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Magic: The Gathering |OT3| Enchantment Under the Siege

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kirblar

Member
I think they just want to use those core walkers in the next few blocks as central characters.

I think they're trying to phase out Ajani as mono-white, too. I want them to reprint Vengeant in Standard, I love that card.
There just aren't really many designs for him left in mono-W.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
There just aren't really many designs for him left in mono-W.

I mean, we also already have an Ajani origin walker since Vengeant apparently predates Ajani Goldmane. Not to mention his home plane is one we already know about.

(and which happens to be totally wrong for a core set)
 
Any merit to the thought that Origins is testing storylines for the Magic movie?

If the Magic movie is real then the storylines are already well past locked in at this point. (And WotC aren't going to be the driving impetus behind how the movie's story is focused anyway.) I think this is really just what it looks like -- they had a slot open in the schedule that would let them do a weird thing they normally wouldn't have an opportunity to do, and it would make the Creative guys happy, so they just ran with it.

I think they're trying to phase out Ajani as mono-white, too.

I mean, they established Ajani really early on as GWR and weren't shy at all about printing him in multicolor. I don't think they're interested in permanently avoiding printing mono-W Ajanis, he's just the least mono of the three white PWs and the most mono one just died, so that leaves Gideon.
 
One of my buddies posted this draft deck on facebook, I'm gonna go vomit now:

10959657_104649825537xvoqo.jpg
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";151379393]One of my buddies posted this draft deck on facebook, I'm gonna go vomit now:

10959657_104649825537xvoqo.jpg
[/QUOTE]

Your friend is pretty good at photoshop
 
Magic|GAF,

I'm looking to open a storefront in town and was wondering if any of you guys had any tips for me. The money is already there, but what product should I buy for a good turnaround. How are box prices at your stores? What is your average attendance for FNM and so forth?

Any help would be appreciated. I used to play when the game first came out and got out after the Urza block. I rejoined for a short stint during the Lorwyn block, and played some some pre-releases during the Innistrad block.
 

ElyrionX

Member
Magic|GAF,

I'm looking to open a storefront in town and was wondering if any of you guys had any tips for me. The money is already there, but what product should I buy for a good turnaround. How are box prices at your stores? What is your average attendance for FNM and so forth?

Any help would be appreciated. I used to play when the game first came out and got out after the Urza block. I rejoined for a short stint during the Lorwyn block, and played some some pre-releases during the Innistrad block.

Opening a store sellling primarily MTG products is a dicey proposition for even the most seasoned players with good knowledge of the finance scene. It's downright terrible for someone who does not even play the game today since most of your profits will come from singles and not sealed products.

Find another business is my suggestion.
 
And this explains the quality disparity between GP and PT coverage. This is kinda insane.

https://joeypasco.exposure.co/backstage-at-the-pro-tour

I've seen SCG's mobile kit for their Opens. Not every GP has to be pro tour levels of prep and production, but it wouldn't be a lot more to get near SCG's level of production on a weekly basis.

Oh, and better commentary. This was an exchange I had with a friend of mine this morning after we had had a long discussion on Friday about our qualms with WOTC commentary crews:

"but watching the pt was entertaining

[the girlfriend] and i almost did a drinking game. drink when: randy or marshall say "wow", someone is wrong and corrected on commentary, rashad talks about himself while a match is going on

we decided not to follow through because a) we don't have enough alcohol to cover all that, and b) we'd be dead by round 6"


(the poke at Rashad isn't actually true, but we were kinda picking on him before the PT)
 
Opening a store sellling primarily MTG products is a dicey proposition for even the most seasoned players with good knowledge of the finance scene. It's downright terrible for someone who does not even play the game today since most of your profits will come from singles and not sealed products.

Find another business is my suggestion.

We're not going to be strictly selling Magic, but we're going to be a game store. I realize that singles will be the bulk of our M:tG sales, and I'm prepared to research that, but having sealed product on our shelves is something that I need to have.

