Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
ironmang Top 8'd a GP. Was it GB that grinds win a box events?
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Magic: the Gathering |OT11| Amonkhet - Have you ever had decks with a Pharaoh?
- Thread starter SigmasonicX
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ironmang Top 8'd a GP. Was it GB that grinds win a box events?
Yeah, I'm just staying out of it.
Thinking about Nissa some more and I don't think I'm high on the card anymore. She doesn't really protect herself unless you hit a create with 0 right away. She doesn't fit in a control shell unless you don't mind scry 2, but as posted before, I rather scry 1 and draw with Jace instead. She fits best in a creature shell, but at that point, I might as well play a guaranteed creature. I dunno. I think she's gonna be relegated to sb vs grindy matchups.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I'm pretty sure I remember kirblar (the guy you are talking to) saying he played on the PT before.
Also a T7 score on the GDS2 test.
Kirbs has some clout man. You should listen to him, he's often right.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Why would you want to reprint Counterspell anyway? It's fucking boring! I'd much rather see them print more interesting counterspells (e.g., Silumgar's Scorn from a couple of years ago) than even bother spending the cycles evaluating reprinting a card which is only interesting because it's efficient.
Green god is good. I like it a lot more than the others. I had also assumed the snake god would be given deathtouch, regardless of its body.
Anointed Procession seems fun, as does the new Zombie lord (but then again, I'm a fan of zombies so I'm not going to gripe about a lord).
Nissa is interesting. The U feels forced and I would have expected Nissa to go G/W before any other combo, but whatever.
Anointed Procession seems fun, as does the new Zombie lord (but then again, I'm a fan of zombies so I'm not going to gripe about a lord).
Nissa is interesting. The U feels forced and I would have expected Nissa to go G/W before any other combo, but whatever.
SigmasonicX
Member
Concerning blue Nissa, it seems to me that they might be playing up the connection of water to nature. In the story, she's gotten the hang of communicating with Jace mentally more than the others, and this bond through actual magic could explain why blue magic is rubbing off on her.
Development-wise, they were probably still in the mindset that if they were going to make a new Gatewatch card every year, then they needed to open up design space, which includes opening up color possibilities.
The card itself is interesting, but yeah, it's disappointing that it's Nissa.
As for the question of where MaRo brought up the future drop in Gatewatch cards, discussion starts here. And because some of you guys refuse to actually link sources, here.
As a reminder, I do often list where we discuss news like this in the Highlights section of the second post.
Development-wise, they were probably still in the mindset that if they were going to make a new Gatewatch card every year, then they needed to open up design space, which includes opening up color possibilities.
The card itself is interesting, but yeah, it's disappointing that it's Nissa.
As for the question of where MaRo brought up the future drop in Gatewatch cards, discussion starts here. And because some of you guys refuse to actually link sources, here.
As a reminder, I do often list where we discuss news like this in the Highlights section of the second post.
charlequin
Banned
Yeah, to be clear, I don't want people posting unmarked fakes, certainly, but if there's a prominent enough one somewhere else that it's worth warning people about it (or whatever) then telling people how to find it means it's easier to spot it and verify that yes, it's fake.
To be clear about this since Mark's comment sounded goofy, Ethan Fleischer clarified that Desert was frustratingly good IN LIMITED at uncommon (which I'm confident is true -- the one time they reprinted it before was on the Timeshifted sheet, where it was effectively a mythic for limited purposes) but that it sucked to open as your rare.
I'm actually super into the Gatewatch characters expanding beyond their monocolor status (it's a good way to keep the characters feeling fresher when we see them so often), I'm just weirded out that instead of doing it the first time with any of the numerous foreshadowed developments they did it with one that was completely out of left field.
divisionbyzorro
Member
This is a great clarification. I agree - Desert would fucking suuuuuck to play against in Limited with any regularity.
shrapnelmagnet
Member
Unasked for Prediction: Hour of Devastation has Suspend.
