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Magic: The Gathering |OT3| Enchantment Under the Siege
- Thread starter The Technomancer
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The new Cube still has plenty of clunkers but it is a massive upgrade on previous lists. You can even pretty easily seem some of the archetypes in play though even then there are some weird omission/inclusions (B/G dredge is obviously a supported deck but I don't see Bonehoard or Life from the Loam)
As for a Cube product, I think they should be tournament legal cards, none of this Gold bordered crap. However you don't need to fill the products with Jaces and other 80-+ dollar cards. Heck I'd probably design the product like this:
Doing it this way achieves the following:
Due to its singleton nature, Dig is WAY better in Cube than Treasure Cruise. It's a power level concern but more for Treasure Cruise being kind of weak rather than too strong.
Are we really complaining about the shuffler? Variance due to the mana system can be annoying and it sucks you had a bad time(s) but MTGO isn't screwing you over in this regard and it's not a legit complaint to levy against the program (of which there are literally ZILLIONS)
As for a Cube product, I think they should be tournament legal cards, none of this Gold bordered crap. However you don't need to fill the products with Jaces and other 80-+ dollar cards. Heck I'd probably design the product like this:
- 260~ Legacy/Vintage legal commons/uncommons but none from most recent set
- 40~ Lands but of any rarity (so Rav shocks, Pain lands, whatever)
- 40~ Brand new cards legal in Legacy/Vintage but with their design targeted to help the Cube format rather than 40 Legacy hate bears or whatever (Also nice hook for those who already have Cubes)
- 4-6 boosters from the most recent set to encourage playgroup customization
- Dice, tokens, sleeves and a nice sturdy box for easy transport (wood or metal)
Doing it this way achieves the following:
- Keep the cost "reasonable" - for a new Cube it's more important to get 80 $1 cards that are staples rather than one Jace or Revised Dual (though Reserve List stops that anyway)
- Have an experience that is easy to set up out of the box
- Have an experience that will still differ from box to box but not in a way that makes any of the new cards hard to get. A big part of Cubing is that no two Cubes are ever the same even if they share tons of cards.
- Keeping the Cube mostly Peasant gives a lot of room for playgroups to improve it over time if they want with Rares & Mythics.
Other cube thoughts:
1) White has five anthems. Holy crap. Six if you count Hall of Triumph.
2) Blue gets Dig Through Time, but not Treasure Cruise (heh).
3) Pestermite/Exarch/Conscripts and Kiki-Jiki/Splinter Twin are in the cube. None of the easy tutors (even the Legacy-legal Enlightened and Worldly Tutor) are, however. But you can Gifts, Dig, Intuition, etc. That's going to be a fun deck to try to piece together now that the cube is smaller.
4) I really like that all of the God weapons are in the Cube; they're powerful, but also really interesting to play with.
5) Song of the Dryads is in the cube
6) Summoning Trap is kind of a sweet inclusion, actually. I really like it.
7) It looks like the Temples are replacing the bad fetchlands (at least, I don't think the Temples were in the cube before). It feels like an obvious fix. Also the filterlands aren't in.
8) Love the extra gold cards.
9) Love the extra planeswalkers too. It feels like you can build Planeswalker Control again, which you haven't really been able to for a while.
I really want to draft this now. And it comes in November? And I assume we see Holiday Cube after that? It looks like my time with Khans might be coming to an end sooner than I thought.
Due to its singleton nature, Dig is WAY better in Cube than Treasure Cruise. It's a power level concern but more for Treasure Cruise being kind of weak rather than too strong.
Are we really complaining about the shuffler? Variance due to the mana system can be annoying and it sucks you had a bad time(s) but MTGO isn't screwing you over in this regard and it's not a legit complaint to levy against the program (of which there are literally ZILLIONS)
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Randomness is in fact random.
Looter is a completely ridiculous limited card- you used to take it super early even over insane removal.
GamerKingFaiz
Member
How do you miss triggers in MTGO? MTGO does the triggers for you! Do you mean you miss on using activated abilities?
Yeah, I've found that my experience with MTGO has actually made me more aware of triggers during paper games.
Misclicks hitting no or wrong targets or whatever lol
Even in mirrodin?
Tempest block has flame wave.
I know looter il kor wasn't a first pick most of the time.
What are your thoughts on academy raider?
Merfolk Looter (and looters of that power level) don't "break" Magic but they are VERY good cards. Cube power level cards. They aren't the type of cards you can print at common nowadays just due to the obscene card flow they provide. Academy Raider costs one more, has to deal combat damage and has t discard first. Its so not even remotely comparable I don't even know why you brought it up 
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Going off in a Vintage Tendrils deck is some serious cackle-inducing shit
divisionbyzorro
Member
Pretty sure the combo deck that's most fun to watch go off is actually Tin Fins.
