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Magic: the Gathering |OT4| Izzet Me; Izzet You? A Love Story

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kirblar

Member
:p

But all I'm trying to figure out is on what basis are we even semi-seriously talking about banning a deck that sees what, 7 percent of the meta? That's barely above the percentage that sleeve up whatever brew Woo made the week before an event. Banning or crippling the deck is not even a real discussion at this point.

But, you're right that pump spells need closer watching. Just like every single cantrip, ever single removal spell, every single counter spell, every burn spell and any card draw spell. We just saw how quickly the game changes when actual problem cards are printed, both from the pro deck builders and WotC.

I'm saying, people are scared a deck that crumbles to path and Ghost Quarter. If your deck is weak to Ghost Quarter, you know, it's probably not that dangerous.
It doesn't crumble to path though- that's just it. And I'm not saying it needs to be dealt with right now- it clearly doesn't. It's just going to break eventually.

Cards like Birthing Pod, Survival of the Fittest- we've seen them around before and know that sooner or later they're going to get axed as the number of interactions increased. In this case, it's just that the deck will likely get a nerfbat at some point- not be removed completely. That's all.
 

Firemind

Member
Maybe the reason they didn't include Inkmoth is because they're going to ban it. Always hated the card. It's basically a 2/1 flier for one mana.
 

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
It doesn't crumble to path though- that's just it. And I'm not saying it needs to be dealt with right now- it clearly doesn't. It's just going to break eventually.

Oh, as a infect player, let me tell you it most certainly does. There is a reason we cram Blessing and Vines as 4 ofs. One turn one path just murderates the deck. That and any number of spellskites.

And without proper development, any of the existing archetypes can break. One great red spell can break burn forever. One counter spell slips through and it's all delver, all the time. One more good black spell and Abzan and/or jund is back up to its 70 percent of the meta days. As long as cards keep getting printed, nearly every archetype is going to break eventually.

And for my money, burn is going to break first. Simply because burn and hastey shit is almost all of reds competitive color pie at this point, so they'll keep printing those in various flavors in every single set. It's really only a card or two away. For infect to truely be broken, they'd have to print more infect cards or more Phyrexian mana cards.
 

kirblar

Member
They're halfway to making lifegain not near-irrelevant in the format (Pod and Twin were the two offenders), so it's a start, anyway, towards indirectly going after burn. I agree that the redundancy there is not healthy at all.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I love when Burn players try and tell me they can play around Leyline of Sanctity. Its just so cute.

"Oh, you'll be sorry when I get my destructive revelry, you will! And don't forget me goblin guide!"
 
This is also an example of where development overruling MaRo is a very very very very good thing.

It's basically always a good thing when it's for a format health or limited reason, and not just to cover their own ass (e.g. blocking Affinity from Scars.)

Is infect that dominating to warrant a ban on Glistener Elf?

The point is really just that it's very possible it'll get there. If they don't do anything in particular to help it then it can still pick up huge gets at random (i.e. Become Immense); if they actually print a second block of it, the chances of pushing the deck over go way up. When you've got a deck like that, you want to pay close attention to it, have a good banning option in your back pocket that would weaken it without destroying it, and pay extra attention if/when you bring back the mechanic.

FWIW, I do think the mechanic will show up again, but I certainly don't envy Lauer trying to make it work.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
It's basically always a good thing when it's for a format health or limited reason, and not just to cover their own ass (e.g. blocking Affinity from Scars.)



The point is really just that it's very possible it'll get there. If they don't do anything in particular to help it then it can still pick up huge gets at random (i.e. Become Immense); if they actually print a second block of it, the chances of pushing the deck over go way up. When you've got a deck like that, you want to pay close attention to it, have a good banning option in your back pocket that would weaken it without destroying it, and pay extra attention if/when you bring back the mechanic.

FWIW, I do think the mechanic will show up again, but I certainly don't envy Lauer trying to make it work.

As a related aside, I don't think its entirely coincidental that neither Pestermite or Exarch made it in. I think its partially that they want to keep their options open to slow that deck down if it becomes more oppressive. That they result in free BS wins for people who draft Twin is a related issue lol. But its not like that two card combo would win you every draft or anything.
 

Jhriad

Member
Heavily estimated spreadsheet would say yes lol.
I'm not convinced 15% drop in price is enough, but we'll see.

I don't think a 15% drop is enough for a lot of the Rares and their base valuations are higher than the preorder price for certain cards (looking at you Tezzeret).
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I agree with you on this, and those particular exclusions didn't really bother me.



It's a solid start, but is estimating zero value from the commons really accurate?

Without Serum Visions? Probably?
 

Matriox

Member
It's a solid start, but is estimating zero value from the commons really accurate?

Accurate probably wasn't the best term to use for the overall strategy but as far as the end price is concerned I didn't find it too far.

The only common I can think of is Vines with a price on its head worth selling.

