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Magic: the Gathering |OT11| Amonkhet - Have you ever had decks with a Pharaoh?

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H

Hero

Member
Lucario said:
This... looks even dumber than not banning it. People bought in after the announcement.

I mean, I know it's correct to ban. Everyone has known that was the right move for months now. Nothing changed in the last few days; Wizards didn't magically get new information about the meta.

I have no idea how you justify an emergency ban two days after an announcement other than incompetence.
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kirblar said:
Charlequin's talked about this before, but they're dangerously out of the loop on some things because of their social media policies.
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Gotta say, if they had just said on Monday they were going to wait and see how things panned out on MODO before making a final decision, I would think that was reasonable.

Instead, they didn't even mention it so I'm sure there were lots of players that bought into the deck and two days later the card gets banned.

A lot of people in different departments are fucking up majorly at Wizards.
 
E

ElyrionX

Member
bigkrev said:
So is this an emergency banning?

What changed in the last 48 hours? The card was clearly safe for the format on Monday but now they changed their minds?

It's the right decision, but holy shit why does everything Wizards does seem like they are flailing around with no head?
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That's because they *are* flailing around with no head and they've been like this for the last few years. Wizards is one of the worst-managed companies I've ever seen and believe me, I've seen plenty.
 
B

bigkrev

Member
Btw yesterday was the one year anniversary of them walking back the OP changes/Pay the Pros

This shit has been normalized somehow. They might as well walk back the reserved list because if anyone tried to sue them, they could respond that "we constantly go back on our word, why would you ever believe us?"
 
H

Hero

Member
OnPoint said:
How soon we forget. Phyrexian mana was a huge no no, and infect also wasn't great.
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kirblar said:
P-Mana is great!

Just...not on instants and sorceries holy shit what the fuck were they thinking there.
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OnPoint said:
Right. The same way Delve was great and Affinity was great once they balanced the mechanics or on the cards where didn't fuck them up haha
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To be fair, for as long as the game has been out, I think the cards needing banning overall is pretty low. I would rather have them risk pushing something too far and play with them for a little while and then banning when necessary than making boring cards that I'll never play at all.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Hero said:
Gotta say, if they had just said on Monday they were going to wait and see how things panned out on MODO before making a final decision, I would think that was reasonable.

Instead, they didn't even mention it so I'm sure there were lots of players that bought into the deck and two days later the card gets banned.

A lot of people in different departments are fucking up majorly at Wizards.
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Because everyone would play Guardian if they knew that.
 
S

Simply Sarah

Member
Felidar Guardian just had the bad luck to be printed in a Standard with Saheeli. It's actually a super neat card that can do cool things but instead it's just going to be "that card that broke Standard".

Hero said:
Gotta say, if they had just said on Monday they were going to wait and see how things panned out on MODO before making a final decision, I would think that was reasonable.

Instead, they didn't even mention it so I'm sure there were lots of players that bought into the deck and two days later the card gets banned.

A lot of people in different departments are fucking up majorly at Wizards.
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Bigger issue is that they, somehow, didn't realize how big a mess this was going to be despite everyone else and their mother seeing what was going to happen. Thanks, WotC, for making basically anyone that pays any attention at all to competitive Magic except Paul Rietzl feel like masters of evaluating Standard.
 
O

OnPoint

Member
Simply Sarah said:
Felidar Guardian just had the bad luck to be printed in a Standard with Saheeli. It's actually a super neat card that can do cool things but instead it's just going to be "that card that broke Standard".
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Everyone knows the right card to ban is Saheeli but they will pick the uncommon every time.
 
L

Lucario

Member
GregLombardi said:
Yeah, and you should have recourse. I don't know what to do about that, and they should be criticized for things like this, probably in a large way.

I'm just saying...for standard...this was the right choice.
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It was not excusable to do it late. This is just shitty of WoTC
 
S

Supast4r

Junior Member
Simply Sarah said:
Felidar Guardian just had the bad luck to be printed in a Standard with Saheeli. It's actually a super neat card that can do cool things but instead it's just going to be "that card that broke Standard".



Bigger issue is that they, somehow, didn't realize how big a mess this was going to be despite everyone else and their mother seeing what was going to happen. Thanks, WotC, for making basically anyone that pays any attention at all to competitive Magic except Paul Rietzl feel like masters of evaluating Standard.
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I honestly don't understand why they didn't ban Saheeli over the cat. Guardian actually enables things in standard while Saheeli is useless by itself.
 
H

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Supast4r said:
I honestly don't understand why they didn't ban Saheeli over the cat. Guardian actually enables things in standard while Saheeli is useless by itself.
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You know why. Because planes walkers are super special. Why do you think they didn't ban Gideon?
 
R

red13th

Member
Yes, it's the right thing FOR STANDARD but for so many players it was the WORST possible solution (people thought copycat was safe, I don't blame them tbh). That's why they should have banned it when they announced the goddamned banlist!
 
