Support NeoGAF

[Firemind]

oh my god i got paired in the final to the guy who has the two tenebs

i'm making so many mistakes

like i thought dark withering could kill teneb

but i still won because jaya is fucking broken like you wouldn't believe

i should knock off the bourbon

 

[SigmasonicX]

I don't really see how it's offensive. It's one of the big things people think of when they think of Indian Culture/Society, and I'd rather have Wizards give us a risky thing and fail then to completely ignore that aspect.

Plus, Wizards has a bunch of supporting Southern Asian /Indian individuals helping out with the set, so I'm more inclined to believe it would be handled with care.

Indian here, and I have zero interest in Wizards going, "Hey look! Wow! You can pay W to summon a soldier! But wait, he's part of a caste, so it's new and different!" or them going "You can pay B to summon part of the untouchable caste. But wait, he doesn't want to be in that caste, so he's rebelling!"

I'm fine with it being part of the flavor, but giving it mechanical significance by assigning specific colors to castes just feels really dumb.

EDIT:

Just noticed, on that woman... monkeys confirmed!

 

[Yeef]

Just noticed, on that woman... monkeys confirmed!

It's a metaphor. The who "Inventor's Fair" is really just an intervention.

 

[Joe Molotov]

If magic is real, why we still got monkeys?

 

[charlequin]

They used to do this.

Back in the day the only way I knew what cards even existed was to buy the Encyclopedia.

I don't want to oversell how much ignorance there actually was in this period. When Magic started out there was a lot of uncertainty about what cards existed (which led to plenty of rumors and legends arising from this fact, like the infamous Throat Wolf), but the period of total mystery was pretty short. The last set that wasn't spoiled completely before release was Fallen Empires (from Ice Age on people compiled lists at the prerelease) and by 1997 within a month after a set there was a new issue of InQuest with a full text spoiler. Invested players with access to the internet still knew what cards did.

The real huge difference was in the gap between invested and newer/more casual players. At that point, you were dependent on those resources -- a magazine or a printed-off spoiler/price list -- for relevant information, and if you didn't have one (or were too new to know you needed one) it was easy for you to get taken advantage of.

I don't really see how it's offensive.

Mostly because it's a cliche setting element that's over-represented in fiction by people from outside the region and which is almost always done very poorly.

Which is not to say it couldn't be done well (and clearly there's a plot element of class warfare or revolt against the nobility, so the theme is present to some degree), just that the obvious execution is terrible and bad.

 

[Infinite Stars]

Mostly because it's a cliche setting element that's over-represented in fiction by people from outside the region and which is almost always done very poorly.

Which is not to say it couldn't be done well (and clearly there's a plot element of class warfare or revolt against the nobility, so the theme is present to some degree), just that the obvious execution is terrible and bad.

That's my main point, though. The announcement definitely has several creative consultants listed, so I'm inclined to believe they'd definitely approach this with nuance.

I mean, while Wizards can be dense, they've definitely shown care in the depiction of certain issues. Ashiok is a well handled character, MaRo has stated that Karn is also agender on Blogatog recently. Alesha's story is the most read one written minus Narset's, and Narset's had a boost of Planeswalker Spoiler. Both of those depicted non typical individuals(Alesha is a transgender female and Narset 2.0 very clearly feels Autistic/Aspergers/Non-Neurotypical). And While Khans had some really uninspired tropes(Kung Fu Monks and the Barbarian Horde), it also handled some the inspiration of the Sultai/Abzan insanely well.

I mean, I might be wrong on this, but I think Wizards can definitely make a nuanced set/story with the caste system, and I think the announcement shows it.

 

["God's Beard!"]

 

[charlequin]

That's my main point, though. The announcement definitely has several creative consultants listed, so I'm inclined to believe they'd definitely approach this with nuance.

I mean, I think they are doing it with nuance by having a story that features an element of class conflict. My point was more that I don't think it could possibly be done well in a heavyhanded mechanic/tribal way where there are mechanically relevant castes that have different mechanical effects, etc. That's what I meant by the obvious execution.

 

[pelicansurf]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";203869032]

[/QUOTE]
I wish this was real. Attach a gryff's boon and you did it.

 

[Infinite Stars]

I mean, I think they are doing it with nuance by having a story that features an element of class conflict. My point was more that I don't think it could possibly be done well in a heavyhanded mechanic/tribal way where there are mechanically relevant castes that have different mechanical effects, etc. That's what I meant by the obvious execution.

