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[divisionbyzorro]

I'm building it, still several money cards away. I think I'll only have it finished in a few months. I'll wait to see what MM2 brings to the table too.
I took a 540 modern list (I didn't know how to search for smaller cubes, yeah) and cut several cards to get to 360. It's not "my cube" in that sense but it started as a bigger one so there might be less-than-adequate choices because of that. divisonbyzorro helped a lot by spotting some subpar cards and since I'm still building the deck I have leeway when it comes to replacements.

Thanks for the tips! Since the cube is small I'm also aiming for cards that can fit several decks which is why I added a lot of hybrids. Trying to steer away from CC or CCC costs but sometimes it's hard to do that, for instance white 2 drops (several WW) and 3 drops in general.

The high amount of hybrids is because since the cube is small I wanted cards to be less narrow. It comes at a price though, as you said, Selesnya in particular is the biggest offender IMO (so many GW cards I wanted in). Dimir is another weird mix because I really wanted Tezzeret for artifact deck but he doesn't really go well with Specter and Far/Away... some stuff is bugging me. Card choices are definitely not set in stone anyway, my only true pet card is SoFI (and SFM to a lesser extent) which is shoe in.

A few more thoughts after looking at the cube some more:

1) White weenie strategies are often mono-white; don't shy away from good WW cards, just don't overdo it. A card that could be considered that I don't see here is Spectral Rider, although that's really just kind of a pet card for me.

2) I like Ronom Unicorn type cards over Kor Sanctifiers, to be honest.

3) Porcelain Legionnaire is neither a three-drop nor a white card. I have it as a colorless 2-drop in my cube, considering how often the card is drafted and played in non-white aggro decks. At the very least, tell Cube Tutor to classify it as a 2-drop for the purposes of looking at your curves.

4) I don't like Wall of Reverence, personally. I don't like Mikaeus the Lunarch either. I don't have any other options to suggest just yet.

5) I think you're really going to regret having the full Splinter Twin combo in a 360 card deck. I think it'll be the best possible thing you could do and will just warp the cube experience in a negative way since every card gets opened every time in an 8-man. I would suggest taking them out.

6) I have an irrational hatred of Aetherling, and you have four of the other five titans. Just play Frost Titan; the card is actually pretty good.

7) Damnation is $$$, but feels like it's missing. Anger of the Gods feels like it's missing too.

8) Golgari is notoriously difficult to set up for cube, but even still I don't think Deathrite Shaman is really cubeable. Abrupt Decay would probably be better.

Whatever you end up doing, update your Cube Tutor list and I'll do some more mock drafts of it. The draft bots have to be taught how to draft it on order to get reasonable results, but once they are, you can get a reasonable feel for how the cube drafts.

 

[y2dvd]

Not the greatest to bring back tapped and attacking, to be honest.

Hordeling Outburst will still be a thing so it should still be a good target.

Random sweet things I could think of to bring back (across all formats):

Bane of Progress
Trostani's Summoner
Hornet Queen
Bear's Companion
Big Game Hunter
Splicers
Huntmaster of the Fells
Knight of the Reliquary
Mardu Hordechief (in Limited, this sounds pretty sweet).
Ponyback Brigade (also sweet in Limited)

Other not so bad targets (std):
Akroan Hoplite - In some aggro boros deck, why not?
Battle Brawler
Borderland Marauder
Flamewake Phoenix - Bring it back for less lol.
Frenzied Goblin
Hushwing Gryff
Mardu Skullhunter
Mogis's Marauder - !!!
Spiteful Returned

I imagine you want to stick to 2 colors with Alesha. I'd run it in the R/B aggro and R/W aggro would rather run Monastery Mentor.

 

[Yeef]

Hordeling Outburst will still be a thing so it should still be a good target.

Rabblemasters pump doesn't trigger unless it's declared as an attacker. Bringing it back via Alesha, it'll always be attacking as a 2/2.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Hordeling Outburst will still be a thing so it should still be a good target.