S

Simply Sarah

Member
red13th said:
Yes, it's the right thing FOR STANDARD but for so many players it was the WORST possible solution (people thought copycat was safe, I don't blame them tbh). That's why they should have banned it when they announced the goddamned banlist!
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Oh, for sure. It's a complete mess and just gives the worst of all worlds.
 
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Imperfected

Member
I prefer the Guardian ban to a Saheeli ban. Aside from Mythic versus Uncommon (and the resulting difference in card value banned), Saheeli's face is on the goddamn promotional materials. They already had to ride that train with Emrakul 2.0, banning the face of a set twice in a row would be such an epic fucking fail that no one would ever let them live it down.

Banning a fairly unspectacular creature that most likely is only even as interesting as it is because someone wanted to make the text on the card fit a little more cleanly is a much less embarrassing move.
 
O

OnPoint

Member
Hero said:
To be fair, for as long as the game has been out, I think the cards needing banning overall is pretty low. I would rather have them risk pushing something too far and play with them for a little while and then banning when necessary than making boring cards that I'll never play at all.
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I was simply arguing that they fucked stuff up in that artifact block too.

Ashodin said:
Saheeli gets hit by association. No one will play her now.
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Right. So they effectively banned two cards. The cat would still see play without her. But because she's mythic we can't upset people.

HK-47 said:
Don't remember it causing standard problems
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I don't think it really did, but it caused problems in Eternal formats as time went on for sure.
 
A

Ashodin

Member
Honestly if you know the deck you're playing is cheesy and/or is based on some ridiculous combo, you should be wary at all times.

Or just build the second best deck in standard.
 
A

ash321

Member
GregLombardi said:
Yeah, and you should have recourse. I don't know what to do about that, and they should be criticized for things like this, probably in a large way.

I'm just saying...for standard...this was the right choice.
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It just ... like .... dude, you have a schedule ban list announcement right ? Fucking stick with it you incompetent knobhead, Jesus.

Time to sleeves up G/R electrostatic pummeler I guess.
^ but I want to actually win/ try to win a tournament you know.
 
S

Supast4r

Junior Member
HK-47 said:
You know why. Because planes walkers are super special. Why do you think they didn't ban Gideon?
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They didn't ban Gideon because he doesn't feel bad to play against. Smugs, reflector mage, and emrakul feel horrible to play against. Even though Gideon is a better card wizards wants attendance at the end of the day.
 
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GregLombardi

Member
Honestly the cat did some stupid things with torrential gearhulk too. Though I guess Saheeli does too? Yeah. I don't know enough about Standard to know which to ban. All I know is that friggin combo had to go. It was horrifying to play against, with , etc.
 
I

Imperfected

Member
It's certainly more than a little bit rude to let a bunch of Online players go out and buy a clutch of new cards to tune up their kitty-cat decks just so you can ban them out a few days later. That's dangerously close to "false bill of goods" territory.
 
H

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Imperfected said:
I prefer the Guardian ban to a Saheeli ban. Aside from Mythic versus Uncommon (and the resulting difference in card value banned), Saheeli's face is on the goddamn promotional materials. They already had to ride that train with Emrakul 2.0, banning the face of a set twice in a row would be such an epic fucking fail that no one would ever let them live it down.

Banning a fairly unspectacular creature that most likely is only even as interesting as it is because someone wanted to make the text on the card fit a little more cleanly is a much less embarrassing move.
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Guardian is amazing with oaths and walkers and etbs. Saheeli is nothing except with glorybringer maybe
 
S

Supast4r

Junior Member
Imperfected said:
I prefer the Guardian ban to a Saheeli ban. Aside from Mythic versus Uncommon (and the resulting difference in card value banned), Saheeli's face is on the goddamn promotional materials. They already had to ride that train with Emrakul 2.0, banning the face of a set twice in a row would be such an epic fucking fail that no one would ever let them live it down.

Banning a fairly unspectacular creature that most likely is only even as interesting as it is because someone wanted to make the text on the card fit a little more cleanly is a much less embarrassing move.
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Emrakul is one of the promotional figures from eldrich moon and she is banned.
 
H

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Supast4r said:
They didn't ban Gideon because he doesn't feel bad to play against. Smugs, reflector mage, and emrakul feel horrible to play against. Even though Gideon is a better card wizards wants attendance at the end of the day.
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What are you talked by about? Gideon sucks to play against. Mage died for Gideon's sins in the uw deck
 
A

Ashodin

Member
This standard is going to be

WILD WILD

Wild_wild_west_poster.jpg
 
S

Supast4r

Junior Member
HK-47 said:
What are you talked by about? Gideon sucks to play against. Mage died for Gideon's sins in the uw deck
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He is oppressive but he doesn't feel bad to play against because he doesn't mess with your permanents. Reflector mage bounces your stuff, smugs is a 3/3 flyer that's ran in everything who looks and emrakul takes over your opponents turn. People HATE playing against powerful cards that take away your permanents.
 
