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Magic: The Gathering |OT3| Enchantment Under the Siege

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G.ZZZ

Member
I'm always curious when I see people say shit like this. What were these halcyon days of yore that today's fallen era fails to live up to?

I've been playing since 95' and for me Extended up until they banned duals, and legacy after split and before Survival ban and Delver were the closest to the best format ever existed.

Legacy with zoo, gobs, counterbalance, elves, TnT, Canadian Thresh, Iggy Pop, etc... color representation was far more diversified and we had other "pillars" aside from just brainstorm (lackey/ritual/bs).
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I've been playing since 95' and for me Extended up until they banned duals, and legacy after split and before Survival ban and Delver were the closest to the best format ever existed.

Legacy with zoo, gobs, counterbalance, elves, TnT, Canadian Thresh, Iggy Pop, etc... color representation was far more diversified and we had other "pillars" aside from just brainstorm (lackey/ritual/bs).

That seems like a very specific period of time to like Magic.

I've always been a bit perplexed when people say they "don't like Standard."
 

kirblar

Member
That seems like a very specific period of time to like Magic.

I've always been a bit perplexed when people say they "don't like Standard."
They don't like having to re-learn things over and over- they want to be able to leave and come back and beat up people with their deck.
 

Yeef

Member
Some standard seasons are obviously better than others. This Standard season is great though. I'm not normally a huge constructed guy, but Khans (and Fate) has a good number of viable decks.
 

kirblar

Member
Some standard seasons are obviously better than others. This Standard season is great though. I'm not normally a huge constructed guy, but Khans (and Fate) has a good number of viable decks.
When you give bullshit to all the colors, things work out! When you don't, things get bad.
 

G.ZZZ

Member
That seems like a very specific period of time to like Magic.

I've always been a bit perplexed when people say they "don't like Standard."

? very specific what. Extended was a real format for more than 5 years. Legacy for a couple. Extended basically died when they rotated out duals and legacy didn't came too much after. At least if i recall it correctly, but i'm pretty sure i played a decent amount of time back then. I played extended and enjoyed it from late visions to mirrodin iirc.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
? very specific what. Extended was a real format for more than 5 years. Legacy for a couple. Extended basically died when they rotated out duals and legacy didn't came too much after. At least if i recall it correctly, but i'm pretty sure i played a decent amount of time back then. I played extended and enjoyed it from late visions to mirrodin iirc.

I guess its less that its a short period of time and more that you're talking about something from more than a decade ago. Why are you still playing?
 

aidan

Hugo Award Winning Author and Editor
That seems like a very specific period of time to like Magic.

I've always been a bit perplexed when people say they "don't like Standard."

I came back to game after a decade+ away at around the time Theros was released. I thought I didn't like standard. I've since realized that I just didn't like Ravnica/Theros Standard.

Also, I don't like having to constantly spend money to keep my decks up to speed.
 
I'm not saying he's five colors. But that is a lot of colors.

This is the future-Sarkhan look we saw previewed way back in the KTK animated trailer. The pin is a bit exaggerated from how it looks:

zOM0iC9.png

I don't think it's completely impossible that Sarkhan is Temur or something now, but he's definitely not the first 5-color PW. The more likely explanation is that the shock of hair is ghostfire-colored due to Ugin and he's red/green or something.

Just in general, I wouldn't expect to ever see PW characters dip into more than three colors, even over time; there isn't really a concept in their flavor conception of the colors to have a real person whose personality is defined by more than three colors.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
This is the future-Sarkhan look we saw previewed way back in the KTK animated trailer. The pin is a bit exaggerated from how it looks:



I don't think it's completely impossible that Sarkhan is Temur or something now, but he's definitely not the first 5-color PW. The more likely explanation is that the shock of hair is ghostfire-colored due to Ugin and he's red/green or something.

Just in general, I wouldn't expect to ever see PW characters dip into more than three colors, even over time; there isn't really a concept in their flavor conception of the colors to have a real person whose personality is defined by more than three colors.

5 color also means nobody plays it.

