Simply Sarah
Member
Let's at least let the PT happen before deciding the sky is falling with the combo.
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Magic: the Gathering |OT10| Aether Revolt - That shit that make your Soul Burn slow
- Thread starter SigmasonicX
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Let's at least let the PT happen before deciding the sky is falling with the combo.
There are 2 combo's I know of right now
Here are the decks That are straight busted and all of them feel more like combo's than they do.
Aetherworks Marvel - Untaps turn 4, plays marvel cast's Emrakul the Promised end to Win the game.
Saheeli Rai + Felidar Guardian - Control deck that can wait till they have negate backup to just win the game, and counter your pieces of Removal.
Supposedly there is a "Cheerio's" Deck with Sream.
And I came across another deck today that went, Consul's Dreadnaught for 1, Heart of Kiran on 2, Turn 3 start your engines, turn 4 use the 4 mana "enchant vehicle, it gets +3+0 and a creature.
So what you're saying is pack some Blessed Alliance.
Man this standard is going to be WEIRD.
Hope of Ghirapur is literally gonna be the card that saves a lot of decks from combo shenanigans, I bet.
I took a look at all the burn, and Collective Defiance is one of the best answers to the Saheeli combo. It can deal 3 to an opponent or 4 to a creature. It's a sorcery so dispel can't hit it.
Also thalia does nothing since they just kill it.
It is a control deck, that you can NEVER tap out for.
It has instant speed Card draw in Glimmer of Genius
It has Instant Speed Removal in Harnessed Lightning
It Has inevitability in things like Torrential Gearhulk
It plays Main deck Negate
It has a ton of counterspells in the sideboard (Dispel, Void Shatter, Disallow)
It takes 0 skill to play, and theres already a decklist out there. for it, or at least every deck I've played looks the same.
It is a control deck, that you can NEVER tap out for.
It has instant speed Card draw in Glimmer of Genius
It has Instant Speed Removal in Harnessed Lightning
It Has inevitability in things like Torrential Gearhulk
It plays Main deck Negate
It has a ton of counterspells in the sideboard (Dispel, Void Shatter, Disallow)
It takes 0 skill to play, and theres already a decklist out there. for it, or at least every deck I've played looks the same.
Read hope of ghirapur again, ghirapur HAS to deal combat damage before you can sacrifice it,
Well I mean are they going to have flyers after Turn 1? They'll have to throw removal at it instead of other targets. It still does its job somewhat.
I just got home from FNM, doing brewing of the new stuff into my deck. So far I've got Sram and Hope in there, as well as Heart of Kiran.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I did fulfill a lifelong wish of mine today. I made someone exile their own spell with spellqueller. I used a stasis snare to exile it then used paradoxical outcome to return it to my hand all while a glimmer of genius of his was on the stack.
I've seen some mardu vehicle lists splash the combo. After game 1 I boarded all the counters in and then died on turn 5
I've seen some mardu vehicle lists splash the combo. After game 1 I boarded all the counters in and then died on turn 5
Friday (midnight), Saturday and Sunday next weekend.
Here's what I got so far on my RW Equipment. It goes SUPER low to the ground now. I think you have to, so you can get through all these crazy combo decks.
3 of each of the utility creatures seems about right for consistency, as well as 2 Heart of Kiran to consistently have a 2 drop vehicle on turn 2. Stitcher's Graft + Always Watching combo is in. Worth noting that tapping a creature to crew does NOT stop it from untapping the turn after.
Congrats. You can die fulfilled now.
I just thought of something but ......
Wizard's say's that Counterspell for UU is too strong in standard
That Path to Exile is too efficient for Standard
That a G mana; mana dork is too powerful for standard
and that Lightning Bolt for R is too powerful for standard
Yet In the last 2 fucking blocks theyve created 2 decks that effectively end the game on turn 4.... last I checked mana dorks weren't causing the GAME TO END ON TURN 4. Hypocrites
Wizard's say's that Counterspell for UU is too strong in standard
That Path to Exile is too efficient for Standard
That a G mana; mana dork is too powerful for standard
and that Lightning Bolt for R is too powerful for standard
Yet In the last 2 fucking blocks theyve created 2 decks that effectively end the game on turn 4.... last I checked mana dorks weren't causing the GAME TO END ON TURN 4. Hypocrites
yeah I don't have much faith that things are going to get better anytime soon.
