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[Angry Grimace]

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/uncharted-realms/no-end-and-no-beginning-2015-02-11

New flavor piece is up.

Spoiler

Dagathar agrees that the Abzan will outlaw the use of black magic within the Abzan in exchange for a truce with Dromoka's brood. Hmmmmmmmm, I wonder where this is going.

Hello everyone. This is my first post here, but I plan on becoming an active member within this community.

I started playing Magic very lightly and casually about a year ago. I played a draft for the rotation with the "heroic" ability, and I played in the sealed midnight releases for M15 and Fate Reforged, and had great times.

I have been play testing with a friend who has a decent standard collection and have been proxying. I have looked at all the recent sets (M15, Khans of Tarkir, and Fate Reforged) and have a fairly good grasp of the cards.

I have decided to make the jump into standard, as there are a few "PPTQ"s in my immediate area in about 2 weeks which I'm excited for.

I have glazed over and discussed the meta with friends, and it seems that what's hot is Abzan and Red White with Monastery mentor.

I have grown attached to Blue Green Red (Temur), and have built a hypothetical list. Please, be as honest and brutal in critiquing my deck. I will be play testing and competing in my first official big tournament very soon.

4x Elvish Mystic
4x Rattleclaw Mystic
4x Savage Knuckleblade
2x Yasova Dragonclaw
4x Flamewake Phoenix
4x Heir of the Wilds
2x Surrak Dragonclaw
4x Ashcloud Phoenix
4x Shaman of the Great Hunt

4x Lightning Strike
3x Temur Charm

22-25 Lands ( 4x copy of the tri land for temur, 4x fetch, 4x gain lands, 4x scry lands, and rest I assume will be easy, seeing I dont have much blue and have mostly Green, then red. I still will take advice on what my lands will be and how many I should play.)

Sideboard (Need suggestions and help; disdainful stroke seems like a great board card as it shwubs Siege Rhino, wingmate roc, sorin, etc)

4x Disdainful Stroke
3x Stubborn Denial
3x Anger of the Gods
3x Destructive Revelry
2x Negate

Again, this is my first real attempt at a competitive deck. I would greatly appreciate any advice, and more importantly, reason as to why a card choice I made was lackluster, and why your suggestion is a better choice.

Thanks alot!

Stubborn Denial is a main board card. I don't think you want 4 of any of the four-drops either. They're all pretty decent, but I like Shaman a lot more than Firemind does simply because its putting pressure on your opponent a lot faster and absolutely demands they remove it immediately because the card draw is backbreaking if it gets off in a Temur deck.

You need to cut some of them for Crater's Claws. A Ferocious Temur deck should actually run 4.

The other issue is that you should not play Lightning Strike. I know it seems weird; but the toughness of creatures in FRF are all 2, 4 or 5. Unless you really need to get Fleecemane Lions down, Wild Slash is actually better.

 

[kirblar]

Yup, Allies. No shards.

 

[keeblerdrow]

Drop the Rattleclaw Mystics for Frost Walkers. You have nothing substantial that you need 8 full dudes dedicated to ramping and having a 4/1 on turn 2 is a substantially better play. You still want the Elvish Mystics for explosive starts, but there's no real reason to play a ramp deck base with what should essentially be an aggro deck.

Spoiler

I'm not actually convinced there is a Temur Midrange deck that is viable unless you could the Ascendency deck, which is actually Green Devotion.

Drop the Temur Charms, they're turds more often than not. I'd suggest your non creature suite be 2x Lightning Strike, 3x Crater's Claws, 2x Stubborn Denial.

Drop one of your playsets of a phoenix for Stormbreath Dragon. It's the best flyer in the game currently and BLANKS abzan creatures with few exceptions. Abzan aggro needs 5 specific cards in its 75 to even get rid of it and they've likely used 2-3 of them before you've landed the dragon.

I worked 2 copies of Frontier Siege into my 75 for this deck and it has paid off. Having it and a Shaman of the Great Hunt down has always been a beast. Keep Shaman of the Great Hunt. It's the best Temur card in standard. "It dies to removal." and makes your opponent have to spend a turn off of their current plan and on "oh shit, I need to get rid of that."

Get 3 copies of Whisperwood Elemental for your sideboard. Do it. Then bring it in against decks with sweepers and/or are removal heavy. It severely punishes even 1 for 1s.

 

[Firemind]

Do I want a Nekusar troll EDH deck? y/n

 

[ultron87]

Definitely play Crater's Claws. It does so much for that deck.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Do I want a Nekusar troll EDH deck? y/n

Linear. Boring. Every game is the same.