I came back to game after a decade+ away at around the time Theros was released. I thought I didn't like standard. I've since realized that I just didn't like Ravnica/Theros Standard.

Also, I don't like having to constantly spend money to keep my decks up to speed.

you might be playing the wrong game, mate
 

OnPoint

Member
Just got back from the Modern event at the store, went 2-2 with my Polymorph Tokens deck. Lost a real close one to UWR Control because I didn't maindeck an Island. Definitely gonna be making that change. Also need a way to deal with Zoo because it's actually pretty big in this meta. I'm thinking maybe Engineered Explosives unless someone else has any ideas for what is basically a WB Token deck.
 
It wouldn't be a competitive deck, just something to play when I feel like using something silly.

If we expand the card pool to non-Standard cards, there's stuff like Stuffy Doll and Boros Reckoner, and keeping with the insect army theme, Saber Ants.

I have a ridiculous casual deck that equips up Hornet Nest's toughness and uses Spiteful Bully to generate 3 bees per turn. Other creatures include Mogg Maniac and High Priest of Penance. It's four colours, fragile, but funny.

I like the Manifest idea, though! That sounds pretty rad.
 

lupin23rd

Member
Man, hearing you guys talk about Necro decks brings back memories. Played my first ever PTQ back for PT Columbus in 1996 and made top 8 in the junior division.

The idea of wasting a lot of money buying cards that rotate quickly out of Standard makes me wonder how I ever competed back in the day, given that I was a high school student with no job to actually buy cards. Ironic that once I had money, I never played up until now.

Going to my first Modern tournament this weekend, which also happens to be my first Grand Prix. Trying to put together a sideboard for my Burn deck (RWg), kind of hard seeing a lot of good hate cards and having as little insight into the metagame as I do. Expecting maybe Burn, Infect, and Abzan, but worried about life gain decks.

Currently have:

2 x Blood Moon
2 x Leyline of Punishment
3 x Destructive Revelry
2 x Deflecting Palm
3 x Kor Firewalker
3 x Molten Rain

Not sure about the Leylines, but if I run up against some life gain I might be screwed. Want to keep the Blood Moons since I think they wreck some decks real bad. Have the Molten Rains in there as kind of a "board in Blood Moons and side out some of the multi-color burn" but not sure if that's good. Firewalker in for the mirror match, am I wrong in thinking that taking 6 having to do two fetch lands to get two sacred foundry (paying to come into play untapped) to play the darn thing might be a bad idea or is the life gain that much of a swing?

Really wanted to drop some Rakdos Charm, or maybe sweeper burn (Volcanic Fallout or Earthquake), or maybe some non-red removal (in case I hit an opposing Firewalker or something big) might not be a bad idea.

Thoughts?
 

OnPoint

Member
No ideas for SB slots for me against Zoo? Dang... still leaning toward Engineered Explosives slots, especially since Affinity isn't represented at all.

Unless someone wants to help, I'll move on.

Anyway, we have two planeswalkers coming in Dragons of Tarkir. I always love us trying to figure out what they'll be doing by making them up. No one seems to be arguing that Narsett is going to be one of them. I'm going to guess the other is Sarkhan. So let's imagine!

Narsett, Sage of the Unwritten (1)(U)(W)

+2: Target creature gets +1/+0 and gains unblockable until the end of the turn
- X: X target creatures get +1/+0 and gain first strike until your next turn
-7: Put an Emblem in play that reads "Whenever a creature you control deals combat damage to an opponent, you may exile the top card of your library. If you do, you may play it without paying for its casting cost as long as it remains exiled"

2​

I'm not too sold on my minus ability for Narsett, but I do like that she is a combat based planeswalker for her first two abilities and not a card advantage engine in colors that almost always default to that.

Sarkhan, Unbroken (3)(G)(R)

+2: Reveal the top card of your library. If it's a creature or a land, put it into your hand.
- X: Put an X/X red and green Dragon creature token with Flying into play. It fights target creature an opponent controls.
-8: You may put any number of Dragon cards from your hand and from all graveyards into play under your control. Dragons gain haste until the end of the turn.

