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Magic: the Gathering - Oath o/t Gatewatch |OT| Look again, the mana is now diamonds!

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Firemind

Member
I used to run 4 Stone Rain, 4 Pillage, 4 Wasteland, 4 Ports, 4 Tangle Wires. Those were the days, just play a Jackal Pup and ride it to victory while your opponent can't do shit.
For all the shit Mercadian Masques block got, it had some awesome cards.

I thought we were seeing successful builds that weren't using the Become Immense combo though.
It still requires creatures to be effective though and if you do it's usually a blowout. Old red aggro decks were very linear and therefore consistent; it even created the 20/20/20 rule at one point. the essence of the red deck was to keep the greedy, broken decks in check that didn't respect red. Faeries for example almost literally couldn't win; their best card, Bitterblossom, was now its Achilles' heel. Even Jund only had a 50/50 matchup at best when it was at its peak in Standard.

The four colour decks in today's Standard wouldn't have flourished as it had in the past if Wizards had actually supported red in BFZ and OGW. In my recollection, mono red has never dominated Standard, so I'm not sure what's holding R&D back. Maybe they didn't want red aggro to crush the durdly Eldrazi decks they were trying to push. idk ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
0-1 in another draft, I know my deck is horrible (knew my colours would get cut and then I drew chandra which I immediately wanted to play so made my deck even worse) but why do my opponents always get to curve out even when mulliganing to 5.

Negativity bias.

Are foil token generators worth more on average?

Edit: 0-3 Look 2 of these rounds were at least 90% my fault for missing way too many EOT cohorts and for forgetting Skitterskin can't block but that last round was just mean, my opponent and me were playing the same bomb (the +1/+1 cohort ally) but he drew his removal and I didn't draw mine and that was all there was to it. The 2nd game I was stuck on 1 mountain for at least 5 rounds excluding card draw with chandra in hand but alas I did eventually get to play some more chandra so that was nice. Almost reluctant to sell her since she's so much fun. I need a paper version for my mono red all noncreature ramp deck.
 

Daedardus

Member
Kirblar, got any recommendations for Modern singles before the Pro Tour begins? Or is it better to wait after all the heat has settled down?
 

OnPoint

Member
For all the shit Mercadian Masques block got, it had some awesome cards.


It still requires creatures to be effective though and if you do it's usually a blowout. Old red aggro decks were very linear and therefore consistent; it even created the 20/20/20 rule at one point. the essence of the red deck was to keep the greedy, broken decks in check that didn't respect red. Faeries for example almost literally couldn't win; their best card, Bitterblossom, was now its Achilles' heel. Even Jund only had a 50/50 matchup at best when it was at its peak in Standard.

The four colour decks in today's Standard wouldn't have flourished as it had in the past if Wizards had actually supported red in BFZ and OGW. In my recollection, mono red has never dominated Standard, so I'm not sure what's holding R&D back. Maybe they didn't want red aggro to crush the durdly Eldrazi decks they were trying to push. idk ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You're the one who called Atarka Red a combo deck lol I don't see how it's any more of a combo deck than most other stuff in Standard when you remove the Become Immense + Creature combo. And if we're going by that as a designation, then just about every deck ever is a "combo" deck.

To me, Atarka Red is Red Deck Wins. That's not really "combo" when it doesn't have the Become Immense/Battle Rage package (though those two cards plus a creature are technically a "combo"). It's usually more of a good stuff Red deck, and definitely is when you take out those two particular cards.

Anyway, I guess it depends on how you define "combo". Combo to me implies that a deck usually uses that particular interaction to win. Channel + Fireball. Lab Maniac + Doomsday. Splinter Twin + Pestermite. etc.
 

Haines

Banned
Watched some of kiblars drafts. And some of lsv last night.

Idk. This format feels hard to pin down unless you just go allies. People seem to feel its the safest bet, which im assuming is partial to the 3rd pack sucking unless your in allies.

