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Magic: the Gathering |OT8| Eldritch Moon - It's only a paper (and digital) moon
- Thread starter SigmasonicX
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Joe Molotov
Member
Damn, that card is crazy. He doesn't even have to be the one to deal damage, just any creature you control.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Ok, ok random discard isn't red but that 2nd mode is?
charlequin
Banned
Sure. Abbot of the Keral Keep, now repeatable and affecting the opponent. It's a push, but an interesting one.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
No it's an established U/Ux effect.
charlequin
Banned
Historically, "play a card from your opponent's deck" has been blue, but I'm not sure that's something anyone ever consciously decided after the "well it's literally any mechanic so it must be blue" era. Impulse-draw from your own library is firmly red now so this is presumably seen as an extension of that.
Many things have been U/Ux effects. It's reasonably close to an established Red effect now.
GregLombardi
Member
Ive been playing magic 22 years...what the hell does Goad mean and why isnt it explained lol
New key word. See Jeering Homunculus here.
Until your next turn, that creature attacks each combat if able and attacks a player other than you if able.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
it isn't just from that era. We had Daxos as recent as Theros.
they usually put the reminder text on all cards featuring a new mechanic but on the higher rarities they kleave it out if there isn't enough room on the card. Due to the new way modal cards are templated it takes considerably more room.
It's the whole part about Red getting to spend mana as though it's any color that gets me here. The flavor of Red doing it to itself, as I see it, is the Mage frantically going through the spell book, ripping out a page, and going "ah ha! I can use this", or "shit, why did I do that" if it can't use it, and thus looses access to the spell forever. It's s pretty good red flavor. In blue, it's flavored as a Mage reading the mind and stealing the spell from someone, which at least partially justifies spending the mans of any color- if you are powerful enough to take the spell, you can probably twist it in a way so you can cast it, and Blue being able to create different colors of mana for specific purposes (usually involving artifacts) is something it can do.
The flavor for this red effect is obviously stealing a physical item, which kinda doesn't work because sorcerys aren't tangible, why does the item you steal go away if you don't quickly use it, and why can the red Mage suddenly learn how to use its mana in a different way? Using its mana that way has never been part of red, is super niche that it makes zero sense to shift over for the one card a year they make that uses it, and doesn't have any flavor fit?
This feels a lot like Harmonize- an intentional color pie break in a intentionally non-traditional set that 8 years from now people will be tweeting at Maro about because they never do a second card
SigmasonicX
Member
MaRo mentioned on Blogatog that one reason why they don't make land tokens is that players tend to shuffle in their lands in a completely different way than their creatures, one that makes it far more likely that they'd shuffle in the land tokens. I'm guessing it's for this reason that you can't get your opponent's lands.
I'm glad they're doing "temporary draw from your opponent's library" for red. I remember I was disappointed when Theros came out and Daxos had that ability after they made a big deal out of red getting the self version.
The difference between this and giving red random discard is that it's effectively the same as an ability red already has, except you have even less choice over what card you get (such that it needs the "spend mana as any color" clause to be of any use).
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
How is that any different, taking something red does to itself, random discard, and do that to the opponent.
If at all you could say there needs to be an upside for the opponent but the issue of not giving red CA with draw discard like blue has is already there by the red player using a spell.
And Grenko's effect doesn't even have the downside of not having the means to cast whatever he gets, nor the downside of exiling an owned spell he could cast later
Oblivion Sower gets you your opponents lands though.
SigmasonicX
Member
Green has the ability to sacrifice creatures, but you aren't going to see green do that to its opponents anytime soon (besides flying creatures). Besides, random discard isn't even something they do often anymore, even as a downside. I'm pretty sure Whispers of Emrakul is the only one printed in the last few years.
I'm having some trouble parsing the rest of the argument, so I'll address what I think you might be saying:
* As to why red is allowed to get card advantage here, red has already had creatures that "temporary draw" on combat damage, permanents that can "temporary draw" every turn, and other spells that get more than one card. In fact, the very first red "temporary draw" card allowed you to do it repeatedly.
* You still have to pay the converted mana cost of the spell to cast it, and it's entirely likely that the spell doesn't work well with your game plan or current board state.
* Except in very large numbers, "temporary draw" effectively doesn't have a downside no matter from which library you exile. You just as easily couldn't have drawn the card you exiled but couldn't cast this turn. And maybe exiling from your opponent's library got them closer to a card that wins them the game.
And it isn't uncommon for people to accidentally shuffle in their opponent's lands after that. Plus, it's a mythic rare that only does it once in a splashy effect, as opposed to the recurring effect this card has. But in any case, it probably is just a power level issue.
charlequin
Banned
I didn't say they hadn't used it recently. I just mean there are a lot of abilities that showed up in blue ages ago and then kept getting printed in blue out of habit. In recent years there's a bunch of these where R&D suddenly realized "oh wait this doesn't HAVE to be just blue" and this could well be a similar case.
