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Magic: the Gathering - Shadows over Innistrad |OT| Blue's Clues

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bigkrev

Member
Now that they aren't making the changes, I'm really curious to see the "math" Helene promised that showed how they weren't fucking people over
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Many of you guys have brought up the point that they never should have made Magic pros a thing in the first place, and the new payout system reflects that, but the question is, what incentive is there to actually attend a Pro Tour now? Only a few people will win a decent amount of money (and it's still not much), but to fly out to the various places they are being held and pay for hotels and such, you have to invest a lot of money. My understanding is that in the past, you had a reasonable expectation of coming out even or at least not losing too much, but now you're guaranteed to lose a lot of money unless you reach top rankings.

Should we expect a majority of players at a Pro Tour to be locals now?

EDIT: Well, I guess that doesn't apply now, but I suppose I'll still ask if that's what was going to happen.
The vast majority of the pro tour is RPTQ winners or silver/gold members. There's only like 30 dudes in Plat to begin with.
 

ultron87

Member
I'm glad they aren't fucking people over anymore.

If they want to change it for the 2017-18 season or whatever with tons of warning that is fine.
 

Ashodin

Member
I definitely think this was a thing to put out as quickly as possible so they could walk it back and gain "amenity" from magic fans.

Not on purpose mind you, but that they knew it was coming down from Hasbro, and by putting it out during the Pro Tour it gains the widest visibility as well as allowing WOTC to show Hasbro "hey they fucking care about their fans man".
 

Yeef

Member
Many of you guys have brought up the point that they never should have made Magic pros a thing in the first place, and the new payout system reflects that, but the question is, what incentive is there to actually attend a Pro Tour now? Only a few people will win a decent amount of money (and it's still not much), but to fly out to the various places they are being held and pay for hotels and such, you have to invest a lot of money. My understanding is that in the past, you had a reasonable expectation of coming out even or at least not losing too much, but now you're guaranteed to lose a lot of money unless you reach top rankings.

Should we expect a majority of players at a Pro Tour to be locals now?

EDIT: Well, I guess that doesn't apply now, but I suppose I'll still ask if that's what was going to happen.
My understanding is that in qualifying for the pro tour, Wizards pays your hotel and airfare for the actual event. The issue, as far as I know, is that qualifying for platinum means traveling to grind GPs, which isn't covered by Wizards. The appearance fee helps to retroactively cover that.
 

bigkrev

Member
My understanding is that in qualifying for the pro tour, Wizards pays your hotel and airfare for the actual event. The issue, as far as I know, is that qualifying for platinum means traveling to grind GPs, which isn't covered by Wizards. The appearance fee helps to retroactively cover that.

I believe you only get hotel if you are platinum. They pay for airfare for everyone except HOFers who aren't qualified otherwise
 

Firemind

Member
Many of you guys have brought up the point that they never should have made Magic pros a thing in the first place, and the new payout system reflects that, but the question is, what incentive is there to actually attend a Pro Tour now? Only a few people will win a decent amount of money (and it's still not much), but to fly out to the various places they are being held and pay for hotels and such, you have to invest a lot of money. My understanding is that in the past, you had a reasonable expectation of coming out even or at least not losing too much, but now you're guaranteed to lose a lot of money unless you reach top rankings.

Should we expect a majority of players at a Pro Tour to be locals now?

EDIT: Well, I guess that doesn't apply now, but I suppose I'll still ask if that's what was going to happen.
I mean, you play and enjoy Magic with your pals. It's a social game. Do high school sports teams pay you anything to attend tournaments? No, you go to them because you enjoy it and for some people they want to be playing at a high level.

Personally, I have gone to GPs and PTQs with my buddies in the past as a way to have fun memories, whether it's playing Magic at 7am or lying on the beach in Barcelona or get wasted in a random club. Just a year ago one of my friends asked me if I wanted to go to Beijing to attend a Team Sealed GP. For fun. I couldn't go in the end, but you get my point.
 

Crocodile

Member
The Magic related podcasts should be interesting this week. I'm shocked this ever happened and I'm really curious as to what this means for 2017-2018. For now, good on WOTC for walking this back - at least the fuckery is over for now.
 

Santiako

Member
Good that they backed down on the pro player fuckery (at least for the remaining of this season), the previous change was too fucked up to work out and I'm sure they would have gotten sued by a sizeable number of pros.
 

Firemind

Member
Good that they backed down on the pro player fuckery (at least for the remaining of this season), the previous change was too fucked up to work out and I'm sure they would have gotten sued by a sizeable number of pros.
Which wouldn't have really worked in court since WotC hold the reservation of rights, the right to change or revoke the benefits at any time. The backlash was enough to revoke some of the changes.

In other non-important news, I love Pieces of the Puzzle so damn much. Sometimes you whiff and mill Jace, but sometimes you chain Piece into Piece into Piece, which is so much value, especially with Geistblast and Stitchwing Skaab in the mix. You really only need one Rise of the Tides to make the strategy work (provides it's not the last card in your deck.) Good times.
 
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";201966271]The black control decks are splashing green for card advantage these days.

...[/QUOTE]

insane card advantage might I add, if your removal doesn't say "exile" it might as well be a bounce spell. Duress a Seasons Past, Seasons Past will get a Seasons Past.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Which wouldn't have really worked in court since WotC hold the reservation of rights, the right to change or revoke the benefits at any time. The backlash was enough to revoke some of the changes.

In other non-important news, I love Pieces of the Puzzle so damn much. Sometimes you whiff and mill Jace, but sometimes you chain Piece into Piece into Piece, which is so much value, especially with Geistblast and Stitchwing Skaab in the mix. You really only need one Rise of the Tides to make the strategy work (provides it's not the last card in your deck.) Good times.

