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[Angry Grimace]

If this became a thing they do every set I'd just get worried that they'd think that this was a good replacement for a proper reprint strategy.

Here's the thing: the "proper reprint strategy" people keep asking about doesn't actually exist and wasn't forthcoming.

 

[Yeef]

We were actually talking, jokingly, about making Expeditions of all the worst cards you can think of. Search the City, Takklemaggot, Sorrow's Path, Wood Elemental, etc. We all had a good laugh, but I'm sure there's a subset of players that would love that sort of thing.

 

[red13th]

Wood Elemental is on the reserved list.

 

[Yeef]

Wood Elemental is on the reserved list.

Haha! Who would've guessed!

 

[red13th]

Haha! Who would've guessed!

I remember that fact because it's so ridiculous. :lol

 

[noquarter]

Hmm, hope they don't keep doing Expedition type sub sets too much. I like it a lot in Zendikar 2 because it is like an officially recognized sequel to the Hidden Treasures from the first set.

I just think they feel like a huge gimmick used to sell more cards that if they mess up or lose favor will affect WotC overall thoughts on the reception of a set. Or will make them think that shitty sets with good Expedition types sets are popular for more than just the sub set (BFZ). Probably don't have to worry about that, but the choices they make sometimes are really hard to understand.

Although if they did a full art Demonic Tutor in SoI Echoes (as a callback to the super Helvaults that some places got) I would be a little more excited.

 

[Hackworth]

I gotta say, Expeditions don't make much sense outside of Zendikar.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Hmm, hope they don't keep doing Expedition type sub sets too much. I like it a lot in Zendikar 2 because it is like an officially recognized sequel to the Hidden Treasures from the first set.

I just think they feel like a huge gimmick used to sell more cards that if they mess up or lose favor will affect WotC overall thoughts on the reception of a set. Or will make them think that shitty sets with good Expedition types sets are popular for more than just the sub set (BFZ). Probably don't have to worry about that, but the choices they make sometimes are really hard to understand.

Although if they did a full art Demonic Tutor in SoI Echoes (as a callback to the super Helvaults that some places got) I would be a little more excited.

I would like the idea a lot more if it was just random Innistrad themed cards as opposed to just Innistrad reprints. Like random Necropotence or Demonic Consultation or something. Make them illegal at CompREL (although I don't know how you'd do this since the pack would be down a card)

 

[SigmasonicX]

I would like the idea a lot more if it was just random Innistrad themed cards as opposed to just Innistrad reprints. Like random Necropotence or Demonic Consultation or something. Make them illegal at CompREL (although I don't know how you'd do this since the pack would be down a card)

From the Vault: 2spooky4me

 

[Angry Grimace]

I think Maro does himself a disservice when he answers questions like "why isn't Inquisition of Kozilek in Oath of the Gatewatch" and the answer is a nebulous "development issues" answer. When the same question was brought up for Lightning Helix they answered it by saying it was miserable with Snapcaster Mage in standard. This is a fine answer, just like "Jace, Telepath Unbound with Inquisition of Kozilek fucking sucked" would be.

 

[charlequin]

I don't know if it's been discussed here yet, but there's an interesting rumor floating around MTGS that WotC will be applying the "Expedition" strategy to a larger spread of cards in our return to Innistrad:

I think on net this is probably a good thing since it pulls down prices on Standard cards, but I'm skeptical that they'd go from trying out this concept to making it a regular feature without waiting to see responses first. It's also a weird thing to leak outside the context of anything else.

MTGS comments are hot trash as always.

I think Maro does himself a disservice when he answers questions like "why isn't Inquisition of Kozilek in Oath of the Gatewatch" and the answer is a nebulous "development issues" answer. When the same question was brought up for Lightning Helix they answered it by saying it was miserable with Snapcaster Mage in standard. This is a fine answer, just like "Jace, Telepath Unbound with Inquisition of Kozilek fucking sucked" would be.

Last time he answered one of these development questions I think he was actually wrong though, lol. I think the best answers we've gotten about development problems with reprints have been from tweeting at Sam Stoddard -- he went into some detail about Liliana, IIRC.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I mean, to the extent he doesn't explain it it makes it seem like he's throwing development under the bus like "I put it in blame those other guys." I don't think people really listen to members of the dev. team too much other than Maro, so if he's gonna answer the question he should probably figure out what the development problem was.