SigmasonicX
Member
Going over stuff already covered in the thread:
* Lack of graveyard hate is disappointing.
* The fact that they included an infinite combo in Standard again is silly, but I suspect this will be a dud like Jeskai Ascendancy turned out to be. For one thing, in response to Felidar Guardinan flickering Saheeli, you can just Shock her.
Fleet Modification - I didn't expect there to be another card to match Siege Modification, and then for there to be only two.
Caught in the Brights - As noted, this is great flavor.
Thopter Arrest - Seems potentially Constructed playable.
Take into Custody - I was surprised to see this effect has never appeared on its own as a spell before.
Daring Demolition - Even if the entire point is for it to become a creature, it's weird to see black be able to destroy a noncreature artifact.
Foundry Hornet - Oh hey, it looks like hornets have moved from green to black.
Gonti's Machinations - This is weird, and probably isn't good.
Perilous Predicament - AKA hopefully target player sacrifices a vehicle and the creature crewing it.
Chandra's Revolution - Oh hey, land tapping is back. This seems decent in Limited, but you know, when land tapping was introduced in red, I was kind of expecting there to be enough to make a red control deck. This and that vampire don't exactly help with that. Also, weird how this doesn't connect with Pia's Revolution at all.
Gremlin Infestation - This is pretty weird. It's best viewed as a way to deal 2 damage every turn, with a minor benefit if they get rid of the artifact.
Invigorated Rampage - This seems like a nice pump spell. I like the versatility.
Narnam Renegade - This seems pretty good.
Natural Obsolescence - Likely to see sideboard play?
Prey Upon - Yeah, get that goat thing!
Daredevil Dragster - The entire first ability is weird.
Filigree Crawler - It's cute how this is a caterpillar that turns into a thopter.
* Lack of graveyard hate is disappointing.
* The fact that they included an infinite combo in Standard again is silly, but I suspect this will be a dud like Jeskai Ascendancy turned out to be. For one thing, in response to Felidar Guardinan flickering Saheeli, you can just Shock her.
Fleet Modification - I didn't expect there to be another card to match Siege Modification, and then for there to be only two.
Caught in the Brights - As noted, this is great flavor.
Thopter Arrest - Seems potentially Constructed playable.
Take into Custody - I was surprised to see this effect has never appeared on its own as a spell before.
Daring Demolition - Even if the entire point is for it to become a creature, it's weird to see black be able to destroy a noncreature artifact.
Foundry Hornet - Oh hey, it looks like hornets have moved from green to black.
Gonti's Machinations - This is weird, and probably isn't good.
Perilous Predicament - AKA hopefully target player sacrifices a vehicle and the creature crewing it.
Chandra's Revolution - Oh hey, land tapping is back. This seems decent in Limited, but you know, when land tapping was introduced in red, I was kind of expecting there to be enough to make a red control deck. This and that vampire don't exactly help with that. Also, weird how this doesn't connect with Pia's Revolution at all.
Gremlin Infestation - This is pretty weird. It's best viewed as a way to deal 2 damage every turn, with a minor benefit if they get rid of the artifact.
Invigorated Rampage - This seems like a nice pump spell. I like the versatility.
Narnam Renegade - This seems pretty good.
Natural Obsolescence - Likely to see sideboard play?
Prey Upon - Yeah, get that goat thing!
Daredevil Dragster - The entire first ability is weird.
Filigree Crawler - It's cute how this is a caterpillar that turns into a thopter.
Infinite Stars
Member
No, but you don't get it. Dorks are literally hell incarnate, because they accelerate the game and get too much value. Nevermind that no one has ever bitched about a Dork, they're bad for the game. They're not as fair as a 2 Generic Mana 3/3 Flying Looting Scooter, or a Mindslaver effect stapled to a 13/13. Those are totally fair.
T
Transhuman
Unconfirmed Member
I have a chaos draft in 30 mins what is the best strat here?
