Support NeoGAF

[Infinite Stars]

I find it amusing how MaRo admits that they handed Design to Development thinking they'd be able to salvage it, yet Development has been responsible for Standard being shit for the past 3 blocks.

I think that if they were to do it over again, they needed a much better "Hunger Mechanic". Considering Ulamog's brood was eating the plane, what if they had switched Annihilator? The Zendikari were fleeing the Eldrazi, escaping (mostly) fine from the broods for a while. What if the defending player could Sacrifice to avoid damage?

 

[red13th]

Scryfall DOES have a way to filter modern frame cards, so I guess I'm never using magiccards.info again?
You just have to type is:modern. I had no idea. lol

 

[OnPoint]

I'd argue the biggest problem w/ BFZ was Mark putting himself in the lead designer chair.

He didn't get RoE, and given that you HAD to deal w/ the Eldrazi here, you need someone who at a minimum "gets it" leading things.

Ding ding ding

 

[Zocano]

I know they've been doing it for a while but I'm always weirded out when they make mythics that feel like slightly more pushed rares. I think that's the best way to describe it but nothing about Angel of Sanctions or Cruel Reality really screams "mythic". Combat Celebrant to a lesser extent as well. Cruel Reality is a bit different because you don't really see "enchant player" often but it doesn't feel quite there as a mythic. Quite as splashy, I mean.

 

[red13th]

I was looking for cards for the cubes and I found this amusing:

They almost halved the amount of text in the card. lol

 

[Giant Panda]

I like the idea of ingest and processing, I just think the execution was bad. None of the cards did both, and there were so few of them. Had been supported as much as energy it would have worked a lot better.

 

[Ashodin]

okay the last revision of my deck stinks, time to fix it before amonkhet

(i'm brewing before and after decks)

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I never got the issue with devoid. Maybe they should have done protection so people got the significance

Spoiler

/s

Ok, I guess I misunderstood. What are you talking about with second chances then? Do you mean WotC? They aren't going to bring her back probably for a while. I would imagine she is seen as a success. So it's likely she'll reappear in 2-5 years.

Yeah I mean WotC. Saheeli was the posterchild of a set but amounted to next to nothing story wise. Tamiyo similarly should have been in Jace's place in SOI. I.d like both to return within a year.

 

[GoutPatrol]

Off the wall question:
If most limited decks run a (roughly) 2:1 creature:spell ratio, why do they print cards in a 1:1 ratio? Which ratio should a cube run?

Alot of the things you would put in a cube are really overpowered spells so your ratios end up being different. Are you counting token makers too?

 

[SigmasonicX]

There are only two viziers
Why nagas are still being supported

revealingmetal asked: Are the Legendary Viziers a cycle? If so will the cycle be split across this block or all be in Amonket?

It is not a cycle. There are only two Viziers.

==

ceta-maelstrom asked: Why Naga over snakes?

When we made Khans of Tarkir, we decided to introduce Nagas. Feeling that the concept of Nagas had enough cache, we gave them their own creature type.

When we decided to bring them back in Amonkhet, there were discussions about whether or not to change them to Snakes but after much talk, it was decided to keep supporting the Naga creature type.

Regular followers know that I’ve said I’m in favor of Snake over Naga (and Dog over Hound), but I respect that my coworkers spent a lot of time weighing the pros and cons before reaching their decision.

I don’t know all the factors, but I believe part of our push towards diversity is trying to find popular fantasy creatures from around the world and not just centered around more traditional European fantasy creatures.

 

[OnPoint]

Re: Naga vs Snake

Just add Snake to future Naga printings. Make them Naga Snake Warrior or whatever. It's not that hard.

I never got the issue with devoid. Maybe they should have done protection so people got the significance

Spoiler

/s

Yeah I mean WotC. Saheeli was the posterchild of a set but amounted to next to nothing story wise. Tamiyo similarly should have been in Jace's place in SOI. I.d like both to return within a year.

Yeah I'm with you on this. Dovin the Unplayable was more important to the story than Saheeli. How disappointing that she ended up amounting to so little in terms of the events. Even Rashmi was more important (name anagram aside). Why not just put her on the box?

Their handling of Tamiyo is equally silly. Her now-Bant-identity seems misplaced (I still feel she's mono-U) and she definitely should have been in Jace's place in the story. But we need to put Little Boy Blue front and center because GATEWATCH.

Meh.

At least they say they seem to have learned the lesson about shoving them down our throat all block every block... but we'll see.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Nagas are stupid, should be snakes like Orochis. It's not even like they never made Nagas before, coiling oracle is one.