All effects like this, especially on legendary creatures, are gonna work this way now because of Commander, pretty much. It's not a red thing, it's just a recognition that needing to have the right mana when you steal an opponent's draw is hella clunky.
This is pretty much the exact "well blue should be able to do anything, it's the color of MAGIC" reasoning that left blue arbitrarily overpowered for so long.
Not really the same kind of opposite. With impulse-draw, the net effect (you get +1 card if you can cast it that turn) is the same and only the source changes. With discard, the effect (choosing to pay a cost for a spell or ability on your side, vs. forcing disruption on your opponent on the other) is completely different.
charlequin
Banned
wait what
Uh. Whoa
wait what
wait what
Holy shit.
charlequin
Banned
This is a $100 card that's gonna crash to $10 off this set so... that's a thing?
Already confirmed that like CNS it will have unlimited printing for its lifespan until people stop ordering.
Already confirmed that like CNS it will have unlimited printing for its lifespan until people stop ordering.
SigmasonicX
Member
This printing of a really expensive card in this set makes me wonder if they might shift away from the Masters model to instead make more "mostly reprints" sets that have some new cards, similar to how the Core Sets shifted with M10.
Wait if you become the monarch do you just lose monarch if you receive combat damage or do you actually transfer monarch to the one who dealt damage?
And at the beginning of the end step triggers are avoidable if you play the card at the beginning of the end step, right? Because there are no more steps after that.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Whenever a creature deals combat damage to the monarch, its controller becomes the monarch. And although it would be pretty funny if Player A could attack Player B and then Player C casts Act of Aggression on Player A's unblocked creature, that doesn't work.
Beserk is totally a test to see how people react.
Also, the rest of the Infect deck is going to go up in price.
That effect is red because it is temporary.
Blue and Black have the long-term version:
Your idea on random discard doesn't work. Red gets random replacement (Wheel of Fortune) - Random discard is black because it's actually an upgrade on regular discard.
Also, the rest of the Infect deck is going to go up in price.
That effect is red because it is temporary.
Blue and Black have the long-term version:
Your idea on random discard doesn't work. Red gets random replacement (Wheel of Fortune) - Random discard is black because it's actually an upgrade on regular discard.
charlequin
Banned
This card is going to do some of the absolute nuttiest shit in cubes. Also: great use of red randomness that isn't just completely random, and great use of the expansion of copying effects into red.
EDIT:
The awards for best card name, best card designed specifically for use as a meme image, and best top-down design to represent posting in a forum flamewar go to....
Yeah, the card replacement effect is very much red and has been showing up more often again lately.
Hmm, how broken is this effect: "Exile your hand, then draw that number of cards. You may play cards exiled by ~ until end of turn." Probably... pretty broken, right?
Joe Molotov
Member
This card is going to do some of the absolute nuttiest shit in cubes. Also: great use of red randomness that isn't just completely random, and great use of the expansion of copying effects into red.
One time I drafted 3 copies of Reya Dawnbringer in a Conspiracy 1 draft...
Ordered a box, because why not. Was my last 100 on my bank account for this month, but uncommon serum visions, a good chance for nice IoK and other cool stuff is too good to not pick it up.
You can draft this with four people and play in a four people free-for-all, right? Because I won't be able to gather 8 people for the draft, and it also means I can draft three times.
You can draft this with four people and play in a four people free-for-all, right? Because I won't be able to gather 8 people for the draft, and it also means I can draft three times.
SigmasonicX
Member
I really like the design of Volatile Chimera. It's a good way to bring shapeshifting into red, keeping it random but in a way that can make it good.
You can do whatever you want with it. Eight-person drafts are just recommended.
You can do whatever you want with it. Eight-person drafts are just recommended.
What do you think spikes hardest?
That should work. Just know that if you do only 3 packs with 4 people it gets a harder to build a good deck (because there are less overall cards) so that can make the experience less fun.
Inkmoth could get out of hand, because there is also demand for it in modern Affinity and Infect
Glad I scooped those two foils a few years back. I picked up Pendelhavens since it was the only card in the deck I didn't have 4 of (besides Misty Rainforest, which I'm sure will see a reprint).
Once the most expensive (non-land) piece gets cheaper, the deck begins to look more affordable. As people buy in, supply curtails and prices rise.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Wait, Berserk?
Fucking really?
Fucking really?
But wouldn't it stabilise on the same price? Or is it that Modern infect will rise in price due to not having berserk?
Minus berserk, fow and the dual isn't the deck mostly the same? So most of those pieces will disappear from TWO formats then.
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