Of course not.
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Magic: the Gathering |OT11| Amonkhet - Have you ever had decks with a Pharaoh?
- Thread starter SigmasonicX
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Infinite Stars
Member
Frontier being a thing (in the West at least, Japan is an entirely different market where I've seen it be somewhat good) was a reaction to 3 shitty Standard seasons and a shitty Modern year that had a good summer with two awful ends. It makes sense that when Standard is better (even though fuck Marvel) and Modern is better that Western interest in frontier would go down.
Angel of Invention is sweet for Brewing, but unless we get Convoke or something in Standard soon she's going to be stuck in limbo. As a Convoke enabler she's 3 Bodies for 8 Mana/one chord and an anthem. It's also hillarious to me that she's able to be grabbed off of Reveillark's trigger due to her base stats.
Gee, I wonder why Servo Exhibition didn't catch on. Maybe it has something to do with being a strictly worse Raise the Alarm? Like, was it being at Instant Speed somehow this format warping card when Raise the Alarm has never been that?
Angel of Invention is sweet for Brewing, but unless we get Convoke or something in Standard soon she's going to be stuck in limbo. As a Convoke enabler she's 3 Bodies for 8 Mana/one chord and an anthem. It's also hillarious to me that she's able to be grabbed off of Reveillark's trigger due to her base stats.
It's hillarious how strong Gearhulk is in a format where Cryptic Command/Gifts are cards. If/When Modern ends up slowing down more I can see Gearhulk seeing play, because 6 Mana for a 5/6 with added Cryptic is ridiculous.
I have to assume they thought that making artifact creatures in an artifact block was enough of an upside that making it an instant as well would've been to good.
Meanwhile, they printed Elvish Visionary with +2/+1 and two free energy, all for 1 blue mana more.
The entire reason it blew up was Standard being shitty. As soon as the bans happened, Frontier just died. It was always exactly that- Modern cards are more expensive in Japan and so it was created as a budget format.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Frontier could be interesting in a year or two. I don't really want to retire my Gearhulks.
Infinite Stars
Member
Frontier Right now is akin to Modern, but you only have up to Shadowmoor block. I mean, it matches up somewhat.
You've got the Artifact Block that broke Standard with every set, leading to bans issued in Standard for the first time in a long time(Mirrodin/Kaladesh), the Multicolored set that created probably one of the best worlds ever and is considered one of the pinnacles of the period(Tarkir/Ravnica), a return to a world that was super popular that ends up being a great block with a few development issues(Time Spiral/Shadows), a block based on a lesser known mythology that has a great draft environment minus some complications(Lorwyn/Amonkhet) and a turd of a block with the few good cards being mostly Development pushing hard for playable(Kamigawa/BFZ)
The only justification for it not being instant is that they thought the draft "dudes get +1/+1" cards would be better then they would, which just rings of Tonedeaf to me.
You've got the Artifact Block that broke Standard with every set, leading to bans issued in Standard for the first time in a long time(Mirrodin/Kaladesh), the Multicolored set that created probably one of the best worlds ever and is considered one of the pinnacles of the period(Tarkir/Ravnica), a return to a world that was super popular that ends up being a great block with a few development issues(Time Spiral/Shadows), a block based on a lesser known mythology that has a great draft environment minus some complications(Lorwyn/Amonkhet) and a turd of a block with the few good cards being mostly Development pushing hard for playable(Kamigawa/BFZ)
Like, that would make sense.. if we had anything that actually cared about artifact creatures see play beyond limited. Fabricate was/is a trash tier mechanic 90% of the time because you always picked the "Make dudes" mode.
The only justification for it not being instant is that they thought the draft "dudes get +1/+1" cards would be better then they would, which just rings of Tonedeaf to me.
I don't play Standard, but I thought Standard got worse after the bannings, as it just became Duel Decks: Saheeli vs Mardu. Frontier still vanished though
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Frontier vanished because of modern masters.
Infinite Stars
Member
Frontier vanished because "X" is going to be the Magic Version of why Rome "Fell", right?
If so, I'm just going to put these out here:
Frontier failed because Frontier failed.
Frontier Failed because Hearthstone took the audience
Frontier failed because of New World Order.
If so, I'm just going to put these out here:
Frontier failed because Frontier failed.
Frontier Failed because Hearthstone took the audience
Frontier failed because of New World Order.
It blew up because Standard was godawful. The gains were illusory.
As soon as Standard stopped being godawful (and was instead merely bad) it lost the gains it had made.