 

[Yeef]

Off the wall question:
If most limited decks run a (roughly) 2:1 creature:spell ratio, why do they print cards in a 1:1 ratio? Which ratio should a cube run?

Well, for starters, they don't print creatures and spells at a 1:1 ratio. Generally speaking, only blue (the color with the fewest creatures) gets a 1:1 ratio at common. Also keep in mind, spells that just make tokens (like Raise the Alarm or Dragon Fodder) are typically counted as creatures.

As far as ratio of creatures to non-creatures, it's all going to depend on the limited environment you're trying to craft. In most standard limited formats, not all creatures (or spells) are worth running. Sometimes because they're just straight bad, sometimes because they're only good in specific builds and sometimes because they're sideboard cards. It creates a tension between taking good creatures early and potentially having lackluster spells, or vice versa.

In formats like cube, where there's little or no filler, the tension typically becomes more about synergy rather than playability. Every card you draft will be playable in any deck of the right color (excepting combo cards like Grapeshot), so even those last 3 picks might make it into your deck if they're on-color.

I generally aim to have at least 55% of cards in my cubes to be creatures, but that can change depending on the specific design.

 

[Violet_0]

he says it like they are the first fantasy setting to introduce Nagas

 

[SigmasonicX]

he says it like they are the first fantasy setting to introduce Nagas

Wizards thought nagas had enough cachet precisely because they've been appearing in other fantasy settings.

 

[Violet_0]

Wizards thought nagas had enough cachet precisely because they've been appearing in other fantasy settings.

"find popular fantasy creatures from around the world"
the phrasing of this part specifically. Just about every creature in any mythology from around the world that is not of the 'thirteen feet and fifty noses' variety has been used in fantasy by now

 

[OnPoint]

I just don't understand how do you misread your playerbase that much. People, especially kitchen table players, often care about tribal synergy. They want to build a snake deck, not a snake and naga deck. Why keep snake-people from being snakes? It's just needlessly confusing and pedantic.

 

[SigmasonicX]

You know, would devoid have been better accepted if it was "This card is colorless in addition to its other colors"? Then it actually is a bonus, like changeling.

 

[Haly]

You know, would devoid have been better accepted if it was "This card is colorless in addition to its other colors"? Then it actually is a bonus, like changeling.

This... is very... gross, in a way I cannot fully articulate.

I mean yes it'd be more interesting than what we got but it feels so wrong.

Or is that meta?

 

[OnPoint]

You know, would devoid have been better accepted if it was "This card is colorless in addition to its other colors"? Then it actually is a bonus, like changeling.

Something can't have a color and also be colorless.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Something can't have a color and also be colorless.

Unless it has alternate devoid >_>

 

[Angry Grimace]

Off the wall question:
If most limited decks run a (roughly) 2:1 creature:spell ratio, why do they print cards in a 1:1 ratio? Which ratio should a cube run?

I think my average draft decks ratio is closer to 3:1. I almost never play less than 15 creatures, more often 16-18.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Drop a t3 Arlinn with a ramp critter and play this turn 4 for some neat Johnny monsters then vigilance from arlinn to continue the fun.

Edit: I know I've receded to being a lurker anymore, but I noticed that God's Beard wasn't in the last ot at all according to the top posters list. Did I miss something there?

I don't post a lot when Standard isn't fun. I haven't even bought a card since SOI.

 

[Infinite Stars]

Re: Naga vs Snake

Just add Snake to future Naga printings. Make them Naga Snake Warrior or whatever. It's not that hard.



Yeah I'm with you on this. Dovin the Unplayable was more important to the story than Saheeli. How disappointing that she ended up amounting to so little in terms of the events. Even Rashmi was more important (name anagram aside). Why not just put her on the box?

Their handling of Tamiyo is equally silly. Her now-Bant-identity seems misplaced (I still feel she's mono-U) and she definitely should have been in Jace's place in the story. But we need to put Little Boy Blue front and center because GATEWATCH.

Meh.

At least they say they seem to have learned the lesson about shoving them down our throat all block every block... but we'll see.

Actually, I'd say from her in the context solely of SoI, she's Bant in thst block. Definitely Blue centred, but Tamiyo was demonstrating both an interest within the natural elements of Innistrad vs The Eldritch Corruption+Obeying the rules of the plane she herself was on.

