Zero because of it triggering off of both players.
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Magic: the Gathering |OT11| Amonkhet - Have you ever had decks with a Pharaoh?
- Thread starter SigmasonicX
- Start date
- Status
You really think it'll be someone from Amonkhet? I'm imagining some excuse to not have any native planeswalkers, like "Oh, Bolas used some hocus-pocus mumbo-jumbo to make sure no planeswalkers pop up on his plane because they'd get out and learn that Bolas is EVIL!"
If they do give us a brand new walker in Amonkhet, I want it to be BR. I don't think we've seen one of those in a non-supplemental set since Sarkhan the Mad. Either that or GB because we haven't had a good one of those yet.
Oh right I forgot that.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
So did Tamiyo, both should show up again.
Isn't discarding the card part of the cost of Cycling? Renewed Faith reads
Cycling 1W (1W, Discard this card: Draw a Card).
Shouldn't the blue enchantment replace the entire cost with 0? So you don't need to discard it to draw a card?
Pretty sure that's not how it's intended but the way it's worded "You may pay 0 rather than pay cycling costs" lets you skip every element of the cost as written
Cycling 1W (1W, Discard this card: Draw a Card).
Shouldn't the blue enchantment replace the entire cost with 0? So you don't need to discard it to draw a card?
Pretty sure that's not how it's intended but the way it's worded "You may pay 0 rather than pay cycling costs" lets you skip every element of the cost as written
I do. They haven't ever gone to a new plane and NOT introduced a new Planeswalker connected to it, and I think they'd be eager to have a new Egyptian style character roaming around the multiverse.
Like, there's a lot of excuses not to, but I think it's something that they would want to do.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
702.1a If an effect refers to a ”[keyword ability] cost," it refers only to the variable costs for that keyword.
Example: Varolz, the Scar-Striped has the following ability: ”Each creature card in your graveyard has scavenge. The scavenge cost is equal to its mana cost." A creature card's scavenge cost is an amount of mana equal to its mana cost, and the activation cost of the scavenge ability is that amount of mana plus ”Exile this card from your graveyard."
So, no, you don't get to draw your deck.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Yooooo
Yooooo
Good thing they've already banned Emrakul?
Looks pretty good.
G O O D
B O Y E
Been a long time since the last Elvish Piper effect.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
That card is dumb when they're printing actual unbeatable creatures like Emrakul all the time.
Never. Complete casual card.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Nah, its a dumb Johnny card, I just don't like the constant printing of "don't pay mana" for things that just end the game immediately.
ThLunarian
Member
If there's a reliable way to give it haste, I could see this making Waves. Doomed Necromancer saw Standard play back in the day thanks to Anger.
It'd have to be mana-free haste though. Big difference between 4 and 5 Mana.
Hazoret's Favor. It's also a good way of giving hardcasted fatties haste.
I can see them doing a lightning rift and or an astral slide type effect on a creature and have the effect only work on you. Granted it will probably be unplayable but wizards likes to do callbacks.
I love not paying mana for things and ending games immediately!
Looks pretty good.
Drop a t3 Arlinn with a ramp critter and play this turn 4 for some neat Johnny monsters
then vigilance from arlinn to continue the fun.Edit: I know I've receded to being a lurker anymore, but I noticed that God's Beard wasn't in the last ot at all according to the top posters list. Did I miss something there?
you should just make a deck of all pacts, that enables you to do both, albeit you would lose but thats not important
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
Kaalia with no creature limitations / Elvish piper with no mana cost and a bigger body than either for an equivalent CMC?
Seems pretty gud for any EDH deck with green in it.
Or any deck with green in it that you can guarantee having something game-ending in your hand.
Edit: Does depend on you giving it haste, though, otherwise it's a pretty big removal target.
Seems pretty gud for any EDH deck with green in it.
Or any deck with green in it that you can guarantee having something game-ending in your hand.
Edit: Does depend on you giving it haste, though, otherwise it's a pretty big removal target.
Drop a t3 Arlinn with a ramp critter and play this turn 4 for some neat Johnny monsters
Edit: I know I've receded to being a lurker anymore, but I noticed that God's Beard wasn't in the last ot at all according to the top posters list. Did I miss something there?
He posted 71 times.
Oh duh. I should have just checked the whole list. I just assumed he posted a lot more.
charlequin
Banned
Yeah, part of the reason I was surprised by some of the specific negative reactions was that this seems like a much more modular set, which historically is a good thing for constructed purposes.
Guaranteed there's a land that builds bricks.
Ok, I guess I misunderstood. What are you talking about with second chances then? Do you mean WotC? They aren't going to bring her back probably for a while. I would imagine she is seen as a success. So it's likely she'll reappear in 2-5 years.