If i do go to draft friday, kind of makes me want to ignore white black and let others fight over them when they get pulled in to those colors with the plentiful removal. And red is just agro which i dont play.

I wonder how good a realllly green deck is. Throw in some cololrless and touch of another color like blue for colorless ramp or black for the good gold cards.
 

Firemind

Member
You're the one who called Atarka Red a combo deck lol I don't see how it's any more of a combo deck than most other stuff in Standard when you remove the Become Immense + Creature combo. And if we're going by that as a designation, then just about every deck ever is a "combo" deck.

To me, Atarka Red is Red Deck Wins. That's not really "combo" when it doesn't have the Become Immense/Battle Rage package (though those two cards plus a creature are technically a "combo"). It's usually more of a good stuff Red deck, and definitely is when you take out those two particular cards.

Anyway, I guess it depends on how you define "combo". Combo to me implies that a deck usually uses that particular interaction to win. Channel + Fireball. Lab Maniac + Doomsday. Splinter Twin + Pestermite. etc.
You don't need Atarka's Command to win; you can win with just 1/1s and 2/2s, but I imagine your win percentages exponentially go up the more Commands you draw. Usually you cast it the turn you win; it's not like it does much else.

People say Modern burn is a combo deck, which while not 100% true, has some truth in it because it plays Lava Spikes and Atarka's Commands, cards that do not interact with your opponent's permanents. The classic red aggro decks were really just tempo decks that had burn as a way to close games. These decks wouldn't want Lava Spikes, because it doesn't provide any tempo. You played cards that could kill Llanowar Elves and Birds of Paradise or destroy/tap their lands. Because of the power creep of creatures over the last decade, mono red couldn't really deal with creatures anymore; it took cards like Searing Blaze/Blood to remain relevant. And when those cards and the likes of Lightning Strike disappeared, red had to go another avenue: the explosive kind with no real endgame. Just compare the R/W Burn deck from RtR/Theros to Atarka Red. Completely different strategies.
 

bigkrev

Member
Oral history of Pro Tour 1-http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/ways-play/oral-history-first-pro-tour-2016-02-02

My favorite article on the Mothership in ages
 
Watched some of kiblars drafts. And some of lsv last night.

Idk. This format feels hard to pin down unless you just go allies. People seem to feel its the safest bet, which im assuming is partial to the 3rd pack sucking unless your in allies.

If i do go to draft friday, kind of makes me want to ignore white black and let others fight over them when they get pulled in to those colors with the plentiful removal. And red is just agro which i dont play.

I wonder how good a realllly green deck is. Throw in some cololrless and touch of another color like blue for colorless ramp or black for the good gold cards.

No matter what black and whit will be cut hard but you should probably still go for one of them.

I think UR really only works if you both get a really good draft and get the nutdraws subsequently

Allies have the best payoff in BFZ both for red white and green and any combination thereof.

Black gets great removal in the form of complete disregard.

Blue gets shafted mostly imo unless you get Guardian of Tazeem.

Green, red and white are great if you're in allies. I feel like the fight spell is much better now than it was in triple BFZ.




My current RW allies deck, I must say it can be quite gross. Moneydrafted the ref mages but realized they can be such tempo plays so I splashed jeskai. 2 RW lands help sadly mage isn't an ally.

0Mowbel.png
 

Wulfric

Member
Would someone be a dear and explain the utility of Aether Vial? I see it as a fancy mana rock, though I know it's a bit more complicated than that. Does the fact that creatures are put onto the field rather than cast make it that much more useful?

Watched some of kiblars drafts. And some of lsv last night.

Idk. This format feels hard to pin down unless you just go allies. People seem to feel its the safest bet, which im assuming is partial to the 3rd pack sucking unless your in allies.

If i do go to draft friday, kind of makes me want to ignore white black and let others fight over them when they get pulled in to those colors with the plentiful removal. And red is just agro which i dont play.

I wonder how good a realllly green deck is. Throw in some cololrless and touch of another color like blue for colorless ramp or black for the good gold cards.


