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[Infinite Stars]

Twoo's whole "Honoured Hierarch is new Delver" was hilarious. I mean, I like the card more then most, but even then the card is nowhere near delver level. It dies to a Fiery Impulse ffs.

Also, his defense of Milo is hilarious and just cements his fall. All of the defense of his Hitler comment flies out the moment he defends Milo.

SaffronOlive now fills the "quirky deckbuilder that's fun to listen to" role, except Saffron doesn't get annoyingly repetitive and isn't (so far) actually insane.

SaffronOlive is hilarious in his brews. The guy also doesn't mince his words if a deck is mediocre.

 

[A Serious Man]

I saw that video Woo posted recently where he explained the CFB/ETB situation (basically he was a moron and got fired) and it just made me sad. The dude is clearly lost.

And yeah, SaffronOlive is great and mtggoldfish produces a lot of the best content these days. I read and appreciate high level Magic theory and tournament reports just as much as the next guy but sometimes I just want to watch 100 squirrel tokens stonewall a Blightsteel and then swing for lethal.

 

[red13th]

is the Squirrel deck fun to watch, didn't look like it so I didn't bother but that sounds pretty cool.

 

[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";203464920]Now that I think of it, Marshall is my street fighter skill equivalent in MTG. He always seems to know what he's talking about, but then makes decisions in direct opposition to his own advice. My group always makes fun of me for how bad I am at SF4 compared to how well I understand the game. Total commentator status. I'm kind of ok at SFV, though.



Man, I know so many people like that. One dude got an AA degree before graduating high school and the next thing I know he gets kicked out of his apartment for drug abuse.[/QUOTE]
SFV is that game where I think I'm hot shit because I fucked people up at Alpha 2 in the arcades when they would put their quarters on the screen and then I played online in V and got absolutely fucken wrecked.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

is the Squirrel deck fun to watch, didn't look like it so I didn't bother but that sounds pretty cool.

I personally didn't like it very much it's just too janky and slow for legacy. Normally even his weird brews have a decent chance to win.

 

[Kerrinck]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";203433984]I've played against that second one a lot, and I think it's pretty bad.[/QUOTE]

Thanks! Tried it for a bit on a league and came to the same unfortunate conclusion.
Ended up deciding on this one instead. http://www.mtgo-stats.com/decks/37372

 

[Jhriad]

Yeah, that's a good point. I'll have to check for what the price ends up being before driving up from Cincy. I have a free place to stay so it wouldn't be the biggest investment to drive up, but since I'm not playing in the main event it'd be dumb to drive up for badly priced sides.

Given the 20 dollar SOI drafts they have listed I probably shouldn't have hopes particularly high.

The fact that they are going to be running the only 2016 GP in Texas that I was interested in makes me sad.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Latest Developments confirmed that skulk was intended to be an evergreen keyword, but they've found that it doesn't have much design space, it's a bit hard to process ("OK, it has an aura, so what creatures can block it now?"), and it wasn't as much of a slam dunk as prowess. It seems like they're going to wait until they bring it back again before determining whether it can work as an evergreen keyword. Also:
* Blue is weak in Standard due to Jace. It will go back to having the best card draw spells soon. It's kind of a shame, I was hoping this would be another waxing and waning thing.
* There wasn't any prowess in Battle for Zendikar because it didn't become evergreen until late in design, and development saw no need to add it. The level in SOI is what we'll typically see going forward.
* White removal turned out a bit stronger than they'd like, but they're happy that Declaration in Stone's drawback has been real.
* Madness is being played less than expected, but they're still happy with where it is.
* His answer to a question about enemy fast lands (Scars of Mirrodin) implies that they like having incomplete land cycles around, presumably to build excitement when they're completed later.
* Anguished Unmaking originally made you lose life equal to the converted mana cost of the thing exiled, with the idea that you'd lose a lot of life exiling good side Avacyn, but no life exiling the evil side, but this changed after the converted mana cost rule change to double-faced card back sides.

EDIT: New survey.

 

[Santiako]

* Madness is being played less than expected, but they're still happy with where it is.