The market I'm entering is almost completely uncontested and has both a high school and college in walking proximity. It's also downtown, which means that we'll have pretty good foot traffic.
 
Tim/Ian blew everyone else away and should really be strongly considered for the A-team position IMO.

Truth. Put some people on the commentary that are playing week to week in the formats they're focusing on. Or have Modern commentators, Standard commentators, and Limited commentators. They should have enough specialists that they could come up with 2 non-idiots to rub together. Get a flavor commentator in every week for viewer stability, if needed. The John Madden of Magic.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Maro would analyze the players' personalities according to the color pie.
 

kirblar

Member
Truth. Put some people on the commentary that are playing week to week in the formats they're focusing on. Or have Modern commentators, Standard commentators, and Limited commentators. They should have enough specialists that they could come up with 2 non-idiots to rub together. Get a flavor commentator in every week for viewer stability, if needed. The John Madden of Magic.
The issue with Modern is simple: it exposes people who don't actually follow the competitive scene and format. People have had 3+ years to learn these deck archetypes. If they haven't, they shouldn't be on the mics.
 
We're not going to be strictly selling Magic, but we're going to be a game store. I realize that singles will be the bulk of our M:tG sales, and I'm prepared to research that, but having sealed product on our shelves is something that I need to have.

The market I'm entering is almost completely uncontested and has both a high school and college in walking proximity. It's also downtown, which means that we'll have pretty good foot traffic.

If I were to open a store front, I would, like you, not focus solely on MtG. Get a few cases of singles going, pick tcg or star city and just lockstep your prices to theirs. It'll help you not have to obsess about prices constantly.

For sealed product, focus on Standard for now and then slowly branch into sealed product for Modern. It's what a store that has bloomed in the last 4 years around here did. They are slowly reaching back in their offerings, but started mostly on Standard faire. Get your distribution channels going fast. And ask around, if there's more than 1 distributor, find out what one is the most reliable for release dates.

Expect low turnout for your FNMs unless you know some people from local existing playgroups that you can recruit into your store to bring THEIR friends in. I know one store locally actually hired one of the guys in a huge playgroup to work in their store and to basically make events that his friends would be interested in. Use established people and playgroups to recruit your store regulars, but don't try getting them by undercutting other local stores. You'll need them at some point in the future and bad blood between stores always just hurts the local play scene as a whole.

FNM of 4-12 people until people trust you, unless those HS and college students have been dying for a place to play. You can also offer bonus product above what WOTC reimburse you for a while until you're established. But be clear with your players that this isn't a permanent thing unless you think you can sustain it.

Offer food. Cheap, but if you can offer more than Dew and Doritos, you'll attract the 25+ crowd, who can help you stay in business. (I would KILL for a MtG store in this area to get a liquor license and have Saturday Night Adults Magic.)

Organize events and advertise on social media. If people know they can show up at a certain time and people will be there, they will be there also.
 

ElyrionX

Member
We're not going to be strictly selling Magic, but we're going to be a game store. I realize that singles will be the bulk of our M:tG sales, and I'm prepared to research that, but having sealed product on our shelves is something that I need to have.

The market I'm entering is almost completely uncontested and has both a high school and college in walking proximity. It's also downtown, which means that we'll have pretty good foot traffic.

High school and college kids have little to no spending power. You want working adults who have disposable income to blow on singles and products. This is something that many LGS owners don't understand.

Communities of students also mean more trading of singles among those people (whether you choose to allow it to happen at your store or not) which also means less sales of singles for you.
 
Can you compete with deals like these?

10959693_391851714319bau4m.jpg


Magic stores can start getting pretty cutthroat. Another store has win-a-box minumum prize support for modern fnms even if less than 8 people show up with $12 entry.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
What kind of turnout are you guys getting for FNM anyways?

My LGS does Standard, Commander, [Special format, which is rotating Modern and whatever the fuck Tribal Wars is] plus draft. It seems like the store started getting super fucking crowded on FNM when Commander showed up in January.
 
What kind of turnout are you guys getting for FNM anyways?