EDIT: I suppose you could implement the $5 for 1000 bulk here, which would net you somewhere around $1.3 per box.
 

bigkrev

Member
I agree with you on this, and those particular exclusions didn't really bother me.



It's a solid start, but is estimating zero value from the commons really accurate?

Based on SCG pre-order prices, 90% are bulk, there are 6 or so at 50 cents, 2-3 at 75 cents, and Smash to Smithereens at 1.50
 
Man the MTGO people on Twitter are a hot mess. If you can't even start to offer up any of the features people have been requesting for years, maybe don't start a conversation about it?

I will say that as someone who mostly uses it for drafting (and MJS, lol) and never redeems I don't quite get this whole pack-price issue everyone's been talking about the past couple days. Redemption went up to $25, so people are redeeming a lot less, so... overall prices are depressed because nobody wants to play on MODO? Is that about right?

Isn't that, in an ideal world, exactly what you would want it to be though?

In the absolute ideal world, your EV on launch day is a decent margin above MSRP, but still close enough to it that stores don't hoard product; you want that EV to be distributed between as many cards as possible (which is why popular rare lands are good for players); and you know it'll dip below MSRP (this will happen for any set that isn't underprinted) but ideally not too far for the period that set's the newest thing.
 

kirblar

Member
Man the MTGO people on Twitter are a hot mess. If you can't even start to offer up any of the features people have been requesting for years, maybe don't start a conversation about it?

I will say that as someone who mostly uses it for drafting (and MJS, lol) and never redeems I don't quite get this whole pack-price issue everyone's been talking about the past couple days. Redemption went up to $25, so people are redeeming a lot less, so... overall prices are depressed because nobody wants to play on MODO? Is that about right?
It's a simple taxation issue. They added a $20 tax to the price of redemption. That fee is now being absorbed by pack costs online as the IRL card prices compete with IRL boxes, so the IRL prices can't compensate for the extra $20, leading it to come out of the supply side.

When worth writes, he writes for his bosses, 24/7. Not to the players. It's just disingenuous when it's corporate speak 24/7. I can't believe that someone believes the things he says.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I like MTGO because I decided to skip FNM to make a kickass lasagna and I can still play Magic while it simmers. *shrug*
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";163255855]I basically never enter FNM anymore, and I keep uninstalling and reinstalling MODO. I just wanna play big tournaments all the time.[/QUOTE]

I don't know why. This is a pretty terrible standard. Its just awful.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Esper Dragons ruined everything. The only decks still around are super aggro red decks, extra grindy midrange decks (to try and grind it out vs. esper) and Esper Dragons itself. I pretty much went back to just drafting and playing Modern when I play constructed on MTGO. I lost so much to Esper Dragons I just stopped caring about Standard (the hilarious part is I HAVE Esper Dragons on MTGO, I just don't want to play it because the mirror is life-sapping).
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";163260523]Modern is even worse, though.[/QUOTE]

Hey now, I've been playing stupid tokens and doing sort of okay with it.

I get to play Sorin 3 in Modern without getting weird looks! I really don't want to buy Liliana though, even though she's probably a decent card in the deck.
 
Hey now, I've been playing stupid tokens and doing sort of okay with it.

I get to play Sorin 3 in Modern without getting weird looks! I really don't want to buy Liliana though, even though she's probably a decent card in the deck.

I'm sitting here with this Twin deck and just hate my life every time I pull it out of the box.

Maybe I should just test bloom titan or something.
 

OnPoint

Member
No money lands and no good low level rarities really changed people's perception of this set. Reception was going so well until the full spoiler too.
 
Are scg articles not actually locked or something? I looked up justin cohen articles and got his premium pro tour report. Do they unlock after a few months?
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";163268797]Are scg articles not actually locked or something? I looked up justin cohen articles and got his premium pro tour report. Do they unlock after a few months?[/QUOTE]

Its SCG
 

y2dvd

Member
Damn, green devotion with Surrak totally overran my Esper Dragons deck in no time. Surrak can get out of control. *cough*

It was a good night for trading. Traded away my foil Foul-Tongue Invocation which was going for $12.75 lol.
 

Joe Molotov

Member
Man, I got wrecked tonight at FNM, at least there was free food. It was Customer Appreciation Night, there was hotdogs and cake, yay.
 

Arksy

Member
After getting mana-screwed in all but two rounds in two FNM's in a row. I'm on the verge of quitting MTG in its entirety. I feel like I need to move to a less absurdly chance based game like I don't know, chess. :/
 

ElyrionX

Member
Esper Dragons ruined everything. The only decks still around are super aggro red decks, extra grindy midrange decks (to try and grind it out vs. esper) and Esper Dragons itself. I pretty much went back to just drafting and playing Modern when I play constructed on MTGO. I lost so much to Esper Dragons I just stopped caring about Standard (the hilarious part is I HAVE Esper Dragons on MTGO, I just don't want to play it because the mirror is life-sapping).

I don't play Standard anymore. But what is so bad about Esper Dragons?
 
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