So does new Gideon, and at least he pacifies a permanent for a turn. Nissa either scrys for 2 or MAYBE gets a land or a 1 drop.
I think it'd be a huge mistake to play Nissa at 3 mana when she can't be guaranteed to impact the board.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Magic: the Gathering |OT11| Amonkhet - Have you ever had decks with a Pharaoh?
- Thread starter SigmasonicX
- Start date
- Status
So does new Gideon, and at least he pacifies a permanent for a turn. Nissa either scrys for 2 or MAYBE gets a land or a 1 drop.
I think it'd be a huge mistake to play Nissa at 3 mana when she can't be guaranteed to impact the board.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I don't know if I needed trample but haste would have been hilarious
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
True, forgot it's part of the cost. Dies to Disintegration then.
Yes but that's why Nissa is still in this set for no reason.
The new nissa is an end game card advantage engine imho.
Infinite Stars
Member
Why Nissa though? Like, in what world did anyone ask for yet another fucking Nissa? I don't care if BFZ was supposed to rotate, there's still 2 from Kaladesh.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Isn't Kaladesh Nissa much better if you want that?
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
If it could give itself Trample with its own ability, it would be hilariously awesome.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
She impacts the board by putting a Planeswalker onto the battlefield that rapidly gains loyalty. There's a very large difference between playing a Planeswalker and playing a do-nothing enchantment. The argument that a Planeswalker "doesn't affect the board" rarely makes sense unless the Planeswalker's abilities are all conditional and out of the Planeswalker's control, e.g. Saheeli Rai, whose +1 does nothing in particular, and whose minus has no rational relationship to her +1. You just have to have more dudes for her to do anything.
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
I mean, the body does make things kind of pointless, but it was probably some internal coinflip whether or not to have deathtouch or trample be the active, and going off the current activation cost, +2/0 and deathtouch doesn't make as much sense.
Plus, even if we haven't necessarily seen it yet, the green god is literally 'your shit dies, don't swing into me'. Bigger defensive threat.
I'll believe this when I see it actually happening.
But in all seriousness, got a link?
I mean....yes, but the entire point of the card is either a good control shell, or some way to setup to ensure that you're getting value out of the flip.
That being said, you probably wouldn't play her (often) at one loyalty counter, no.
I'm thinking endgame finisher when you just slam her down for 8 mana and immediately make two Dragon-lands with haste.
At least she has the ability to be played almost whenever you want. That's a big plus.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Elf girls are really popular right now
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I'm guessing you often do want to play it at 3. Because 3 is a very low investment if you have any way at all to protect it, e.g. Heart of Kiran.
OK, remember when I said Oketra was stupid pushed? Rhondas is stupid stupid pushed. Having a 4 power dude or a 2 power dude and 3 spare mana has to be the easiest activation requirement for any of these gods. And he's only 3 mana himself! Hell, they're giving us a 2 mana 4/4 the comes with a couple of -1/-1 counters, so all you need as a 1 drop to pass them on to and you've got a 5/5 indestructible on turn 3!
Deathtouch is eh, but he'd be busted even moreso with Trample.
Deathtouch is eh, but he'd be busted even moreso with Trample.
No because you can get 8 mana, ult, and get two 5/5 haste flyers instantly which can end a game in two turns. She also has the versatility of coming down early and giving you card advantage when the game is stalled or in case you want to hit land drops/bodies to block with. It's worth noting that Saheeli rai's ping ability makes Nissa slightly worse when she comes down early. Swiss army knife planeswalker.
Can't imagine zombies not being a thing now!
Well, looks like my Zombie deck is gonna need four of this guy.
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
Depends on how good your setup is, but probably true.
Yeah, this was kind of my thought as well.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Look at this meta and tell me you should take an 8 mana version into consideration.
KLD Nissa rebuys permanents ults in a single turn and protects herself or swings for 5 the turn she comes down.
Being able to be played at 2 and 4 does add to this Nissa's value but I'm not sure the 8 mana scenario matters much in this meta.
