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[SigmasonicX]

First draft of the big bad.

That last ability is confusingly worded, and I'm not sure how it could be worded to work as intended. Perhaps start with trinket text like, "You gain X life," then follow with, "If X is equal to the number of creatures you control, then etc."

Anyway, generally with high cost spells, if you want them to be impressive, they have to let you get out of a bad situation. If you have no creatures, this guy is completely useless.

EDIT: Funny that they made this rule seemingly just for this situation.

hoopyhobo asked: For whoever asked whether R&D's Secret Lair could add "generic mana" to your mana pool because of its "Ignore all errata" ability, the answer is no. We have a new rule, 106.10, that says "If an effect would add mana represented by a generic mana symbol to a player’s mana pool, that much colorless mana is added to that player’s mana pool."

FYI

 

[Daedardus]

I also don't know about flying. It's red and white, but it feels very off on a green card.

 

[Haines]

Set reviews before time has passed for people can have a lot of problems. When they had triple Mirrodin drafts on MTGO 2 weeks ago, I was amazed that Viridian Longbow (which I knew from previous experience was a bomb) would table. I then figured out why- people who weren't familiar with the format were finding articles from 2003, where the set was released, and none of those articles were talking about how good Viridian Longbow was, because it took time for people to realize how good it was.

Set reviews this early are fine to use as a baseline, but don't obey them like gospel. In a month, when there have been 10s of thousands of drafts to use as data, we will have a better understanding of the format.

Good points all around. maybe instead of listining to it again, i should just be reading the lrcasr reddit and seeing what people think

 

[Horatorobor]

Why do people care much about having matched cards?

 

[Haines]

All of the that dudes spells revolve around creatures and damage it seems.

What about mana, or scry or card draw, or reveal mechanics. Idk, just seems narrow

 

[Angry Grimace]

Why do people care much about having matched cards?

Because if they don't match your opponent can tell which one you just drew and gain information about your hand because there's a lot of ways to have people looking at your hand.

 

[bigkrev]

Why do people care much about having matched cards?

Lets say I thoughtsieze you, and after making you discard a card, I note that you have a Mountain and a Lightning Bolt in your hand. On the next turn, you draw a card, play a Mountain, and pass the turn. I notice that it has different art from the mountain that I saw in your hand- that tells me that you drew it that turn. On the next turn, you Lightning Bolt my creature. However, the Lightning Bolt is from a different set than the one I saw in your hand. That tells me that you just drew it, and I still know the entire contents of your hand.

It's such a minimal edgecase, but it can give you an advantage at some point.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Interestingly people looked at me weirdly at the 2HG when I wrote down the cards in our opponent's hand.
Like I get that it's tryhard but it's also hella useful.

 

[Daedardus]

Lets say I thoughtsieze you, and after making you discard a card, I note that you have a Mountain and a Lightning Bolt in your hand. On the next turn, you draw a card, play a Mountain, and pass the turn. I notice that it has different art from the mountain that I saw in your hand- that tells me that you drew it that turn. On the next turn, you Lightning Bolt my creature. However, the Lightning Bolt is from a different set than the one I saw in your hand. That tells me that you just drew it, and I still know the entire contents of your hand.

It's such a minimal edgecase, but it can give you an advantage at some point.

Then you'd just play the one your opponent already saw, simple as that.

 

[Yeef]

Then you'd just play the one your opponent already saw, simple as that.

You're forcing yourself to go through extra effort (remembering which cards your opponent saw) at that point, where if all your cards were matched you wouldn't have to worry about it. The more potential points of failure, the more chances for something to go wrong.

 

[bigkrev]

Then you'd just play the one your opponent already saw, simple as that.

Why should you be putting a handicap on yourself?

 

[Horatorobor]

Because if they don't match your opponent can tell which one you just drew and gain information about your hand because there's a lot of ways to have people looking at your hand.

Lets say I thoughtsieze you, and after making you discard a card, I note that you have a Mountain and a Lightning Bolt in your hand. On the next turn, you draw a card, play a Mountain, and pass the turn. I notice that it has different art from the mountain that I saw in your hand- that tells me that you drew it that turn. On the next turn, you Lightning Bolt my creature. However, the Lightning Bolt is from a different set than the one I saw in your hand. That tells me that you just drew it, and I still know the entire contents of your hand.

