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Magic: the Gathering |OT12| Hour of Devastation - Hour of Jace getting dunked on
- Thread starter SigmasonicX
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blindrocket
Member
I understand this. Fourth most played non-land card where the first three most played cards are all Blue spells. Most played creature followed by Delver of Secrets (by about 20% according to MTGGoldfish) and Baleful Strix.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
DRS is way too colour fluid card and as long as he's in the game Legacy will skew towards 4c good stuff.
FreedomFrisbee
Member
If we ban Deathrite, that means we might get to ban Brainstorm one day!
GP Vegas did not turn into the combo winter many expected, but it was just one event. Regardless of which side of the fence I end up being on in the end, I do think we could use a few more major Legacy events, which aren't exactly common occurrences these days, before they deliberate over a possible DRS ban. Eternal weekend should come and go before any changes are considered, and I'm curious how the legacy portion of that event will play out.
This is a strawman argument. Deathrite shaman does everything a player would want a creature to do in a format with fetchlands. Brainstorm: makes legacy as a format lot more consistent rather than a format that can feel random at times (modern/standard), allows blue to properly police problematic combo decks by allowing interactive decks to find answers, it's a very skill intensive card, brainstorm is horrible without a shuffle effect since you can get brainstorm locked out of the game, etc. The card adds a lot of skill and consistency to the format and without it, the format gets a lot more random and loses a lot of what makes legacy the format that it is today.
DRS won't get banned for a LONG time. It's similar to how they handled sensei's divining top in that it won't get banned since the card isn't pushing any deck to oppressive levels. Popular tier 1 decks like Grixis delver/4 color control will have to have a lot of top 8s at high stake tournaments in order to have a ban actually happen.
Imperfected
Member
Didn't see this posted yet. Seems.... ok. Not too great, but not terrible. Could be good against a control deck if cast early at least.
It's fun in Amonkhet block-specific -1/-1 counters decks (Hepatra, Nest of Scarabs, etc.) because you're the one putting the counter on the Ammit in response to the opponent's casting trigger, yeah?
Brainstorm is effectively Ancestral recall and it is both the reason 4c stuff was always viable (easy to run 19 lands 4c when you run 4 Ancestrals) and the reason a lot of combo lists are viable too (SnT would be straight unplayable and storm would be way worse without draw 3 and anti-discard instant spell). Brainstorm is also the reason top got banned. Brainstorm doesn't help consistency, it make consistency a joke. Ponder/Preordain/Portent are consistency cards, brainstorm is a draw 3. You may as well unban ancestral in legacy for the sake of "consistency" then.
Legacy has been a "ban everything except brainstorm" for years now so much that it's a joke. It's way worse than the "ban everything except necro". And spare me the "skill" part. If anything , Brainstorm is by far the easiest "cantrip" to use as long as you have a fetch.
Legacy should ban DRS and die at this point. The top ban was a joke.
Imperfected
Member
The strongest argument against Brainstorm when compared to most other draw-fixing cards is that at least not having Brainstorm means there's such a thing as a bad hand for Miracles (woops, all Terminus!), whereas with Brainstorm a bad hand just transforms effortlessly into a good hand on demand.
Top made legacy events consistently run over time for years. Fuck that card, it has the grave it deserves.
DRS will go eventually, it makes color fixing too easy and warps things, same as it did in Modern.
Brainstorm will never be banned, cause the format's blue vs the world. And that's fine.
DRS will go eventually, it makes color fixing too easy and warps things, same as it did in Modern.
Brainstorm will never be banned, cause the format's blue vs the world. And that's fine.
Big Icarus
Member
Man, these Aftermath rares aside from Cut//Ribbons, and maybe Insult//Injury are pretty much uniformly awful. In general everything in Hour I've seen has basically been over costed by at least one and is typically nothing but Commander jank. Set looks like the lowest power level for constructed I've seen since Born of the Gods. I disliked Amonket initially too, but came around after some of the week two spoilers.