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Imperfected

Member
I feel like Reflector Mage died more for CoCo's sins, and even then more for vindication after the fact than any actual practical value. Basically just purely for optics by the time they finally got around to pulling the trigger.

As far as Felidar Guardian doing "other interesting things", I really don't think he was ever supposed to. Looking at the card, I feel relatively confident in saying it originally read, "target artifact, creature, or land" and someone said, "Hey that's basically all permanents, right? Let's save some text."

Nothing about the card really makes it look like something that should be doing the things it does. I'm pretty sure it was someone's straight-up fuck-up, and as such it's understandable why it would be the card of the pair to eat the boot.
 
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GregLombardi

Member
Guy I'm going back and forth with on fb was in Emrakul then switched to Cat Combo.

He says he's leaving standard for a while. I don't think banning cat is a panacea for the community, but I do think the community will get over it.
 
S

Supast4r

Junior Member
Imperfected said:
I literally said that in the post you're quoting so I have no idea why you're telling me.
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Because she got banned so Saheeli doesn't have so immunity by being on the box. Either way it's useless to talk about it now. It's just sad that guardian flicking oaths/amonkhet enchantments, etc.
 
S

Simply Sarah

Member
Imperfected said:
I feel like Reflector Mage died more for CoCo's sins, and even then more for vindication after the fact than any actual practical value. Basically just purely for optics by the time they finally got around to pulling the trigger.

As far as Felidar Guardian doing "other interesting things", I really don't think he was ever supposed to. Looking at the card, I feel relatively confident in saying it originally read, "target artifact, creature, or land" and someone said, "Hey that's basically all permanents, right? Let's save some text."

Nothing about the card really makes it look like something that should be doing the things it does. I'm pretty sure it was someone's straight-up fuck-up, and as such it's understandable why it would be the card of the pair to eat the boot.
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I mean, whether it should have done what it did is different question. But what it actually did ended up being quite interesting.
 
I

Imperfected

Member
Supast4r said:
Because she got banned so Saheeli doesn't have so immunity by being on the box. Either way it's useless to talk about it now. It's just sad that guardian flicking oaths/amonkhet enchantments, etc.
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Like I literally said in the post you're quoting: banning the face cards of two sets in a row would basically just be coming straight out and admitting they're the most monumental fuck-ups on the planet. Banning off just some doofy Uncommon that got mangled in development doesn't look anywhere near as bad.
 
H

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Supast4r said:
He is oppressive but he doesn't feel bad to play against because he doesn't mess with your permanents. Reflector mage bounces your stuff, smugs is a 3/3 flyer that's ran in everything who looks and emrakul takes over your opponents turn. People HATE playing against powerful cards that take away your permanents.
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Lol gideon is a planeswalker that shits out blockers, an indestructible beat stick and an unremovable anthem. That's not fun.
 
S

Supast4r

Junior Member
The Technomancer said:
Batterskull and half of Caw Blade

Okay I guess most of that is Stoneforge
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Batterskull should have gotten banned because wizards blatantly admitted that they created batterskull to be abused with Mystic. Mystic did nothing oppressive prior to batterskulls printing. I feel the same way about Mystics position in modern. And don't give me that "they can print better equipment to be abused by it." Living weapon + the ability to bounce the artifact at instant speed as well as its pushed stats are why that skull is dumb. What are the chances that they print an ability that has all of those abilities on another artifact? I highly doubt it.
 
B

Black_Red

Member
Is there a good web (or youtuber but I prefer to read) to learn about pro game?.
I'm just learning the game (I'm playing the steam game and I went to Amonkhet pre-release) and I dont have enough money to go wild buying cards, so I'd like to define my deck (or at least a good idea of a decent deck) before buying the cards.

PD: To be clear, I dont want to just copy a deck from a site, but I'd like some analysis of tournament games or deck discussion to learn how to make some of those decisions.

Right now I think I want to go with a Red/green deck, but I dont know how to avoid emptying my hand (or maybe I should use that with cards like the Red amonkhet god or the minotaurs).
 
S

SigmasonicX

Member
Wow, didn't expect that. This is definitely far worse than just banning it on Monday (and that would have been worse than banning it the last opportunity, and the one before that), but at least now I can actually see interesting stuff in the Pro Tour.

Do you think we should temporarily change the thread title until the end of the week? To "Standard saved, Felidar banned!"?
 
S

Supast4r

Junior Member
HK-47 said:
Lol gideon is a planeswalker that shits out blockers, an indestructible beat stick and an unremovable anthem. That's not fun.
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Every pushed value permanent is unfun to fight against. For example: Elspeth sun champion was WAY more oppressive to fight against. The only difference is that heros downfall/other good removal was in that format. Idk what to say but wizards/casuals hate having their permanents removed on pushed cards. Why do you think that removal is garbage now? Why hate cards are garbage? Why land hate is nonexistant? It's because of the reasons why I stated.
 
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