I would say its not that easy - its a little nebulous what WOTC reserved the right to change and to whom the changes could apply. In either case the cost of defense and optics weren't worth the ~330K, I imagine.
 

Firemind

Member
Aaaaaand flooded. :lol

Deck doesn't work well when you draw zero Pieces. Or Jace for that matter. Only casted him once in five games. ;-;
 
Always found it weird there aren't more actual pro player events, everything but the PT and world championship (?) is open for anyone.


They used to have this, it was called the Masters series and it's specifically what they got rid of to create the Pro Player Club in the first place.

I definitely think this was a thing to put out as quickly as possible so they could walk it back and gain "amenity" from magic fans.

Not on purpose mind you, but that they knew it was coming down from Hasbro, and by putting it out during the Pro Tour it gains the widest visibility as well as allowing WOTC to show Hasbro "hey they fucking care about their fans man".

I am probably 60% confident that the WotC-level people executed this in part to get an excuse to walk back Hasbro-specified cuts.
 

OnPoint

Member
So glad they dialed back on 90% those PT changes.

Modern PT is still dead though?

Aaaaaand flooded. :lol

Deck doesn't work well when you draw zero Pieces. Or Jace for that matter. Only casted him once in five games. ;-;

Gotta love when you have a limited bomb then proceed to NEVER draw it. Feels bad man.
 

Ashodin

Member
It being aired during the Pro Tour was the biggest red flag for me. Why announce something this heinous during the celebration of the game and release of a new set?

For dat pushback.

It's MUCH easier to convince higherups that your cutbacks are shit when you have ground-level consumer outrage. To say nothing of the Pros that would make the game feel deserted over time.
 

bigkrev

Member
It being aired during the Pro Tour was the biggest red flag for me. Why announce something this heinous during the celebration of the game and release of a new set?

For dat pushback.

It's MUCH easier to convince higherups that your cutbacks are shit when you have ground-level consumer outrage. To say nothing of the Pros that would make the game feel deserted over time.
They thought that announcing a 500k prize pool for worlds was something that people are really going to like
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Modern PT being dead = good thing.

Make worlds Modern central.
The problem with modern as a PT format is that the majority of decks are bullshit.

And I love Modern. There are a lot of bullshit decks though. The problem is that way too many games are dumb nonsense due to the fact that the sideboard isn't big enough to deal with weird decks that attack from a funky angle.
 

ironmang

Member
The problem with modern as a PT format is that the majority of decks are bullshit.

And I love Modern. There are a lot of bullshit decks though. The problem is that way too many games are dumb nonsense due to the fact that the sideboard isn't big enough to deal with weird decks that attack from a funky angle.

It was bad before eldrazi but Modern seems like the lawless wild west right now if you look at tournament results. No rhyme or reason for the 15 decks that all seem to be having the exact same results.
 

kirblar

Member
It was bad before eldrazi but Modern seems like the lawless wild west right now if you look at tournament results. No rhyme or reason for the 15 decks that all seem to be having the exact same results.
This is what the format is supposed to look like. (They're being vindicated for the Twin ban now)
 
They thought that announcing a 500k prize pool for worlds was something that people are really going to like

They thought this was something that would make more people interested in playing, which is very much not the same thing.

Which is why I want a continued (though maybe not frequent) spotlight on it. Bring it into the open. Let it shine. Let it breathe.

They really just need a way to showcase high-level Modern that doesn't have the level of focus and attention of a full PT. I think probably the way to handle that is to have an open event on a regular schedule -- like a once-a-month schedule for Modern GPs instead of just 3-4 times a year.
 

ironmang

Member
This is what the format is supposed to look like. (They're being vindicated for the Twin ban now)

I actually prefer there to be ~5 decks that each are 10% of the field so sideboarding is more meaningful.

Been thinking about putting together a chord deck since being able to just put a ton of different 1 ofs in the sideboard and having 5 ways to grab them is really appealing when I can expect every opponent in a 9 rounder to be playing a different deck.
 
Got to playtest a bunch of standard today. BG control with 2 World Breakers slotted in the main is a much better experience than otherwise. Faster closing and game against enchantments and artifacts is important.

I also got to play in my 4th ever modern event. Borrowed a Jeskai Geist deck, which was super fun. Still planning on putting together Abzan Company or KiKi Chord, though. Finally got my first Voice of Resurgence. Traded for it and a regular Avacyn and all it cost me was a foil Avacyn. Phew.
 

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Neat. It's obviously still going to happen for the next season, but at least the people on the grind aren't completely fucked. Now, if they try to make a big stink about it when they've been given full warning, I'll be on team #GetARealJobHosers
 
Ah fuck, I lost track of MtG and now I have a ton of cards from KtK worth no credits on MtGO. Shit, haha.

Give me the cliff's on new SoI Standard, gaf. Is Allies/Equipment still fun?
 
Just decked my opponent with 3 cards left in my library in a BG mirror match.

Holy shit that game was a grind. I brought back all 4 deathmist raptors 3 times.

Super happy I didn't jump the gun and build this version instead of the Eldrazi one.
 

Santiako

Member
Modern isn't completely overrun by combo decks now that Twin is gone? But I thought it was the only thing holding them at bay.



Worse than the Bant mirror?

In Season's Past mirror decking is a viable win condition. Bant Mirrors are just creature clusterfucks (that are also a nightmare).
 

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Proxy Guy is saying somebody confirmed to him that Kaladash is the next plane. Salt grain and all, but hey, wild speculation is fun.
 
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