 3. The creature power level is absurd compared to what we get today, but you can still draft wacky spell decks thanks to splice, and that's something that really isn't true in modern sets anymore.

Betrayers draft though.... man. It's.... rough. And I remember liking it just as much, if not more, than Champions! I want to punch in the face the person who decided that Okiba-Gang Shinobi should be a common.

 

[Ashodin]

Starting to not enjoy the types of players playing EDH at FNM. They're basically bringing extremely competitive decks and going to start an arms race.

So now I have basically painted targets on those competitive players and going to kill them any chance I get in our pods.

Omnath will eat fucking faces

 

[Angry Grimace]

Draft went fine except whoops no removal whatsoever (((((((((((

Like absolutely no one is green, but nobody got the common green fight card in any of the BFZ packs

 

[Giant Panda]

It kind of does a different thing.

It does play fairly different in practice, but only because it gets rid of the part that most players hate.

 

[Ashodin]

Apparently pauper is going to start as well, so that should be fun.

I already built Izzetron as my deck of choice!

 

[noquarter]

It does play fairly different in practice, but only because it gets rid of the part that most players hate.

I want to say that MaRo said that adding the Wither effect to Poison fixed Poison since it allows creatures with Poison to have a chance to kill regular creatures. Infect also allowed you to add more Poison Counters since Poison used to be an effect on creatures, so it would be like 'if ~ attacks and is not blocked, defending player receives a poison counter' and any damage the creature did went against life total.

Personally I like Infect. I hope it returns, since while it was in Standard it didn't dominate. Also would be nice for a card to be printed that removes Poison counters, and since Exile seems to be getting closer and closer to a second Graveyard wouldn't be surprised if the stance on Poison widened to allow something to remove counters.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Next phyrexia they just gotta introduce a way to interact with poison counters that's not increasing them.

And fuck phyresis in EDH

I had this idea (or something like it) for a mechanic a while ago.

Blight - When this creature deals combat damage to a player, if that player has no poison counters, that player gets a poison counter.
Then that creature would get some boost if the player is poisoned. Basically like renown, but it affects every creature with blight.

For example:
Phyrexian Baloth - 2G
Creature - Beast Horror
Blight
As long as an opponent is poisoned, Phyrexian Baloth gets +1/+1 and trample.
3/2

 

[keeblerdrow]

2-of Narset Transcedant in Bant coco is so good in the sideboard that I'm experimenting putting them in the main for at least the next week. Never plan on hitting with her plus, but she's a massive butt you gotta deal with and rebounding coco or dromoka's command are equally devastating. If you are running this deck, try her out. I was bringing her in as a whole pan for mardu green, grixis, and the mirror, but ended up just bringing her in every match except atarka red and eldrazi aggro. Just the threat of her ultimate is such a pressure on your opponent.

 

[OnPoint]

I had this idea (or something like it) for a mechanic a while ago.

Blight - When this creature deals combat damage to a player, if that player has no poison counters, that player gets a poison counter.
Then that creature would get some boost if the player is poisoned. Basically like renown, but it affects every creature with blight.

For example:
Phyrexian Baloth - 2G
Creature - Beast Horror
Blight
As long as an opponent is poisoned, Phyrexian Baloth gets +1/+1 and trample.
3/2

I actually like this.

 

[ElyrionX]

Starting to not enjoy the types of players playing EDH at FNM. They're basically bringing extremely competitive decks and going to start an arms race.

So now I have basically painted targets on those competitive players and going to kill them any chance I get in our pods.

Omnath will eat fucking faces

This is virtually inevitable in most playgroups. Omnath is hardly cutthroat.

 

[Ashodin]

This is virtually inevitable in most playgroups. Omnath is hardly cutthroat.

My build is ruthless and vicious

 

[keeblerdrow]

A Nissa/Hardened Scales deck might be showing up in some numbers tomorrow at GP Houston, it seems. I've got a main deck of this on lock and it seems great, but I can't figure out an effect sideboard if I run into some deck that just confounds its main plan. Maybe transformative? Just turn throw in Gideons and Reflector Mages and Secure the Wastes and beat face?

 

[WanderingWind]

My build is ruthless and vicious

Begun, the EDH arms war, has.