Joe Molotov
Member
A miserable pile of Tarkir.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Frontier failed because nobody cares about non-sanctioned formats.
Infinite Stars
Member
Oh, I know that's the biggest reason(even though I'd argue CopyCat Standard was far worse then Emrakul/Copter/Reflector Mage), I'm just taking the piss out of people who try to argue that there's a definitive reason/explaination as to why the Western Roman Empire Collapsed.
Also, Illusory Gains sounds like a Magic card
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
BFZ block had Gideon in it and typed duals along with fetchlands.
SOI block had Emrakul in it.
KLD block had both Felidar combo and Aetherworks Marvel.
No, they aren't going to learn. The fact that Amonkhet didn't randomly break something is a minor miracle if only because he's inherently less powerful than the preceding 2 blocks.
Don't forget before that they had CoCo running rampant. A card that I honestly believe should have ate a ban.
My prayer is Amonkhet is going to be the start of them realizing what they did wrong. I know I'm likely wrong. But all I have is hope.
There was a period of time where 5 Color legitimately "got there"- it was added to Magic Online (as Prismatic, only missing the Ante rules/cards), and was used at the Magic Invitational. It had a ton of issues- ante cards being legal, weird tournament scoring (the value of Ante cards were involved), the whole reserved list issue, the "father" of the format eating a DCI ban for attacking a judge- but it faded over the years and now I bet 90% of the people in this thread never even heard about the format.
EDH only has survived IMO because WOTC adopted it and began designing specifically for the format and throwing tons of support behind it
EDH only has survived IMO because WOTC adopted it and began designing specifically for the format and throwing tons of support behind it
bolas pw is 5 mana and his +ability is mini cruel ultimatum #believe
Infinite Stars
Member
The most broken thing in Amonkhet is New Perspectives, but that's still not anywhere on the tier of Marvel.
CoCo nabbing birds as the lowest creature is arguably much worse then grabbing 2Drops at the lowest. Staple that to Queller/Reflector Mage having 3 Toughness and you've fucked up balance when every card is built around 2 toughness.
I'm convinced CoCo being as strong as it was in Standard is a consequence of them removing Mana Dorks and decent Counterspells while pushing 3Drops.
CoCo nabbing birds as the lowest creature is arguably much worse then grabbing 2Drops at the lowest. Staple that to Queller/Reflector Mage having 3 Toughness and you've fucked up balance when every card is built around 2 toughness.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Speaking of standard I believe the meta will quickly adapt and trash Zombies. UR control running multiple suns mainboard, bant aetherworks and a amalgamation of the chandra and spell heavy temur lists making the rounds.
Infinite Stars
Member
Huh, I forgot Illusory Gains was that card specifically.
It's a lot easier to get to 4 Mana then 6 on each respective turn.
Eh, I'd compare a 6 Mana Enchantment that has that "7 or more clause" to be very different from a 4 Mana "Oops I win" button.
It's a lot easier to get to 4 Mana then 6 on each respective turn.
Infinite Stars
Member
Right, I know the 6 Mana is fine, it's just Development doesn't test anything that's actually worth testing.
Both Marvel and New Perspectives would have been fine if they hadn't missed some glaring issue(Literally anything on Marvel/The Blue Untap Cycler existing for New Perspectives).
divisionbyzorro
Member
It's not obvious, that's for sure. Multiple people on this very forum were in the MTGO beta and tried building New Perspectives decks right from the get-go and immediately dismissed them as trash (and I saw plenty of other people in the beta trying and failing as well). The problem is that you look at Vizier during the spoiler review and then immediately forget it exists - making the connection that Vizier is the card that breaks New Perspective only happens if you think like a brewer.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I would, again, reiterate that I don't think anyone in development should probably still be employed there.
They missed all of the previously mentioned cards, and then noted last week in the design file that they printed Manglehorn to stop Aetherworks Marvel. Note: Manglehorn either comes down after Aetherworks Marvel is already resolved, and its static ability just gives it the equivalent of summoning sickness. They do not appear to understand that the problem with a card like Aetherworks Marvel is that energy is too easy to get (and received by cards that are far above rate considering energy cost) and destroying isn't that amazing because it your opponent almost assuredly gets a shot at it anyways. Getting a shot at Marvel is insanely broken to begin with.
