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Magic: The Gathering |OT3| Enchantment Under the Siege

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Crocodile

Member
A) But it's not. And even still, that Ancestral is so broken that even cards that are significantly worse than it are still not Modern legal.

B) Let's see them push it then.

A) My point is that the fact that the best Red card in the format is from Alpha doesn't mean development is doing a bad job, it means its doing a GOOD job by making strong cards but avoiding degenerate power creep.

B) Sorry, when I say push I don't mean in power level but rather as in an aspect of that color's slice of the pie. Splinter Twin is probably the strongest incarnation of this ability so far.

No, but being outside of blue's color pie does make them outside of blue's color pie. Blue should not have 3 power flyer on turn 2 for any reason. Cheap, efficient colors shouldn't be in blue. The fact that it immediately made it into every format possible is pretty much proof of that. It didn't replace a worse, cheap efficient blue creature. It set the archetype and it's never been around sense.

And Nemesis...I don't recall blue have protection from anything besides red in its pie. Protection from everything is much, much more white's deal. Plenty has been written about the mistakes of this card, so I feel pretty comfortable with my stance on this one.

I still play Delver variants though.

Are Phantasmal Bear or Cloudfin Raptor outside of Blue's pie? The later can easily be a 3/4 or 4/5 in the right deck. Unlike weenies in other colors, the ones in Blue often come with major stipulations. Having to have a deck full of instant or sorceries is a major, and very blue, stipulation.

Protection from non-colors was moved into Blue's pie the last time we had a major keyword shuffle.
 
Also, I do think this is something red could do

Spell Malfunction - R
Instant
Change the text of target instant or sorcery spell to "This spell deals 3 damage to target creature or player." That spell's controller chooses a new target for it.
A loss of concentration can result in a spell breaking down into its base destructive magic.
 
So broadly speaking, you are saying that the firm is poorly managed, no?

I mean, Magic is outlandishly successful and the fanbase isn't complaining any more per capita than they always have, so I wouldn't agree with that generalization, no. The management of the digital side is incompetent (sorry Worth, sorry Mike) and Hasbro's legal team is ludicrously overprotective, but the top management of the paper game (which I guess is mostly Bill Rose and Aaron Forsythe at this point) is doing a great job.

They can do the allied ones in one set and the enemy fetchlands in the other set next block.

There's like zero chance they reprint both cycles in the block, they're not going to return to land world and burn 100% of their dual land slots on the stuff we saw the previous time.

And Nemesis...I don't recall blue have protection from anything besides red in its pie.

They gave blue protection from things that aren't colors a whole decade ago, but other than about four cards they apparently all keep getting cut by development, lol.

Red is a sucky color because it has no real identity outside of burn.

All the cool stuff red does is at rare, basically. They probably need to come up with a second distinctly red thing that it does every set at common. They've fixed problems like this for green and white in the past, so I think they'll get there.
 

red13th

Member
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All the blue cards with protection from non-colour. A whopping two since the "shuffle" plus lolTNN.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Grip of Chaos seems like the most un-reprintable card. Referencing the stack is weird and reselecting targets at random seems odd.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Every time I see an Alliances card I laugh about how at some point the flavor people sent a message to design insisting the the set be redesigned to feature a race of sapient gorillas a la Planet of the Apes.
 

OnPoint

Member
A) My point is that the fact that the best Red card in the format is from Alpha doesn't mean development is doing a bad job, it means its doing a GOOD job by making strong cards but avoiding degenerate power creep.

B) Sorry, when I say push I don't mean in power level but rather as in an aspect of that color's slice of the pie. Splinter Twin is probably the strongest incarnation of this ability so far.

Are Phantasmal Bear or Cloudfin Raptor outside of Blue's pie? The later can easily be a 3/4 or 4/5 in the right deck. Unlike weenies in other colors, the ones in Blue often come with major stipulations. Having to have a deck full of instant or sorceries is a major, and very blue, stipulation.

Protection from non-colors was moved into Blue's pie the last time we had a major keyword shuffle.

A) I get what you're saying. But if 4/5 are moving up and past because of power creep, then you have to, at some point, move that remaining 1/5 up with them. The others aren't coming back down.

B) They need to be more creative with this and expand it into all rarities of cards. It's a good start. Let's see where it goes.

As for Phantasmal Bear, it works because it's a glass cannon. The thing with Delver's stipulation was that it was printed in a standard with one of the best library manipulation spells of all time. I feel like Delver as a 2/2 flier without Ponder around is way more balanced. But we can't change it now.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Admittedly I don't pay that much attention to the competitive scene, but it seems that barring something like Jeskai Ascendancy competitive red decks are always Mono-Red? Like, I get why that is, the red strategy tends to really hurt for the potential loss in speed that comes from diluting the mana base, but (assuming I'm right at all) how might they develop Red to play better in multicolor decks?
 
Admittedly I don't pay that much attention to the competitive scene, but it seems that barring something like Jeskai Ascendancy competitive red decks are always Mono-Red? Like, I get why that is, the red strategy tends to really hurt for the potential loss in speed that comes from diluting the mana base, but (assuming I'm right at all) how might they develop Red to play better in multicolor decks?

Red/Green is seeing plenty of play, with aggro (albeit just splashing for Atarka's Command), ramp (albeit just splashing for Atarka), and the "dragons" decks.
 

kirblar

Member
Admittedly I don't pay that much attention to the competitive scene, but it seems that barring something like Jeskai Ascendancy competitive red decks are always Mono-Red? Like, I get why that is, the red strategy tends to really hurt for the potential loss in speed that comes from diluting the mana base, but (assuming I'm right at all) how might they develop Red to play better in multicolor decks?
The issue is early manafixing. Aggro decks need to cast their early dorks on time.
 