 

[The Technomancer]

I mean, to the extent he doesn't explain it it makes it seem like he's throwing development under the bus like "I put it in blame those other guys." I don't think people really listen to members of the dev. team too much other than Maro, so if he's gonna answer the question he should probably figure out what the development problem was.

Hm, I've never particularly taken it as a blame thing, but then I also don't have the investment in Standard or Modern reprints

 

[Ashodin]

I mean they said they'd announce it at the PT, so we've got next weekend.

 

[charlequin]

I mean, to the extent he doesn't explain it it makes it seem like he's throwing development under the bus like "I put it in blame those other guys." I don't think people really listen to members of the dev. team too much other than Maro, so if he's gonna answer the question he should probably figure out what the development problem was.

I both agree entirely with you that he should figure that out and be able to relay it from the Development team, and also think in practice we're still more likely to get a real answer by having kirblar bug Sam on Twitter.

Hm, I've never particularly taken it as a blame thing, but then I also don't have the investment in Standard or Modern reprints

Rosewater is careful not to just throw other people at the company completely under the bus even when they very obviously and visibly deserve it, which is a good thing, but that combined with his enthusiasm and the fact that (understandably) all his stories are very clearly from his own perspective winds up making a lot of stuff come off as passive-aggressive blame-shifting, I think.

 

[kirblar]

Sylvan Advocate feels like a mistake to me. (As does the 3rd toughness on Reflector Mage.)

Not because it's too good, but because there's a clear gap in power between the BFZ manlands and the OGW ones, and I'm wondering how much of that has to do with the mere existence of that card.

 

[OnPoint]

Sylvan Advocate feels like a mistake to me. (As does the 3rd toughness on Reflector Mage.)

Not because it's too good, but because there's a clear gap in power between the BFZ manlands and the OGW ones, and I'm wondering how much of that has to do with the mere existence of that card.

This would sincerely piss me off if that's the case.

 

[Infinite Stars]

I mean, I could maybe see an argument that FFL somehow became convinced that 19 Discard style spells in Standard would create a UB turbo Discard that turned the game into "Your opponent must play the card they draw each turn." Inquisition can effectively shut down their early game, and then you just keep hurting their hand.

Granted, it sounds insane, but FFL was testing a Prism Array Deck at one point before they got it tweaked.

Turn 1 Polluted Delta, Sac, Swamp, Inquisition. Pass(Cards in Graveyard:2)
Turn 2: Flooded Strand, Sac, Island, Jace, Pass(Cards in graveyard: 3)
Turn 3: Mire, Sac, Swamp, Duress, Tap Jace, flip Jace, flashback Inquisition, take their Turn 3 play.

It's super grindy, but it would be one of those awful decks to play against.

Sylvan Advocate feels like a mistake to me. (As does the 3rd toughness on Reflector Mage.)

Not because it's too good, but because there's a clear gap in power between the BFZ manlands and the OGW ones, and I'm wondering how much of that has to do with the mere existence of that card.

Ugh, that would legit get me upset. It's insane that my Stirring Wildwood can be a 3/4 with Reach for 3 Mana, but my Needle Spires requires 1 more Mana for worse stats(Yes, it has double strike, but it dies to Chandra's Ping)

 

[Ashodin]

I also agree that the Advocate probably made the man lands too strong, and they were nerfed powerlevel wise.

A Hissing Quagmire that's a 4/4 with deathtouch is brutal.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I keep feeling like Hissing Quagmire should be a 1/4 or something.

 

[Haines]

You guys have any good kb shortcuts for online?

 

[Angry Grimace]

You guys have any good kb shortcuts for online?

Don't press F6 unless your opponent is durdling and you are tapped out. Press F2 most of the time.

 

[bigkrev]

OK, why has Battle Screech gone from a 50 cent uncommon to a $3 card in a week?

It's not even a Modern card!

 

[Matriox]

OK, why has Battle Screech gone from a 50 cent uncommon to a $3 card in a week?

It's not even a Modern card!

Hmm.. Pauper I'm guessing?

Edit: it was printed as common in Vintage Masters, which allows it to be played in pauper. Not sure otherwise.

 

[bigkrev]

Hmm.. Pauper I'm guessing?

It's an Uncommon!

 

[Haines]

Don't press F6 unless your opponent is durdling and you are tapped out. Press F2 most of the time.

Am I to understand you stick with default key setup then?