I totally get that. I mean, it's going to focus on Artifacts hard, so I don't see why they'd go keyword tribal here. I do see different colours having different ways they interact with Artifacts, like Metalcraft or something, which could be seen as primarily URW because Artifacts and Artificers.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Well, there it is

obazervazi asked: Is Kaladesh/The Awesome Set the one where you solved a longstanding design issue?

Yep.

And article on improving tournament coverage, though not as inexpensively as the title claims.

 

[charlequin]

I went back to look at what Rosewater's said about Kaladesh previously, btw, and there's mostly two things: one, he's been specifically citing this as an unusually good set (i.e. Ravnica and Innistrad tier) for over a year; and two, that it's the set where he solved a "long-time design challenge," which I'm now 99.9% sure is the "E" mechanic cut from Mirrodin. We know that this mechanic needed a letter to represent it, which means it must not be a keyword -- it's gotta be something like a new symbol or card frame that has to be represented symbolically on playtest cards. Without more info I've never had much luck thinking of what it could be though!

EDIT: The other "clues" about this issue suggest that it's the thing he's been working on for 14ish years; it's not contraptions.

I totally get that. I mean, it's going to focus on Artifacts hard, so I don't see why they'd go keyword tribal here. I do see different colours having different ways they interact with Artifacts, like Metalcraft or something, which could be seen as primarily URW because Artifacts and Artificers.

I'm really just honestly super curious what an artifact setting that isn't Mirrodin looks like. With Innistrad we finally answered that question about graveyard sets and Odyssey, and I think the result was pretty interesting; I'm hoping this one is similarly interesting and different.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Ben Stark has a draft video on CFB and it's as great as you'd expect from one of the best limited players.

 

[Attleborotaco]

Been trying to make a clue deck work since they were first revealed.

Started as U/G, then was Bant colored for a while. Finally in its last iteration, is Temur Colored, splashing only for Ghirapur Aether grid.

Played it Friday night at my weekly Kitchen Table get together, did pretty well. It gets really fun when you have like 16 Clues and some thopters and can just ping for so much damage every turn.

 

[SigmasonicX]

That looks like a pretty fun deck, and +2 points for the moles.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Been trying to make a clue deck work since they were first revealed.

Started as U/G, then was Bant colored for a while. Finally in its last iteration, is Temur Colored, splashing only for Ghirapur Aether grid.

Played it Friday night at my weekly Kitchen Table get together, did pretty well. It gets really fun when you have like 16 Clues and some thopters and can just ping for so much damage every turn.

Are the graf moles and the ongoing investigations necessary, wouldn't Ulvenwald mysteries give you the option to go wide instead and double the use for second harvest?

Ghirapur aether grid is one of the best cards in recent years, really hope it gets reprinted in Kaladesh.

 

[Attleborotaco]

Are the graf moles and the ongoing investigations necessary, wouldn't Ulvenwald mysteries give you the option to go wide instead and double the use for second harvest?

Ghirapur aether grid is one of the best cards in recent years, really hope it gets reprinted in Kaladesh.

Ongoing investigations is really good in the deck. The graf moles are mostly there to get you some life, but youre not really using the clue tokens tobe sacked, just to tap them for more damage.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Ongoing investigations is really good in the deck. The graf moles are mostly there to get you some life, but youre not really using the clue tokens tobe sacked, just to tap them for more damage.

isn't ongoing investigations just 1 clue per turn, times the amount of Erdwall Illuminators.

 

[Crocodile]

A) We knew it was coming but it was good to have confirmation - first impressions of Kaladesh are super positive. New PW looks like a cool gal too. Time for me to bring my Artifact Cube out of retirement <3

B) I have some proto casual PW theme decks lying around. This upcoming product might be a good chance to polish them up and finish them. Well my Chandra one is already kind of finished but I'm sure there are cool cards it could use.

C) 4-Color Commanders? Snooze-fest though I know there has been a lot of demand. Hope the decks are still worth buying anyway.

I'm really just honestly super curious what an artifact setting that isn't Mirrodin looks like. With Innistrad we finally answered that question about graveyard sets and Odyssey, and I think the result was pretty interesting; I'm hoping this one is similarly interesting and different.

Do you hate Shards of Alara so much that you struck it from your memory?

 

[charlequin]

Do you hate Shards of Alara so much that you struck it from your memory?

Esper isn't an artifact block, it's just some dumb garbage.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Esper isn't an artifact block, it's just some dumb garbage.

Esper was awesome. So many fun artifacts and Tezzeret.