If you want a troll deck, play Norin and jam every hateful red enchantment and artifact in. Turn 2 Ankh of Mishra, t4 Mana Barbs, etc.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I think Ashcloud Phoenix is kind of overrated in Temur too. Most of the time its just okay.

I'd probably go with something like this, with the caveat that I don't think its great, even though it leads to a lot of fun games.

4 Elvish Mystic
4 Heir of the Wilds
3 Frost Walker
2 Yasova Dragonclaw
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Savage Knuckleblade
4 Shaman of the Great Hunt
3 Stormbreath Dragon

4 Crater's Claws
3 Stubborn Denial
2 Temur Charm

3 Shivan Reef
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Yavimaya Coast
2 Forest
2 Mountain
1 Temple of Epiphany
1 Temple of Abandon
2 Mana Confluence
4 Frontier Bivouac

SB:

2 Destructive Revelry
4 Wild Slash
1 Dig Through Time
3 Disdainful Stroke
1 Stubborn Denial
2 Arc Lightning
2 Anger of the Gods

 

[Firemind]

Linear. Boring. Every game is the same.

If you want a troll deck, play Norin and jam every hateful red enchantment and artifact in. Turn 2 Ankh of Mishra, t4 Mana Barbs, etc.

That doesn't seem as much fun as Nekusar. I mean, I can play Mana Flare, Helm's Awakening, Arcane Melee etc. and who doesn't like Howling Mine? I just need to figure out how to tell people Nekusar is just there for show. It's not there so I can play him! Honest!

 

[Socat]

Definitely enjoyed the piece about Daghatar. The ending didn't surprise me, but I can see where they are trying to go with it.

 

[Apeopleman]

Drop the Rattleclaw Mystics for Frost Walkers. You have nothing substantial that you need 8 full dudes dedicated to ramping and having a 4/1 on turn 2 is a substantially better play. You still want the Elvish Mystics for explosive starts, but there's no real reason to play a ramp deck base with what should essentially be an aggro deck.

Spoiler

I'm not actually convinced there is a Temur Midrange deck that is viable unless you could the Ascendency deck, which is actually Green Devotion.

Drop the Temur Charms, they're turds more often than not. I'd suggest your non creature suite be 2x Lightning Strike, 3x Crater's Claws, 2x Stubborn Denial.

Drop one of your playsets of a phoenix for Stormbreath Dragon. It's the best flyer in the game currently and BLANKS abzan creatures with few exceptions. Abzan aggro needs 5 specific cards in its 75 to even get rid of it and they've likely used 2-3 of them before you've landed the dragon.

I worked 2 copies of Frontier Siege into my 75 for this deck and it has paid off. Having it and a Shaman of the Great Hunt down has always been a beast. Keep Shaman of the Great Hunt. It's the best Temur card in standard. "It dies to removal." and makes your opponent have to spend a turn off of their current plan and on "oh shit, I need to get rid of that."

Get 3 copies of Whisperwood Elemental for your sideboard. Do it. Then bring it in against decks with sweepers and/or are removal heavy. It severely punishes even 1 for 1s.

Oh wow, I had no clue Frost Walker even existed. I must have skipped over it. Thanks alot!

Do you really think the Rattleclaws can be dropped completely? It fits so well into Temur, no?

Also, thanks alot to everyone who is giving advice. I am considering all of it.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Oh wow, I had no clue Frost Walker even existed. I must have skipped over it. Thanks alot!

Do you really think the Rattleclaws can be dropped completely? It fits so well into Temur, no?

Also, thanks alot to everyone who is giving advice. I am considering all of it.

You don't need or want a 2 drop mana dork in an aggressive shell. Mystic is all you need. He doesn't fix you, but you just have to run a painful land base for that.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Do you guys think a pair of Dig Through Times are worth playing in Legacy Reanimator? It costs a shit ton of mana, but the deck struggles sometimes to put together the last piece of the puzzle. It also adds another blue card for force of will. I can cast it as early as turn one, but that generally involves me already having a turn one griselbrand lol

I' don't have any idea what to cut though. I was already struggling to find a slot for the fourth Dark Ritual. Reanimate and Animate Dead aren't great, but I can't really cut them either. I've seen Show and Tell over Animate Dead, but that makes Dark Ritual so much worse. Maybe cut the two Ponders? It's a similar role, after all. Double blue is also kind of awkward since it'd be the only castable double-color spell in the deck.