I don't know what they expected with madness, almost all of the cards are just unplayable in constructed, last time we had 1 mana counterspells, 0 mana 1/1 that could pump and 4/4 tramplers for 3, together with the good old mongrel, this time we have fiery temper, subpar discard outlets and most of the cards don't even have their costs reduced with madness.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I don't know what they expected with madness, almost all of the cards are just unplayable in constructed, last time we had 1 mana counterspells, 0 mana 1/1 that could pump and 4/4 tramplers for 3, together with the good old mongrel, this time we have fiery temper, subpar discard outlets and most of the cards don't even have their costs reduced with madness.

They literally needed to print Dark Confidant as a straight-up reprint. It would be a Tier 1 deck, but I legit don't think it would be broken.

The problem is that lots of people would put Dark Confidant in lots of things and its kind of a busted card.

Latest Developments confirmed that skulk was intended to be an evergreen keyword, but they've found that it doesn't have much design space, it's a bit hard to process ("OK, it has an aura, so what creatures can block it now?"), and it wasn't as much of a slam dunk as prowess. It seems like they're going to wait until they bring it back again before determining whether it can work as an evergreen keyword. Also:
* Blue is weak in Standard due to Jace. It will go back to having the best card draw spells soon. It's kind of a shame, I was hoping this would be another waxing and waning thing.
* There wasn't any prowess in Battle for Zendikar because it didn't become evergreen until late in design, and development saw no need to add it. The level in SOI is what we'll typically see going forward.
* White removal turned out a bit stronger than they'd like, but they're happy that Declaration in Stone's drawback has been real.
* Madness is being played less than expected, but they're still happy with where it is.
* His answer to a question about enemy fast lands (Scars of Mirrodin) implies that they like having incomplete land cycles around, presumably to build excitement when they're completed later.
* Anguished Unmaking originally made you lose life equal to the converted mana cost of the thing exiled, with the idea that you'd lose a lot of life exiling good side Avacyn, but no life exiling the evil side, but this changed after the converted mana cost rule change to double-faced card back sides.

EDIT: New survey.

The incomplete cycles thing is fucking bullshit because it doesn't actually add something to the game other than randomly fucking players in Modern because lol Scarslands don't have enemy versions.

 

[Ashodin]

Yeah Madness this time around sucks compared to Odyssey block. It was way more supported then. It feels more like an afterthought than a forefront mechanic of the set.

Hopefully Eldritch Moon will fix that.

 

[El Topo]

http://www.facebook.com/riptideprolab
http://www.twitter.com/riptideprolab (Got some stuff here, just amusing things that happen day to day at the Lab)
https://goo.gl/Oiuvfs (YouTube)

That's an interesting concept Ashodin. Best of luck.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Yeah Madness this time around sucks compared to Odyssey block. It was way more supported then. It feels more like an afterthought than a forefront mechanic of the set.

Hopefully Eldritch Moon will fix that.

The problem is that the enablers are bad and the payoffs are mediocre. You basically need something like Faithless Looting to be legal for Madness to be something you'd want to play.

Also, his answer about blue card draw kinda sucks. Unrestricted blue card draw mostly leads to horseshit draw-go decks. At least that's how I always see it.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Also, glad to see Sam (e.g. someone other than me) recognizes that Skulk is a boring fucking mechanic that has no real reason to go Evergreen.

It's certainly not banding-tier, but its not very interesting. It's like a lame version of unblockable (which is rarely overpowered anyways because they don't put unblockable on OP things THAT often, Invisible Stalker notwithstanding).

 

[Joe Molotov]

Even in draft, I haven't been able to get Madness to do much. A unblocked Bloodmad Vampire on T3 is the best you can hope for.

 

[Firemind]

Bloodmad Vampire is fantastic in U/R tempo since blue has a lot of tappers and it can trade with a lot of green fatties. Doesn't even require Madness outlets though having Lightning Axes is always sweet.

 

[Ashodin]

The problem is that the enablers are bad and the payoffs are mediocre. You basically need something like Faithless Looting to be legal for Madness to be something you'd want to play.

Also, his answer about blue card draw kinda sucks. Unrestricted blue card draw mostly leads to horseshit draw-go decks. At least that's how I always see it.