Allies is easy enough in R/W. They don't wheel though, that's for sure. Why rule out red entirely? At my LGS, Expedite wheels pretty often and I abuse that if red is open. It's not particularly fast in OGW draft. If anything, green got better with OGW. Elemental Uprising and Saddleback Lagac have gotten me out of trouble quite a bit.
 

OnPoint

Member
Would someone be a dear and explain the utility of Aether Vial? I see it as a fancy mana rock, though I know it's a bit more complicated than that. Does the fact that creatures are put onto the field rather than cast make it that much more useful?.

Can be done at instant speed and is uncounterable by normal counter magic.
 

ultron87

Member
Would someone be a dear and explain the utility of Aether Vial? I see it as a fancy mana rock, though I know it's a bit more complicated than that. Does the fact that creatures are put onto the field rather than cast make it that much more useful?

The main utilities beyond the obvious mana savings are that creatures you play with it:

A) Can't be countered
B) Come into play at Instant speed (helpful with stuff like Flickerwisp)
C) Can be played ignoring taxing effects or additional costs (see Silvergill Adept)
 
Makindi Patrol + Spawnbinder Mage is disgusting fyi. Let me swing with everything and still tap down your biggest blocker.

Curving any 2 drop into Makindi Patrol into Spawnbinder into Resolute Blademaster Mwahahaha.
 

Haines

Banned
Makindi Patrol + Spawnbinder Mage is disgusting fyi. Let me swing with everything and still tap down your biggest blocker.

Curving any 2 drop into Makindi Patrol into Spawnbinder into Resolute Blademaster Mwahahaha.

Exactly why everyone rushes into allies, the synergies are so plentiful, something will always catch your eye.

Just watched marshalls draft. If anyone doubts how hard allies pulls people in with its abundance of cards, check it out. Its absolutely disgusting and just proves how much the 3rd pack will back it up.

I like the idea of the red blue surge deck but unless you really see it being open and get almsot gifted it, id be scared of not getting there and having a mess of cards.
 
I went 4 colours in a GP Van Draft, and it was hilariousy how much easier Converge is to pull off in Oath then BFZ. Sure, you have to be drafting lands a bit higher then most, but I had all 5 colours ready fairly easily. I went 0-1, but I had no Mana issues(Minus bad sequencing on my part in Game 1/2).
 
Oral history of Pro Tour 1-http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/ways-play/oral-history-first-pro-tour-2016-02-02

My favorite article on the Mothership in ages

Some quotes
[On why making a Pro Tour was a good idea]
Richard: Obviously Magic was super-successful, but it was still in this turbulent non-stabilized state. I very much believed in this idea that if you took a game seriously that would help all levels of the game. The example that was used was that of basketball. The existence of the NBA didn't make it so that everybody's games are all super serious and exclude people who didn't participate in the NBA.

--

Richard: When Ice Age came out, there were early posts analyzing the set, and they said there were only two good cards in the set. This is an unbelievably bad result for someone who's been working on the set for years and years. You look at that you just think, "This is ridiculous," with putting all this time, and in the end there were two cards that are of interest to people because they wanted to play with all these old, powerful cards. If we were in the business of selling cards to people, we were going to run out of cards sooner than we wanted. But if we were in the business of selling environments, we could make a new environment whenever we want. That's basically where the game was before the Pro Tour came around.

--

Mark: We wanted to name the Pro Tour, and one of the first things we came up with was "The Black Lotus Pro Tour." We sent out postcards announcing it, and we later learned that the lotus had connotations in some foreign markets that were not good. It is symbolic of drug trafficking in Asia, for example. We were just calling it the Magic: The Gathering Pro Tour internally, and eventually that stuck.

Richard: The main thing was that there were a lot of design issues. As far as designing the way the tournament would work at the time—payouts, what would happen if people took too long playing, and so on—that was hard work, but it was minor compared to politically getting the company on board with it. Because if it [didn't] have the support of the company and a unified vision coming from them, then it wasn't going to work.