Hour. Time. Suspend.
I agree in principle. The design of the card is also super strange for anyone new to the game. How many players are even aware of the End of Combat step?
That said, I'm annoyed that they couldn't work it in.
Hour. Time. Suspend.
I agree in principle. The design of the card is also super strange for anyone new to the game. How many players are even aware of the End of Combat step?
That said, I'm annoyed that they couldn't work it in.
shrapnelmagnet
Member
. double post
I always thought a white/blue Jace or white/red Gideon would be the first.
SigmasonicX
Member
We'll get white/blue Jace after Bolas kills Gideon in Hour of Devastation, as depicted in a Hero's Downfall reprint. Maybe.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
white red gideon would be all sorts of wrong
I actually thought they'd do a double-walker first. Something like Gideon Chandra card where they're together on one card.
[EDIT]
Not really. He joined the Boros while he was on Ravnica.
I could see the black god having Menace. But I can't really think of a good mechanic to turn him on using it.
If it were Lifelink, they could have it be "black god is a creature if you have five or more life than your opponent". And then have the ability be 3B - Target opponent loses one life, you gain one life. Or something.
If it were Lifelink, they could have it be "black god is a creature if you have five or more life than your opponent". And then have the ability be 3B - Target opponent loses one life, you gain one life. Or something.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Man Gideon's arc was fast
Should have known they wouldn't do anything interesting with him
Imperfected
Member
Man, Hezoret just looks like complete garbage now that 4/5ths of the cycle are out, so I'm fully expecting her to somehow be the only one that sees serious play.
Like the Nissa, don't like it as Nissa. Would have liked some blatant Cleopatra knock-off or something instead.
Procession will be exciting for my friend who plays Trostani EDH, at least.
Like the Nissa, don't like it as Nissa. Would have liked some blatant Cleopatra knock-off or something instead.
Procession will be exciting for my friend who plays Trostani EDH, at least.
I do listen to him. He's honestly my favorite poster of gaf. I just heavily disagree with him on this subject.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Nissa's racist again?
Boros was another organization about enforcing order, right along Gideon's alley. He's still rooted being very much against Red's core identity.
My set review so far for modern:
Cards that will see play:
-Scattered Groves, Irrigated Farmland, Fetid Pools, Canyon Slough, Sheltered Thicket(Bicycle lands): Great in numerous strategies and if you are just flooding. Will see play in many midrange decks just for the cantrip ability, life from the loam decks, assault formation, etc. Amazing cards that may change many modern mana bases.
-Censor: This card is one of the best counterspells that we have gotten in awhile. Having the option of pitching this for only U means that this card is useful in every phase in the game. While paying 1U for a force spike isn't the greatest, the versatility of this card always having a use is. Being able to cycle this then get it back with snapcaster mage later sounds really good. It also helps blue players get to cryptic command mana. I expect this card to play a lot better than it reads in modern. It wouldn't surprise me if this becomes a staple in blue decks based on the power level.
-Curator of Mysteries: There is a lot to love about this card. 4/4 flyer for 4 mana is already a decent body but the ability to cycle this for only U is crazy. This enables: delve creatures, allows you to keep hands that were not good in the first place, feeds goyf, thins your deck, you can get this back with Liliana, the last hope/kolaghan's command in the late game for it to turn into a finisher, etc. For me this card reads as "Instant draw a card" for most of the game with the option of turning into a 4/4 beater in the late game. Plus the sphinx plays well with other cycling cards, plays into liliana of the veil very will when it's out, doesn't punish you for running a playset and it's not legendary. Sleeper card of the set in my opinion.
-Archfiend of Ifnir: Similar to the sphinx there is a lot to like about this card. The biggest thing to like about this card is that it already has a home in living end decks as a way for that deck to deal with lingering souls/other small creatures that chump block living end creatures. Cycling for 2 colorless is also nice because the archfiend doesn't ask you to commit to any color for living end. Solid new card for them.