3​

With this version of Sarkhan I wanted to call back to his first appearance with his plus ability, but make it better since he's all better. His second ability is weird, but I liked the idea of previous Sarkhan cards where he summoned dragons from nowhere, and I wanted him to have some sort of "removal". I wanted his ultimate to be Dragon based, but also be super amazing. I also like the reanimation aspect as a nod to him bring Ugin back from the dead.
 

Socat

Member
Man, hearing you guys talk about Necro decks brings back memories. Played my first ever PTQ back for PT Columbus in 1996 and made top 8 in the junior division.

The idea of wasting a lot of money buying cards that rotate quickly out of Standard makes me wonder how I ever competed back in the day, given that I was a high school student with no job to actually buy cards. Ironic that once I had money, I never played up until now.

Going to my first Modern tournament this weekend, which also happens to be my first Grand Prix. Trying to put together a sideboard for my Burn deck (RWg), kind of hard seeing a lot of good hate cards and having as little insight into the metagame as I do. Expecting maybe Burn, Infect, and Abzan, but worried about life gain decks.

Currently have:

2 x Blood Moon
2 x Leyline of Punishment
3 x Destructive Revelry
2 x Deflecting Palm
3 x Kor Firewalker
3 x Molten Rain

Not sure about the Leylines, but if I run up against some life gain I might be screwed. Want to keep the Blood Moons since I think they wreck some decks real bad. Have the Molten Rains in there as kind of a "board in Blood Moons and side out some of the multi-color burn" but not sure if that's good. Firewalker in for the mirror match, am I wrong in thinking that taking 6 having to do two fetch lands to get two sacred foundry (paying to come into play untapped) to play the darn thing might be a bad idea or is the life gain that much of a swing?

Really wanted to drop some Rakdos Charm, or maybe sweeper burn (Volcanic Fallout or Earthquake), or maybe some non-red removal (in case I hit an opposing Firewalker or something big) might not be a bad idea.

Thoughts?

I would take out the molten rains for volcanic fallout or anger of the gods for sweepers. And as far as the leylines go, It would depend on how often you have the RR to cast it to determine if its worth a spot over something like skullcrack, which also does damage in addition to nullifying lifegain.
 

ultron87

Member
No ideas for SB slots for me against Zoo? Dang... still leaning toward Engineered Explosives slots, especially since Affinity isn't represented at all.

Unless someone wants to help, I'll move on.

Timely Reinforcements perhaps, if it isn't main deck already? I assume you've already got a good chunk of removal in the main deck with Paths and Dismembers.
 

OnPoint

Member
Timely Reinforcements perhaps, if it isn't main deck already? I assume you've already got a good chunk of removal in the main deck with Paths and Dismembers.

Yeah I'm main decking that. I'll post a deck list later tonight. Back to Timely, I might up it to the full 4 copies. It overperformed for me all night in every match. The problem with that in the Zoo matchup was that by the time I dropped Timely, he had Volcanic Fallout ready to clear my side and smash in for a bunch.

Dismember was something I wished I had several times during the night. I def have the full set of Paths, but I will definitely be adding a couple Dismembers.
 
Anyway, we have two planeswalkers coming in Dragons of Tarkir. I always love us trying to figure out what they'll be doing by making them up. No one seems to be arguing that Narsett is going to be one of them. I'm going to guess the other is Sarkhan. So let's imagine!

I think you need Narset to do something spell-y in her top two abilities to really feel like the same character, maybe some kind of impulse-for-spells if she's only blue-white.

The only printed PW with an ultimate as narrow as your Sarkhan's is the unpopular Nissa 1.0. Just in general the ultimate shouldn't rely on you having certain specific things in your deck.
 

Apeopleman

Member
I'm ready to make the jump into standard. Out of all the competitve decks I've seen, I really like Green devotion. Below is a list of cards I am looking to buy.