 

[kirblar]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";151616894]Do you guys think a pair of Dig Through Times are worth playing in Legacy Reanimator? It costs a shit ton of mana, but the deck struggles sometimes to put together the last piece of the puzzle. It also adds another blue card for force of will. I can cast it as early as turn one, but that generally involves me already having a turn one griselbrand lol

I' don't have any idea what to cut though. I was already struggling to find a slot for the fourth Dark Ritual. Reanimate and Animate Dead aren't great, but I can't really cut them either. I've seen Show and Tell over Animate Dead, but that makes Dark Ritual so much worse. Maybe cut the two Ponders? It's a similar role, after all. Double blue is also kind of awkward since it'd be the only castable double-color spell in the deck.[/QUOTE]
Feels like if you're casting a DTT you've probably already lost? Also loses hard to G2/3 RIPS.

 

[Socat]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";151616894]Do you guys think a pair of Dig Through Times are worth playing in Legacy Reanimator? It costs a shit ton of mana, but the deck struggles sometimes to put together the last piece of the puzzle. It also adds another blue card for force of will. I can cast it as early as turn one, but that generally involves me already having a turn one griselbrand lol

I' don't have any idea what to cut though. I was already struggling to find a slot for the fourth Dark Ritual. Reanimate and Animate Dead aren't great, but I can't really cut them either. I've seen Show and Tell over Animate Dead, but that makes Dark Ritual so much worse. Maybe cut the two Ponders? It's a similar role, after all. Double blue is also kind of awkward since it'd be the only castable double-color spell in the deck.[/QUOTE]

Would you mind posting the decklist? Or linking to the post you have it if you can? Would give me a better picture of any possible cuts to make room. I don't know enough about the deck right now, but my gut reaction is that itd be too clunky or slow to make it worth cutting something else.

 

[SigmasonicX]

The new Uncharted Realms was pretty interesting. However, there is the problem that the shared enemy color of each other clan doesn't feel as much of a distinct part of them as with the Abzan. What will the Temur be forced to abandon? Just elementals and ice magic?

 

[divisionbyzorro]

The new Uncharted Realms was pretty interesting. However, there is the problem that the shared enemy color of each other clan doesn't feel as much of a distinct part of them as with the Abzan. What will the Temur be forced to abandon? Just elementals and ice magic?

I think it makes sense for Jeskai pretty clearly. They lose the red/emotional part of themselves and become much more "monk-like." This ties in really well with getting a new mechanic - no more adrenaline-filled stat boosts as it were.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Would you mind posting the decklist? Or linking to the post you have it if you can? Would give me a better picture of any possible cuts to make room. I don't know enough about the deck right now, but my gut reaction is that itd be too clunky or slow to make it worth cutting something else.

Creatures(7):

• 4 Griselbro
• 1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
• 1 Tidespout Tyrant
• 1 Sire of Insanity

Spells(33):

• 4 Daze
• 4 Force of Will
• 4 Brainstorm
• 4 Careful Study
• 2 Ponder
• 4 Entomb
• 4 Exhume
• 4 Reanimate
• 3 Dark Ritual

Artifacts/Enchantments(6):

• 4 Lotus Petal
• 2 Animate Dead

Land(14):

• 4 Polluted Delta
• 3 Bloodstained Mire
• 4 Underground Sea
• 2 Swamp
• 1 Island

Sideboard(15):

• 1 Misdirection
• 1 Pithing Needle
• 2 Flusterstorm
• 2 Show and Tell
• 1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
• 1 Ashen Rider
• 4 Thoughtseize
• 2 Wipe Away
• 2 Swan Song

 

[Socat]

@GB I honestly would only consider swapping ponder for DTT, but I think that that is strictly a downgrade, and would probably keep it as is, but it may be something to test to see how it shakes out.

 

[Llyrwenne]

So Abzan drops Black because Dagathar bans Black magic outright to facilitate a truce with Dromoka.

Random fun lore predictions;

Jeskai drops Red as they become more monk-like and find a way to more or less peacefully co-exist with the Ojutai brood.
Temur drops Blue as they grow more fierce and barbaric in their struggle against Atarka.
Mardu drops White and grows more aggressive and destructive as they ally with / serve under Kolaghan.

Don't have a clue how they're going to 'explain' Sultai dropping Green lore-wise. Probably some cliche 'They've grown out of touch with nature'-stuff.

 

["God's Beard!"]

