Support NeoGAF

[Socat]

Black isn't just about being selfish and manipulative. It's also about respecting power, which is part of the reason Sarkhan as been drawn to dragons in the past.

He'll definitely still be red, but not mono-red, since he already had a mono-red card in the same block. If he's 2-colors, he's more likely to be RG than BR, but there's still a small possibility of seeing him in black. Given the ally-color theme, any other 2-color combo doesn't make much sense.

If he's 3-color (I don't think he will be), it'll be Jund colors. It works as a throwback to where he first appeared and it's been confirmed, long ago, that Dragons won't have any wedge cards. Naya and Grixis don't really make much sense since it means you'd need to play with red's enemy colors in an ally-color set.

http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/106159051763/so-with-ugin-in-fate-reforged-and-no-wedge-cards

sniffnoy asked: So with Ugin in Fate Reforged, and no wedge cards in Dragons of Tarkir, does that mean Ramaz won't be showing up this block?

Just because wedge cards as a group aren’t happening later in the block, doesn’t mean there couldn’t be one or two. : )

 

[Angry Grimace]

http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/106159051763/so-with-ugin-in-fate-reforged-and-no-wedge-cards

sniffnoy asked: So with Ugin in Fate Reforged, and no wedge cards in Dragons of Tarkir, does that mean Ramaz won't be showing up this block?

Just because wedge cards as a group aren’t happening later in the block, doesn’t mean there couldn’t be one or two. : )

It sounds like he's referring to the hybrid mana wedge cards in Fate Reforged since this was before they were spoiled.

 

[Crocodile]

I am in fact, aware of this. The point wasn't that its never been done, its that Nicol Bolas was printed 7 years ago and he's printed in those colors because his classic card is Grixis colored. Yeah, they put him in M13 for reasons but they didn't have any three color walkers in the actual wedge set and haven't had a second since Bolas was printed. The difference between Mythic 3 color creatures and walkers is that a creature can be a commander at least.

I can't read your mind and there is pretty much no room for interpretation with regards to what you said. Assuming WOTC and co. don't shit the bed (and they probably have to do it several times in a row) Magic will probably be around for decades. You think in that time we won't have more 3 color PWs? Hell the colors of PW characters change all the time: Ajani went from monocolor to multicolor to monocolor to a different set of multicolor to monocolor again; Venser went from mono-Blue to UW; all of Sarkhan's PW cards are different colors (though always Red).

Now I'll agree that 3 color PWs are rare but that isn't much of argument - if WOTC wants to do a thing, they will do it if makes sense regardless of how commonly they have done it in the past. There was no reason to expect 3 color PWs in Khans once you know about the context of the set (though the PWs got spoiled super early in the season) - Sarkhan left the clans long ago and Sorin isn't even from Tarkir. Similarly, since the clans are losing a third color, if Narset is still affiliated with the Jeskai, it is unlikely she will be URW. Since there is a hole in the PW color combos and Jeskai is now only UW, I strongly believe that she will be UW (again assuming she will be a PW).

So I agree with you that Narset, if she gets a PW card, probably won't be 3 color but you didn't actually argue your point - just said a statement, that left no room for interpretation, that wasn't true.

There's no reason for bolas to be in Dragons of Tarkir. His part in this story is already done with. It'll be Narset and Probably Sarkhan. Narset will be WU and Sarkhan will probably be either BR, RG or BRG.

Prowess will likely end up becoming evergreen down the line. They've been searching for a good blue and red creature mechanic for ages and it fits the bill really well.

Something they mentioned in the R&D videos about Fate Reforged is that development really likes Prowess because its so easy to tune (turn them knobs ) as a mechanic. I like it in general as its a way to get more combat tricks in Cubes without having to run a shit-ton of actual combat tricks

 

[Angry Grimace]

I can't read your mind and there is pretty much no room for interpretation with regards to what you said. Assuming WOTC and co. don't shit the bed (and they probably have to do it several times in a row) Magic will probably be around for decades. You think in that time we won't have more 3 color PWs? Hell the colors of PW characters change all the time: Ajani went from monocolor to multicolor to monocolor to a different set of multicolor to monocolor again; Venser went from mono-Blue to UW; all of Sarkhan's PW cards are different colors (though always Red).