4 Elvish Mystic
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Voyaging Satyr
4 Whisperwood Elemental
4 Polukranos, World Eater
4 Courser of Kruphix
3 Genesis Hydra
2 Hornet Queen
4 Arbor Colossus
3 Nissa, Worldwaker
2 Back to nature
4 Nylea's disciple
3 Hooded Hydra
2x Hornet Nest
2x Frontier Siege

Some guy on facebook is looking to sell me all of that for 223$ shipped. I feel that is too high. I plan on negotiating a counter offer. What is all that valued at in your opinion (consider rotation in September as well)

Also, is there a prefered spot to buy from? Is singling out the best ebay auctions the best thing for me?
 
Almost all of the valuable cards in there are rotating out in September, so keep that in mind. I think you're keeping Whisperwood Elemental, Hooded Hydra (why is it in there?), and Frontier Siege.

The Nissas, Caryatids, Coursers, Polukranos, and Elementals are the valuable cards here. I'm not sure $225 is a good deal for all of those. I mean, if you're going to use the caryatid/courser base in other decks, that is good value.

Go check tcgplayer.com to see if you can't snipe some better prices on these cards.
 

OnPoint

Member
I think you need Narset to do something spell-y in her top two abilities to really feel like the same character, maybe some kind of impulse-for-spells if she's only blue-white.

The only printed PW with an ultimate as narrow as your Sarkhan's is the unpopular Nissa 1.0. Just in general the ultimate shouldn't rely on you having certain specific things in your deck.

Points taken. Let's try this.

Narsett, Sage of the Unwritten (1)(U)(W)

+2: Target creature gets +1/+0 and gains unblockable until the end of the turn
-1: Look at the top four cards of your library. Put one of them into your hand and the rest on the bottom of your library in any order.
-7: Put an Emblem in play that reads "Whenever a creature you control deals combat damage to an opponent, you may exile the top card of your library. If you do, you may play it without paying for its casting cost as long as it remains exiled"

2​

Sarkhan, Unbroken (3)(G)(R)

+2: Reveal the top card of your library. If it's a creature or a land, put it into your hand.
+2: Basic lands you tap for mana produce one more of the appropriate color mana until the end of the turn.
- X: Put an X/X red and green Dragon creature token with Flying and Haste into play. It fights target creature an opponent controls.

3​
 

Socat

Member
Points taken. Let's try this.

Narsett, Sage of the Unwritten (1)(U)(W)

+2: Target creature gets +1/+0 and gains unblockable until the end of the turn
-1: Look at the top four cards of your library. Put one of them into your hand and the rest on the bottom of your library in any order.
-7: Put an Emblem in play that reads "Whenever a creature you control deals combat damage to an opponent, you may exile the top card of your library. If you do, you may play it without paying for its casting cost as long as it remains exiled"

2​

Sarkhan, Unbroken (3)(G)(R)

+2: Reveal the top card of your library. If it's a creature or a land, put it into your hand.
+2: Basic lands you tap for mana produce one more of the appropriate color mana until the end of the turn.
- X: Put an X/X red and green Dragon creature token with Flying and Haste into play. It fights target creature an opponent controls.

3​

Narset's first ability seems too red. Sarkhans first +2 seems too much like Domri's , and they don't like repeating similar abilities among planeswalkers. Second +2 is an odd choice as well, and doesn't seem like Sarkhan at all, more like a Nissa ability.
 

OnPoint

Member
Narset's first ability seems too red. Sarkhans first +2 seems too much like Domri's , and they don't like repeating similar abilities among planeswalkers. Second +2 is an odd choice as well, and doesn't seem like Sarkhan at all, more like a Nissa ability.

Her first ability is LITERALLY Distortion Strike minus the Rebound ability, a blue card.

How about

Sarkhan, Unbroken (3)(G)(R)
+2: Basic lands you tap for mana produce one more of the appropriate color mana until the end of the turn.
-2: Reveal the top card of your library. If it's a creature of CMC 4 or less or a land, put it into play.
- X: Put an X/X red and green Dragon creature token with Flying and Haste into play. It fights target creature an opponent controls.

3​
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Sarkhan and Narset sitting in a tree. Hopefully Sarkhan is less totally insane now.