Yeef

Member
Admittedly I don't pay that much attention to the competitive scene, but it seems that barring something like Jeskai Ascendancy competitive red decks are always Mono-Red? Like, I get why that is, the red strategy tends to really hurt for the potential loss in speed that comes from diluting the mana base, but (assuming I'm right at all) how might they develop Red to play better in multicolor decks?
The thing is, Red is the finisher. It's typically the color with the best early game and the one that has the easiest time getting in the last few points of damage when the board stabilizes. For the late game, Red gets Elkin Bottle effects, like Outpost Siege, but you'd rather get straight card draw from another color in most decks.

On a color-by-color basis:
Red and White will always be aggressive. They're both weenie colors, traditionally and neither gets much card advantage which hurts their long game.
Red and Blue can work as either control or tempo since red gets decent removal and blue gets lots of control cards. The real issue is, Blue/Black will typically be better because black gets better removal than red and better card advantage (even though blue supplies that itself).
Red and Black are both great at creature removal, but not so great at dealing with non-creature permanents. They tend to be aggressive, since you want to capitalize on your opponent's field being clear, but I don't think they have to be. For a more controlling deck, they'd need to push black discard more than they're comfortable with, I think.
Red and Green can play both aggressive and midrange pretty well, but since green's card advantage is tied to creatures, they don't work as well for control. In order for them to play control well, I think we'd have to see more, competitive, green hexproof creatures, and I don't think most people are especially interested in that.

The best ways to get decks other than mono-red decks to play red are: multi-color cards with red in the cost and non-burn, non-removal red spells that compliment what other colors want to do. Some good examples in standard:
  • Circle of Flame (sideboard card, but it encourages a more defensive play style)
  • Anger of the Gods (decent sweeper that punishes aggro strategies)
  • Crater Elemental (great blocker that favors a more midrange strategy)
  • Kurkesh, Onnake Ancient (encourages a more combo-based deck rather than an aggressive deck)

The thing is, these types of cards are rarely pushed and generally require a lot more support than a typical red build.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I'm still annoyed that Fated Conflagration was 1RRR instead of 1RR.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";163089922]But it hits fliers and planeswalkers at instant speed! That's worth RR in my book.[/QUOTE]So does Hero's Downfall, and FC doesn't even necessarily kill them. Even at RRR that's pretty difficult to hit in a deck that's not very red.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";163090615]It's definitely a terrible card.[/QUOTE]

At 1RR I'd at least use it in goofball U/R deck or something (hell, it could do 4 like Stoke does and still be decent). 1RRR its just dumb.
 

red13th

Member
To be honest, sometimes I get kind of annoyed that some colour pairs get pushed like crazy:


Then U/R gets these:


Also, red walkers lol

Black walkers are much worse than Red walkers IMO, I have trouble finding one to cube besides LotV, while Koth and Sarkhan are shoo ins.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Black walkers are much worse than Red walkers IMO, I have trouble finding one to cube besides LotV, while Koth and Sarkhan are shoo ins.

There's only 5 anyways.

Sorin Markov, Liliana Vess, Liliana of the Dark Realms, Liliana of the Veil, Ob Nixilis. At least some of those are playable somewhere. Well, not Dark Realms, eesh. But I think Tibbles is worse.

Red has 3 flavors of shitty Chandras, Tibbles, Daretti, Koth, Decent Chandra that's outclassed by a rare enchantment and Stormbreath Sarkhan. Sarkhan the Stormbreath Dragon is probably okay?
 
Admittedly I don't pay that much attention to the competitive scene, but it seems that barring something like Jeskai Ascendancy competitive red decks are always Mono-Red?

No, Boros Deck Wins and Fires were both big archetypes for a long time. (And RG Monsters is basically Nouveau Fires.)

Are you gonna make |OT4|? Probably needs to go up in the next couple days.

Then U/R gets these:

This combo has a lot of bad spells, for sure, but I'm not exactly weeping for the combo that gets Fire//Ice, Electrolyze, Dack Fayden....
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Don't forget Ral Zarek =V

Somehow, it seems everyone forgets Ral Zarek...
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
They should have just had Koth as the last red Mythic. There's like someone in existence who uses him in Skred and fuck it, its not an expensive card, but I bet you feel less bad opening a walker than a fucking Comet Storm.

They also could have reversed the rarities of Splinter Twin and Comet Storm to make people feel less mad.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I don't care who makes it so long as you use one of my bitchin' titles, such as:

Magic: the Gathering |OT4| (Z–>)90º – (E–N²W)90ºt = 1
 
I recall Sigma making a massive post and suggesting he make the next Ot? Lol

You're probably thinking of the story post. I do like big fancy OPs, but a community thread doesn't call for that. I'd be all for making the Magic Movie OT when it comes to that, though; that's what the story post I made was for. Besides, there's already an active OT with a big OP by me.

Still, yeah, sure, I guess I could do it.
 

Matriox

Member
You're probably thinking of the story post. I do like big fancy OPs, but a community thread doesn't call for that. I'd be all for making the Magic Movie OT when it comes to that, though; that's what the story post I made was for. Besides, there's already an active OT with a big OP by me.

Still, yeah, sure, I guess I could do it.
Oh I just vaguely recall that happening,i wasn't meaning anything else by it.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Magic: the Gathering |OT4| Sorry I locked your thread. Here's some GAF Gold.

Magic: the Gathering |OT4| Ach! Hans, run! Its the Magic Thread!

Magic: the Gathering |OT4| Journey to Nowhere

Magic: the Gathering |OT4| Remember Zendikar? It's back! (in pog form)
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Magic: the Gathering |OT4| Strictly Better than OT3

This one is still my favorite haha
 
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