Other not so bad targets (std):
Akroan Hoplite - In some aggro boros deck, why not?
Battle Brawler
Borderland Marauder
Flamewake Phoenix - Bring it back for less lol.
Frenzied Goblin
Hushwing Gryff
Mardu Skullhunter
Mogis's Marauder - !!!
Spiteful Returned

I imagine you want to stick to 2 colors with Alesha. I'd run it in the R/B aggro and R/W aggro would rather run Monastery Mentor.

If a creature comes into play attacking, believe it or not, it never "attacked." So Rabblemaster's attack trigger won't happen.

 

[Wichu]

So I finally got my 60th morph token. 60 morph tokens + clear-backed sleeves = fun times.

Now I just need 15 more for my sideboard. And then maybe 25 more for EDH.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Based on this Doug Beyer post

 

[Haly]

Sorin is so moe.

 

[red13th]

A few more thoughts after looking at the cube some more:

1) White weenie strategies are often mono-white; don't shy away from good WW cards, just don't overdo it. A card that could be considered that I don't see here is Spectral Rider, although that's really just kind of a pet card for me.

2) I like Ronom Unicorn type cards over Kor Sanctifiers, to be honest.

3) Porcelain Legionnaire is neither a three-drop nor a white card. I have it as a colorless 2-drop in my cube, considering how often the card is drafted and played in non-white aggro decks. At the very least, tell Cube Tutor to classify it as a 2-drop for the purposes of looking at your curves.

4) I don't like Wall of Reverence, personally. I don't like Mikaeus the Lunarch either. I don't have any other options to suggest just yet.

5) I think you're really going to regret having the full Splinter Twin combo in a 360 card deck. I think it'll be the best possible thing you could do and will just warp the cube experience in a negative way since every card gets opened every time in an 8-man. I would suggest taking them out.

6) I have an irrational hatred of Aetherling, and you have four of the other five titans. Just play Frost Titan; the card is actually pretty good.

7) Damnation is $$$, but feels like it's missing. Anger of the Gods feels like it's missing too.

8) Golgari is notoriously difficult to set up for cube, but even still I don't think Deathrite Shaman is really cubeable. Abrupt Decay would probably be better.

Whatever you end up doing, update your Cube Tutor list and I'll do some more mock drafts of it. The draft bots have to be taught how to draft it on order to get reasonable results, but once they are, you can get a reasonable feel for how the cube drafts.

1) Hmm. Not sure about that one, and I'm not sure what I'd take out.
2) I don't like Kor Sanctifiers at all, so expensive, that's why I added Relic Warder (which isn't ideal since he doesn't kill the artifact/enchantment but is a 2 drop). Ronom Unicorn would be a given if it also killed artifacts.
3) Oh you can do that. I didn't realise. I'll put it as a white 2 drop then.
4) Wall of Reverence is kinda just there, I thought of Ranger of Eos in its place (solely because of the mana cost, they have completely different functions) but I don't have any yet. Mikaeus was a crappy attempt at creature-based anthems but yeah he seems clunky and slow. Could be Intangible Virtue maybe.
5) I kind of wanted some combo element in the cube, you think having twin is too much? I could take out Exarch and leave only Zealots/Pestermite/Resto with Kiki. Or maybe take out the enchantment and leave only Kiki. I like Kiki. I also had Archangel of Thune and Spike Feeder. Now that I added Tooth and Nail I kind of want them back in, heh.
6) I kind of like Aetherling better than the Titan I suppose but could work.
7) Damnation would come in for Black Sun's Zenith if I had the $$, I have no idea why I didn't add Anger of the Gods.
8) I had Deathrite as sort of graveyard hate, but it is super narrow.

Just updated with some of your suggestions and Thassa, which I hadn't added yet.

 

[Wichu]

3) Oh you can do that. I didn't realise. I'll put it as a white 2 drop then.

It's not really white, though. You can play it in any colour deck - it's only marginally better in a white deck.

 

[Toxi]

Delicious. This thing is built to be a fun general.

It should still go to the bottom of the library instead of exile. :/

Eh, beggars can't be choosers.

 

[charlequin]

Eh, beggars can't be choosers.