Cards that might see play:
-Cryptic Serpent in Grixis decks looking for another beater. It's 6/5 body makes this attractive because he can trade/outrade many creatures in the format. Plus he only needs 5 instants/soceries in your graveyard to cost UU and he gets a discount for every instant/sorcery so it's not embarrassing to cast this for 1UU. Also makes me want to brew with bedlam reveler again. Likes faithless looting, censor, thought scour, izzet charm, Jace, vryn's prodigy,collective brutality, liliana of the veil and liliana, the last hope. I'm very excited for this card.
-As Foretold in UW decks with Restore balance/Ancestral vision. That deck will also need Flagstones of Trokair to recover from the restore balance. There is a lot to like about this deck but it needs tooling.
-Gideon of the Trials: One of the flashiest cards of the set that will do more in modern/eternal formats than in standard. His emblem can just hose specific strategies by itself, he is a 4/4 indestructible creature, and he can turn off damage from a permanent. There is a lot to like here but his 1WW casting cost does sting and there doesn't seem to be a deck that wants him right now. It's worth noting that he seems good in the As fortold deck that I talk about. He isn't insanely strong but his swiss army knife abilities are something to look out for.
-Drake Haven: One of the reasons to run a cycling heavy deck. Drake haven already has cards that it wants (Scattered Groves, Irrigated Farmland, Fetid Pools, Canyon Slough, Sheltered Thicket, Censor, Archfiend of Ifnir, Curator of Mysteries.) and we haven't even seen all the cycling cards yet. It may not get there because this is bad in multiplies, it needs mana to do anything, and it's slow. It does give living end decks an alternate wincon through graveyard hate which is why I think this might see play.
-Soul-Scar Mage: A very powerful ability but I'm not sure what deck wants this card. It's worth noting that this can swing into huge creatures and have lightning bolt as backup so it can either trade or deal damage. I don't know where this card fits in modern. Maybe the old UR prowess deck? Will this make lightning bolt great again?
Cards that are almost there but miss the mark:
-Glorybringer: Similar to Channeler Initiate, I predict this card to be a standard all star but it will be hard for this dragon to see play here. It faces stiff competition at the 5 spot as other dragons outclass it in skred/land destruction. The flame slash ability is nice but there are very few cards that untap creatures that see play in modern. Much less the decks that want this creature.
-Channeler Initiate: This card will probably be a staple in standard due to the versatility of being a birds of paradise/small beatstick. However in modern this creatures asks a lot in comparison to other creatures.
-failure/comply: I like the idea of making it so your opponent can't cast the same card for two turns but this feels slow. Weaker than reflector mage which doesn't really see play in modern.
-Manglehorn: Great sideboard hate cards and Chord of calling target but it's kinda slow to deal with affinity.
-Nissa, Steward of Elements: One of the most interesting planeswalker designs that we have seen yet. Sadly she can't protect herself and needs a lot of mana to do work which isn't where you want to be in this format.
-Liliana, Death's Majesty: while I like the design of this card I feel like she is a tad too slow for modern right now. Powerful abilities but she is embarrassing to cast in the face of Thragtusk, reality smasher, Elspeth, Sun's champion,ugin,the spirit dragon, karn liberated, Primeval titan, etc. I can see her being interesting as a grindy option in the esper goyos deck that casts ghost council/jace but that's it.
-Vizier of the Menagerie: There is a lot of power to be had here in terms of card advantage but I don't see what he does that tireless tracker/eternal witness/renegade rallier don't do for card advantage. To make matters worse he is not a hit for collected company decks. It's worth noting that he has great interactions with evoke creatures like mulldrifter.
-Rhonas, the Indomitable: Powerful effect but if you can use this card effectively then you are probably winning already. This is a win more card in many circumstances are modern is capable of putting out 5/5s for 3 mana already so why jump through hoops?