Now I'll agree that 3 color PWs are rare but that isn't much of argument - if WOTC wants to do a thing, they will do it if makes sense regardless of how commonly they have done it in the past. There was no reason to expect 3 color PWs in Khans once you know about the context of the set (though the PWs got spoiled super early in the season) - Sarkhan left the clans long ago and Sorin isn't even from Tarkir. Similarly, since the clans are losing a third color, if Narset is still affiliated with the Jeskai, it is unlikely she will be URW. Since there is a hole in the PW color combos and Jeskai is now only UW, I strongly believe that she will be UW (again assuming she will be a PW).

So I agree with you that Narset, if she gets a PW card, probably won't be 3 color but you didn't actually argue your point - just said a statement, that left no room for interpretation, that wasn't true.

In fairness, that statement was intended to read "they don't make," not "they don't have" 3 color walkers. So mea culpa on that.

But they haven't made more of them for a reason, and I don't think its "we couldn't find a flavor justification." It seems obvious that its mechanical and its probably because 3 color cards in general are both hard to design and narrow in who plays them. Its not a creative issue.

Will they have a three-color walker again? Sure, they get desperate all the time and do shit they shouldn't. But in the current design scheme? I just tend to doubt it - the 2 set paradigm could change that - I think they don't like PW cards being disappointing and unplayed. A 3-color walker could happen if they go back to Alara or something, but I think you'd really want it to be in a specifically three-color set, and we just left one.

 

[Socat]

It sounds like he's referring to the hybrid mana wedge cards in Fate Reforged since this was before they were spoiled.

Wedge cards did happen as a group in Fate Reforged, so I doubt that inference.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Wedge cards did happen as a group in Fate Reforged, so I doubt that inference.

The problem with assuming he's referring to cards in Dragons (and not FRF) is that it appears to make the statements conflicting to the point of one of them is just wrong and the statement Yeef listed specifically refers to Dragons of Tarkir, whereas the other refers to "later in the block."

 

[charlequin]

But they haven't made more of them for a reason

This is the least useful type of argument for a game like Magic that has to make its money on constant variation and novelty. After Apocalypse they "never" print wedge cards at all -- except there was a surprise cycle of them in Planar Chaos, and then Doran in Lorwyn, and then a whole bunch of 'em in Khans.

There won't be a ton of three-color planeswalkers, for sure, but there will almost certainly be more. They're gonna give Ramaz a card eventually. They're gonna print another Bolas eventually (and no, they're not going to make Bolas anything but three colors.) At some point they'll do another set with at least one three-color faction. And so on and so forth.

Sarkhan wouldn't have black due to getting away from Bolas's influence , and the new streak in his hair would indicate some sort of change, and his mentality fits more with Temur than Mardu after the events in this block.

I just don't see the blue thing. We've all seen the perils of judging planeswalker colors by their outfits in the past, and glowy blue is the visual representation Creative's been using for ghostfire, so I don't think the visual element is a big clue there -- and there just isn't much to actually suggest blue for Sarkhan storywise. In the KTK trailer it's actually this Sarkhan speaking in retrospect, but he still sounds like the same emotional, savage, power-driven guy. Nothing about the storyline they just put him through is gonna make him into the kind of guy who reads a book.

It sounds like he's referring to the hybrid mana wedge cards in Fate Reforged since this was before they were spoiled.

He's been consistent in not considering the FRF hybrid cards to be "wedge cards" proper, and also "one or two" pretty straightforwardly doesn't apply since there's ten of them.

 

[Yeef]

You have to take the wedge thing in context. The first time it was asked, the answer was a very straightforward "Nope."

Then as people kept asking, Rosewater decided to start saying "maybe," just to humor people.

Nov 28 - Nope.

Dec. 4 - No

Dec. 5 - Maybe

Dec. 25 - There could be one or two

 

[Angry Grimace]

This is the least useful type of argument for a game like Magic that has to make its money on constant variation and novelty. After Apocalypse they "never" print wedge cards at all -- except there was a surprise cycle of them in Planar Chaos, and then Doran in Lorwyn, and then a whole bunch of 'em in Khans.