I like this nissa but much more for getting on the board early. I could imagine playing this in Tower decks after having an active tower and holding up protection.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Interesting point. They very well could have written him as "unless you control a non-God creature with power 4 or greater."
The lands turn back into pumpkins at end of turn.
Green god is pretty sweet, but I was expecting the active to give +1/+1 counters instead of temporary +2/+0. Perhaps too optimistic, but when white is getting dude tokens and blue is getting card draws (and red is getting the shaft) +1/+1 counters don't seem too outlandish...
FreedomFrisbee
Member
I thought this was a new thread why is this happening again
Not with -1/-1 counters also being in the set. Last thing they'd want to do is confuse new players by having too many kinds of counters.
Infinite Stars
Member
First Rule of Magic Gaf: Time is Cyclical. We'll be back to discussing things like Nahiri in no time.
Mark designs cards yes. He had no fucking clue how to balance them. See: Urzas Destiny.
3 boxes of mm17 for 400ish?
The meta changes based on the new set's cards. If you think that the format won't change based on Glorybringer/drake haven alone then idk what to tell you. They have also printed tons of Copycat hate in this format. You are really underselling the fact that you can deploy nissa early or late game and recur tons of value off of it. The option is why it's good. We see this all the time on charm type cards like collective brutality/alliance. (both card that numerous people thought were terrible while I bought them for $.50 a piece)
Only single packs at every store I've been to, so it works out to $160 boxes.
I like the card, but this is my thought, too. This could have been a brand new character, and no one would have batted an eye. Besides the final ability, it doesn't even feel like Nissa. Thank goodness they're moving away from Gatewatch Planeswalkers dominating sets with Hour of Devestation.
And yet I still trust his ideas more than anyone in this thread because he has done it before and he sees what design does. Hindsight is 20/20 when designing anything.
I feel the same way. I really like the card design but if they would have replaced the ult this would have no ties to the other nissa cards.
Oh, so this is how CEOs fail upward.
He knows he's bad at this. Admits he's bad at this. Tells you that you shouldn't trust him on this. Yet you trust his offhanded counterspell comment like it's Gospel even though any MTG developer would laugh at the suggestion?
Nissa not being able to protect herself is a negative, but she seems flexible otherwise. I still think you want Jace as Scry 1 and drawing is better than Scry 2, but the fact that you can drop Nissa earlier or later makes her appealing.
Zombie lord is surprisingly cheap and only an uncommon.
Green God is easiest to turn on.
Zombie lord is surprisingly cheap and only an uncommon.
Green God is easiest to turn on.
Parallel Lives got colorshifted. Makes more sense in white.
Makes sense in both baby!
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I see the value in playing her early, I like her at those cmcs. I don't think the 8 mana option should be taken into account much when evaluating her.
Even if Glorybringer does enable new decks it's not exactly a card you'd see slowing down the meta.
Yep. And now I can run both of them in my Ghave EDH deck.
Design != Development
You're free to place your trust where you like even if that person has admitted to having a relatively loose grasp on constructed formats. The rest of us will remain more skeptical regarding some of his comments.
He isn't a CEO, he actually has experience in design, no one in this thread plays MTG at a high level that I'm aware of, I don't trust his word as the gospel but I trust it more than you since you hate almost all the card design in standard and complain endlessly about it, etc. There are many things that I don't like in terms of design such as Battle for Zendikar which I have stated is the worst designed set in the modern era of magic that had rosewater as one of the leads. Yet I still trust his word on design more than you because he has experience and sees both sides. I'm done with this conversation because it's clearly going no where.
Simply Sarah
Member
He's a designer, not a developer. For MtG those are two very very different things. Designing isn't the place where the focus is on raw playability and balance. MaRo is pretty dang open about his weakness in this area.
Eh, the 0 is fairly in line with the +1 on Sage Animist and the crappy Kaladesh PW deck card, Nissa's Revelation from Origins involved scrying and revealing the top card, and Oath of Nissa also involved some top of deck action.
Design. Does. Not. Balance. Cards.
- Status