I remember a board meeting in those days with people talking about how to get in touch with what the players wanted. I suggested we could hire the players, and most of the people at the board meeting laughed. It just showed such a huge lack of respect for the people buying the product. All this political stuff had to be overcome. For me, this was the [most pressing] of the difficulties we faced.

--

While it was still pretty common for tournaments to be held using what would now be considered Vintage as the default format, the format for that first Pro Tour was a modified version of Standard—or, as it was known at the time, Type 2. For this tournament, players build their decks including at least five cards from each set that was legal in the format: Fourth Edition, Chronicles, Ice Age, Fallen Empires, and Homelands.

Mark: The whole point of the Pro Tour is that it's a marketing vehicle. We want to be aspirational, but we were also trying to get them to focus on what the latest sets were going to be. Obviously right now Pro Tours are named after the new set that's just come out. Our problem was that the latest set to come out right before that first Pro Tour was Homelands....

--

In the early days of the Pro Tour, the field was broken up into two divisions: Seniors and Juniors. The Junior Division was held on an entirely different floor of the building that housed that first tournament. While the Seniors were cutting to a Top 16, the Juniors cut to a Top 8. Also all the prize money for Juniors was paid out in the form of college scholarships.

Skaff: I know this sounds almost quaint now, but at the time it was very controversial to put money on tournaments. You could put all sorts of other prizes, but you very rarely saw straight cash payouts. We wanted to not get on the bad side of parents, and it felt like that could happen if we put cash on the Juniors. So the prizes for the Juniors at the first Pro Tour weren't cash, they were scholarships. For the whole Junior tour they were managed as scholarships. There was a bit of marketing there, and we wanted the right emphasis for kids. We wanted to encourage kids to go to college.

Graham: I almost didn't go to college, because I already knew I wanted to work in the wine industry and I had a fair amount of experience. It was because I had that $12,000 scholarship—which essentially paid for all my tuition and books—that I was able to go to community college in Santa Barbara and then UCSB. It's pretty incredible that it worked out that way. It was really awesome.

Richard: Wow, that's cool!

Skaff: Honestly that makes me feel so good. That is exactly what we wanted to happen. We were all nerds growing up and we felt bad that people with hand-eye coordination and muscles could get scholarships. There are just not the amount of academic scholarships that there are for sports. We really wanted people to be able to take their hobby—which is essentially what you do with baseball or basketball—and have that equivalent for intellectual sports. We wanted more respect for intellectual pursuits.

--

Mark: When Magic first came out, Richard Garfield's vision for the game was one of discovery. Richard didn't want information put out, he wanted people to discover Magic cards in the wild. So for the first year or year and a half, people were super secretive about what was in a deck. I covered Worlds in 1995 and I wasn't allowed to list the decks. I did play-by-play, and I showed what was in their hands, but we didn't tell you their whole decks. At this tournament not only were we going to tell you, but we were going to print [commemorative copies of] the decks so you could buy them—you could play them. That was a very different approach from how we handled Magic in the past.

Richard: By the time we were doing the Pro Tour, I had completely given up on that idea already. I think it [lasted] a year maybe where it was a real part of the game, and I took immense satisfaction when lists would come out in magazines or online that were incomplete or incorrect because people had to do all the research on their own. My memory is, which again could be fuzzy, that after about a year it was clear that the idea of people discovering things in that way was impossible and they wanted to get the answer. I had given up on [my previous vision].

In the beginning, the way I imagined Magic being played was with people buying one deck, having some fun, and then maybe buying another deck. Then maybe mixing and matching them. I didn't anticipate people buying more than four or five decks. If everyone in your group only bought four to five, there was going to be this process of exploration. That play group of eight people wouldn't even see all the cards, they're not even gonna all be there. It was pretty clear, pretty early, that this is not how it was going to go down. And I embraced that reality.