Blue generally doesn't care about either. Her blue Alignment I think is best seen in how every ability on Field Researcher is Blue(Card Draw when combat, Ice Breath, and Ancestral Recall stapled to Omniscience)

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Wizards outright said she's only Bant because cloak boy took up space. The card is mono blue in all its effects as you said.
Bant fits storywise because the colour pie is quite fluid like that.

 

[duxstar]

Are they banning combo yet or are these cards still pretty much worthless ?

Ive thought about what youd ban out of mardu, i just think mardu got lucky as hell that cat combo came around. The worst part is i could see wizards doing something dumb and thinking copycat can stick around because theres new cards to play against it.

Mardu pretty much gets hated out a little easy once cat combo is gone by your typical control deck, if people think gideon needs to go then i guess its him , he does give them an answer to control i guess.

The card that looks the most scary/broken to me is wind drake enchantment. There arent alot of cards that deal with enchantments at the moment and uncounterable 2/2s for 1 while playing against draw go control sounds a nightmare.

But anything would be better than current standard.

 

[Maledict]

They should absolutely be snakes and not naga. Snakes are an integral part of the Egyptian mythos and setting, and naga doesn't make any sense here at all.

 

[Infinite Stars]

Wizards outright said she's only Nant because cloak boy took up space. The card is mono blue in all its effects as you said.
Bant fits storywise because the colour pie is quite fluid like that.

Furthermore, why the fuck is Jace still MonoBlue? It makes no sense to me

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

They should absolutely be snakes and not naga. Snakes are an integral part of the Egyptian mythos and setting, and naga doesn't make any sense here at all.

Naga never make sense since they are anthropomorphic contrary to fantastic beings like Gorgons. As such Minotaurs needed to be Oxen OTOH, which would be weird. Does wizard just flip a coin on these things? Viashino are lizards again for instance.

Furthermore, why the fuck is Jace still MonoBlue? It makes no sense to me

Jace clashes in 2 colour combinations. His mechanics are strongly rooted in milling which is an UB archetype but he appears to be more UW natured as a character.

 

[TheBlackMarvel]

Furthermore, why the fuck is Jace still MonoBlue? It makes no sense to me

For the same reason the rest of the Jacetice League are all mono coloured.

Spoiler

The real question is why are Sorin and Nahiri still part white?

 

[Giant Panda]

Re: Naga vs Snake
Just add Snake to future Naga printings. Make them Naga Snake Warrior or whatever. It's not that hard.

I think this is the best route to take. But then to be fair, Humans should become Human Ape ;P

 

[Imperfected]

As someone else said, you just make them Naga Snake (Soldier, Cleric, etc.). Aside from a very mild concern of "subtype bloat"--which, really, isn't much of a concern at all--the only possible issue with doing so is maybe you unlock some broken Orochi tribal tech, but I'm going to say someone can probably be arsed to flip through the dozen or so non-trivial Snake cards to make sure that isn't the case.

 

[Santiako]

https://www.twitch.tv/scgtour

SCG Legacy Open

 

[Big Icarus]

For the same reason the rest of the Jacetice League are all mono coloured.

Spoiler

The real question is why are Sorin and Nahiri still part white?

Tribal association for Nahiri. She's a Kor, so she's always going to be a white planeswalker. Characters in color associated tribes keep the tribe color if they are a walker. Ob-Nix is always going to be black, Daretti is always red, Kiora is always blue.

 

[red13th]

As someone else said, you just make them Naga Snake (Soldier, Cleric, etc.). Aside from a very mild concern of "subtype bloat"--which, really, isn't much of a concern at all--the only possible issue with doing so is maybe you unlock some broken Orochi tribal tech, but I'm going to say someone can probably be arsed to flip through the dozen or so non-trivial Snake cards to make sure that isn't the case.

Legendary Naga probably wouldn't fit the type line. :/

 

[Wulfric]

Huzzah, a day off AND a legacy stream? This is great.

I agree that nagas should be different from snakes. If they weren't going to show up in Amonkhet, they wouldn't show up in another standard plane. I feel like Naga typing would work in more colors as well, outside of Sultai. Snakes are more of a B/G thing.

 

[Supast4r]

I just don't understand how do you misread your playerbase that much. People, especially kitchen table players, often care about tribal synergy. They want to build a snake deck, not a snake and naga deck. Why keep snake-people from being snakes? It's just needlessly confusing and pedantic.

It's the same issue with human and solider.

 

[DrArchon]

There's an obvious solution to the Naga vs Snake problem.

Print tribal cards that work with both Nagas AND Snakes. It's not like there's a glut of Snake and Naga lords or anything, so why not print a couple for kitchen table players?