Speaking of rotation, remember when Courser of Kruphix was $15? I need to sell the randoms I have sitting around, since I have like 7 of them. They're worth like what, 6 bucks now since its totally overrated?

Points taken. Let's try this.

Narsett, Sage of the Unwritten (1)(U)(W)

+2: Target creature gets +1/+0 and gains unblockable until the end of the turn
-1: Look at the top four cards of your library. Put one of them into your hand and the rest on the bottom of your library in any order.
-7: Put an Emblem in play that reads "Whenever a creature you control deals combat damage to an opponent, you may exile the top card of your library. If you do, you may play it without paying for its casting cost as long as it remains exiled"

2​

Sarkhan, Unbroken (3)(G)(R)

+2: Reveal the top card of your library. If it's a creature or a land, put it into your hand.
+2: Basic lands you tap for mana produce one more of the appropriate color mana until the end of the turn.
- X: Put an X/X red and green Dragon creature token with Flying and Haste into play. It fights target creature an opponent controls.

3​

You should automatically win the game if you target Narset with Narset
 
Narset, who recalls the ancestors
UWR

+1: Draw a card, then discard a card
-1: Exile the top four cards of your library. You may play an instant or sorcery among them without paying its mana cost.
-6: Until end of turn, whenever you play a noncreature spell, draw three cards.
[3]
 

Socat

Member
Her first ability is LITERALLY Distortion Strike minus the Rebound ability, a blue card.

How about

Sarkhan, Unbroken (3)(G)(R)
+2: Basic lands you tap for mana produce one more of the appropriate color mana until the end of the turn.
-2: Reveal the top card of your library. If it's a creature of CMC 4 or less or a land, put it into play.
- X: Put an X/X red and green Dragon creature token with Flying and Haste into play. It fights target creature an opponent controls.

3​

Those Sarkhan abilities are even worse imo. +2 is an ok ability, but no Sarkhan flavor. -2 is way too insane to ever be printed. -X is ok without the silly fight ability.
 

Socat

Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";152933489]Narset, who recalls the ancestors
UWR

+1: Draw a card, then discard a card
-1: Exile the top four cards of your library. You may play an instant or sorcery among them without paying its mana cost.
-6: Until end of turn, whenever you play a noncreature spell, draw three cards.
[3][/QUOTE]

I like the cut of your jib sir
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";152933489]Narset, who recalls the ancestors
UWR

+1: Draw a card, then discard a card
-1: Exile the top four cards of your library. You may play an instant or sorcery among them without paying its mana cost.
-6: Until end of turn, whenever you play a noncreature spell, draw three cards.
[3][/QUOTE]

Narset ain't gonna be three color in DTK bro
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
We can't say that for sure right now. MaRo never said that there wouldn't be wedge cards, only that DTK wasn't a "wedge set"

I'll bet you 20 dollars if Narset is a PW in DTK she's not three color. They don't have three color walkers to begin with.
 

Socat

Member
Nicol Bolas is 3 colors. Not saying that Narset will be, just refuting the bolded.

There you go. I am not saying that she definitely will be, but people discounting the possibility are being a little shortsighted. I think if there are only 2 planeswalkers in DTK, they will be Sarkhan and Nicol Bolas.
 

OnPoint

Member
We can't say that for sure right now. MaRo never said that there wouldn't be wedge cards, only that DTK wasn't a "wedge set"

It's possible but improbable. They're moving away from the 3-color alignment in Khans with the story, so I'd imagine they'll focus more on 2 color. Plus the theories we've discussed about there being no UW PW that's alive and relevant, and people seem to like Narsett, plus, they may play up the love angle between Narsett and Sarkhan. So we'll see.
 

ultron87

Member
I was gonna do a Narset that put monk tokens with prowess onto the battlefield, then remembered that prowess won't be a mechanic in Dragons and got a little sad because prowess is great.
 

Yeef

Member
There you go. I am not saying that she definitely will be, but people discounting the possibility are being a little shortsighted. I think if there are only 2 planeswalkers in DTK, they will be Sarkhan and Nicol Bolas.
There's no reason for bolas to be in Dragons of Tarkir. His part in this story is already done with. It'll be Narset and Probably Sarkhan. Narset will be WU and Sarkhan will probably be either BR, RG or BRG.