My LGS does Standard, Commander, [Special format, which is Modern and whatever the fuck Tribal Wars is] plus draft. It seems like the store started getting super fucken crowded when Commander showed up in January.

~20 people? Sometimes twice that, sometimes half.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";151387331]~20 people? Sometimes twice that, sometimes half.[/QUOTE]I don't really count, but I do know I can end up at Table 18 if I play really shitty and lose all my matches.

I think we have 15 tables going for Standard events and usually 2 draft pods. I've never really gone to another store for FNM simply because I don't have time to drive from my office to the other store down the street because all the traffic goes in that direction. The other store in question actually is a dedicated MTG shop and doesn't seem to do anything else; the schedule on their site barely lists anything but MTG events....

 
We have several stores in the area. I attend Big Kidz Games because my girlfriend is comfortable with the store and likes the people there. They have FNM standard at 6:30 and get anywhere from 12-30 people, depending on the time of year, usually sitting around 16. We draft at 10:30 the same night and that gets regularly a dozen or more people for it. They also have draft on Sunday at 3 and we just started a "test and trade" night on Tuesdays, which has so far been me and two other people each week. Frustrating. They have commander on Thursdays also.

The other big place in town is where all the spikes go and it's super competitive. Until last month, they were always limited by space and couldn't fit more than 25 people for FNM Standard. Now, they'll likely have 40-50 people each week. They draft on Sundays, Legacy (mostly proxies, we don't have a mature scene) on Wednesdays, and Modern on Thursdays.

There are other stores, too, including one that is about a block away from the local community college. They could be a good resource on what to expect for your new business, Secret Character. Grand Lan is their name (in Grand Rapids, MI). They've been around for years and might offer some advice.

The healthiest thing in MTG between the main two stores is their pre-releases. They compete for players and get anywhere from 15-45 players per event. The store I go to has a 12:01 Saturday, noon 2 headed giant, 6pm Saturday, 12:01 Sunday, noon 2HG, and 6pm Sunday event, all with good attendance.

I just want Standard Magic in the area on some other night than Fridays, now.
 
High school and college kids have little to no spending power. You want working adults who have disposable income to blow on singles and products. This is something that many LGS owners don't understand.

Communities of students also mean more trading of singles among those people (whether you choose to allow it to happen at your store or not) which also means less sales of singles for you.

Trust me, this paticular college crowd has the money. Also, as I said before, Magic is only one of the products we're offering.

I do like the suggesstion that I should hire a Magic guy. I've got a friend who isn't tied to a venue that is pretty well learned in the game and keeps up on Modern like crazy.
 

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
1) Make sure you have ample seating. This means, for as much as your space allows, have seats far enough spaced where people can sit. Not to put too fine a point on it, but consider the average Magic player does not look like Travis Woo. Nobody will enjoy coming to your store if they have to cram hock-to-hock. If you're not the only store in the area, people will migrate elsewhere.

2) Hire non-dicks. As a store owner you can't afford to be everybody's friend, but you can't be an asshole. Things I've seen:
a) Acting rude to younger kids because they don't have money. Yes, eventually kids trying to get a pack with 37 cents in change is going to wear on you. Don't take it out on your potential customers - and even if you know they will never spend any more money than the quarter for a bag of Fritos (fucking sell snacks, btw, this one should be obvious) but acting like an asshole will drive away normal, functioning adults.
b) The internet is a thing. Don't try to rip off you customers. Maybe you can sucker a new player into a bad deal, but they won't come back and again, seasoned people won't want to deal with you.
c) Hire at least one Magic player who is in the marketing field, if you can afford it. Not only can that person come up with great ideas for event management, but they are usually trained in having to deal with situations - and can probably help turn a profit in the meanwhile.