--

Skaff: We had these sports marketing people from the beginning telling us we were crazy if we didn't make it all single-elimination, but we were confident that we wanted Swiss for two reasons. One, it is more skill-testing. It gives people more play. You don't want to drive six hours in that snowstorm and lose in the first round. So we knew we wanted Swiss, but you have this strong pressure of wanting single-elimination. Single-elimination is very easy for people to understand. It is crystal clear and every game is exciting and nail-biting. We wanted a combo of those two...so we just did it. We are sort of proud of that format. It has become the standard for Magic stuff, but you see it in other places too now.

--

Mark: Skaff had it in his mind that it had to be in New York City. He also really wanted the Pro Tour to start in February, but he never seemed to piece together that it snows in February in New York City.

Jon: It was the blizzard of '96—how could you forget the blizzard of '96? I probably drove in—at the time I lived really close to the Holland Tunnel. My car was this old Mitsubishi Mirage hatchback that was definitely not optimized for winter driving. I'd drive the car to PTQs and $1,000 tournaments all over the place, and there must have been a 20% chance that I got into an accident, but somehow I always came out on the right side of it. I min-crashed with it.

Elaine: There had already been two huge blizzards, including the blizzard that dumped two feet of snow in New York. Then the Pro Tour happens and there's this third blizzard with another ten-plus inches. We nearly didn't make it to the city, our car was slipping and sliding all over the place. Once we got there, all of Manhattan was closed. Try to picture Manhattan with no cars, with nobody going anywhere; it was the most insane thing ever.

--

Michael: The first night we got there...we were partying pretty hard. I'll never forget this, though: Richard Garfield, who at the time was kind of a big deal, was there and I had never met him. We were all practicing in the hallways of the hotel and I'd had a few too many drinks. I went up to him and I said, "Hey Richard! I'm Michael Loconto and I'm gonna see you Sunday when I win this thing!"

And then after it was all said and done and I'm standing there with him, he was shaking his head saying, "I can't believe you actually won." We used to have a really good time when we played.

--

Graham: There were a lot of little kids there. It felt like maybe there were fifteen of us that were actually competing in the tournament. It was just unfair that a twelve-year-old had to play a seventeen-year-old, you know? The fact that I had a Necropotence deck and I was given that playing field? My entire match would be done in ten or twelve minutes.

I do remember judges laughing when I played Demonic Consultation for the first time. I was like "Okay, laugh all you want." They certainly weren't laughing at the end. I remember an incredible number of fast matches. I remember losing to this guy who played Karma [in his main deck]. That was my only loss. I had to have a judge question if that was seriously in his [main] deck and the judge said it was.

--

Skaff: Once the tournament started, I don't remember very much. I had been called up to the Juniors several times. Finkel was crying, and I had to take care of that.

Jon: Ten minutes after I won my first round, there were three cards sitting on our table. I had been Jester's Capped in Game 2 and our match went to three games. The judge asked me if they were my cards. I said they were, and I got a game loss for Game 3. I had won the match—those cards could've been there for any number of reasons. I threw what could charitably be called a tantrum. It definitely involved crying—I'm glad there was no video. That's actually how I met Skaff, I was demanding my money back and stuff. They calmed me down, but I still think that game loss was kinda [unfair].

--

Graham: I played the final match against a White Weenie deck played by Aaron Kline. That was a really tough match, and I topdecked a couple times to save my [bacon]. I remember topdecking a Nevinyrral's Disk to win. That was gnarly.

They told us to play slow and explain everything. I was always a very fast Magic player. I felt like if I played too slow I might lose my natural instinct for the game. I remember at one point they announced that Aaron had won the match. We didn't really communicate when it happened. I was gonna kill him the next turn, but he had Karma out. I had a Zuran Orb and could sacrifice my lands to gain life. I looked at him and he said "Yeah I get it." I just swept up all my cards and so did he. They just thought he had won. I would have died to Karma if I didn't sacrifice any lands, but I could just sacrifice all my lands—it didn't matter—[and] I was about to kill him.

At any Pro Tour after that, you would've had to be very specific about what you were doing—about every step. Aaron was nice enough to say "Yes, you're totally not gonna die to Karma while you have the Zuran Orb out." I think about that moment a lot. I should've been more professional, but I was a kid. It was just this minute of confusion where all the people thought that he won. He would've won the tournament with that game, but we went the full five games.