There won't be a ton of three-color planeswalkers, for sure, but there will almost certainly be more. They're gonna give Ramaz a card eventually. They're gonna print another Bolas eventually (and no, they're not going to make Bolas anything but three colors.) At some point they'll do another set with at least one three-color faction. And so on and so forth.

Sure, but I explained the reasons I'm referring to in successive posts, and you're not specifically referring to them (at least I don't know that you are). Will they make one? I'm sure of it, but I don't think its going to happen just because they want to fill a slot in some expansion for aforementioned mechanical reasons, not just because "well Ajani is Naya, so..." If Bolas gets reprinted, will he be Grixis still? I imagine so, but they'd need a serious flavor reason to have Bolas there and probably support around Grixis colors being a thing.

He's been consistent in not considering the FRF hybrid cards to be "wedge cards" proper, and also "one or two" pretty straightforwardly doesn't apply since there's ten of them.

I think that would make one of those statements intentionally misleading, which I don't think Maro does.

 

[Hero]

"They don't make 3 color 'walkers."

What in the actual fuck?

Even if that were true, which it isn't, that is never a reason to set precedent in Magic.

The existence of the Planeswalker card type should be obvious that Magic has to develop and try new things in order to change the landscape up.

 

[Crocodile]

In fairness, that statement was intended to read "they don't make," not "they don't have" 3 color walkers. So mea culpa on that.

But they haven't made more of them for a reason, and I don't think its "we couldn't find a flavor justification." It seems obvious that its mechanical and its probably because 3 color cards in general are both hard to design and narrow in who plays them. Its not a creative issue.

Will they have a three-color walker again? Sure, they get desperate all the time and do shit they shouldn't. But in the current design scheme? I just tend to doubt it - the 2 set paradigm could change that - I think they don't like PW cards being disappointing and unplayed. A 3-color walker could happen if they go back to Alara or something, but I think you'd really want it to be in a specifically three-color set, and we just left one.

Flavor/Creative is a HUGE consideration in PW (and legendary creature) design and will only become increasing so as the game becomes more story centric with the switch to 2-set blocks. Filling up a set/bock with 3 color cards is hard (especially lower rarities). Making a singe 3 color card for a set/block isn't (or at least not to the degree to be prohibitive).

With regards to playability, that's what their FF League is there to discern. They don't always get things right but if they make a 3 color PW, you can they will push it to encourage at least some Standard play (being 3 colors helps them push the card).

 

[Angry Grimace]

Let's put it this way: when they put a 3 color walker into standard, I'll donate 20 dollars to the charity of this thread's choice.

I'm fairly certain my money's safe for a long time. (Or until Monday, let's find out.)

 

[Haly]

I nominate the Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center.

 

[Socat]

Let's put it this way: when they put a 3 color walker into standard, I'll donate 20 dollars to the charity of this thread's choice.

I'm fairly certain my money's safe for a long time. (Or until Monday, let's find out.)

I'm betting we get some good info from PAX East. I know I am lucky enough to be going and will be at the MtG panel

 

[Angry Grimace]

I'm betting we get some good info from PAX East. I know I am lucky enough to be going and will be at the MtG panel

Normal set release patterns would have spoilers starting on Monday (usually three weeks of spoilers for a big set, 2 for small), but I wouldn't be surprised if they compress it down due to the small amount of time in between FRF and DTK and to keep the big fun reveals for PAX.

 

[Crocodile]

Normal set release patterns would have spoilers starting on Monday (usually three weeks of spoilers for a big set, 2 for small), but I wouldn't be surprised if they compress it down due to the small amount of time in between FRF and DTK and to keep the big fun reveals for PAX.

Spoilers start March 2nd on the website

 

[Socat]

Spoilers start March 2nd on the website

Day after my birthday :O

 

["God's Beard!"]

That -1 ability would be format-warping, bannable bonkers. Think of any really good sorcery or instant spell in the game, and then imagine its mana cost is just UWR. Let's just say Time Stretch, for the sake of argument.

This would be better than that.

That's fine.

 

[charlequin]

Will they make one? I'm sure of it, but I don't think its going to happen just because they want to fill a slot in some expansion for aforementioned mechanical reasons, not just because "well Ajani is Naya, so..."

That's basically fair, I just want to point to Doran again as evidence that you can print a rare three-color card in a set that doesn't otherwise have a three-color theme.