 

[Lucario]

Hmm.. Pauper I'm guessing?

Edit: it was printed as common in Vintage Masters, which allows it to be played in pauper. Not sure otherwise.

Was never printed at common in paper, though. Not even sure it'd be legal in paper pauper, and none of the online versions went up.

Really weird card to spike. Maybe there just weren't many copies on tcgplayer and someone decided to start collecting them, lol.

 

[Hero]

Sylvan Advocate feels like a mistake to me. (As does the 3rd toughness on Reflector Mage.)

Not because it's too good, but because there's a clear gap in power between the BFZ manlands and the OGW ones, and I'm wondering how much of that has to do with the mere existence of that card.

It's a good thing we have good red burn spells to kill these things...

 

[Haines]

Watching lsv oath draft. Pretty interesting how a lot of his picks conflict what he says about the cards and how he always mentions white blue bias and surprise look what colors hes picking.

His deck is insane control and it looks way too slow and he's losing pretty hard game 1 lol

 

[divisionbyzorro]

The best draft video I've seen in weeks was the 8th Edition draft that LRR put up on MtgoAcademy. It's got it all - Stone Rain, Boil, Mana Clash - all the hits. Good clean Magic back before they didn't really know what they were doing but they were really close.

 

[charlequin]

Not because it's too good, but because there's a clear gap in power between the BFZ manlands and the OGW ones, and I'm wondering how much of that has to do with the mere existence of that card.

EFro says that Lumbering Falls is the worst Battle-block manland~

I also agree that the Advocate probably made the man lands too strong, and they were nerfed powerlevel wise.

The main reason this seems implausible to me is that Advocate is in the late set. If it was starting to look like it was too good with the manlands, especially when the first two were already set in stone at that point, they'd just nerf that one card instead of going in and hitting three others.

 

[Wulfric]

I would not be a fan of expeditions in SoI; they don't make sense lore wise, and expeditions are a callback to Priceless Treasures anyways.

I've been in a legacy mood as of late. Death and Taxes is surprisingly fun; it really takes locking your opponent down to another level. I'm heavily inclined towards selling my expeditions and foil Polluted Delta to pay for the mana base. Wasteland and Rishadan Port might as well be on the reserved list considering how nonexistent their reprint chances are.

 

[OnPoint]

Past in Flames FINALLY spiking. Christ it's taken long enough.

 

[Angry Grimace]

EFro says that Lumbering Falls is the worst Battle-block manland~



The main reason this seems implausible to me is that Advocate is in the late set. If it was starting to look like it was too good with the manlands, especially when the first two were already set in stone at that point, they'd just nerf that one card instead of going in and hitting three others.

I can see that pretty easily. It's activated ability is Treetop Village that costs 4 to use.

 

[noquarter]

I would not be a fan of expeditions in SoI; they don't make sense lore wise, and expeditions are a callback to Priceless Treasures anyways.

I've been in a legacy mood as of late. Death and Taxes is surprisingly fun; it really takes locking your opponent down to another level. I'm heavily inclined towards selling my expeditions and foil Polluted Delta to pay for the mana base. Wasteland and Rishadan Port might as well be on the reserved list considering how nonexistent their reprint chances are.

Rishadan Port is getting a reprint, judge foils anyways. Already have Karakas? That has been going up quite a bit past few years and saw a Judge print a couple years ago already. Really like Death and Taxes, has been one of my favorite decks to play but if you stop paying attention to the meta and show up, you could find yourself really lost. Relys on you knowing timing tricks and the opposing decks pretty well. So fun to play though if you do know all of that.

 

[charlequin]

Rishadan Port is getting a reprint, judge foils anyways. Already have Karakas? That has been going up quite a bit past few years and saw a Judge print a couple years ago already.

*checks price of original Legends Karakas*

*thinks again about the cards that vanished somewhere in three cross state moves*

*cries softly*

I can see that pretty easily. It's activated ability is Treetop Village that costs 4 to use.

Yeah I don't actually think Hexproof is all that great as a manland ability relative to a lot of the other options.

 

[kirblar]

I don't think it's Falls- the hexproof is more relevant than you'd think, blanking instant speed removals pretty big.

Fumarole is good solely cause it's a U/R manland- almost anything would be played. Spires seems worst to me.

 

[charlequin]

Fumarole is good solely cause it's a U/R manland- almost anything would be played. Spires seems worst to me.