It's such a minimal edgecase, but it can give you an advantage at some point.

Interesting, never had though had about that. That can give a somewhat an edge in some situations.

 

[Haines]

That card thing goes in hearthstone too. You dont want to play one golden card and one non for a lot of reasons where they can figure out info.

I never worry about it tho in that game.

 

[Ashodin]

Take 2:

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Wouldn't the wording be "Whenever a land an opponent controls is tapped for mana, add an equal amount of {W} to the controller's mana pool instead."

An easier way would be "Lands your opponents control are plains"

A much better version albeit the + being a bit boring.

 

[Ashodin]

ooh i like lands your opponents control are plains.

 

[tch]

Wow he's pretty crazy OP now haha. The ult is irrelevant his second ability is nuts and thats saying something given his crazy 1st ability. Make a dragon, then deal your opponent 8 damage, then deal 7 damage. They're probably dead at this point haha. Definitely needs to be fixed, how about just burning a creature?

 

[y2dvd]

Yassss. Stoneforge dropping. Keep going lower!

 

[kirblar]

Yassss. Stoneforge dropping. Keep going lower!

1 reprint this year (promo) and a rumored second one if E. Masters is real.

 

[Infinite Stars]

Dang it, I don't want Stoneforge to drop. I'm trying to trade my 3 into 3 Noble Hierarchs.

 

[red13th]

I think they should print this card:

New Animate Dead
1B
Sorcery
Return target creature in your graveyard to the battlefield, it's an enchantment in addition to its other types, put a -1/-1 counter on it.

Or something like that.
Or maybe just reprint Animate Dead.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Animate dead's oracle text is dreadful

 

[red13th]

Animate dead's oracle text is dreadful

Yeah that's why I thought of this "version" that still makes the reanimated creature weak to enchantment hate but it gets -1/-1 instead of -1/-0 since there are no -1/-0 counters.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Yeah that's why I thought of this "version" that still makes the reanimated creature weak to enchantment hate but it gets -1/-1 instead of -1/-0 since there are no -1/-0 counters.

Turn 1 Despise self, discard ulamog
Turn 2 Animate Dead targeting Ulamog

Problem?

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Yeah that's why I thought of this "version" that still makes the reanimated creature weak to enchantment hate but it gets -1/-1 instead of -1/-0 since there are no -1/-0 counters.

That's strictly way better, removes any hate targeting cmc, as well as any bounce or otherwise removal on the aura part.

 

[blindrocket]

So if I want flip Jace for Modern, it seems like it's better to wait on trading/purchasing because he'll be less used in Standard once fetches rotate?

 

[Angry Grimace]

So if I want flip Jace for Modern, it seems like it's better to wait on trading/purchasing because he'll be less used in Standard once fetches rotate?

I find it highly unlikely he will be used all that much less

 

[Haines]

Retarded question to show my newbiness

Sweep away

It only bounces an attacking creature to the pile if its actually in the middle of an attack right? If the combat is over and onto the opponents turn and they play sweep away does the creature still count as attacking 2 phases later, i feel like im having a brain fart here

 

[blindrocket]

I find it highly unlikely he will be used all that much less

I'm looking at a trade like this:

2	2	
Fulminator Mage
$24.69      
1	1	
Iona, Shield of Emeria
$9.27      
2	2	
Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
$61.72      
1	1	
Mox Opal
$38.49      
1	1	
Shrine of the Forsaken Gods
$0.55      
2	2	
Spellskite
$34.99      
9	Total value:	$290.62

For my:

1	1	1	
Cryptic Command
$54.14      
1	2	1	
Karakas
$147.51    
1	5	1	
Liliana of the Veil
$84.99      
3	Total value:	$286.64

 

[Yeef]

Retarded question to show my newbiness

Sweep away

It only bounces an attacking creature to the pile if its actually in the middle of an attack right? If the combat is over and onto the opponents turn and they play sweep away does the creature still count as attacking 2 phases later, i feel like im having a brain fart here

It only puts the creature on top if it's attacking. Once it's declared as an attacker it stays attacking until the next main phase. If, for some reason, you want to wait until after combat damage to Sweep it Away, you can do so either during the Combat Damage step or the End of Combat step.