Scratch that: Lab Manic Doomsday is the best.
charlequin
Banned
Or buy/borrow them from major single vendors, yes.
I don't think you can do a satisfying tournament-legal full Cube product, but I'd probably buy a Cube Starter Kit with a big selection of staple C/U/R cards and a nice box to keep them in.
They're still allowed to print them at other sizes!
Because there's limited safe design space there. Having the types on them is very, very good.
There are some other lands, like Murmuring Bosk, Dryad Arbor and the cycle in Shadowmoor. Going forward, I could definitely see them printing plenty of lands with a single basic land type. Fetching utility lands doesn't cause too many issues. Fetching to fix mana super easily can become pretty busted, especially en masse.
"God's Beard!"
Member
In bizzare fashion, I went 0-3 in draft and won standard tonight. I did get to play against Ivan a bit which is cool because I hadn't played against him with the current version of his deck.
I'd be interested in a cycle along the lines of Murmuring Bosk.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
I mean, this would likely be what they do, simply to their cautious nature, but this would be the absolute most boring way to do a pre-packaged cube.
- The entire point of cubing is to play with powerful cards that you may not have A) had a chance to play with or B) otherwise couldn't afford or C) have no real reason to spend 10,000 bucks on a piece of cardboard that they'd never be able to play with. Everybody should get the chance to cast a Lotus, once in their lives. Hell, even JTMS is beyond the reach of a vast majority of players.
- Restricting recent sets is sort of silly. There are cards that would warrant legitimate spots, and the product would have to have a hook for newer players too. I, as a salty veteran, may already have an Falkenrath Aristocrats, but maybe somebody who started after that would be stoked to get a cube with that.
- There is no difficulty in setting it up out of the box either way. Magic is Magic.
- Any cube, whether the pie-in-the-sky "power" cube or your quasi-peasant cube would be the same at the start, as it's a pre-packaged product. Much like the commander decks, nothing is stopping people from making changes after that. But either way, it begins the same way for everybody.
- If you're talking about randomizing the included cards, this at least makes sense, even if it's still a terrible idea. Talk about the feel-bad of the year to open a cube that has 8 copies of Elite Vanguard, while your buddy opens 2 Awesome Badass Cards. They would absolutely have to handle it like every single other precon products.
- Again, nothing would stop people from customizing their own cubes. People strip apart the commander deck, mess with the precon event decks, etc.
- Boosters don't belong near a cube. They're separate ideas. That's more along the lines of their fat packs and holiday gift sets.
charlequin
Banned
Dual lands with basic types are insanely strong, basically. They can't do it all the time so they've saved it for really appealing cycles. I'm sure we'll see one besides the shocks eventually but not super soon.
Oh god it's true.
How would people feel about a dual that comes into play tapped unless you reveal two cards of the respective colors. Its not a guarantee to work, forks over a lot of info too.
The problem is, there's just one type out there now that is Modern-legal which makes the manabase for Modern rather mundane to construct. I don't see how lands that come into play tapped, like scrylands, will be overpowered if they also had the basic land types attached to them.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";137256391]In bizzare fashion, I went 0-3 in draft and won standard tonight.[/QUOTE]Last Friday I played Standard and went 0-3. I played draft and went 3-0. R/W Burn got beat up pretty bad, but drafting Zombies at a Halloween chaos draft (one pack of each Innistrad block) went pretty well.
The lesson of the night is that R/W Burn is going away for a while and U/B Control is getting sleeved up again. I played a guy that maindecked 4 Anger of the Gods. Doesn't make sense for a bigger tournament, but if you know your FNM meta is going aggro on you, it's a good call.
The lesson of the night is that R/W Burn is going away for a while and U/B Control is getting sleeved up again. I played a guy that maindecked 4 Anger of the Gods. Doesn't make sense for a bigger tournament, but if you know your FNM meta is going aggro on you, it's a good call.
divisionbyzorro
Member
UWR Control (better example)
Play Flooded Strand Turn 1, holding up Lightning Bolt
a) Opponent passes turn. I crack fetch for Temple of Enlightenment and Scry 1 for free.
b) Opponent plays a Birds. I crack fetch for Steam Vents and Bolt the bird.
Yes, that is too good.
That's the best case scenario. Obviously it works well being fetched end of turn 1. But how about top decking it when you need a land on turn 4 to combo off? It comes into played tapped and you delay your combo by a turn. The scry effect isn't powerful enough to justify running too many of these since Modern is such a fast and powerful format.
divisionbyzorro
Member
The fact that it's fetchable almost entirely negates the downside you just mentioned - you can play it as a one-of or two-of and get it when you have nothing else to do with your mana. That's really good. Too good.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Yeah, it's more of a "happen all the time" sort of scenario, actually. Modern has to be real careful in order to not turn into Legacy. I mean, the odds are that it will eventually, but they have to try to stave it off as long as possible. As kirblar mentioned, lands are the most powerful card in Magic and have to be regulated super strictly.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Opening hand: Time Vault - Black Lotus - Dark Ritual - Underground Sea - Voltaic Key - Force of Will - Gush
*evilgrin*
*evilgrin*
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Imagine manlands are fetchable.