3) Have stock. This one is tricky, but super important. While you can't always dictate what product you're going to have on hand, remember that players shopping for cards at your store are doing so because it's more immediate than CFB, et al. If you're the store that constantly can't keep singles, people who want to spend money will stop coming. This ties into hiring the guy on top of Magic in specific. He'll know to have a stock of say, Siege Rhinos on hand as much as is really feasible. Make sure your Magic hire knows Commander trends as much as Standard and Modern, as commander players buy a ton of singles. Keep in stock popular archetypes for newer and casual players.

4) Do not be afraid to set ground rules. Your new store will draw wannabe Pro Tour types, card sharks, alpha nerd assholes and the like. Reign in the PT wannabes, don't be scared of banning people clearly taking advantage of young traders and get rid of angry alpha geeks or take them outside and let them know it's not appropriate to try to rage over Magic. This one can be hard if you're timid, but it's super important. Your largest spenders will be new players and people who want to continue building decks (IE regulars). Cutting a few bad apples will make people want to come to your store.

5) Ventilation. Figure it out for your store, but Magic players on a whole are not the cleanest bunch. Even if they were, sitting in a closed off space for hours playing cards with a group will lead to natural stank. Fight the stank. It is not your friend.

6) No, seriously, get a seasoned Magic player to deal with Magic related sales and trading. The market is volatile. If you don't follow it, you could find yourself being ripped off by savvy sharks too. You may THINK you know a price or a fair trade, but something could have happened overnight that could find you on the short end of a bad deal.

7) Offer an incentive program, but don't go full stupid with it. A punchcard for say, a free draft after every 8 is a good idea. I had a store that gave away product for like, 4th time drafters and gave away booster boxes as prizes for even mundane events. This goes back to an earlier point - everybody loved Kim, but Kim still went the fuck out of business with the quickness. You're a business owner, not a friend maker.

8) Conversely, new players are your lifeblood. Taking stock, paperwork and the like can wait. Engage your new players as they ask stupid questions. Build 5 basic colored decks and keep them behind the counter. Have your Magic guy sit down and teach the game to new players and you'll become Their LCS. Once you become that, you'll have to fuck up to drive away business.


So, uh. I may have been giving this a lot of thought over the years. Hope you read this and hope it helps some.
 
I once put drew up a business plan that I gave to a store owner because I wanted to become that store's manager. I put a LOT of thought into it and had some ideas that I think could've worked out well.

It got ignored, but sometimes I think about finding an underdeveloped market somewhere and getting something started.

Not in Charlotte, though. This market is way oversaturated as it is.
 
Man this draft is a train wreck right now. Stupid sexy Crater's Claws and Icy Blast taking me off color. Basically dumped half my first pack to get into blue red, and couldnt pick up enough creatures by the end so i had to drop in three white dudes with no fixing :(
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";151403450]Man this draft is a train wreck right now. Stupid sexy Crater's Claws and Icy Blast taking me off color. Basically dumped half my first pack to get into blue red, and couldnt pick up enough creatures by the end so i had to drop in three white dudes with no fixing :([/QUOTE]

I went Jeskai in mine after nothing green of note past mana dork showed up since of course I took a Heelcutter, which of course won me both games round 1. Granted, Jeskai Ascendancy and Outpost Siege together were being ridiculous as fuck.

I think trying to splash a fourth color is just wrong with FRF going first, even though I get pissed off when I get a third pack Butcher of the Horde, because its fuck-off annoying opening an utterly uncastable bomb in pack three.
 
I went Jeskai in mine after nothing green of note past mana dork showed up since of course I took a Heelcutter, which of course won me both games round 1. Granted, Jeskai Ascendancy and Outpost Siege together were being ridiculous as fuck.

I think trying to splash a fourth color is just wrong with FRF going first, even though I get pissed off when I get a third pack Butcher of the Horde, because its fuck-off annoying opening an utterly uncastable bomb in pack three.

I know what you mean. Mono color to tricolor pack is so gross.
 

Toxi

Banned
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";151254014]Man, I've never played a deck seriously with Daze in it before. It's really fun.