I don't want them to do these effects at all! I WAS NOT BEGGING IN THE FIRST PLACE

 

[Matriox]

Delicious. This thing is built to be a fun general.

Yeah it will probably be my next for sure. Whether to make it for edh or tiny leaders though..

 

[narcosis219]

Delicious. This thing is built to be a fun general.

Eh, beggars can't be choosers.

What are the rules for generals again? I thought you can't have any other mana symbols appearing in a card that is not part of the general's CMC in the deck.

 

[Matriox]

What are the rules for generals again? I thought you can't have any other mana symbols appearing in a card that is not part of the general's CMC in the deck.

Used to be that way, changed a little bit ago, now you use the color identity which is found on the cost as well as the abilities. For example, memnarch is a blue general and Bosh iron golem is red.

 

[The Technomancer]

Somehow I opened Sorin and a Hooded Hydra and got passed a foil Duneblast and still wound up with kind of shit for the rest of my deck

Well we'll see how this goes

 

[Crocodile]

The "in the new Tarkir, Sarkhan never becomes a PW" is interesting but then when you think about it, it gets really confusing. For example, if Sarkhan is never a PW, the events of Rise of the Eldrazi NEVER happen! That's a pretty big change to say the least.

A few more thoughts after looking at the cube some more:

1) White weenie strategies are often mono-white; don't shy away from good WW cards, just don't overdo it. A card that could be considered that I don't see here is Spectral Rider, although that's really just kind of a pet card for me.

2) I like Ronom Unicorn type cards over Kor Sanctifiers, to be honest.

3) Porcelain Legionnaire is neither a three-drop nor a white card. I have it as a colorless 2-drop in my cube, considering how often the card is drafted and played in non-white aggro decks. At the very least, tell Cube Tutor to classify it as a 2-drop for the purposes of looking at your curves.

4) I don't like Wall of Reverence, personally. I don't like Mikaeus the Lunarch either. I don't have any other options to suggest just yet.

5) I think you're really going to regret having the full Splinter Twin combo in a 360 card deck. I think it'll be the best possible thing you could do and will just warp the cube experience in a negative way since every card gets opened every time in an 8-man. I would suggest taking them out.

6) I have an irrational hatred of Aetherling, and you have four of the other five titans. Just play Frost Titan; the card is actually pretty good.

7) Damnation is $$$, but feels like it's missing. Anger of the Gods feels like it's missing too.

8) Golgari is notoriously difficult to set up for cube, but even still I don't think Deathrite Shaman is really cubeable. Abrupt Decay would probably be better.

Whatever you end up doing, update your Cube Tutor list and I'll do some more mock drafts of it. The draft bots have to be taught how to draft it on order to get reasonable results, but once they are, you can get a reasonable feel for how the cube drafts.

1) CC cards should be kept at an absolute minimum IMO. Better to encourage multicolor aggro with flexible mana-costs than go all in on mono-color (which will likely happen anyway). Seeker of the Way is a strong, easy on the mana two drop I don't see included that I think would fit in well. If he must go for a WW card, Kor Aeronaut is probably better - Flying is probably better than Intimidate and the kicker can be randomly useful.

2) Yeah I recently cut Sanctifiers from my good stuff Cube.

3) You don't need White mana to play Legionnaire but the card is better in White decks so that's were I put it in my classification. This is a preference thing though.

4) Yeah non-aggro decks usually don't need the help Wall provides and we have had better anthems printed since Mikaeus.

5) Yeah two card combos make me a bit nervous in Cube for the sake of fun (see Time Vault in Holiday Cube) but it totally depends on what red_13th and his playgroup like to play with. MY suggestion to him: listen to your playgroup. If they find it an unfun combo, nix it with prejudice!

6) Aetherling is fine but it is a more dedicated finisher so it depends what red_13th feels he needs. I feel Frost Titan is underrated in the Cube community in general though. It's definitely the better card in midrange/ramp decks.

7) Yeah Damnation is a pretty big omission but I have no idea how much it costs nowadays. Hopefully MM2 helps in this regard. If red_13th is willing to include supplementary sets, Toxic Deluge would be excellent. Barter in Blood is a cheap ($) "sweeper" to consider as well.