Hopefully there's some decent stuff in the next week we've yet to see, because right now the set looks like trash. I'm saying that as someone who doesn't play Commander, so I don't care if the 6 drop legendaries with a 3 CMC activated ability are great in Commander.
The magic thread cycle, everyone!
Quote "events".
And it was not top going to time, it was miracles. Brainstorm being gone would've killed miracle just as top, if not more. With the difference that it would've nerfed significantly 4c goodstuff, killed SnT off the planet, and nerfed storm as well, instead of streamlining the format in 4c tempo like top going did.
Fixed. Also, DRS is at 40% penetration vs 80% of brainstorm, is much more easier to answer (creature vs instant), and give fair decks an angle to interact with unfair ones via maindeckable grave hate. But DRS is the problem, sure.
EDIT: refuse cost FOUR lol. It would be borderline playable at 1 and a strictly sb card at 2. Good riddance red.
Big Icarus
Member
You play a lot of Standard, based on your posts. I don't know if you play Modern or Legacy much, but honestly; I'm curious what cards you find exciting from this set?
The only ones I'm interested in a little are Bolas, and Solemnity. I really don't see much otherwise that looks like it'd go into any constructed decks.
Edit: Actually, I forgot about Ramunap Excavator. I'm legitimately excited for that card and would like to brew with that. Otherwise I stand by my points. Nimble Obstructionist is okay too, although, not great.
What is this, the 4th grade?
Of course it's an opinion. A card can only be a problem if it see enough play to become one. Top isn't a problem in vintage and wasn't a problem in legacy until miracle became a mechanic. Stasis is another absurdly durdly card that create non-games and no one seriously ask for a banning of stasis. There are tons of said cards in magic.
This wasn't happened time after time or year after year. This is purely revisionist history. Countertop was just another deck and a fringe one before miracles. The format was dominated by goblins and threshold for years while top was legal, who knew?
GP NJ went horribly, horribly over time explicitly because of the deck. (source: I was there)
Stasis doesn't cause issues in events because Stasis is trash.
Miracles was a T1 deck that caused enough bad players to pick up Miracles that it caused problems. Yes, durdly cards that are pure shit aren't issues in tournaments because real players punch those players out of the tournament. Not so with Miracles and Top.
The card was explicitly banned in both Extended and Modern for causing issues w/ time management for judges, TOs, and players, and it finally got its well-deserved axe in Legacy that was years too late.
You can have another opinion. But your opinion will be wrong.
I mainly just play limited, so I feel like a lot of the discussion in this thread is lost on me and it's entirely possible I'm missing something, but I don't see how that card is good in any format. Refuse is so expensive and does so little, even a good bottom half seems just weighed down completely by it.
Imperfected
Member
There's decks that can just dump it in the GY and play only the second half, though admittedly most of them run too lean on mana to do much with it.
Here's a quick list of cards I'm excited for from the spoiler
I don't know what your gauge is here, are you less accepting on SB cards vs. Maindeck? Anyway, here's the list.
The Scarab God and The Locust God look like solid top-ends for the decks that want them. They're not setting the world on fire, but they'll do incredible things, and you have to exile them to stop them from coming back.
In the same vein, Neheb the Eternal seems like a really powerful card in the right deck, and I look forward to brewing with him.
The defeat cards will absolutely see play (most likely, Gideon or Liliana ones) in the sideboards.
Speaking more of sideboards, Abrade looks to be an incredible change up of cards depending on the matchup which you can swap some burn out for artifact destruction. Crook of Condemnation shuts down graveyard decks and they will hate you (GB Delirium is nearly dead), plus Solemnity hates hard on GW Nissa decks. Both of those previously mentioned fit into my current deck's sideboard and I'm happy for hosers.
I'm actually eyeballing Vizier of the True because exert -> tap feels really good.
Oh and Wildfire Eternal seems REALLY good.