 

[noquarter]

I'm looking at a trade like this:

2	2	
Fulminator Mage
$24.69      
1	1	
Iona, Shield of Emeria
$9.27      
2	2	
Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
$61.72      
1	1	
Mox Opal
$38.49      
1	1	
Shrine of the Forsaken Gods
$0.55      
2	2	
Spellskite
$34.99      
9	Total value:	$290.62

For my:

1	1	1	
Cryptic Command
$54.14      
1	2	1	
Karakas
$147.51    
1	5	1	
Liliana of the Veil
$84.99      
3	Total value:	$286.64

If you aren't using your stuff it seems like a decent trade. I always hate trading anything eternal for standard, but if you want it for Modern I wouldn't feel too bad about it.

 

[sgjackson]

Here's an intensely stupid hypothetical card design question I thought of on the ride home today.

A sorcery is printed that reads "You win the game." Is there a fair cost for it, and if so, what is it?

My first guess is WWWUUUBBBRRRGGG, as cards like Emrakul and Door to Nothingness have established 15 as a pretty solid guess at a "You win the game." mana cost, but I'd also assume said card would be broken and I'm curious what interactions would cause it.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Here's an intensely stupid hypothetical card design question I thought of on the ride home today.

A sorcery is printed that reads "You win the game." Is there a fair cost for it, and if so, what is it?

My first guess is WWWUUUBBBRRRGGG, as cards like Emrakul and Door to Nothingness have established 15 as a pretty solid guess at a "You win the game." mana cost, but I'd also assume said card would be broken and I'm curious what interactions would cause it.

I would assume it could be abused the same way Enter the Infinite is, but I don't actually recall how that card gets played. Well, besides this:

There are also cards that get stronger if you have a high-cost spell in your hand, library, or graveyard.

 

[bigkrev]

Vintage Super League is really boring this season. It's nothing but Storm vs Workshops mirriors, with the winner being determined by who wins the die roll each game

 

[charlequin]

Here's an intensely stupid hypothetical card design question I thought of on the ride home today.

A sorcery is printed that reads "You win the game." Is there a fair cost for it, and if so, what is it?

My first guess is WWWUUUBBBRRRGGG, as cards like Emrakul and Door to Nothingness have established 15 as a pretty solid guess at a "You win the game." mana cost, but I'd also assume said card would be broken and I'm curious what interactions would cause it.

You could probably get away with less than 15. Looking at it, your meaningful options for exploiting it would be Spellweaver Helix (this isn't exactly tearing up the charts), Chandra Ablaze (lol), Chandra Pyromaster (lol), Galvanoth (slow and ponderous), Living Lore (still takes a turn), Mizzix's Mastery (same turn, but you still need to get it in the graveyard), Sins of the Past and Spelltwine (both ditto, only more expensive.) Nothing there's gonna ruin any format this would be legal in.

(That's all just on a game balance level, of course; they'd never print that card because it totally sucks fun-wise.)

 

[Ashodin]

Palladia-Mors is fixed

 

[Horatorobor]

Palladia-Mors is fixed

If the planeswalker is at 3 loyalty and you -3, you deal 0 damage?

 

[ultron87]

The minus is so underwhelming.

 

[pigeon]

Here's an intensely stupid hypothetical card design question I thought of on the ride home today.

A sorcery is printed that reads "You win the game." Is there a fair cost for it, and if so, what is it?

My first guess is WWWUUUBBBRRRGGG, as cards like Emrakul and Door to Nothingness have established 15 as a pretty solid guess at a "You win the game." mana cost, but I'd also assume said card would be broken and I'm curious what interactions would cause it.

The fair cost for that spell is (null cost).

 

[Haines]

It only puts the creature on top if it's attacking. Once it's declared as an attacker it stays attacking until the next main phase. If, for some reason, you want to wait until after combat damage to Sweep it Away, you can do so either during the Combat Damage step or the End of Combat step.

Thanks again.

How can i learn this stuff? I asked someone at a prerelease and they said you learn by playing.