NP isn't broken
They missed all of the previously mentioned cards, and then noted last week in the design file that they printed Manglehorn to stop Aetherworks Marvel. Note: Manglehorn either comes down after Aetherworks Marvel is already resolved, and its static ability just gives it the equivalent of summoning sickness. They do not appear to understand that the problem with a card like Aetherworks Marvel is that energy is too easy to get (and received by cards that are far above rate considering energy cost) and destroying isn't that amazing because it your opponent almost assuredly gets a shot at it anyways. Getting a shot at Marvel is insanely broken to begin with.
NP isn't broken
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
How does the Vizier combo with NP? I'm missing it somehow
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
NP combo is way too fragile to any interaction and requires too heavy deck building constraints.
well on the face of it it generates mana by untapping a land but combined with a land enchanted with weirding wood it generates a ton of mana.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
It's not good there either, it's comically fragile.
It only "works" because you load your deck with cards that have cycling. You have an almost hard cap on how many cards you can run that don't have cycling because you need a certain number of lands to go off. The reason this is important is that the deck is worse than your average limited pool without either wincon or New Perspectives. Except you can't actually do anything to protect your wincon from either your hand or the battlefield because you don't have the flexibility to start boarding in a bunch of countermagic. You actually can load your deck up with Negate and Dispel, but it critically dilutes your deck and your opponent will almost always have more counterspells than you do if you're doing that.
I'm sure it's good enough to occasionally take a FNM.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Helene Bergeot quit.
Just announced via Twitter: https://twitter.com/HeleneBergeot/status/864591027209883648
Also, are Gaby Spartz and LSV the same person?
This is the one loss I feared when Cocks came on.
Hopefully she's going on to bigger and better things (with a bigger paycheck!)
divisionbyzorro
Member
Like I said when the deck appeared, I feel like it's in the league of Jeskai Ascendency. The difference is that I'm pretty sure they knew what they were doing with Ascendency, and they thought that New Perspectives wouldn't be "breakable" in Standard.
I admit it's hard to think of anything as broken that's not banworthy in an environment where we just had to ban a pile of cards and might end up banning another.
Trying to get back onto my YouTube videos after a hiatus. I get creatively burnt out sometimes.
Thursday's Legendrule will be based around this guy
->
I find the gameplay style you want to build with this guy as a commander interesting. Lots of "above four cards" effects can stack like Ivory Tower and the like.
Thursday's Legendrule will be based around this guy
I find the gameplay style you want to build with this guy as a commander interesting. Lots of "above four cards" effects can stack like Ivory Tower and the like.
Joe Molotov
Member
Thursday's Legendrule will be based around this guy
->
So if you have 0 cards in your hand, do all creatures get +4/+4?
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
So do people remember the combat shortcut rules change?
I recently found out why it was worded the way it is and why it is on the whole a bit stupid
This came up because my opponent had a toolcraft exemplar and I pondered whether the new rules would allow me to kill his artifact w/o him able to play another in the mainphase. It's not but only because of the bolded part.
Otherwise said if my opponent goes "combat" I magma spray the scrounger he can play another artifact, if I magma spray a thraben inspector we're already in the beginning of combat. Now I do wonder though if my opponent also had a clue when would I be acting and what would happen if my opponent cracked a clue in response?
I recently found out why it was worded the way it is and why it is on the whole a bit stupid
bolded the important part. So the old "unless otherwise noted NAP is acting in the beginning of combat" still applies unless that's affecting a beginning of combat trigger.new rule said:
This came up because my opponent had a toolcraft exemplar and I pondered whether the new rules would allow me to kill his artifact w/o him able to play another in the mainphase. It's not but only because of the bolded part.
Otherwise said if my opponent goes "combat" I magma spray the scrounger he can play another artifact, if I magma spray a thraben inspector we're already in the beginning of combat. Now I do wonder though if my opponent also had a clue when would I be acting and what would happen if my opponent cracked a clue in response?
The way it's worded, yes.
huh. Funny how that works. Secret tech?
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
There's some weird esper death's shadow lists that kill with a supercharged DS and phyrexian unlife.
Break out your Flings lol
charlequin
Banned
This is the one loss I feared when Cocks came on.
Any specific reason? Helene's been at WotC so long it wouldn't surprise me at all for her to bounce to somewhere that'll give her a big title bump, she was kind of capped out where she was.
Just that turnover in high level positions like that is pretty normal w/ new CEOs and such. Nothing specific- I think we all saw the Worth thing coming.
Infinite Stars
Member
The biggest condemnation you can give Development is that the Smuggler's Copter we got was the second weakest one they had in the file of all of them, yet it still was strong enough to get banned.
From the M-Files:
From the M-Files:
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