Blue's card draw is what made it the worst color ever

That's an interesting concept Ashodin. Best of luck.

Hey thanks! I've been working hard for this setup.

 

[Angry Grimace]

This deck looks like it will be goddamn hilarious. It took 2 turns of goldfishing to confirm that Dread Return being banned is legit as hell.

 

[kirblar]

Got a list? (So I can buy up anything I don't already have?)

 

[Angry Grimace]

It's pretty hilarious, but I have my doubts its particularly great. I'm guessing Dredgevine feat. Prized Amalgam is better.



Lands

1 Blood Crypt
1 Bloodstained Mire
4 Copperline Gorge
3 Dakmor Salvage
3 Mountain
2 Stomping Ground
4 Wooded Foothills

Spells

4 Bridge from Below
4 Burning Inquiry
1 Conflagrate
4 Faithless Looting
1 Rally the Peasants

Creatures

4 Bloodghast
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Greater Gargadon
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Narcomoeba
4 Prized Amalgam
4 Stinkweed Imp

Sideboard

SB: 3 Darkblast
SB: 3 Ancient Grudge
SB: 4 Nature's Claim
SB: 3 Lightning Axe
SB: 2 Gnaw to the Bone

 

[divisionbyzorro]

I've played some with and against variations of that deck. Insolent Neonate is legit. I feel really bad for actively shitting on that card when it was first spoiled.

EDIT: Also, Narcomoeba triggering Prized Amalgam just feels wrong.

 

[charlequin]

* His answer to a question about enemy fast lands (Scars of Mirrodin) implies that they like having incomplete land cycles around, presumably to build excitement when they're completed later.

The reason you do this is as follows, as I read it:

• You need to have one or two dual-land cycles in every block from now until the end of time.
• Quality of dual land cycles varies immensely, and it can be hard to see how one will work out until people actually get to use them in play.
• Because that quality varies, it's easy for dual land cycles to get pulled late in the process after testing suggests they're a problem.
• If you wait a few years after printing new lands the first time, you can get a good sense of whether they're popular enough that people would be happy at their return (and whether they're safe to bring back.)
• There's a limited number of cycles that would actively make people happy when reprinted, so they have to be careful with that equity.
• Therefore, if you have a bunch of unfinished cycles, you can keep a bunch of drop-in options open to fill the needs of any given set without a lot of extra playtesting or design iteration.

 

[Infinite Stars]

The reason you do this is as follows, as I read it:

• If you wait a few years after printing new lands the first time, you can get a good sense of whether they're popular enough that people would be happy at their return (and whether they're safe to bring back.)
• There's a limited number of cycles that would actively make people happy when reprinted, so they have to be careful with that equity.

Like for instance, I don't think we're going to be seeing enemy colored Hand Lands, if only because they're the only rare cycle in recent memory to get horribly worse as the game goes on. (Shocks, being shocks, are okay at all points).

Temples, Santa Lands,Fetches,Shocks,Buddies, Pains,and Manlands all get better or stay the same as the game goes on. Arguably, Fast lands get worse the longer the game goes, but at least they don't punish for not having land in hand in the late game.

 

[kirblar]

Dual Cycle I need to write down before I forget it:

UW Kirbland

Plains Island
If you control two or fewer basic land types as UW Kirbland ETBs, it ETBs untapped. Otherwise, it ETBs tapped.

Solves a lot of problems with 3c+ bases being enabled too well.

 

[shrapnelmagnet]

Arguably, Fast lands get worse the longer the game goes, but at least they don't punish for not having land in hand in the late game.

But only if you assume a format where you lands are being actively attacked or a deck that uses some sort of sac land, no? I would think in most standard formats, the Fastlands are the worse land in a late game scenario?

Haven't fully thought it through, admittedly.

EDIT: I really like the Tainted Lands but kinda wish they had a single Land Type so they could be searched. They give you Generic mana, at least, so they're not "slow", but need some work to enable their colours. Would like to see another round of them for Plains or something, even with no typing.