Michael: My deck used Millstones to run people out of cards. It was mainly defensive with lots of board wipes: Wrath of God, Swords to Plowshares (thank God for Swords), and Balance. You had Blinking Spirits and Mishra's Factories to block all their stuff. I was just trying to make the games last as long as I could and hopefully run [my opponents] out of cards.

I remember at the end it was gonna be a best-of-seven match for the finals and the deck just took way too long. I don't think they ever expected that kind of thing. They brought me and Bertrand in after—I think I lost the first game and won the second game—and said it was super late and they didn't rent the venue for long enough. They needed to have a winner. They said we could just split the money and play one game for the title. That's how it went.

Graham: Oh my God! Is that what happened—they went from best-of-seven to best-of-three? Ours was nothing like that, we finished all five games!

--

Mark: They both understood that this was the first Pro Tour and they both wanted to be the guy that won it. On top of that—people don't remember this—but Bertrand Lestree played in the World Championship and lost to Zak Dolan in the finals. On paper Bertrand was supposed to win that match, but Zak won that one. He did not want to become the guy who also lost in the finals of the first-ever Pro Tour. He was going to take his time. They were playing slow, slow decks to start with, and they just didn't want to make any mistakes. Originally we were gonna play best-of-seven, but then after five hours we decided it was gonna be best-of-three.

--

Mark: Necropotence got a one-star rating in Inquest magazine. What was interesting about the tournament was Graham Tatomer obviously wins with the Necro deck and Leon Lindbeck makes the Top 8 with it—a really early version of the deck. It wasn't until that summer that that deck really took off.

Richard: I don't remember if we knew exactly how powerful that card was, but I knew it didn't surprise me. My design philosophy in those days was that if you didn't make a few banned cards, you weren't being aggressive enough. You had to be taking chances. My philosophy was give the players lots of interesting tools and let them play with those tools. My philosophy of discovery regarding the cards had gone by the wayside, but the discovery of combinations was very much a part of the game. Players are constantly finding new ways to combine cards in the game that we didn't anticipate.

--

Richard: The experience of going to events, where people were excited to meet me, have me sign cards, and play with me, was not new. I'd been doing that for a few years—but the tenor here was changing, because this was the first time that I felt like the players were starting to become really good and were taking the game really seriously. On the surface this was very much like all those previous meetings, but I felt like something had changed. Before the Pro Tour I could go in any card shop and beat most of the players with an all-commons deck. It was ridiculous. Then the Pro Tour came around and I couldn't walk into a card shop and beat everybody with an all-commons deck anymore.

Also, April Friday Night Magic promo
aI5ATVHfWK.png
 
Makindi Patrol + Spawnbinder Mage is disgusting fyi. Let me swing with everything and still tap down your biggest blocker.

Curving any 2 drop into Makindi Patrol into Spawnbinder into Resolute Blademaster Mwahahaha.
Yeah that was one of the interactions I brought up when Kirblar said there was no synergy between the sets.

So good.
 

Bandini

Member
Man, it really sucks how expensive Scalding Tarns are. I have all the cards other than those and Serum Visions for a Jeskai Modern deck, and my Snapcasters and Pyromancers have needed a home for too long.

Maybe I could get away with using some combination of Polluted Delta and Bloodstained Mire?
 
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";194052878]Yeah that was one of the interactions I brought up when Kirblar said there was no synergy between the sets.

So good.[/QUOTE]

Also 3 Zada's commandos with Hemorrhage, Reproach and Tandem Tactics. I dare you making favourable blocks.

Hah Hearthstone just introduced Standard, literally.