Toning down the power level a bit and providing a bunch of weird toys vs a handfull of super pushed cards is great. It just stinks that these have to exist in the same environment and we can't have a clean break from gideon/heart/cat/gearhulks and such. If they can keep the power level consistently around this point for a few blocks, standard can at least have a shot at moving away from the powerful top 1% of cards driven meta to a more reasonable place.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
There's totally a janky Throne of the God Pharaoh deck. And I'm making it. Just make a billion servos/tokens and tap them all down with your vehicles. Smuggler's Copter would have been actively stupid if it were legal.
http://media.wizards.com/2017/podcasts/magic/drivetowork425_lessonslearned_bfz.mp3
Lessons Learned - Battle for Zendikar
Mistakes Made - "Whew. This is just a set full of mistakes." -- Direct Quote
Ancillary Notes
* Worldwake was Brian Tinsman basically ignoring NWO. The set as a whole was designed without it in mind even though it was a new design paradigm.
* Processors and Ingest were a narrow mechanic and very unclear and a terrible replacement for Annihilator, but Annihilator was terrible too.
* The development team really got handed a broken design set and had to piece things together to make it feel better to play. They spent more time on actually designing things themselves instead of development time because of how the set lacked any cohesion. A bad sign in any respect.
* MaRo takes full responsibility for design just failing to deliver something good enough.
* Acknowledges that all these mistakes were made and understanding that he made them is a good learning experience.
* The Two Set Block and Standard Changes really harried MaRo and his team, they had to juggle a lot of problems all at the same time, and Battle for Zendikar was hit the hardest.
* Eldrazi were designed against the idea of making them all colorless to avoid issues of "just every deck running the best ones".
* MaRo believed the frames were enough to convey "colorless" but players got too confused, so Devoid was developed to solve that issue. It's basically just rules text to stop confusion. Other names for colorlessness they wanted to use: Brown, Gray. It was hard to convey colorlessness.
* Players got extremely frustrated that Devoid didn't DO ANYTHING. They have expectations that if you add a keyword it must do something in the game. It created an expectation MaRo couldn't keep.
* Players expect things in a certain pattern and Devoid broke that pattern and created unhappiness.
* Tribal being abandoned meant it was harder to connect Eldrazi in the set but Tribal could have solved a lot of problems that Devoid involved.
* MaRo fought against OGW having colorless mana symbol, as it made limited look weird with Devoid and Colorless Mana Symbol basically meaning the same thing.
* Ravnica compartmentalized all the mechanics into the guilds so you could easily distinguish between the two, Battle for Zendikar didn't make it clear cut what each side did and really entangle them in a way that felt natural.
* Battle for Zendikar should have been slightly less than average number of mechanics, instead of more than average.
* Focusing on the war just made everything too tricky to navigate.
* Big regrets on the changes from Three Sets to Two Sets in the middle of design. It just really dominated their time that handing down design was regretful.
* Eldrazi giving back the exiled cards because of eating it caused confusion and player dissatisfaction.
* MaRo doesn't know exactly what he'd do to fix it (or what he was supposed to do) if given the chance to re-do the set again. He believes he went down a path of design that just came out at where an elegant solution couldn't have been found.
* MaRo admits he pointed his design team in the wrong direction, his vision for the set was just not in the right place, from the very start.
FOR THE FUTURE
-- Future Zendikar set will be ALL ABOUT "Adventure World". There will be only tiny remnants of the Eldrazi, but it will be about quests, adventuring, everything that made Zendikar great.
-- Player expectations of future mechanics will be kept in mind and release future cards that will be closer to the original power of the mechanic (if really strong) or stronger (if really weak).
-- New lesson for future sets: make a realistic target that can be met instead of trying to fit in everything from previous sets.
MY COMMENTS
oof. so much to unpack.
Lessons Learned - Battle for Zendikar
Mistakes Made - "Whew. This is just a set full of mistakes." -- Direct Quote
- Mistake #1 - Picking up on Rise of the Eldrazi's cliffhanger
- Mistake #2 - Didn't try to capture adventure world, Eldrazi should have played a smaller role
- Mistake #3 - Focusing hard on the Eldrazi, they work better as smaller, more foreboding threat instead of full on invaders
- Mistake #4 - We Made the Eldrazi Too Weird - Needed to be more relatable
- Mistake #5 - Eldrazi Are Hard to Design and in Large Numbers
- Mistake #6 - Made the Wrong Choice to Have Eldrazi Winning Over Zendikari
- Mistake #7 - The War Against the Eldrazi Made the World Disappear Into the Background
- Mistake #8 - Divvying the Titans Into One Per Set Dragged It Out Too Much
- Mistake #9 - Trying to Make a Mechanic Similar to Annihilator Instead of Something New Related to Ulamog
- Mistake #10 - Trying to Recreate Rise of the Eldrazi instead of Zendikar and Worldwake
- Mistake #11 - Devoid Was a Keyword That Did Nothing
- Mistake #12 - COLORLESS MANA SYMBOL SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN BATTLE FOR ZENDIKAR
- Mistake #13 - Battle for Zendikar didn't introduce the Gatewatch in the best way
- Mistake #14 - Battle for Zendikar had too many goddamn mechanics
- Mistake #15 - Trying to come back to mechanics that were really powerful and doing them not as good sours players on the mechanics.