Dryad Arbor :shhhhhhhh:
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Is Modern Masters 2 still happening
Yes. They're being slow to release set names and such this year (despite Dragons of Tarkir RELEASING IN MARCH) so I'm expecting a Xmas MM2 reveal at this point.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
There is literally no way MMA2 isn't happening. It was one of the biggest hits in company history. You don't ignore a success of that size.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Also, why does Toxic Deluge cost more to buy in tickets than it costs to buy the deck it comes in on MODO where there's an unlimited supply
divisionbyzorro
Member
The MTGO economy is all sorts of fucked up is why.
I'm telling you - the only thing MTGO is good for is drafting.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
And testing when you know the other players aren't scrubs.
Or playing your stupid Johnny decks. Zombies for lyfe.
Or playing your stupid Johnny decks. Zombies for lyfe.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Its great for durdling (or playing Vintage, although that's gotten less good recently =-( )
Tested the heroic combo deck with Meletis Astronomer yesterday, and it gets pretty ludicrous. Dragon Mantle into Retraction Helix, bouncing the Dragon Mantle to play it again digs fourteen cards deep for Jeskai Ascendancy.
I'm pretty sure it's not what you want to be doing in every matchup -- beating down with Seeker would be better a lot of the time -- but against decks where you need to resolve Ascendancy in order to win, it's amazing.
If you're playing the stock list, try cutting the Jeskai Charms for two Astronomers, and let me know what you think.
I'm pretty sure it's not what you want to be doing in every matchup -- beating down with Seeker would be better a lot of the time -- but against decks where you need to resolve Ascendancy in order to win, it's amazing.
If you're playing the stock list, try cutting the Jeskai Charms for two Astronomers, and let me know what you think.
When I say tournament-legal, I just mean that the cards aren't Gold bordered so that you could, for example pull out a Lightning Bolt from your Cube if you need one for a Modern deck. Are you saying you can't have a fun Cube without cards that cost over $20 dollars each? I have to disagree there.
Do Modern manabases need more fixing? After maxing out on Rav shocklands, you'd probably want basics anyway to dodge Blood Moon or other nonbasic hate and to have lands that always come into play untapped if you have to fetch on your turn.
- I think you misread some of the things I wrote. I was saying the Cube product should contain cards from all sets EXCEPT the most recent ones (so if it was released now have no Khans cards in it).
- Jace et al. are cool and all but they aren't required to have a good Cube experience. My unpowered Cube is worth upwards of $4000 and it has no revised Duals in it. However, I've been working on it for years and it holds cards from basically every point in time in which I've played Magic. You can split $4000 over several years (especially since I was able to open, trade or win many of these cards). You can't sell a product for that much and expect anyone, even a playgroup, to bite.
- Making the cards Gold-bordered lowers their appeal and value significantly and would turn off a lot of people. Being able to resell the cards or pull a card out for a tournament (especially in an older format) is a boon.
- I'd only randomize the booster packs, not the pre-packaged cards. I see the product being better served as something like a "Hamburger Helper" than just a straight up mass produced Cube product. I don't think doing it the other way is wrong persay, I just think empathizing the customization aspect of Cube, especially on newer players who might be unaware or thing there is such a thing as a perfect Cube, is a good thing.
GamerKingFaiz
Member
I've heard this site mentioned before, how fast are the turn around times?
"God's Beard!"
Member
Why are there so many shipping lines on pucatrade going to Sao Tome and Principe? You'd think that a country that can only produce 10% of the food they need for their people and a government decided by capture the flag you'd have more problems than establishing a magic community.
charlequin
Banned
Well, I mean, how are you going to make them competitive with the shocks? If they're just worse it doesn't fix the Modern problem you're describing. And if they are, that means they're also amongst the best dual-lands printed since the originals.
I'm not saying a cube can't be fun to play without tons of expensive cards, but unless it's advertised as a pauper cube I don't think any pre-built product of 500+ cards they could actually sell could really be satisfying.
It will 100% be limited, though it's quite conceivable they'll noticeably increase the limit compared to last time.
manipulate
Member
...is this free money?
I'm sure it actually helped with a lot of cards in the long run, but damn looking at prices of tarmogoyf and all that jazz it doesn't feel like MM helped at all lol. I'll be buying a case of MMA2 more than likely if I can.
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