Lol 1 General Tazri pack 1, a foil general Tazri pack 2 and Reckless Bushwacker being the most noteworthy ally to fetch am cry
 

Wulfric

Member
Wow, it's crazy just how wild west the Magic scene was in the 90s. I wish I had been around to experience those days. Nowadays there doesn't seem to be uncharted territory or mystery. I can walk into any LGS in the world and play against the same standard decks. Having every local meta dependent on the stock of singles and boosters in the region seems positively quaint compared to today.
 

OnPoint

Member
Yo what if this was a card:

Peaceful Guy WW

Creature - Human

Defender
If a creature blocked by Peaceful Guy
would assign trample damage, prevent
that damage and gain that much life
instead.

0/1​

I would love this card haha
 
Yo what if this was a card:

Peaceful Guy WW

Creature - Human

Defender
If a creature blocked by Peaceful Guy
would assign trample damage, prevent
that damage and gain that much life
instead.

0/1​

I would love this card haha


But he would die as soon as he blocked. At least give him Protection from Creatures with Trample.

Or, probably more elegantly, just Protection from Creatures.
 

Yeef

Member
Yo what if this was a card:

Peaceful Guy WW

Creature - Human

Defender
If a creature blocked by Peaceful Guy
would assign trample damage, prevent
that damage and gain that much life
instead.

0/1​

I would love this card haha
They could just assign all the damage to Peaceful Guy.

Also, "Trmaple Damage" doesn't have any rules meaning.
 
Would it work like this?

"Whenever Peaceful Guy blocks a creature with trample, Peaceful Guy gets +0/+X where X is difference between the creatures strength and Peaceful Guy's toughness.
"Whenever Peaceful Guy would be dealt damage by a creature with trample, prevent that damage and gain that much life instead."
 

bigkrev

Member
Why would they? I don't know anything about HS for the record.

Suddenly, cards they have spent time and money aquiring are no longer going to be used in the most popular format. This is something that is only normal to you because Magic has been doing it for over 20 years. People aren't used to sweeping format changes.
 

Lucario

Member
Why would they? I don't know anything about HS for the record.

Blizzard is making Standard the only supported format for major tournaments, I think.

They're also removing the old expansions from the store, making it impossible to get the old cards without crafting them. I haven't played in ages, but crafting was not a fast way to get cards. It'd take multiple months of dedicated play to get enough dust to build a deck.
 

bigkrev

Member
Would it work like this?

"Whenever Peaceful Guy blocks a creature with trample, Peaceful Guy gets +0/+X where X is difference between the creatures strength and Peaceful Guy's toughness.
"Whenever Peaceful Guy would be dealt damage by a creature with trample, prevent that damage and gain that much life instead."

I think Serene master is a far more elegent design that does just about everything your card does
Image.ashx
 

Daedardus

Member
Suddenly, cards they have spent time and money aquiring are no longer going to be used in the most popular format. This is something that is only normal to you because Magic has been doing it for over 20 years. People aren't used to sweeping format changes.

Looking at Modern prices, they could do something like that too, couldn't they?


Blizzard is making Standard the only supported format for major tournaments, I think.

They're also removing the old expansions from the store, making it impossible to get the old cards without crafting them. I haven't played in ages, but crafting was not a fast way to get cards. It'd take multiple months of dedicated play to get enough dust to build a deck.

Oh I see. Then the problem lies mostly within not offering support of an Eternal format and limiting the availability of older digital goods, which is a weird reasoning, it doesn't cost them anything to produce them.
 
Would it work like this?

"Whenever Peaceful Guy blocks a creature with trample, Peaceful Guy gets +0/+X where X is difference between the creatures strength and Peaceful Guy's toughness.
"Whenever Peaceful Guy would be dealt damage by a creature with trample, prevent that damage and gain that much life instead."

"Whenever [card] blocks a creature, that creature loses trample until end of turn.

If [card] would be dealt combat damage, instead prevent that damage and gain that much life."
 

aidan

Hugo Award Winning Author and Editor
In semi-related news, Hearthstone just announced a new format: Standard.

You’ll play Standard using a deck built solely from a pool of cards that were released in the current and previous calendar year, along with a core foundation of the Basic and Classic card sets (which will always be valid for Standard).