-Kefnet the Mindful: While paying 2U for a 5/5 indestructible flyer is a really good rate this card has many hurdles to get there. The biggest hurdle that sees a lot of play in modern is liliana of the veil as she will make this card feel real bad to play. To make matters harder for our bird friend discards spells are heavily played in death shadow decks/abzan/traditional jund which round out roughly 25% of the format. (Inquisition of Kozilek, thought seize, collective brutality.). Even if you some how get past all of that path to exile is still a heavily played card.
-Hazoret the Fervent: Probably the most playable of the gods that have been spoiled this far in modern as the Pervert can be top decked and deal 5 hasty damage to the face as an indestructible creature. It also doesn't ask a lot of the player as getting down to 1 card isn't tough with LOTV and brutality being in the format. Still 3R for this ability isn't a great rate and path to exile is heavily played in the format for the hoops that this card makes you jump through. Close but no cigar.
-Oketra the True: Cute in bw tokens build as it gets instantly activated off of casting spectral procession but this is probably worse than Sorin, solemn visitor or gideon, ally of zendikar.
-Honored Hydra: Paying 3G for a 6/6 trample is okay in modern but you can probably do better. Cute card.
-Combat Celebrant: Another infinite with Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker but there is no reason in the world to play this over restoration angel, Village Bell-Ringer, pestermite, or deceiver exarch.
-Trueheart Duelist: Cute for value but it's not a good card.
-Dusk/Dawn: Cute in aristocrat decks but not playable because dawn doesn't reanimate.
Cards that will see play:
-Scattered Groves, Irrigated Farmland, Fetid Pools, Canyon Slough, Sheltered Thicket(Bicycle lands): Great in numerous strategies and if you are just flooding. Will see play in many midrange decks just for the cantrip ability, life from the loam decks, assault formation, etc. Amazing cards that may change many modern mana bases.
-Censor: This card is one of the best counterspells that we have gotten in awhile. Having the option of pitching this for only U means that this card is useful in every phase in the game. While paying 1U for a force spike isn't the greatest, the versatility of this card always having a use is. Being able to cycle this then get it back with snapcaster mage later sounds really good. It also helps blue players get to cryptic command mana. I expect this card to play a lot better than it reads in modern. It wouldn't surprise me if this becomes a staple in blue decks based on the power level.
-Curator of Mysteries: There is a lot to love about this card. 4/4 flyer for 4 mana is already a decent body but the ability to cycle this for only U is crazy. This enables: delve creatures, allows you to keep hands that were not good in the first place, feeds goyf, thins your deck, you can get this back with Liliana, the last hope/kolaghan's command in the late game for it to turn into a finisher, etc. For me this card reads as "Instant draw a card" for most of the game with the option of turning into a 4/4 beater in the late game. Plus the sphinx plays well with other cycling cards, plays into liliana of the veil very will when it's out, doesn't punish you for running a playset and it's not legendary. Sleeper card of the set in my opinion.
-Archfiend of Ifnir: Similar to the sphinx there is a lot to like about this card. The biggest thing to like about this card is that it already has a home in living end decks as a way for that deck to deal with lingering souls/other small creatures that chump block living end creatures. Cycling for 2 colorless is also nice because the archfiend doesn't ask you to commit to any color for living end. Solid new card for them.
Cards that might see play:
-Cryptic Serpent in Grixis decks looking for another beater. It's 6/5 body makes this attractive because he can trade/outrade many creatures in the format. Plus he only needs 5 instants/soceries in your graveyard to cost UU and he gets a discount for every instant/sorcery so it's not embarrassing to cast this for 1UU. Also makes me want to brew with bedlam reveler again. Likes faithless looting, censor, thought scour, izzet charm, Jace, vryn's prodigy,collective brutality, liliana of the veil and liliana, the last hope. I'm very excited for this card.
-As Foretold in UW decks with Restore balance/Ancestral vision. That deck will also need Flagstones of Trokair to recover from the restore balance. There is a lot to like about this deck but it needs tooling.