8) Deathrite is fine but it doesn't excel like it does in Constructed. I'm actually a fan of Putrefy. With this few slots, I think Putrefy will hit more total targets. How many enchantments/PWs with CMC 3 or less does red_13th have to worry about as opposed to creatures and artifacts with CMC 4+?

One of the problems with having a lot of hybrid cards is that it makes it difficult to give the color combo it's own identity, especially since he's only running three gold card per guild. I think it's important for the colors to have payoff cards that you can expect to wheel if nobody else is playing those colors. If your Selesnya section has three cards, and two of them are Finks (staple) and Militant (not really a staple), there's only one other Selesnya card in the entire draft that's a "payoff" for being in that combination. I think that's a very real downside of going heavy hybrid. In general, I avoid hybrid except in cases where the card is a staple (Finks, Redcap, and to a lesser extent, Cackler) and/or the quality is so high that I can't cut it. I have five cards per guild (405 cards in the cube), so I feel like I'm isolated from this effect and it doesn't bother me so much.

I suppose if you went all-hybrid, that would make for an interesting take on it though.

I would agree about the supplemental printings. That would give you access to Baleful Strix, Brago, Shardless Agent, Song of the Dryads, etc. I'm sure there are more I'm not thinking of right now.

Using multicolor as guiding rails works in retail sets because the multicolor cards tend to be WAY more powerful than the mono-color options. In "good stuff" Cubes, that's harder to do - cards like Hero of Bladehold or Elspeth (v1 or v3) are better than 80+% of all multicolor cards ever made. If you swing your Cube more towards distinct archetypes (which usually means a lower power level overall) I think that is more doable but its clear that's not what the Cube red_13th is trying to build is going to be about nor may it the type of Cube his playgroup may want to play.

Dragon's Maze- half of the Mythics (Council of the Absolute, Dreadbridge Chant, Master of Cruelties, Progenitor Mimic and Reap Intellect) are Constructed unplayables, There is a Legendary Land and a Planeswalker (Obvious Mythics), A nice Timmy card (Savageborn Hydra), and a multicolored vampire with a lot of big numbers in it's textbox. Legion's Initiative ended up bulk as well, but people thought it might be good.

It's only Voice of Resurgance that stands out, and they admitted that they made a last minute change with that card and the G/W Mazerunner. Meanwhile at normal rare, there are lots of generically powerful cards that stand out as Standard staples-Advent of the Wurm, Aetherling, Blood Scriniver, ,Notion Theif, Render Silent, Renounce the Guilds, Skylasher, Sire of Insanity (even though some did not see any play).

Zendikar- there are only a few constructed playable mythics here- Iona (in eternal formats), Eldrazi Monument, Mindbreak Trap (eternal formats), and Warren Instigator (which amounted to nothing). The only real issue card is Lotus Cobra- which, if you remove the name from it, feels like an uncommon instead of a Mythic.

It just feels a lot worse this time around because it's more than just one outlier this time around.

Cobra is unprintable at uncommon due to power level. The card probably could have been printed at rare I'd agree but I think this is one of those cards that you could make an argument for either side and not sound stupid.

I will agree with your general premise that the cards targeted for Constructed in this set seem to be overwhelmingly mythic and that sucks

 

[kirblar]

Unless you actually swap Narset into everything Sarkhan did. (Wouldn't put it past them.)

 

[The Technomancer]

Turns out its kind of hard to lose with Sorin, Duneblast, and Hooded Hydra, even if you have a shit deck around them. I went 2-1. Sorin won me two of the three games I managed to drop in on turn 4 in, and one opponent had me on the ropes at 4 life to 12, but conceded like one turn later after I duneblasted and followed it up with the Hydra for 5

 

[SigmasonicX]

The "in the new Tarkir, Sarkhan never becomes a PW" is interesting but then when you think about it, it gets really confusing. For example, if Sarkhan is never a PW, the events of Rise of the Eldrazi NEVER happen! That's a pretty big change to say the least.