 

[The Technomancer]

4 Color Commanders are a box check basically, I just want them to get them out of the way. Maybe I'll build some WUBG deck or something

 

[Angry Grimace]

I don't want to oversell how much ignorance there actually was in this period. When Magic started out there was a lot of uncertainty about what cards existed (which led to plenty of rumors and legends arising from this fact, like the infamous Throat Wolf), but the period of total mystery was pretty short. The last set that wasn't spoiled completely before release was Fallen Empires (from Ice Age on people compiled lists at the prerelease) and by 1997 within a month after a set there was a new issue of InQuest with a full text spoiler. Invested players with access to the internet still knew what cards did.

The real huge difference was in the gap between invested and newer/more casual players. At that point, you were dependent on those resources -- a magazine or a printed-off spoiler/price list -- for relevant information, and if you didn't have one (or were too new to know you needed one) it was easy for you to get taken advantage of.



Mostly because it's a cliche setting element that's over-represented in fiction by people from outside the region and which is almost always done very poorly.

Which is not to say it couldn't be done well (and clearly there's a plot element of class warfare or revolt against the nobility, so the theme is present to some degree), just that the obvious execution is terrible and bad.

I quit buying cards when Ice Age came out. One of my friends loved that set but I fucken hated how weak the set was because it felt like putting any of the cards in would make my deck shittier.

I cannot emphasize enough how fucken dumb Snow Covered Land was to me. It didn't do anything. Mostly it just hurt you.

Also if "prerelease" existed around Ice Age I didn't know about it.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Also if WOTC needs crappy versions of Chandra for an Intro Deck they have plenty of those already. Just reprint one at random.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

why are they getting rid of Æ?

 

[A Serious Man]

why are they getting rid of Æ?

Probably because Aether is going to be in the name of a set and the ligature makes it a pain in the ass to google. The confusion isn't worth the (debatable) style points.

 

[Maledict]

In terms of lore, I had assumed the set would have castes - but it would be machines and artefacts as the lower castes, not humans or any other species. The first set will set up this amazing world but make it clear it's built on the aether machines, and then the second set would be about the machine revolt. You won't see human soldier castes or anything like that.

 

[WanderingWind]

And who is leading the robits revolt? The Karnfather, natch.

 

[Santiako]

And who is leading the robits revolt? The Karnfather, natch.

What if the source of the magic from the plane is Karn and they have him strapped somewhere draining him? Then Chandra finds him, frees him and they lead the Aether Revolt.

Or they are using all the magic to keep Karn trapped, then Chandra finds him, frees him and magic comes back to the plane, thus starting the Aether Revolt against the old system.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

And who is leading the robits revolt? The Karnfather, natch.

Who btw has already seen a price spike.

What if the source of the magic from the plane is Karn and they have him strapped somewhere draining him? Then Chandra finds him, frees him and they lead the Aether Revolt.

Or they are using all the magic to keep Karn trapped, then Chandra finds him, frees him and magic comes back to the plane, thus starting the Aether Revolt against the old system.

will she have to teleport her heart into him first?

 

[WanderingWind]

And Jace figures out to unhook him, but ponders (teehee) if that's the right thing to do.

 

[GoutPatrol]

Esper isn't an artifact block, it's just some dumb garbage.

Best basics in Magic history.

They are what I use for basic in my Modern decks.

 

[Santiako]

Best basics in Magic history.

They are what I use for basic in my Modern decks.

I'm partial to Kamigawa mountains:

 

[RepairmanJack]

So I went and bought a toolkit messed around with the cards a bit and then started playing through the compaign on Magic Duels to get familiar with the game. The only big question I have that I feel is just sort of brushed over in the tutorial is the whole idea of physically tapping mana to add to your mana pool. In the tutorial it did it in the case of having a Planeswalker that could untap a card. So tapping the card and untapping the card added a mana to my pool?

That whole process just kind of confuses me a bit. Mind you I only played the first campaign so this could come up more in detail later on. I guess I just don't understand the process of doing it outside of the planeswalker being able to untap it.

Thanks for any help.

 

[WanderingWind]

So I went and bought a toolkit messed around with the cards a bit and then started playing through the compaign on Magic Duels to get familiar with the game. The only big question I have that I feel is just sort of brushed over in the tutorial is the whole idea of physically tapping mana to add to your mana pool. In the tutorial it did it in the case of having a Planeswalker that could untap a card. So tapping the card and untapping the card added a mana to my pool?

That whole process just kind of confuses me a bit. Mind you I only played the first campaign so this could come up more in detail later on. I guess I just don't understand the process of doing it outside of the planeswalker being able to untap it.

Thanks for any help.

So, when you tap a land for mana, it adds 1 mana to what is commonly called the "mana pool." You can only tap a land once (until your next untap phase, which comes right before you draw your card for the turn) unless an effect - such as that Planeswalker ability - allows you to untap it. If it's untapped, you can then tap it again for another mana.