@GB I honestly would only consider swapping ponder for DTT, but I think that that is strictly a downgrade, and would probably keep it as is, but it may be something to test to see how it shakes out.

Honestly, I'm more interested in trying to find a slot for the last Dark Ritual. The card has always been great, and turn one entomb -> exhume is the goal of the deck.

 

[Socat]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";151641416]Honestly, I'm more interested in trying to find a slot for the last Dark Ritual. The card has always been great, and turn one entomb -> exhume is the goal of the deck.[/QUOTE]

I'd go to 1 Ponder for another Ritual if it were me

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Man; Dave Williams had some ridiculously bad luck in the VSL this week.

That's the problem with Dredge. When it's winning, it's impossible to understand what's happening on the stream. When it's losing, it's less interesting than watching paint dry.

EDIT: Thank you based LSV. Doomsday saves us all.

 

[The Technomancer]

Oh yeah, so here are some better shots of my local store:

 

[charlequin]

The new Uncharted Realms was pretty interesting. However, there is the problem that the shared enemy color of each other clan doesn't feel as much of a distinct part of them as with the Abzan. What will the Temur be forced to abandon? Just elementals and ice magic?

The blue in the Temur is their ice magic as well as their chill shamanic wisdom. For the Mardu white is the military organization; for Sultai green is the natural half of their necromantic growth angle; for Jeskai red's the unpredictable and emotional element.

That's the problem with Dredge. When it's winning, it's impossible to understand what's happening on the stream. When it's losing, it's less interesting than watching paint dry.

The first part is all coverage. If you've got someone watching the match to point out the important pieces going into the grave it's not too hard to follow. It is exquisitely boring when it loses, though, yes.

 

[The Technomancer]

As someone who really likes Temur I'm going to be sad to see them regress to probably just being more R/G beaters. No other color combination (well okay other than maybe U/B but for entirely different reasons) feels like Wizards has less of a handle on how to make it interesting than R/G

 

["God's Beard!"]

As someone who really likes Temur I'm going to be sad to see them regress to probably just being more R/G beaters. No other color combination (well okay other than maybe U/B but for entirely different reasons) feels like Wizards has less of a handle on how to make it interesting than R/G

BLOODRUSH GRAWR

GREHRHGREHR +4/+4 TRAMPLE NOOB

d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-DOUBLE STRIKE

 

[SigmasonicX]

Yeah, I really hope that they remember that green is the source of Temur's shamanistic qualities.

 

[y2dvd]

Oh yeah, so here are some better shots of my local store:

Which one is you doe?!

 

[charlequin]

As someone who really likes Temur I'm going to be sad to see them regress to probably just being more R/G beaters. No other color combination (well okay other than maybe U/B but for entirely different reasons) feels like Wizards has less of a handle on how to make it interesting than R/G

I mean, what are you gonna do? Red and Green's overlap is, like... fighting, attacking really well, kind-of-sort-of dealing damage, making mana, and destroying non-creature permanents. Is there some vein of red/green design they're failing to mine here?

 

[acheron_xl]

I mean, what are you gonna do? Red and Green's overlap is, like... fighting, attacking really well, kind-of-sort-of dealing damage, making mana, and destroying non-creature permanents. Is there some vein of red/green design they're failing to mine here?

R/G midrange control?

 

[Angry Grimace]

I mean, what are you gonna do? Red and Green's overlap is, like... fighting, attacking really well, kind-of-sort-of dealing damage, making mana, and destroying non-creature permanents. Is there some vein of red/green design they're failing to mine here?

I think RG is the most Classic MTG combination of all time.

Whether it's been done isn't the issue. It's worked great for 2 decades.

 

[Firemind]

Land destruction kekeke.

Still waiting for a 1RG Stone Rain with slight upside. In the original Ravnica block they were too hesitant to print one because of karoos existing probably.

 

[charlequin]

I think RG is the most Classic MTG combination of all time.

Whether it's been done isn't the issue. It's worked great for 2 decades.

Oh, yeah, sorry if I wasn't clear, I love RG, Gruul smash. I don't think there's any big category of potential design they're skipping over.

If I had to pick the color combo with the worst use of its design space... Izzet, maybe, or Dimir?

 

[Haly]

Well, they know what they can do with Dimir and Izzet only... their vision for modern Magic is hostile to both what UR and UB are in the classical sense.

 

[The Technomancer]

Well, they know what they can do with Dimir and Izzet only... their vision for modern Magic is hostile to both what UR and UB are in the classical sense.