Edit: Nevermind. Late.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Oh I see. Then the problem lies mostly within not offering support of an Eternal format and limiting the availability of older digital goods, which is a weird reasoning, it doesn't cost them anything to produce them.

Kirblar thinks its for personal investment reasons, sorta similar to the reserved list. I think that the subtext is that they just want Wild as a format to not really exist so they don't have to deal with the public dialogue around "man Wild sucks everything is unbalanced"
 

Daedardus

Member
Kirblar thinks its for personal investment reasons, sorta similar to the reserved list. I think that the subtext is that they just want Wild as a format to not really exist so they don't have to deal with the public dialogue around "man Wild sucks everything is unbalanced"

And we all know how much we Magic players like the Reserved List right now.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
And we all know how much we Magic players like the Reserved List right now.

Well okay so the reserved list might be a bad comparison. Its essentially artificially creating "print runs" for Hearthstone. A better comparison is that, even without the reserved list, you would feel good about owning powerful cards from Alpha/Beta because they were rare and important. In a digital game that sells all packs forever there's nothing special about owning old powerful cards
 

Haines

Banned
Hearthstone finally got a whole lot better. Thank god.

They also mentioned finally nerfing cards. Thank god blizzard finally wrapped there head around making the game what it deserves to be. It wont ever be magic, but god damn this isexactly what they needed to do. I dont understand cycling out adventures, but maybe ill find an explanation somehwere.

Standard format.
Deckslots.
Balances.

magic online just got a tons more pressure.
 

Daedardus

Member
It's not a reserved list, it's just them going out of print and becoming more expensive. You can still craft the cards.

What do you have to do to craft cards? Is it solely a grindy game? Or is there money involved?

Well okay so the reserved list might be a bad comparison. Its essentially artificially creating "print runs" for Hearthstone. A better comparison is that, even without the reserved list, you would feel good about owning powerful cards from Alpha/Beta because they were rare and important. In a digital game that sells all packs forever there's nothing special about owning old powerful cards

The question you have the ask then if it is needed to feel special about owning old powerful cards. Powerful cards will remain powerful cards, but I think I game like Hearthstone can bank more on the playability fact rather than the collecting aspect. While it's certainly true that collecting cards can be a nice thing and that it has some psychological value, I feel like being able to play is much more rewarding than owning some bits and bytes on a server in some random data center.

Hearthstone finally got a whole lot better. Thank god.

They also mentioned finally nerfing cards. Thank god blizzard finally wrapped there head around making the game what it deserves to be. It wont ever be magic, but god damn this isexactly what they needed to do.

Standard format.
Deckslots.
Balances.

magic online just got a tons more pressure.

So they alter exisiting cards? Not sure how I would feel about that. Feels a dangerous precedent for collecting certain cards.
 
Help me with this deck:

Creatures
4 monastery swiftspear
3 Zurgo Helmsmasher
4 Dragon Fodder
4 Abbot of Keral Keep
4 Reckless Bushwacker
4 Monastery Mentor

Spells
4 Silkwrap
4 Wild Slash
4 Titan's Strength
4 Expedite

Lands
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
4 Needle Spires
4 Crumbling Vestige
4 Battlefield Forge
3 Plains
9 Mountain

Sideboard
4 Hallowed Moonlight
4 Arashin Cleric
3 Roast
4 Thought-Knot Seer
 
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";194072282]Help me with this deck:

Creatures
4 monastery swiftspear
3 Zurgo Helmsmasher
4 Dragon Fodder
4 Abbot of Keral Keep
4 Reckless Bushwacker
4 Monastery Mentor

Spells
4 Silkwrap
4 Wild Slash
4 Titan's Strength
4 Expedite

Lands
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
4 Needle Spires
4 Crumbling Vestige
4 Battlefield Forge
3 Plains
9 Mountain

Sideboard
4 Hallowed Moonlight
4 Arashin Cleric
3 Roast
4 Thought-Knot Seer[/QUOTE]

needs more blue
 
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