 

[RepairmanJack]

So, when you tap a land for mana, it adds 1 mana to what is commonly called the "mana pool." You can only tap a land once (until your next untap phase, which comes right before you draw your card for the turn) unless an effect - such as that Planeswalker ability - allows you to untap it. If it's untapped, you can then tap it again for another mana.

Ok, so I get that for the most part but where my confusion is, is there any other use for this outside of being able to untap it. Like, If I have 4 lands and tap one I'll still only have 4 mana correct? I'm not going to have 5(4 cards and one extra) the next turn right? If I have no way to untap that is there any other use of this? Or is that just too hard to expand on because of more complicated cards down the line?

 

[WanderingWind]

Ok, so I get that for the most part but where my confusion is, is there any other use for this outside of being able to untap it. Like, If I have 4 lands and tap one I'll still only have 4 mana correct? I'm not going to have 5(4 cards and one extra) the next turn right? If I have no way to untap that is there any other use of this? Or is that just too hard to expand on because of more complicated cards down the line?

If you have 4 lands and tap them all you will have 4 mana to spend. If you then untap one of those lands with an ability or effect that allows you to do that, you can then tap it again to get 5 mana, which will allow you to cast a higher cost spell.

Quick note, the mana doesn't stick around if you do not spend it. When you move to the next phase (like going from your first main phase to combat) the mana vanishes.

 

[RepairmanJack]

If you have 4 lands and tap them all you will have 4 mana to spend. If you then untap one of those lands with an ability or effect that allows you to do that, you can then tap it again to get 5 mana, which will allow you to cast a higher cost spell.

Quick note, the mana doesn't stick around if you do not spend it. When you move to the next phase (like going from your first main phase to combat) the mana vanishes.

Ok cool, think I have it. This was about the only part that seemed out of nowhere and kind of confusing in the Duels game.

 

[OnPoint]

Probably because Aether is going to be in the name of a set and the ligature makes it a pain in the ass to google. The confusion isn't worth the (debatable) style points.

Already confirmed as Kaladesh-block set two, Aether Revolt.

 

[A Serious Man]

Already confirmed as Kaladesh-block set two, Aether Revolt.

Did you think I was just guessing or something?

 

[OnPoint]

Did you think I was just guessing or something?

Oops! You said "probably" so I just responded, but I was half asleep and didn't look at who it was who posted. Using AE is superior in my opinion. I always hated Æ because it's impossible to type and even more impossible to say.

 

[charlequin]

Also if "prerelease" existed around Ice Age I didn't know about it.

It took several years before they started doing multiple regional pre-releases, but starting from Ice Age they had a giant tournament ~2 weeks before set release for every expansion.

Best basics in Magic history.

Yes, the whole problem with Esper is that it has this absolutely gorgeous visual and setting design and then just completely squanders it.

 

[El Topo]

It's probably just nostalgia, but I really like the Mirage Forest basics. The lush jungles were a welcome change from the original Forest basics.
For those that want to look at some of the basics we had over the years: https://sites.google.com/site/mtgbasics/

 

[Keru_Shiri]

I'm actually pretty intrigued by what they'll do with the 4-color commander decks. My guess is there will be a 4-color flagship general, with the other 2 generals comprised of hybrid mana costs or off-color activation abilities. One cool idea could be a hybrid-cost general made up of two different pairs that could be played as a 2, 3, or 4 color general depending on the desired strategy.

 

[Angry Grimace]

What if the source of the magic from the plane is Karn and they have him strapped somewhere draining him? Then Chandra finds him, frees him and they lead the Aether Revolt.

Or they are using all the magic to keep Karn trapped, then Chandra finds him, frees him and magic comes back to the plane, thus starting the Aether Revolt against the old system.

Isn't this just the plot of Scars block

 

[Santiako]

Isn't this just the plot of Scars block

I don't know, I wasn't playing during scars.

 

[MoxManiac]

Kaladesh looks like Steampunk Arabian Nights.

 

[Angry Grimace]

It took several years before they started doing multiple regional pre-releases, but starting from Ice Age they had a giant tournament ~2 weeks before set release for every expansion.



Yes, the whole problem with Esper is that it has this absolutely gorgeous visual and setting design and then just completely squanders it.

Colored artifacts are also just actually stupid

 

[Lazy vs Crazy]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";203876283]Ben Stark has a draft video on CFB and it's as great as you'd expect from one of the best limited players.[/QUOTE]
He does a weekly stream on twitch at southfloridamagic. I caught a little bit of it last week and it was great.

 

[y2dvd]

Someone explain to me why Nahiri jumped up to $35?