Ancillary Notes
* Worldwake was Brian Tinsman basically ignoring NWO. The set as a whole was designed without it in mind even though it was a new design paradigm.
* Processors and Ingest were a narrow mechanic and very unclear and a terrible replacement for Annihilator, but Annihilator was terrible too.
* The development team really got handed a broken design set and had to piece things together to make it feel better to play. They spent more time on actually designing things themselves instead of development time because of how the set lacked any cohesion. A bad sign in any respect.
* MaRo takes full responsibility for design just failing to deliver something good enough.
* Acknowledges that all these mistakes were made and understanding that he made them is a good learning experience.
* The Two Set Block and Standard Changes really harried MaRo and his team, they had to juggle a lot of problems all at the same time, and Battle for Zendikar was hit the hardest.
* Eldrazi were designed against the idea of making them all colorless to avoid issues of "just every deck running the best ones".
* MaRo believed the frames were enough to convey "colorless" but players got too confused, so Devoid was developed to solve that issue. It's basically just rules text to stop confusion. Other names for colorlessness they wanted to use: Brown, Gray. It was hard to convey colorlessness.
* Players got extremely frustrated that Devoid didn't DO ANYTHING. They have expectations that if you add a keyword it must do something in the game. It created an expectation MaRo couldn't keep.
* Players expect things in a certain pattern and Devoid broke that pattern and created unhappiness.
* Tribal being abandoned meant it was harder to connect Eldrazi in the set but Tribal could have solved a lot of problems that Devoid involved.
* MaRo fought against OGW having colorless mana symbol, as it made limited look weird with Devoid and Colorless Mana Symbol basically meaning the same thing.
* Ravnica compartmentalized all the mechanics into the guilds so you could easily distinguish between the two, Battle for Zendikar didn't make it clear cut what each side did and really entangle them in a way that felt natural.
* Battle for Zendikar should have been slightly less than average number of mechanics, instead of more than average.
* Focusing on the war just made everything too tricky to navigate.
* Big regrets on the changes from Three Sets to Two Sets in the middle of design. It just really dominated their time that handing down design was regretful.
* Eldrazi giving back the exiled cards because of eating it caused confusion and player dissatisfaction.
* MaRo doesn't know exactly what he'd do to fix it (or what he was supposed to do) if given the chance to re-do the set again. He believes he went down a path of design that just came out at where an elegant solution couldn't have been found.
* MaRo admits he pointed his design team in the wrong direction, his vision for the set was just not in the right place, from the very start.
FOR THE FUTURE
-- Future Zendikar set will be ALL ABOUT "Adventure World". There will be only tiny remnants of the Eldrazi, but it will be about quests, adventuring, everything that made Zendikar great.
-- Player expectations of future mechanics will be kept in mind and release future cards that will be closer to the original power of the mechanic (if really strong) or stronger (if really weak).
-- New lesson for future sets: make a realistic target that can be met instead of trying to fit in everything from previous sets.
MY COMMENTS
oof. so much to unpack.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Well, two years later there it is
Can't wait for the Kaladesh one. (ENERGY GOOD VEHICLES BAD)
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
They still seem to be of the opinion that vehicles are super dope and should be used more
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I'd be willing to bet that Gideon AOZ and Cat will be banned. Gideon they'll just say it wasn't designed to be around still and that cat makes standard miserable.
TheBlackMarvel
Member
Originally weren't Eldrazi just offshoots or expressions of the Titans?
Eldrazi are their blood cells, to be specific. They're the bacteria of the Titans.
SigmasonicX
Member
We knew about a lot of that already, but I'm really happy about the takeaway that if you bring back an exciting mechanic, you don't make it weak and boring. See also rebound in Dragons of Tarkir.
TheBlackMarvel
Member
Hmm, well I suppose that allows them to keep the Eldrazi while ditching the Titans.
Why they'd do this, I cannot fathom however.
- Status