-Gideon of the Trials: One of the flashiest cards of the set that will do more in modern/eternal formats than in standard. His emblem can just hose specific strategies by itself, he is a 4/4 indestructible creature, and he can turn off damage from a permanent. There is a lot to like here but his 1WW casting cost does sting and there doesn't seem to be a deck that wants him right now. It's worth noting that he seems good in the As fortold deck that I talk about. He isn't insanely strong but his swiss army knife abilities are something to look out for.
-Drake Haven: One of the reasons to run a cycling heavy deck. Drake haven already has cards that it wants (Scattered Groves, Irrigated Farmland, Fetid Pools, Canyon Slough, Sheltered Thicket, Censor, Archfiend of Ifnir, Curator of Mysteries.) and we haven't even seen all the cycling cards yet. It may not get there because this is bad in multiplies, it needs mana to do anything, and it's slow. It does give living end decks an alternate wincon through graveyard hate which is why I think this might see play.
-Soul-Scar Mage: A very powerful ability but I'm not sure what deck wants this card. It's worth noting that this can swing into huge creatures and have lightning bolt as backup so it can either trade or deal damage. I don't know where this card fits in modern. Maybe the old UR prowess deck? Will this make lightning bolt great again?
Cards that are almost there but miss the mark:
-Glorybringer: Similar to Channeler Initiate, I predict this card to be a standard all star but it will be hard for this dragon to see play here. It faces stiff competition at the 5 spot as other dragons outclass it in skred/land destruction. The flame slash ability is nice but there are very few cards that untap creatures that see play in modern. Much less the decks that want this creature.
-Channeler Initiate: This card will probably be a staple in standard due to the versatility of being a birds of paradise/small beatstick. However in modern this creatures asks a lot in comparison to other creatures.
-failure/comply: I like the idea of making it so your opponent can't cast the same card for two turns but this feels slow. Weaker than reflector mage which doesn't really see play in modern.
-Manglehorn: Great sideboard hate cards and Chord of calling target but it's kinda slow to deal with affinity.
-Nissa, Steward of Elements: One of the most interesting planeswalker designs that we have seen yet. Sadly she can't protect herself and needs a lot of mana to do work which isn't where you want to be in this format.
-Liliana, Death's Majesty: while I like the design of this card I feel like she is a tad too slow for modern right now. Powerful abilities but she is embarrassing to cast in the face of Thragtusk, reality smasher, Elspeth, Sun's champion,ugin,the spirit dragon, karn liberated, Primeval titan, etc. I can see her being interesting as a grindy option in the esper goyos deck that casts ghost council/jace but that's it.
-Vizier of the Menagerie: There is a lot of power to be had here in terms of card advantage but I don't see what he does that tireless tracker/eternal witness/renegade rallier don't do for card advantage. To make matters worse he is not a hit for collected company decks. It's worth noting that he has great interactions with evoke creatures like mulldrifter.
-Rhonas, the Indomitable: Powerful effect but if you can use this card effectively then you are probably winning already. This is a win more card in many circumstances are modern is capable of putting out 5/5s for 3 mana already so why jump through hoops?
-Kefnet the Mindful: While paying 2U for a 5/5 indestructible flyer is a really good rate this card has many hurdles to get there. The biggest hurdle that sees a lot of play in modern is liliana of the veil as she will make this card feel real bad to play. To make matters harder for our bird friend discards spells are heavily played in death shadow decks/abzan/traditional jund which round out roughly 25% of the format. (Inquisition of Kozilek, thought seize, collective brutality.). Even if you some how get past all of that path to exile is still a heavily played card.
-Hazoret the Fervent: Probably the most playable of the gods that have been spoiled this far in modern as the Pervert can be top decked and deal 5 hasty damage to the face as an indestructible creature. It also doesn't ask a lot of the player as getting down to 1 card isn't tough with LOTV and brutality being in the format. Still 3R for this ability isn't a great rate and path to exile is heavily played in the format for the hoops that this card makes you jump through. Close but no cigar.