I think that would make one of those statements intentionally misleading, which I don't think Maro does.

He's only talking about three-color gold cards when he answers the questions about "wedge cards," which I can't think of the right keywords to search out the answer for so I won't cite for the moment.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Something I noticed but didn't really think about until someone pointed this out: does it seem to anyone else like being on the play vs. the draw is way more important this standard season?

 

[Yeef]

Something I noticed but didn't really think about until someone pointed this out: does it seem to anyone else like being on the play vs. the draw is way more important this standard season?

Yes. I noticed that during game day. Any match that went to 3 games, the person on the play won the game. meaning, typically, whoever won the first game won the match.

 

[OnPoint]

Let's put it this way: when they put a 3 color walker into standard, I'll donate 20 dollars to the charity of this thread's choice.

I'm fairly certain my money's safe for a long time. (Or until Monday, let's find out.)

I'm with you Grimace. I don't think we will see another 3 color walker for a long time.

 

[charlequin]

Something I noticed but didn't really think about until someone pointed this out: does it seem to anyone else like being on the play vs. the draw is way more important this standard season?

Play is inherently (if incrementally) more powerful in a haymaker format.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I cut the Sylvan Caryatids from my Sidisi Whip deck for two Bile Blights, the fourth Murderous Cut and a Swamp. Cut the fourth Drown from the board for a Crux of Fate to help the Abzan Aggro and Heroic matchups. Hopefully that's enough to adjust for the PTQ tomorrow.

 

[Yeef]

Had a pretty fun draft tonight. First-picked Flame-Rush Rider and went basically mono red splashing black for removal and white for the two Ponyback Brigades I managed to get. Also got 2 heelcutters and 2 trumpet blasts. Also had the Humble Defector + Collateral Damage combo, which is always fun.

 

[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";152990288]I cut the Sylvan Caryatids from my Sidisi Whip deck for two Bile Blights, the fourth Murderous Cut and a Swamp. Cut the fourth Drown from the board for a Crux of Fate to help the Abzan Aggro and Heroic matchups. Hopefully that's enough to adjust for the PTQ tomorrow.[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure Sidisi Whip is as high tier of a deck as expected it would be once it added Tasigur, but good luck.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Drafted Fate Reforged for the first time last night, making this my third draft overall. After I opened with Yasova, I went Temur, focusing on green and blue. With the Khans packs, red dried up and there were a ton of black cards, including multiple straight up Sultai cards, but for some reason my brain went, "Crap, there aren't many good red cards, but I guess I'll have to take them," instead of "Oh hey, I was mainly focusing on green and blue anyway, I'll just switch to Sultai." That said, I did win two of my four matches, and I won without taking much damage in both games of each matches I won.

The way I lost the last game was interesting. My opponent had a janky five-color deck that had a ton of "refuges" (enters tapped, gain 1 life) that he was saying he didn't expect to work well at all. I was at 12 and had Cloudform and Hooting Mandrills out, and my opponent was at 2 with Arashin Cleric and some 4-power creature out that I had enchanted with Singing Bell Strike. He used Icy Blast on Hooting Mandrills (freezing it due to ferocious) and Mob Rule to take control of the Cloudform, then used Wild Slash on it to kill it. His next turn, he used Reach of Shadows to destroy Hooting Mandrills, and though I was able to destroy his 4-power creature, which he had enough mana to untap the next turn, he managed to wear me down, since I wasn't drawing any creatures.

 

[Hero]

Play is inherently (if incrementally) more powerful in a haymaker format.

I believe it's also a lot more important because whoever plays gets to play a morph creature first + unmorph. Really huge.

 

[Joe Molotov]

I was drafting Thursday with some newbs. I didn't realize how newb until we were four deep into a pack of Fate Reforged when a Silumgar fell to me.

Felt pretty guilty, but....yeah...I still slammed that shit. The guy across from me got passed a Mantis Rider; I did what I had to do.

One guy literally drafted one creature. Pro-Tip: Draft more than one creature.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I'm not sure Sidisi Whip is as high tier of a deck as expected it would be once it added Tasigur, but good luck.