Have underground sea + island in play

cast entomb, daze it picking up the sea, tap island to pay for daze

replay sea for turn, cast reanimate

VALUE[/QUOTE]
this is gross and beautiful
 

Yeef

Member
Magic|GAF,

I'm looking to open a storefront in town and was wondering if any of you guys had any tips for me. The money is already there, but what product should I buy for a good turnaround. How are box prices at your stores? What is your average attendance for FNM and so forth?

Any help would be appreciated. I used to play when the game first came out and got out after the Urza block. I rejoined for a short stint during the Lorwyn block, and played some some pre-releases during the Innistrad block.
Here's a rundown of my experience dealing with Magic and non-magic (non-collectible) gaming from a organizer's end.

Magic:
Try to get to Advanced (or Advanced+) level as quickly as possible. If you have the sort of traffic you think you do, this shouldn't be too hard. Getting a direct sales account can also help a bit on costs. Most distributors will charge about 7~10% more than Wizards Direct on sealed product (a lot of them will match Wizards Direct pricing on pre-release product and throw in bonuses on top of that, though, so usually it makes more sense to get pre-release material from a distributor).

Be consistent with your event schedule from week-to-week. If events are at the same time each week (even if they're not necessarily the same event type) customers become conditioned to just showing up at that time, no matter what may be going on.

Prize support will make a big difference in what sorts of players show up to your events. We use different prize structure based on the event type and Rules Enforcement Level of events. Generally, flatter prize pools will encourage more casual players to show up, while steeper pools bring in the more competitive players. For any event, we also allow participants (and judges) to take store credit at a fixed rate instead of product. it helps a lot, because the more competitive players typically don't want packs. They can use their store credit on singles or (more commonly) towards entry fees for future events. In a crowded market it helps to keep players coming back to your store over he other guys.

It's also important to have rules posted clearly about general behavior guidelines as well as trading policy. We used to not worry too much about players buying and selling direct to each other for cash, but recently decided to disallow it in the store since we suspected it was cutting into our singles sales. (Or singles sales have grown nearly 5 fold since then, so it was having a much larger effect than we thought it was).

During events, clocks and round timers are also pretty important. We typically have a screen setup with the countdown clock in Wizards Event Reporter. The local players are used to it, but it's surprising how many of the grinders that show up for premier events are taken off guard by actually being able to peek at the round timer whenever they want instead of having to ask a judge.

As far as FNM attendance goes, we typically get between 12 and 24 on a normal week. When the college kids are on break we'll usually get more; typically in the high 20's to mid 30's. We do draft for FNM, except for every once-in-a-while when we do 2HG sealed.

It's also very important to have an online presence. Your website and/or Facebook page is a must. Even if you can't do e-commerce, just having things like an event list and an official trade-in policy posted and easily accessible encourages people to come into your store. There are a lot of facebook groups out who's sole purpose is for advertising magic events for specific regions. They're surprisingly popular and helpful, especially among the more competitive players.

Singles are super-annoying to deal with, but typically worth the hassle. Make sure you have a nice, well-lit display case. Depending on your crowd, you'll want to keep different things in good supply. EDH and Modern staples are usually sure bets in our area, but I imagine it changes from market to market. Get to know your player base and go from them. A good way to get the ball rolling on singles is to pick up a few card lots online. make sure to keep an eye on prices, especially during the weekends of big events. When people see a card getting a lot of play at the bigger tournaments, prices tend to spike fairly quickly. MTGStocks is a good way to keep up on the trends. On a typical week, I'll update Standard pricing once or twice a week and non-standard pricing once a week by checking mtgstocks. On an event weekend, I'll typically update prices each morning of that weekend and the following Monday morning.

As far as sealed product is concerned, you obviously want to keep anything that's currently in standard in stock and anything else that's current. For older product, you very much need some familiarity with the sets. No one is going to want Fallen Empires packs, for example. Know the popular sets and keep them in stock if you can. If you have enough stock, lots of the more enfranchised players will be excited to draft them, even if it costs more than a typical draft.