-Oketra the True: Cute in bw tokens build as it gets instantly activated off of casting spectral procession but this is probably worse than Sorin, solemn visitor or gideon, ally of zendikar.
-Honored Hydra: Paying 3G for a 6/6 trample is okay in modern but you can probably do better. Cute card.
-Combat Celebrant: Another infinite with Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker but there is no reason in the world to play this over restoration angel, Village Bell-Ringer, pestermite, or deceiver exarch.
-Trueheart Duelist: Cute for value but it's not a good card.
-Dusk/Dawn: Cute in aristocrat decks but not playable because dawn doesn't reanimate.
Giant Panda
Member
Love the zombie support, but they need to quit stacking 3 cmc so much. Diregraf Colossus and Amalagam already make 3 cmc packed.
yeah I gotta say the green god looks rather powerful. A three mana 5/5 indestructible body that is super easy to activate. Deathtouch is whatever but that dude is a snake so it was expected
guess the black god will have menace and is activated by -1/-1 counters or having enough cards in the graveyard
guess the black god will have menace and is activated by -1/-1 counters or having enough cards in the graveyard
Infinite Stars
Member
Gideon's just going to be all "Xenagos was right", isn't he?
Imperfected
Member
Almost certainly cards in graveyards at this point, since it seems to be just Magic's Red-headed stepchild that expects players to stand on their head and gargle vinegar to operate.
charlequin
Banned
Given what Maro said about the mechanic in his last preview article, I expect the original Desert as an Invocation in HOD.
Yeah, red/white Gideon was heavily hinted in the early days and there was a ton of support material for esper Jace.
Yeah, I think the weird thing about it is mostly how little it got hinted in retrospect.
I've seen suggestions that he's gonna turn Oketra against Bolas, which I would be into.
in that case he would be even easier to activate with all the delirium enablers in standard
I'm a bit disappointed that nearly all the gods are generic indestructible beaters for the most part, the only interesting one (mechanically) is the blue god
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
The problem with the color pie is that in some sense they can't get away from water = blue despite the fact it doesn't make all that much sense given how they handle the pie.
Yeah, for all purposes water should be green, but the water and sea being blue is too ingrained in the game now.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Blue mana does come from islands after all.
I'm thinking it might be having a certain level of life more than your opponents, based on his monument and his cartouche. Most of those help to enable their respective gods, so I expect the trend to continue.
Imperfected
Member
Ehh. The white cycle is relatively good for turning on the white god, but not really as good as just dropping an Angel of Invention the next turn or a Pia and Kiran Nalaar or something.
The rest of them are just sort of there. The red ones only help in the very most liberal of sense. (And kind of hurt, because cartouches bounce Trials, and you probably don't want to be playing the cartouche without the Trial since they're otherwise very mediocre enchants.)
I think Maro said some mages and planeswalkers are aware there are different types of Magic and maybe a loose understanding of the color pie, but nothing strictly defined as we outside the lore IRL understand it
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
They used to reference drawing mana from mountains and forests and such. In Chandra and Gideon's novel they went to a plane that suppressed everything but black mana as well.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
That's what I mean, same with the other things - sometimes there are concepts which don't actually make much sense in a specific color, but they just leave them in that color for blue = water reasons, which can be a little weird.
In a sense, sometimes they do, e.g. there was a whole thing about (NIssa?) learning the ways of black mana or whatever. They used to do it more specifically.
SigmasonicX
Member
The story where they arrive on Amonkhet specifically mentions that Nissa and Jace have a hard time casting spells due to the lack of green and blue mana bonds in the desert.
shrapnelmagnet
Member
Oath of Gideon! :|
Oath of ajani curving into Nissa.
shrapnelmagnet
Member
True. Oath tribal.
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