Bolas could have had another one of his underlings help release the Eldrazi. There was that guy Ramaz that he was already using to lure Chandra to Zendikar.

 

[SigmasonicX]

New post to make it clear there's new info:

The former is interesting in that, regardless of everything else, you can repeatedly get 2/2 creatures that are not tokens. The middle is neat in that you can return a non-creature manifested card to your hand. And the last counters Siege Rhino.

 

[ElyrionX]

So I am tweaking my UR EDH deck and want to jam in more burn combos. I already have:

Mana Severance + Goblin Charbelcher
Infinite mana + Reiterate + Bolt
Infinite storm (via a variety of ways) + Grapeshot
Infinite mana/Mana Geyser + Comet Storm
Card draw + Inner Fire + Comet Storm
Card draw + Niv Mizzet Firemind


Are there any other strong ones I should consider? I am looking to move away from the infinite storm or mana stuff though. Something like Mana Severance and Goblin Charbelcher seem more interesting.

 

[Haly]

Kitteh!

What I like about it is that it can "salvage" your manifested sorceries and instants.

Honestly this is a very nice set for mechanics.

 

[Toxi]

Kitteh!

What I like about it is that it can "salvage" your manifested sorceries and instants.

Honestly this is a very nice set for mechanics.

Oh wow, that's brilliant. It can also save Lava Axe Dragon from being shuffled into your deck and can save creatures from removal in general.

 

[CeruleanSilver]

The clash pack hits all the right cards with the alt-art this time around: http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/arcana/fate-reforged-clash-pack-2015-01-06

Absolutely. Some of this new alt art is just fantastic. I particularly love the new Hero's Downfall and Reaper:

The new whip art doesn't get me excited, but it's solid. Definitely way better than that muddy mediocrity that is the first whip art. For such a killer flagship artifact, I'd expect top-notch art.

 

[CeruleanSilver]

...
The middle is neat in that you can return a non-creature manifested card to your hand.

Neat! Very clever.

I'm looking forward to this pre-release, even though all the multi-color mana stuff always confuses me during deck building and I make all kinds of stupid choices

 

[The Technomancer]

I had a dream last night where it was revealed that DTK was an all Dragon set

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Cut-Stone Retainers (3)
Artifact Creature - Golem (Uncommon)
Cast ~ only if you've cast another spell this turn.
4/4

Ugin's Construct (4)
Artifact Creature - Construct (Uncommon)
When ~ enters the battlefield, sacrifice a permanent that's one or more colors.
4/5

 

[Yeef]

Ugin's Construct (4)
Artifact Creature - Construct (Uncommon)
When ~ enters the battlefield, sacrifice a permanent that's one or more colors.
4/5

Seems like this could be pretty solid in limited. Turn 3 you play a morph guy, turn 4 this, turn 5 flip your morph.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Neat! Very clever.

I'm looking forward to this pre-release, even though all the multi-color mana stuff always confuses me during deck building and I make all kinds of stupid choices

Fate Reforged is much lighter on multi-color and the prerelease will actually have 4 Fate boosters to 1 Khans booster, so I don't think you'll have to worry about that as much.

EDIT: Art for Ugin's Construct

Damn, no wonder Sorin thinks he's Rude-in.

 

[OnPoint]

Cut-Stone Retainers (3)
Artifact Creature - Golem (Uncommon)
Cast ~ only if you've cast another spell this turn.
4/4

This seems like it could be pretty good in Affinity...? Maybe not. I don't know. It's a thought. Turn 1 4/4 in Magical Xmas land at least.

 

[ultron87]

I don't think Affinity really needs another big non evasive threat. Master of Etherium does that pretty well already and also pumps the little dudes.

Of course I was already totally wrong about Ensoul Artifact so who knows.

 

[y2dvd]

Rabblemasters pump doesn't trigger unless it's declared as an attacker. Bringing it back via Alesha, it'll always be attacking as a 2/2.

If a creature comes into play attacking, believe it or not, it never "attacked." So Rabblemaster's attack trigger won't happen.

I sit corrected!