I think Checklands are probably a better design, but the Tainted ones are Uncommon, so they get a bonus grade from me

 

[kirblar]

But only if you assume a format where you lands are being actively attacked or a deck that uses some sort of sac land, no? I would think in most standard formats, the Fastlands are the worse land in a late game scenario?

Haven't fully thought it through, admittedly.

They're so good early that the tradeoff is worth it.

Fastlands not being in Modern is actually an issue w/ deckbuilding.

They need to do more cycles starting with the Enemy half first going forward to keep Modern balanced out more.

 

[Infinite Stars]

Fastlands don't show up in Modern because it's a format with 10 Fetches+10 Shocks. 80% of decks have those as their first 3 land drops. (That 20% Being Affinity, Tribal decks like Elves or Merfolk, or stuff like fetchless Ad Naseum/Tron).I remember reading that if you take cards and sort them, the Fetches+Shocks are some of the only lands in the top 25.

I'm going to guess that since Kaladesh is likely next, we're going to get enemy fast lands there. Considering they came from SoM(an artifact centric plane), having the enemy half in another artifact centric plane would work.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Fastlands don't show up in Modern because it's a format with 10 Fetches+10 Shocks. 80% of decks have those as their first 3 land drops. (That 20% Being Affinity, Tribal decks like Elves or Merfolk, or stuff like fetchless Ad Naseum/Tron).I remember reading that if you take cards and sort them, the Fetches+Shocks are some of the only lands in the top 25.

I'm going to guess that since Kaladesh is likely next, we're going to get enemy fast lands there. Considering they came from SoM(an artifact centric plane), having the enemy half in another artifact centric plane would work.

Fastlands do show in Modern all of the time.

They're like the third most played duals after shocks and fetches. The reason why Jund is more popular than Abzan is seriously at least partially because Blackcleave Cliffs is a real card and a G/B Fastland doesn't exist and the deck leans heavily on playing Thoughtseize/Inquisition as its first play, but starting the game at 15 to do that sucks.

 

[kirblar]

...fastlands do show up in modern.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Back when Seething Song was legal and Storm wasn't a giant trap, I would have killed for a UR fastland.

 

[A Serious Man]

So the MOC is going great. Three people dropped out so there are only 13 people there and the stream was constantly lagging and thus the battlefield, player's hands and commentary were all out of sync. LSV and Marshall tried to salvage it but it's just too sad. I'm not sure why I even bothered when there is a Modern Open happening on the same weekend.

 

[ThLunarian]

Dual Cycle I need to write down before I forget it:

UW Kirbland

Plains Island
If you control two or fewer basic land types as UW Kirbland ETBs, it ETBs untapped. Otherwise, it ETBs tapped.

Solves a lot of problems with 3c+ bases being enabled too well.

This is just a straight up dual that enters untapped and deals no damage. That hasn't existed since the original duals. Seems too good.

Also, the Plains Island one still comes in untapped even if you control the Forest Mountain one when you play it. I think the drawback would be a minimal hindrance to playing 3+ colors, especially in the early turns.

 

[Yeef]

Dual Cycle I need to write down before I forget it:

UW Kirbland

Plains Island
If you control two or fewer basic land types as UW Kirbland ETBs, it ETBs untapped. Otherwise, it ETBs tapped.

Solves a lot of problems with 3c+ bases being enabled too well.

I don't think this actually works the way you'd expect. When a replacement effect modifies the way a permanent enters the battlefield, it checks to see what the game state will look like once it's actually on the battlefield. So in this case, if you play a Plains-Island Kirbland when you already have an Island and a Swamp in play, the Kirbland would come in tapped.

614.12. Some replacement effects modify how a permanent enters the battlefield. (See rules 614.1c–d.) Such effects may come from the permanent itself if they affect only that permanent (as opposed to a general subset of permanents that includes it). They may also come from other sources. To determine which replacement effects apply and how they apply, check the characteristics of the permanent as it would exist on the battlefield, taking into account replacement effects that have already modified how it enters the battlefield (see rule 616.1), continuous effects generated by the resolution of spells or abilities that changed the permanent’s characteristics on the stack (see rule 400.7a), and continuous effects from the permanent’s own static abilities, but ignoring continuous effects from any other source that would affect it.