Which is great if i could. I have a wife and 2 kids. I even had her play magic with me. Lets put it this way, she wanted to save her 2 mana flash flier til later to block an attack of mine that she dremt up would be a 4/2 and some amazing move by her lol

So i get an hour or two with a friend a week and fmn. I try to jump into duels but its almost offensive how bad it is and i cant afford mtgo

Maybe i just need to read articles or watch videos on youtube or something?

 

[sgjackson]

You could probably get away with less than 15. Looking at it, your meaningful options for exploiting it would be Spellweaver Helix (this isn't exactly tearing up the charts), Chandra Ablaze (lol), Chandra Pyromaster (lol), Galvanoth (slow and ponderous), Living Lore (still takes a turn), Mizzix's Mastery (same turn, but you still need to get it in the graveyard), Sins of the Past and Spelltwine (both ditto, only more expensive.) Nothing there's gonna ruin any format this would be legal in.

(That's all just on a game balance level, of course; they'd never print that card because it totally sucks fun-wise.)

Yeah, I agree. I love goofy alternate wincon cards but this one's way too straightforward even with a 5 color mana cost to be a fun buildaround. Was mostly just a thought exercise because it dawned on me that it might be possible to print this from a balance standpoint if the cost was right.

 

[LaserBuddha]

What kind of monster puts a Blood Moon (except more powerful, only affecting other players, and impossible to get rid of) on a Planeswalker? If this game is still going after you've taken all the turns to cast him and then get him to his ultimate (including your opponent surviving all of those trample attacks for each time you plussed him) then you need a mercy killing instead of land hosing. Just change the ultimate to "I win."

 

[Ashodin]

He's eatin' the mana man. everything cept white be om nom nom nom

 

[Joe Molotov]

Palladia-Mors is fixed

The -3 is "whut?" and the -12 is "whuuuut?"

 

[Yeef]

Thanks again.

How can i learn this stuff? I asked someone at a prerelease and they said you learn by playing.

Which is great if i could. I have a wife and 2 kids. I even had her play magic with me. Lets put it this way, she wanted to save her 2 mana flash flier til later to block an attack of mine that she dremt up would be a 4/2 and some amazing move by her lol

So i get an hour or two with a friend a week and fmn. I try to jump into duels but its almost offensive how bad it is and i cant afford mtgo

Maybe i just need to read articles or watch videos on youtube or something?

It's mainly just about knowing the turn structure and how priority works.

It's easiest to think of priority like passing a baton back and forth (or around the table in a multiplayer game) starting with the play who's turn it is. You can't do anything unless you have priority (the baton), but nothing happens until everyone in the game passes priority in succession. So, for example, if I cast a creature, I immediately get priority. I don't want to respond to my spell, so I pass priority to you. You don't have any response and pass priority back. Since we both passed without doing anything the spell resolves and becomes a creature. If I want to move to the next part of the turn (say from my Main Phase to combat), I pass priority while nothing is on the stack. Then you get priority; if you pass as well then the turn advances to the next part of the turn (Beginning of Combat, in this case). Most of this is heavily shortcutted when playing in paper, but is very explicit when playing MTGO. You get priority during every step and phase except for the untap step and the cleanup step (though there are exceptions to the latter).

The Judge's Corner videos are pretty good at teaching general rules. They're short enough that you can watch one or two here or there without a huge time investment.

 

[kirblar]

The ultimate is hilarious but you have an issue w doubling season

 

[shrapnelmagnet]

cant afford mtgo

As weird as it sounds, MTGO is, in my opinion, the best way to fully understand turns, the stack, and all the weird triggers. Duels is great for new players, but if you feel like you "get things" and want to really see how it plays out, MTGO really lays it out.

Of course, the interface is trying and offers no help.

You can get an account for 9.99 US and it comes with a bunch of commons / uncommons and some free phantom drafts (you don't keep the cards). You can build a shitty deck with free stuff and just battle in the Standard | New Player room. Even if you lose lots, it's a good way to see the game in such a structured way. It was for me, at least.

 

[A Serious Man]

MTGO is a harsh mistress but she will ensure that you have the stack, triggers, and phases down cold. It can be a bitter pill to swallow at first but if you really want to get better at the technical aspects of the game, MTGO is the best medicine out there.

 

[Ashodin]

My kalitas traitor of ghet foil jumped to 27.90 from 4. Something's up.

 

[kirblar]

That was never a 4 dollar foil.