 

[Poppy]

Huzzah, a day off AND a legacy stream? This is great.

I agree that nagas should be different from snakes. If they weren't going to show up in Amonkhet, they wouldn't show up in another standard plane. I feel like Naga typing would work in more colors as well, outside of Sultai. Snakes are more of a B/G thing.

mystic snake is UG so theres precedence for sultai!

i dont like the fact that naga arent snakes. like it was said before, kamigawa snakemen are snakes, all splitting naga off does is bone tribal synergy

 

[Santiako]

Yeah, Naga not working with this guy:

Or the other Kamigawa snake lords doesn't make any sense.

 

[jph139]

I mean, it's super arbitrary. Like, a good chunk of mythical creatures are just "dude + animal" - minotaur, centaur, satyr, hell even merfolk. You just have to decide where that line is. Otherwise we'd have "Centaur Horse Human Warrior" running around and no one wants that.

I'm fine with Naga being over that line. It has enough cache for me as a unique "thing."

 

[red13th]

Viashino and Cephalid are also randomly not Lizards and Octopi. Rhox were beasts and then turned into humanoid Rhinos. Loxodon were always Elephants though.

 

[DrArchon]

Speaking of Cephalids, I really wish they'd bring them back. The only Merfolk I enjoy are the Lorwyn kind (Merfolk with legs are no good imo), and Vedalken are so goddamn boring to me. I'd rather see super smart squidfolk instead of super smart blue man group rejects.

Pity they seem to love burying everything from Odyssey that isn't Flashback.

 

[Big Icarus]

Speaking of Cephalids, I really wish they'd bring them back. The only Merfolk I enjoy are the Lorwyn kind (Merfolk with legs are no good imo), and Vedalken are so goddamn boring to me. I'd rather see super smart squidfolk instead of super smart blue man group rejects.

Pity they seem to love burying everything from Odyssey that isn't Flashback.

Cephalids were always a little too random for me. If they need another Blue iconic race, I think Mindflayers would be a great choice that would be aesthetically similar to cephalids that are more relatable as an established fantasy creature.

They could be shared in Blue and Black, like Dwarves are in Red and White. I'm hoping they haven't given up on Dwarves either. I would love to see more of them in the future

 

[Supast4r]

Speaking of Cephalids, I really wish they'd bring them back. The only Merfolk I enjoy are the Lorwyn kind (Merfolk with legs are no good imo), and Vedalken are so goddamn boring to me. I'd rather see super smart squidfolk instead of super smart blue man group rejects.

Pity they seem to love burying everything from Odyssey that isn't Flashback.

Or they could bring lowryn style faeries back without bitterblossom.

 

[TheBlackMarvel]

Tribal association for Nahiri. She's a Kor, so she's always going to be a white planeswalker. Characters in color associated tribes keep the tribe color if they are a walker. Ob-Nix is always going to be black, Daretti is always red, Kiora is always blue.

Fair enough. I feel it kind of undermines the colour identity but eh.

Spoiler

Also, I assume that only applies to demon Ob Nixilis.

 

[DrArchon]

Or they could bring lowryn style faeries back without bitterblossom.

Eh, they'd all have to be tiny guys with flying, which limits design space. They could bring them back, but I wouldn't want to see them as an evergreen tribe for blue.

 

[HK-47]

They should do more blue spirits, so Bant Spirits gets new cards.

 

[charlequin]

Naga never make sense since they are anthropomorphic contrary to fantastic beings like Gorgons. As such Minotaurs needed to be Oxen OTOH, which would be weird. Does wizard just flip a coin on these things? Viashino are lizards again for instance.

It's really pretty straightforward. They do the mythological type for stuff where average people know the mythological creature and the animal type where they don't or where there isn't a real mythological name to use. Viashino are a weird exception because they added the viashino type a long time ago before this was the rule, and Naga are weird because they went one way in Kamigawa (where "Naga" definitely wouldn't have been right) and then decided to switch it up in Khans.

Like, not that there aren't issues with where they've wound up with it, but it's not really all that weird how they've gotten to where they are.

Speaking of Cephalids, I really wish they'd bring them back.

Cephalids got a bum rap.

 

[Supast4r]

Eh, they'd all have to be tiny guys with flying, which limits design space. They could bring them back, but I wouldn't want to see them as an evergreen tribe for blue.

Why? They all have flash which in itself is very unique. Also there are big faeries from lowryn itself.... Mistbind clique and Oona are both beefy creatures to say the least. They are a tribe that specializes in tempo. We don't really see that in any other creature type.