 

[noquarter]

Also, glad to see Sam (e.g. someone other than me) recognizes that Skulk is a boring fucking mechanic that has no real reason to go Evergreen.

It's certainly not banding-tier, but its not very interesting. It's like a lame version of unblockable (which is rarely overpowered anyways because they don't put unblockable on OP things THAT often, Invisible Stalker notwithstanding).

Skulk is a shitty mechanic. I always want to reread it, having power be thing just seems weird. Feel like it should be power more than toughness can't block.

I did try to mess with banding back in the day, seemed like it should be decent but it was way to confusing.

-List-

Thanks, I might sleeve this up and give it a shot, pretty sure I've got all the cards sitting around (started to foil out my Legacy Dredge deckso have the non foils still)

 

[Yeef]

I think Skulk is mostly fine for smaller guys as an evergreen keyword, but doesn't scale well to larger creatures. I do like that it shows up in green's enemy colors, since green gets "can't be blocked by creatures with less power" occasionally.

I think a more scalable keyword for blue-black would be something like "this creature can't be blocked as long as its attacking alone."

 

[Angry Grimace]

I think Skulk is mostly fine for smaller guys as an evergreen keyword, but doesn't scale well to larger creatures. I do like that it shows up in green's enemy colors, since green gets "can't be blocked by creatures with less power" occasionally.

I think a more scalable keyword for blue-black would be something like "this creature can't be blocked as long as its attacking alone."

I think it's as simple as the fact it doesn't do that much because it's only useful on little dudes.

 

[Yeef]

I think it's as simple as the fact it doesn't do that much because it's only useful on little dudes.

You kind of want it for creatures with saboteur effects, but they didn't put many in this set. Just Univited Geist, Skeleton Key and Startled Awake. Odds are, they don't want to overload sets with those sorts of effects though, because they're tricky to develop. I think skulk can be a lot more interesting when you combine it with other colors. You can do things like have a GU guy with skulk and the Slith ability. Or a BR skulker with an attack trigger along the lines of Boros Elite or Hardened Berserker.

When you just stick to black and blue, you have the same problem that cipher had; there's not many effects in those colors that you want to make super-repeatable. You're also limited to effects that only matter after combat.

 

[Infinite Stars]

Had this card pop up in my mind today as an creature/equipment idea for Kaladesh possibly due to the level of pun being right up MTG's Alley

Ram Batterer 2

Artifact Creature-Goat

Reforge(When this creature dies, you may pay 1R. If you do, attach it to target creature. When that creature leaves play, Exile ~)

Ram Batterer can't block or equipped creature can't block.

Equipped creature gets +2/+1

2/1

"To the Artificers of Kaladesh, Inspiration can be found in nature"


I know it's super clunky, but I think it's a unique idea for a mechanic.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Had this card pop up in my mind today as an creature/equipment idea for Kaladesh possibly due to the level of pun being right up MTG's Alley

Ram Batterer 2

Artifact Creature-Goat

Reforge(When this creature dies, you may pay 1R. If you do, attach it to target creature. When that creature leaves play, Exile ~)

Ram Batterer can't block or equipped creature can't block.

Equipped creature gets +2/+1

2/1

"To the Artificers of Kaladesh, Inspiration can be found in nature"


I know it's super clunky, but I think it's a unique idea for a mechanic.

It's inverse bestow

 

[Angry Grimace]

You kind of want it for creatures with saboteur effects, but they didn't put many in this set. Just Univited Geist, Skeleton Key and Startled Awake. Odds are, they don't want to overload sets with those sorts of effects though, because they're tricky to develop. I think skulk can be a lot more interesting when you combine it with other colors. You can do things like have a GU guy with skulk and the Slith ability. Or a BR skulker with an attack trigger along the lines of Boros Elite or Hardened Berserker.

When you just stick to black and blue, you have the same problem that cipher had; there's not many effects in those colors that you want to make super-repeatable. You're also limited to effects that only matter after combat.