I was gonna do a Narset that put monk tokens with prowess onto the battlefield, then remembered that prowess won't be a mechanic in Dragons and got a little sad because prowess is great.
Prowess will likely end up becoming evergreen down the line. They've been searching for a good blue and red creature mechanic for ages and it fits the bill really well.
 

Socat

Member
There's no reason for bolas to be in Dragons of Tarkir. His part in this story is already done with. It'll be Narset and Probably Sarkhan. Narset will be WU and Sarkhan will probably be either BR, RG or BRG.

Prowess will likely end up becoming evergreen down the line. They've been searching for a good blue and red creature mechanic for ages and it fits the bill really well.

Sarkhan wouldn't have black due to getting away from Bolas's influence , and the new streak in his hair would indicate some sort of change, and his mentality fits more with Temur than Mardu after the events in this block.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Nicol Bolas is 3 colors. Not saying that Narset will be, just refuting the bolded.

I am in fact, aware of this. The point wasn't that its never been done, its that Nicol Bolas was printed 7 years ago and he's printed in those colors because his classic card is Grixis colored. Yeah, they put him in M13 for reasons but they didn't have any three color walkers in the actual wedge set and haven't had a second since Bolas was printed. The difference between Mythic 3 color creatures and walkers is that a creature can be a commander at least.
 

Yeef

Member
Sarkhan wouldn't have black due to getting away from Bolas's influence , and the new streak in his hair would indicate some sort of change, and his mentality fits more with Temur than Mardu after the events in this block.
Black isn't just about being selfish and manipulative. It's also about respecting power, which is part of the reason Sarkhan as been drawn to dragons in the past.

He'll definitely still be red, but not mono-red, since he already had a mono-red card in the same block. If he's 2-colors, he's more likely to be RG than BR, but there's still a small possibility of seeing him in black. Given the ally-color theme, any other 2-color combo doesn't make much sense.

If he's 3-color (I don't think he will be), it'll be Jund colors. It works as a throwback to where he first appeared and it's been confirmed, long ago, that Dragons won't have any wedge cards. Naya and Grixis don't really make much sense since it means you'd need to play with red's enemy colors in an ally-color set.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Then you should probably refrain from so much hyperbole
Don't tell me what I can't do! [/johnlocke] One card ever, the greater part of a decade ago is hardly "so much hyperbole." The word I intended to use there was "make," not "have."

But I take it then, you don't want to take that $20 bet. There's a clear mechanical reason they don't make three-color planeswalkers. Its because it limits the number of decks it gets played in significantly and if that deck isn't any good (e.g. a Temur walker), then it never sees play, even in formats like Commander.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Black isn't just about being selfish and manipulative. It's also about respecting power, which is part of the reason Sarkhan as been drawn to dragons in the past.

He'll definitely still be red, but not mono-red, since he already had a mono-red card in the same block. If he's 2-colors, he's more likely to be RG than BR, but there's still a small possibility of seeing him in black. Given the ally-color theme, any other 2-color combo doesn't make much sense.

If he's 3-color (I don't think he will be), it'll be Jund colors. It works as a throwback to where he first appeared and it's been confirmed, long ago, that Dragons won't have any wedge cards. Naya and Grixis don't really make much sense since it means you'd need to play with red's enemy colors in an ally-color set.

Every time I look at Maro's blog like half the posts are about bananas, Maro's sandwich preferences or references to his evil twin.
 
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";152933489]Narset, who recalls the ancestors
UWR

+1: Draw a card, then discard a card
-1: Exile the top four cards of your library. You may play an instant or sorcery among them without paying its mana cost.
-6: Until end of turn, whenever you play a noncreature spell, draw three cards.
[3][/QUOTE]

That -1 ability would be format-warping, bannable bonkers. Think of any really good sorcery or instant spell in the game, and then imagine its mana cost is just UWR. Let's just say Time Stretch, for the sake of argument.

This would be better than that.
 
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