I dunno, Spires is really great with anything like an Anthem effect (like, say, Gideon.) I think its upside is gonna be higher than Quagmire.

 

[Infinite Stars]

I don't think it's Falls- the hexproof is more relevant than you'd think, blanking instant speed removals pretty big.

Fumarole is good solely cause it's a U/R manland- almost anything would be played. Spires seems worst to me.

Yup, Spires is the worst Manland by far. Every other manland gets you decent stats if it was a creature(On top of, you know, being a land). Shambling Vents is a 2/3 Lifelinker for 3, Falls is a 3/3 Hexproof for 4, Quagmire is 2/2 Deathtouch for 3, and Fumarole is playable because UR land. Needle Spires is just awful. It's 4 Mana to animate for a 2/1 Doublestrike.

Like, you can compare these manlands to standard creatures recently and you'd see a fair advantage/disadvantages. Shambling Vents is akin to Lilliana. Quagmire is Heir to the Wilds. Lumbering Falls is bunch of different creatures hovering around 3-4 mana. Wandering Fumarole is unique and doesn't really have an easy comparison, but Needle Spires loses to a forgetable uncommon from Origins. It dies to basically any damage ability, which means you can be down 5 mana from one creature with no upside.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Link to StarCityGames Modern Classic tournament winners at bottom of this page, not using a direct link because there are brackets in the URL.

I was surprised by the inclusion of Viridian Corrupter in the winning Infect deck. I guess it makes sense in a world where Tron is the main threat.

The second place deck was plain old Scapshift, which I feel like I haven't seen in a while. Nice to see Commune with Lava in it.

I'm also generally surprised to see Ma and Pa Nalaar pop up in multiple top 16 decks.

 

[kirblar]

Scapeshift guy is good people.

Roomed w/ him and he lent me Underground Seas at a GA Invitational.

Then I promptly beat him with them round 1.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Lands that turn into creatures are overpowered by being lands that turn into creatures.

This standard is fucking horrible by the way. I'm tired of playing against four-color goodstuff.

 

[Etrian Oddity]

I don't think it's Falls- the hexproof is more relevant than you'd think, blanking instant speed removals pretty big.

Fumarole is good solely cause it's a U/R manland- almost anything would be played. Spires seems worst to me.

I've single-handedly killed UB control with Falls. Anything that lets me fuck over draw-go is good on my book.

 

[OnPoint]

This standard is fucking horrible by the way. I'm tired of playing against four-color goodstuff.

Gotta say I'm also pretty sick of seeing this manabase contort the format as well. I'm looking forward to there being some thicker lines drawn between archetypes in the future.

 

[Bandini]

Watching lsv oath draft. Pretty interesting how a lot of his picks conflict what he says about the cards and how he always mentions white blue bias and surprise look what colors hes picking.

His deck is insane control and it looks way too slow and he's losing pretty hard game 1 lol

I didn't like that draft. Too much control for the quality of his bombs. And then he moves into an Ally theme and starts doing things like taking extra copies of Comparative Analysis over Kor Scythemaster? Ugh.

 

[Firemind]

If only they reprinted Goblin Guide, Plated Geopede and Lightning Strike. Oath of Chandra is even worse than Volcanic Hammer. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

[OnPoint]

If only they reprinted Goblin Guide, Plated Geopede and Lightning Strike. Oath of Chandra is even worse than Volcanic Hammer. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Maybe but Atarka Red is good enough as it is. Honestly, with Zurgo in Standard, we all should have seen the lack of a reprint coming. How silly of us.

 

[Firemind]

Atarka Red is more of a combo deck though. It runs, what, 4 shocks to interact with opponent's creatures? In my days, red aggro was the ultimate troll deck. I miss Stone Rain...

 

[Santiako]

Atarka Red is more of a combo deck though. It runs, what, 4 shocks to interact with opponent's creatures? In my days, red aggro was the ultimate troll deck. I miss Stone Rain...

I used to run 4 Stone Rain, 4 Pillage, 4 Wasteland, 4 Ports, 4 Tangle Wires. Those were the days, just play a Jackal Pup and ride it to victory while your opponent can't do shit.

 

[OnPoint]

Atarka Red is more of a combo deck though. It runs, what, 4 shocks to interact with opponent's creatures? In my days, red aggro was the ultimate troll deck. I miss Stone Rain...

I thought we were seeing successful builds that weren't using the Become Immense combo though.