I simply don't think it's an interesting evergreen effect. You can just write the ability out on the rare creature where it does anything interesting.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Red and blue are the colors that most like spells being cast, so prowess was a good fit.
But what do blue and black like? Getting stuff in the graveyard?

Maybe something along the lines of, "when an effect you control puts one or more cards into an opponent's graveyard, do X", which covers milling, countering, discarding, and destruction. Though that seems a bit wonky. Maybe just caring in general about putting cards in the graveyard, even if that also includes spells? Having it also be a power boost seems too similar to prowess. Maybe making it unblockable?

Unassuming Bystander - 2B
Creature - Human Rogue
Distract (This creature can't be blocked by players that put one or more cards in their graveyard this turn.)
2/3

 

[Infinite Stars]

It's inverse bestow

That's the point, really. Inverse Bestow with a Battering Ram(which is already a terrible card from earlier days of Magic).

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Red and blue are the colors that most like spells being cast, so prowess was a good fit.
But what do blue and black like? Getting stuff in the graveyard?

Maybe something along the lines of, "when an effect you control puts one or more cards into an opponent's graveyard, do X", which covers milling, countering, discarding, and destruction. Though that seems a bit wonky. Maybe just caring in general about putting cards in the graveyard, even if that also includes spells? Having it also be a power boost seems too similar to prowess. Maybe making it unblockable?

Unassuming Bystander - 2B
Creature - Human Rogue
Distract (This creature can't be blocked by players that put one or more cards in their graveyard this turn.)
2/3

but black and blue already care most about combat damage going through so that should be reward enough, having an evergreen creature mechanic tied to milling would be very weird considering the usually scarce support of it.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Kaladesh is about assembling contraptions.

I honestly don't think its all that difficult to figure out a meaning for the word "assemble." They managed to make Investigate work and be interesting.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Kaladesh is about assembling contraptions.

I honestly don't think its all that difficult to figure out a meaning for the word "assemble." They managed to make Investigate work and be interesting.

assemble could be as simple as put a 1/1 thopter creature token into play. Origins had a couple of those effects and keywording it wouldn't be weird.

Hearthstone made an interesting card recently that let you do both on modal cards instead would be interesting to have in a commander product. Something along the lines of "whenever a spell or ability makes you choose between 2 or more modes you can choose all of them instead". Should still work properly with confluences like that.

 

[OnPoint]

assemble could be as simple as put a 1/1 thopter creature token into play. Origins had a couple of those effects and keywording it wouldn't be weird.

Hearthstone made an interesting card recently that let you do both on modal cards instead would be interesting to have in a commander product. Something along the lines of "whenever a spell or ability makes you choose between 2 or more modes you can choose all of them instead". Should still work properly with confluences like that.

The trick with "assembling contraptions" is this:

Maro has vowed he'll solve it.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

The trick with "assembling contraptions" is this:

Maro has vowed he'll solve it.

Future Sight was a dumb set but it was exciting to see futureshifted cards show up over the next couple years. Does Kaladesh even have goblins? Looked like a humans only set.

 

[kirblar]

I don't think this actually works the way you'd expect. When a replacement effect modifies the way a permanent enters the battlefield, it checks to see what the game state will look like once it's actually on the battlefield. So in this case, if you play a Plains-Island Kirbland when you already have an Island and a Swamp in play, the Kirbland would come in tapped.

This is precisely the intention.

This is just a straight up dual that enters untapped and deals no damage. That hasn't existed since the original duals. Seems too good.

Also, the Plains Island one still comes in untapped even if you control the Forest Mountain one when you play it. I think the drawback would be a minimal hindrance to playing 3+ colors, especially in the early turns.

Only in a straight up 2 color deck. There's a deckbuilding cost built into it.

 

[OnPoint]

Future Sight was a dumb set but it was exciting to see futureshifted cards show up over the next couple years. Does Kaladesh even have goblins? Looked like a humans only set.

To be fair we don't know much about Kaladesh outside of what they've shown us in Origins, I think. At least I don't. Someone here might know more than me. There definitely could be goblins (I was hoping for the triumphant return of dwarves in RW myself).

 

[Angry Grimace]

We also don't know that they're going to Kaladesh.