 

[Toxi]

Cut-Stone Retainers (3)
Artifact Creature - Golem (Uncommon)
Cast ~ only if you've cast another spell this turn.
4/4

This is probably dumb coming from someone who doesn't play vintage at all, but could this be decent in vintage? 3 mana is exactly enough to come off of Mishra's Factory and it survives Bolt.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

There is a significant "bounce your own stuff" theme in this set. I never thought about how good that was with Manifest until I started seeing it, and it's really clever:

 

[ultron87]

I also really like the idea of creatures with detrimental ETB effects or weird casting restrictions that you can get around by Manifesting them and flipping them up for cheap like those two artifacts.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

I also really like the idea of creatures with detrimental ETB effects or weird casting restrictions that you can get around by Manifesting them and flipping them up for cheap like those two artifacts.

Another excellent point. The complexity of this set is off the chain.

I guess the pre-release is the only time you're going to be playing Limited with a significant % of FRF in your pool. That ought to be really interesting.

 

[red13th]

$30 for Monastery Mentor? Glad I only need 1.

 

[ThLunarian]

$30 for Monastery Mentor? Glad I only need 1.

I'll bet it's going to plunge before too long. I'm going to estimate that it will settle at around 15 at most. It seems about on Rabblemaster's level, except slower to get off the ground, and it's in a set that will be opened far more than M15.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Other spoiler, but it's not that great anyway:

I was pretty disappointed by today's Planeswalker's Guide, since it doesn't go into much detail. I still don't really see what's so different about the clans in the past, besides that they fought dragons. They still seem to have the same cultures, and they still seem to be opposed to each other, though not as much as in Khans.

 

[Firemind]

Are we going to see Narset, Plansewalker in this set or what?

 

[The Technomancer]

Are we going to see Narset, Plansewalker in this set or what?

Ugin is the only one, if there's Narset she'll be in Dragons

 

[Firemind]

I thought Bolas was going to make an appearance in Dragons.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Abzan Beastmaster 2G
Creature - Hound Shaman
Uncommon
At the beginning of your upkeep, draw a card if you control the creature with the greatest toughness or tied for the greatest toughness.
2/1

EDIT:

I thought Bolas was going to make an appearance in Dragons.

There are two planeswalker cards in Dragons. He might be in it, but I wouldn't expect the story to have Ugin and Bolas fight again at this point. I say the non-Narset card is either going to be whoever Bolas had replace Sarkhan in this new reality (maybe Ramaz), or an Eldrazi-corrupted Nahiri the Lithomancer.

 

[Haly]

That green guy... looks pretty good? I'm unfamiliar with the standard landscape but green shouldn't have much trouble topping toughness.

Green bob??????

 

[OnPoint]

I thought Bolas was going to make an appearance in Dragons.

He might, there's room for 2 PW in Dragons

 

[kirblar]

Bolas would be awkward/distracting, considering that he's involved in FRF.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Re: Beastmaster. We've had Triumph of Ferocity before, which saw very little play, and this guy's body is irrelevant for his casting cost. He can block, which is nice, but is easier to remove.

My gut says he's not quite good enough to see much play, but I could be wrong about that. He's certainly not Bob, that's for sure.

 

[Big One]

Seems like a power creepy set to be honest. Of course I'm used to this cause I play YGO quite a lot which is basically Power Creep TCG.

Most of the preview cards have been pretty solid for the most part with no outright duds.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Seems like a power creepy set to be honest.

Theros was a serious step down in power level. The design philosophies of the block funneled you into very narrow strategies in order to get the most out of the powerful cards that it gave you. What you're seeing here something a bit more normal with this block.

 

[The Technomancer]

Seems like a power creepy set to be honest. Of course I'm used to this cause I play YGO quite a lot which is basically Power Creep TCG.

Most of the preview cards have been pretty solid for the most part with no outright duds.

They've gone a bit too far towards power being concentrated in a few bomby cards the last few years, so I'm glad to see it being spread around a bit more. I haven't seen anything that screams at me like having Batterskull and Stoneforge in the same enviornment so far