In my experience, it's a good idea to stay away from Event Decks. Newer players are typically more interested in Intro packs since they're cheaper and come with booster packs. More experienced players aren't interested in them because they need a lot of work to be made viable and they'd rather just spend that money on singles for their own deck. Clash packs (and Duel Decks) are a little better, because they have appeal to the newer, kitchen table players. They're two decks all ready to go, so they can play with their friends even if their friends don't have decks of their own.


General Gaming:
We're had a lot of success with Meetup in terms of attracting people to non-Magic gaming events. There is a charge for it, but it's been more than worth it for us. We do a board game night every week and typically get 12 to 20 people showing up regularly. About 10 to 15 of those are people who found out about us on meetup or are friends of those people. Likewise, we have a number of regular customers who run RPG campaigns weekly and we post about it on meetup and people show up. Right now there's a few D&D campaigns going on (ranging form 2nd edition to 5th) and a Shadowrun campaign is about to start. We're also growing a sizable group of people that come in to play the X-Wing miniatures game. The best part is, other than the official board game night, it's all run by regular customers, so it doesn't take any extra manpower on our end.

As far as collectible games go (other than Magic), WarHammer is really popular for us. Like I said before, X-Wing is picking up in popularity. We tried Malifaux but couldn't get it to take off. DiceMasters did have a bunch of people interested in it when it first hit, but the availability issues completely killed any momentum it once had. There's a growing number of people interested in Infinity, so we're going to bringing that in later this week and seeing how it works out.

For traditional board games, things like Dominion, Catan, Munchkin and other staple games are fine to always stock. For anything else, knowing the game (and ideally demoing it) are key to actually selling them to anyone that doesn't do their own research. A lot of publishers offer cheap (or free) demo copies of their games through distributors. Some of them require you to buy a certain number of sales copies to get the demo copy. We offer a discount to anyone who buys a game during board game night. If a game is sitting on the shelf too long, don't be afraid to liquidate it in-store and/or online.

Black Diamond Games has a very informative blog on running a games store. I'd suggest digging through their archives if you have the time.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I want fallen empires packs :(

Speaking of Clash Packs and Event Decks, they should probably discontinue the standard event decks. They're really sucky compared to the clash packs and the clash packs have equivalent cards to a single event deck if you just take the cards from both decks and put them together.
 
God I hate waiting on modo

Edit: cool, looks like kenji is in my queue. He's a big streamer, right?

God, light form, mistfire and pyrotechnics in my opening pack. I have to take pyro, but that hurts.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
If the Magic movie is real then the storylines are already well past locked in at this point. (And WotC aren't going to be the driving impetus behind how the movie's story is focused anyway.) I think this is really just what it looks like -- they had a slot open in the schedule that would let them do a weird thing they normally wouldn't have an opportunity to do, and it would make the Creative guys happy, so they just ran with it.



I mean, they established Ajani really early on as GWR and weren't shy at all about printing him in multicolor. I don't think they're interested in permanently avoiding printing mono-W Ajanis, he's just the least mono of the three white PWs and the most mono one just died, so that leaves Gideon.

Elspeth is comic book dead.
 
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";151458920]God I hate waiting on modo.[/QUOTE]

When you're playing at a store and spend ~25-30% of your time not playing, it's not a huge deal. You chat with people, trade, play pick-up games, etc.

When you're playing online, that time not playing is literally wasted. I hate it.

I know the downtime problem can't be "fixed" in an 8-man draft pod (that's just the way it goes), but it's really rough, and it's a huge problem for Magic Online. If you want the game to be consumed, you have to come up with a way to create a limited tournament that doesn't have downtime (again, I think Leagues theoretically fix this problem, if they can get them off the ground).
 
Yeah, I'm just sitting on my ass trying to bracket out the results as they come in. Its super boring. I hope I get to play against Kenji or whoever is running the teamrevolution account.
 
EDIT. Probably shouldn't tell GB what his finals opponent is going to be playing I suppose? But that was a hell of a moment on Kenji's stream.

Kenji got blown out in the most ridiculous way.
 
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