Right, that's what I was kind of getting at there when I mentioned U/B. Maybe what I'm asking for doesn't exist in design space. I need to think about it more

*shrug*

 

["God's Beard!"]

Fuck, man. Dirmir is my favorite combo but it always gets shit on.

Nightveil Specter was a great dimir card, though. So is Ashiok. I feel like, taking things from your opponent is a great mechanic to fit the dimir flavor. Not mill.

 

[Haly]

They could do more land things. Both R and G were colors of LD, and G often brings lands into play while R mines them into oblivion. Boborygmos would throw bits of land at you. etc.

Something like Landfall?

 

["God's Beard!"]

I don't know why I'm fine with Land Destruction but hate Blood Moon. Something about shutting off my lands infuriates me.

 

[Firemind]

Don't remind me. I'm still salty they printed Suffocating Blast as part of a cycle. Double Negative and Counterflux were okay but wholly unexciting.

Dimir actually got great cards in recent years. Nightveil Specter is well-designed, Ashiok is pretty sweet and at least it's constructed playable unlike Dack Fayden.

 

[Crocodile]

Don't remind me. I'm still salty they printed Suffocating Blast as part of a cycle. Double Negative and Counterflux were okay but wholly unexciting.

Dimir actually got great cards in recent years. Nightveil Specter is well-designed, Ashiok is pretty sweet and at least it's constructed playable unlike Dack Fayden.

So I guess you don't follow the Vintage format do you..........

 

[Firemind]

Forgot to add standard lol

 

[Yeef]

I haven't really been following standard since Fate dropped. So, what's the deck to beat in Standard right now? Is it still Abzan or is Boros the way to go? Typically I try to avoid netdecking, but I actually want the Game Day mat this time around.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Forgot to add standard lol

Yeah, wonder why nobody played dack fayden in standard...

 

[Firemind]

I wonder why...

Edit: huh seems like shaman of the great hunt has been in a lot of temur aggro lists. disregard my previous post in that case.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Wow, this 8-4 is going super quick. 20 minutes into the round and all the matches finished. Wtf there's even a 2-1

 

[LaserBuddha]

How's this for UB Control?

1 Pearl Lake Ancient
1 Silumgar
1 Ugin
2 Ashiok
2 Perilous Vault
2 Thoughtseize
3 Jace's Ingenuity
3 Dig Through Time
4 Bile Blight
4 Hero's Downfall
1 Murderous Cut
2 Crux of Fate
3 Disdainful Stroke
4 Dissolve
27 mana sources

I'm also considering swapping PLA for another Silumgar + swapping in a couple Fearsome Awakenings somewhere.

 

["God's Beard!"]

You might want to cut the third disdainful stroke for a third crux of fate. It's relevant in more matchups and they're gonna come down on about the same turn anyway. Fearsome Awakening doesnt really have a place in a control deck.


On another note, i love when all the matches in a modo draft except for one are done early and the last one is still 0-0. I just imagine some crazy war happening in there.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I'm starting to get really annoyed. I know everybody hates when you complain about mana, but damn am I having a bad streak. I had to mulligan 4/5 games this draft due to not having land. I won a mull to 5 because I'm aggro but still.

I kept a 2 plains double lightform 6-card hand with all the other cards costing three in the second round. Never drew a third land and died on turn 7. Then somehow lost when I kept a 6 with all my colors because I never drew a spell after my opening hand. Just all feelbads lately, even though I got my money back from some nice people passing me expensive cards.

My theros-style triple KTK deck was super sweet, too:

Getting mana screwed when more than 40% of your deck costs less than three mana is just miserable.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Don't remind me. I'm still salty they printed Suffocating Blast as part of a cycle. Double Negative and Counterflux were okay but wholly unexciting.

Dimir actually got great cards in recent years. Nightveil Specter is well-designed, Ashiok is pretty sweet and at least it's constructed playable unlike Dack Fayden.

Dack is one of the only two playable PW in Vintage mostly due to "steal your mox"

Oh, yeah, sorry if I wasn't clear, I love RG, Gruul smash. I don't think there's any big category of potential design they're skipping over.

If I had to pick the color combo with the worst use of its design space... Izzet, maybe, or Dimir?

RG's design space is drinkin' and fightin'

 

[WanderingWind]

Dimir mechanics always seem to revolve around mill, which is the worst mechanic. Izzet has counterburn, which is like, the holy grail of deck building. If there was a legitimate counterburn deck in modern, it would be the only deck I'd ever play. UWR Delver/Geist is basically the closet thing at the moment.