Thanks! I do think Torrent Elemental is a bigger grab than Tasigur for the deck, though. Played against control and RW tokens so far, won both matchups. Looking around, its all RW tokens which is a great matchup for me. Don't see any abzan aggro which is good.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I dont know what it is about CFB and everyone playing the same deck. Last time it was mono blue, and now I've only played against one deck that wasn't RW tokens -_-

 

[Crocodile]

Dear God, the GP Memphis stream and the SCG LA stream couldn't be more different in quality. The GP Memphis stream is UNWATCHABLE in comparison. DAMN O_O

I believe it's also a lot more important because whoever plays gets to play a morph creature first + unmorph. Really huge.

That's true in Limited but we were talking about Standard where most of the morphs are unplayable

 

[manipulate]

these midrange vs midrange matches

lawd pls no more

 

[kirblar]

these midrange vs midrange matches

lawd pls no more

Modern or Standard?

 

[bigkrev]

Day after my birthday :O

Holy shit, I'm also a March 1st!

 

[ultron87]

That Dredge deck with Pharaoh seemed cool.

 

[Jhriad]

Okay, I'm trying to make sure I have this right. If I bring a Hornet Queen into play via something like Flamerush Rider (creating a copy when it attacks and the copy is tapped and attacking) I can't attack with the insect tokens that the newly created Hornet Queen would create because I've already had to declare all attackers. This is assuming that I have Temur Ascendancy giving them haste.

Is that correct?

 

[SigmasonicX]

Okay, I'm trying to make sure I have this right. If I bring a Hornet Queen into play via something like Flamerush Rider (creating a copy when it attacks and the copy is tapped and attacking) I can't attack with the insect tokens that the newly created Hornet Queen would create because I've already had to declare all attackers. This is assuming that I have Temur Ascendancy giving them haste.

Is that correct?

In a turn, you can't declare attackers except at the start of a declare attackers step. So no, the 1/1 tokens can't attack that turn.

 

["God's Beard!"]

6-2, fml -_-

FUCKING SEVEN MATCHES AGAINST RW TOKENS

wat da fuck

 

[manipulate]

Modern or Standard?

Standard. They're kinda reminiscent of control mirrors in some ways

 

[Firemind]

Not that great of a matchup after all, eh?

 

["God's Beard!"]

Not that great of a matchup after all, eh?

5-2 against tokens is fine, I mulled to five both games one of my losses and the other the guy kept managing to get double outpost siege in play which is ancestral recall every turn.

 

[bigkrev]

Just tuned into GP Memphis for a few minutes.... do they seriously not have graphics and are just using an iPad for life total displays?

EDIT: NVM, it's just for the side games.

 

[WanderingWind]

Diverse standard has some first world Magic problems. I don't even know what type of deck I want to play. Is grand master doing anything? I tried him out in Modern UWR Geist/Delver but he just eats Paths for breakfast.

 

[f0rk]

Diverse standard has some first world Magic problems. I don't even know what type of deck I want to play. Is grand master doing anything? I tried him out in Modern UWR Geist/Delver but he just eats Paths for breakfast.

You play like 1 in r/w because it's good when you flood.
Was never going to be good in modern. Dies to everything (getting it pathed on turn 2 is pretty good for you lol) and doesn't even do much

 

[kirblar]

Diverse standard has some first world Magic problems. I don't even know what type of deck I want to play. Is grand master doing anything? I tried him out in Modern UWR Geist/Delver but he just eats Paths for breakfast.

It's bad and was obviously bad from the start. Most of the Mythic cycle are just too mana-intensive.

edit: Alex is 10-0! GO ALEX

 

[ThLunarian]

It's bad and was obviously bad from the start. Most of the Mythic cycle are just too mana-intensive.

Good lord, how is Grandmaster still selling for 12 dollars? Price memory is a hell of a thing I guess.

 

[sibarraz]

Trying to build a warrior deck dor standard, which considerations should I have in order to not waste all the fuel of my deck? I feel that I had a strong start but later one masive removal and I'm screwed

 

[kirblar]

Good lord, how is Grandmaster still selling for 12 dollars? Price memory is a hell of a thing I guess.

It's a good Commander card.

 

[kirblar]

lol Alex you dummy- don't Tutor into an Ashiok. (Reanimating Rhinos = gg)