Sigmasonic: The pilots have already figured that one out. They just wait a turn for the combo holding up Dispel.
the head of magic digital.
And you guys said the Saheeli deck was unbeatable
Collective Defiance is SUPER GOOD against it as is Authority of the Consuls like many thought. It becomes REALLY slow.
Infinite Stars
Member
the head of magic digital.
And you guys said the Saheeli deck was unbeatable
Collective Defiance is SUPER GOOD against it as is Authority of the Consuls like many thought. It becomes REALLY slow.
Not to be the devil's advocate, but I wouldn't use MTGO Beta results for matchup data this early on.
It's good for knowing what is broken/can be broken (See Grimace last thread), but I don't think most people are running tuned decklists on it yet.
The interesting thing to see will be how many Saheeli's becomes standard. She's not good enough by herself I think to warrant a 4 of.
I guess my ultimate question is "How's your UW Flash matchup?" Because I'd expect some remixed version of that with Red for the combo/added removal.
The Saheeli thing is dumb as hell, she went from bulk pw to 14€ in about half an hour. By the time I went to see if I could buy some it was already too late.
Not to pile on, but literally no one here has said that
Not to pile on, but literally no one here has said that
This is a good sign that NEXT is pretty close.
Hopefully they hit at least a closed beta this year.
Eager to try many matches!
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
The comedy is gonna be when nothing gets banned because they don't like standard bans.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Might as well officially adopt frontier at this point. It has fetches for fatal push
Pick the Legends pack.
If no Legends pack, pick Future Sight for Goyf, Alliances for Force of Will, Ravnica for Dark Confidant, Innistrad for Snapcaster Mage and Liliana, or if you're feeling lucky, Worldwake for JTMS.
Also some removal and dorks inbetween. Have fun!
Dont like to admit they fucked up.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
My current list
whenif it goes of its hilarious
These Saheeli combo decks just hit from too many angles. Play for control they have gideon or copter and just straight kill you, play for board control they randomly combo you out, sometimes they are just straight aggro and they could even be using Nahiri to stop authority from stopping the combo.
Considering going down to 23 lands. Cut the thopters again since they didn't do enough, i.e. draw cards of sram. Deck can be a bit inconsistent but
These Saheeli combo decks just hit from too many angles. Play for control they have gideon or copter and just straight kill you, play for board control they randomly combo you out, sometimes they are just straight aggro and they could even be using Nahiri to stop authority from stopping the combo.
I suppose I'm biased because I despise combo, turn x, infinite bullshit decks that just rely on the right steps being followed.
But the guardian saheeli bullshit makes me really fucking aggravated and ensures I won't be returning to constructed anytime soon.
But the guardian saheeli bullshit makes me really fucking aggravated and ensures I won't be returning to constructed anytime soon.
fucking literally this. They will NOT admit they didn't see it coming
They will defend Authority of the Consuls + Thalia as "we knew it was there. play these cards" regardless of the fact you may not be running white. AT ALL.
BASICALLY FUCKING THIS
"WOTC. Standard is a mess. Please ban some cards! You know you're wrong!"
"Nope. No. No."
"Yes, you're wrong, you make mistakes, it's okay!"
"No. No. NO. NO. NO."
"Come on, just make it right, you fucked up!"
"NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, EEEAWWW EEEEEYAWWWW"
It's just strange considering how cautious wizards seemed to be for so long about never having another tolarian academy situation. This isn't anywhere close to that level of buffoonery, but the whole "great now 8000 nubs will be playing this stupid fucking fun absorbing deck at every fnm" does seem to be happening more often recently.
Netdecking is always a thing, but the worst is when you literally have to build the deck to have options to best it or they go "oops I win"
My biggest fear is they'll just go
"Well, you should be playing Authority of the Consuls then!"
As if everyone is playing white.
Make no mistake, they will wait until after the PT to ban anything... But by then the damage will be done.
So I've said this before and got shouted at, but in my experience Wizards will *never* catch this stuff until they completely change their testing process.