Doesn't DRS make 4c just as viable if not moreso? Wasteland is a thing and DRS can dodge that. In the past, you rarely saw 4c decks and everyone played Brainstorms as well. It's only after DRS and Leovold, that people got super greedy with the mana base. I don't think Brainstorm is to blame here.
It's a fair point but I do think the whole time limit issue is a huge flaw of the game. Players should be allowed to take as damn long as they want and players shouldn't be able to lose games that they can clearly win just because the other player took his own sweet time.
What do you propose for a solution in a tournament setting?
What are you talking about? Brainstorm gives NO card advantage while ancestral recall puts you up 2 cards. If you think brainstorm is ancestral recall then put it in a deck with no shuffling and come back to me. Legacy has had almost no bans as a format because it's been a great format because of the cards that make legacy the format that it is. Legacy is a wasteland/brainstorm/force of will format and that will never change. Asking for a brainstorm is like asking for a thoughtsize ban in modern. It will never happen and it's not worth discussing. Your comments make me believe that you have never played legacy.
I'm not questioning the top ban but I feel like a counterbalance ban made more sense to me since that is the cancerous lock in the deck that nothing else used.
When is the full set spoiled? Looking forward to the pre pre-release this weekend. I watched the last one but since I didn't really play prior to pre-release weekend for Amonkhet I felt like I didn't grasp more than just the rules. Have they announced who will be on the stream?
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
friday but there's usually just draft stuff left.
They did announce them Marshall again, TJ from geekfortress and some others.
They did announce them Marshall again, TJ from geekfortress and some others.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
This set seems kind of half assed to me.
Mirage Mirror is sure to be a breakout hit.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Sensei's Divining Top allows you to make complex, challenging, potentially game-altering decisions multiple times per turn for the cost of only one mana. Of course it chews up the tournament clock. It should have been banned long ago. Yes, it's a sweet card. Not it's not necessarily overpowered. But it logistically ruins tournaments. Second Sunrise got banned for the same reason in Moderns - Eggs was not too good, but it completely shattered tournament logistics and had to go.
SigmasonicX
Member
For comparison:
In the latter's case, it's strictly better.
Didn't see this posted yet. Seems.... ok. Not too great, but not terrible. Could be good against a control deck if cast early at least.
In the latter's case, it's strictly better.
FreedomFrisbee
Member
I mean, that you're having to qualify your scenario shows that you know that in a deck with fetches brainstorm is an effective draw 3. You also don't seem to realize that combo decks benefit a lot from having brainstorm, but we're at least being polite about it and not accusing you of 'never playing legacy' because of it.
If they're starting to ban cards that have been legal for years and have a warping effect on the format, then we will eventually get to brainstorm.
Oh, and top causing matches to go to time was explicitly stated as a reason for its banning. Lets not pretend otherwise.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Brainstorm is only a draw 3 when you have a full hand.
Otherwise it's just the best cantrip with a fetch.
Otherwise it's just the best cantrip with a fetch.
It's not a draw 3 because it's not putting three new cards in your hand. Draw three = net two cards. This doesn't do that hence why it isn't a draw three since it's not card advantage. This is NOT a debate. Brainstorm is just as powerful as wasteland in legacy and both of those cards are what make the format legacy. They aren't getting banned so this is a waste of time talking about it. I would rather talk about banning fatal push in modern because that sounds less ridiculous.
Remembrance
Member
It's fine as long as Opalescence isn't in standard
ThLunarian
Member
They did it. They actually reprinted Humility.
They must -really- have it out for Judges
Isn't there a witch that lets you search a curse out of your library and put it directly into play?
They just printed Saheeli Rai and Felidar Guardian in back-to-back sets, what gives you faith that we won't get something like Opalescence in the next few months.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
and people already want Iona banned in EDH.
They did it. They actually reprinted Humility.
They must -really- have it out for Judges
Remembrance
Member
Being saved for Return to Theros, surely.
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