I sued to be involved in playtesting for other CCGs at a fairly high level - I'd get flown out for the weekend from the UK to the USA to chain play the set for the weekend, with the intent on breaking as much as possible. We'd change cards and decks across the 4 days, and try our hardest to fuck balance. They drew their playtesters from a mix of players - I got in because I managed to develop a deck that came second at UK nationals using a bunch of not very good cards that when combined worked a lot better than anyone expected. They wanted people who messed around with combos and stuff like that. Now, it wasn't perfect. But since they started doing that, and having external people who were good at the game playtest sets, they never once had a broken combo get into the environment. The sets weren't perfectly balanced (no set really ever can be), but we caught SO much shit that previously had made it through design and development and got it changed.
Wizards is far, far too reliant on its internal people. In my experience, designers and developers make for really bad playtesters because they know too much and have way too much preset ideas on the sets. Similarly, friends and family make for bad play testers because they don't play at a decent enough level to find this stuff and completely break it in half.
Wizards needs some high skill level players who aren't involved in the sets to do this stuff for them.
That's the thing, you need four damage. The fucking cat is a 1/4. Why it's not 1/3 I don't fucking know
To make it more comical, the cat dodges so much of the best removal in the format. There is also no incinerate in standard so instant speed killing saheeli is going to be harder.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
dude did you really need to take them to court over?
incredible how one letter displaced can make such a difference in meaning
I think that's what frustrates me the most.... 1000 people will take this to fnm and win because you didn't draw your x kill spell , or hate card then you just lose the game turn 4.
And thats only against bad players. Try playing against decent players with counter spell backup, and dispel/disallow in their sideboard.
And they don't need to go off turn 4. There's literally a game of magic where someone goes turn 1 land thraben inspector, turn 2 any 2 drop , it gets countered (revolutionary rebuff/negate) turn 3 they play saheeli, now at this point from your 3rd turn on against a control deck you need to keep mana up ... for the rest of the game or you lose.
Think about that for a second , you can never tap out for the rest of the game or you risk losing the game, unless you are playing counterspells yourself, or can play at their end step.
sure if you're another control deck it's not a big deal, negate Saheeli, kill the goat.
The fact that every single deck needs to be built with answers to that single 2 card
Combo.
It makes Aetherworks Marvel Decks and turn 4 Emrakuls look like fair magic.
I'm done with standard
And thats only against bad players. Try playing against decent players with counter spell backup, and dispel/disallow in their sideboard.
And they don't need to go off turn 4. There's literally a game of magic where someone goes turn 1 land thraben inspector, turn 2 any 2 drop , it gets countered (revolutionary rebuff/negate) turn 3 they play saheeli, now at this point from your 3rd turn on against a control deck you need to keep mana up ... for the rest of the game or you lose.
Think about that for a second , you can never tap out for the rest of the game or you risk losing the game, unless you are playing counterspells yourself, or can play at their end step.
sure if you're another control deck it's not a big deal, negate Saheeli, kill the goat.
The fact that every single deck needs to be built with answers to that single 2 card
Combo.
It makes Aetherworks Marvel Decks and turn 4 Emrakuls look like fair magic.
I'm done with standard
ThLunarian
Member
Wandering Fumarole + Crackdown Construct is another infinite combo. Much less of an instant win than the other one because it needs a single creature without evasion to connect... but still. Playtesting for this set must have been pretty awful.
Edit: And since Fumarole is a land, it doesn't even cost a slot. You could just throw a Construct into any red/blue deck as an occasional free win. Nuts.
Edit: And since Fumarole is a land, it doesn't even cost a slot. You could just throw a Construct into any red/blue deck as an occasional free win. Nuts.
I am Error
Member
Will Saheeli increase in price or will it go down within the next couple of days?
My brother has opened three copies of this card since Kaladesh released and selling her might be a good way to get the money for a new deck it seems.
Now the question is sell them now or later?
My brother has opened three copies of this card since Kaladesh released and selling her might be a good way to get the money for a new deck it seems.
Now the question is sell them now or later?
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Peaks are usually at the Pro Tour but only if they are successful.
Simply Sarah
Member
Bad news from The Professor. All his classes got cancelled for the term and his car broke down to the point that it would cost the same to replace it.
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