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Magic: the Gathering - Shadows over Innistrad |OT| Blue's Clues

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[QUOTE="God's Beard!";204941214]I riffle the fuck out of my decks.[/QUOTE]

I riffled your mom's deck last night

EDIT: Closing potential red design space
abernum asked: Is red unable to temporarily steal enchantments? Is Zealous Conscripts a color pie break?

I believe so.

Opening red design space
sigmasonicx asked: In the past, you've said that red should not have instant-speed temporary control spells, but in the last two blocks, we've had Turn Against and Malevolent Whispers. Does this reflect a shift in your opinion?

That’s where the default is. It’s the kind of thing Red can dip it’s toe in on occasion. It’s like how the default for discard is sorcery but every once in a rare while, we make instant discard.
 

Daedardus

Member
Is it me or does Standard seem a little stale this time around? Everyone's running the same type of deck and I don't find them very exciting. Maybe it's just me because I'm heavily invested in Modern right now, but I seem to remember more exciting times in Standard.
 
Is it me or does Standard seem a little stale this time around? Everyone's running the same type of deck and I don't find them very exciting. Maybe it's just me because I'm heavily invested in Modern right now, but I seem to remember more exciting times in Standard.

I had a conversation with people at my LGS about the exact opposite last night. Even at the higher levels, there's 3 or 4 decks that are rotating in and out of the top slots. Below that, it's chaos. So many decks that you can legitimately bring to your FNM and do well with.
 

ironmang

Member
I had a conversation with people at my LGS about the exact opposite last night. Even at the higher levels, there's 3 or 4 decks that are rotating in and out of the top slots. Below that, it's chaos. So many decks that you can legitimately bring to your FNM and do well with.

Agreed. There's so many powerful cards and the top decks have pretty blatant weaknesses. Standard is in a pretty fantastic spot right now.
 

Crocodile

Member
Fresh from the Robo Rosewater press:

CjpTSRUXIAAlq4J.jpg


I want to Cube with this <3
 

Crocodile

Member
I remember when Welkin Tern was an actively good aggressive Blue two drop. Now we get dudes with Flash, the ability to block AND an extra ability like every other set now LOL.
 
I'm really surprised by Seismic Rupture in the sideboard.

EDIT: Whoops, from the art, I had assumed it was that land destruction card, Structural Distortion. Not surprising anymore.

Image.ashx
Image.ashx
 
I haven't played in Standard much post rotation, but I really should get back into it. UG Clues looks utterly hilarious as a deck.

I think part of the reason why standard feels stale is the lack of standard coverage recently. Everyone's been focusing on modern in recent times and with the lack of standard screentime it feels stale. Compare it to last year, where you had 4 color hell in the later half.
 
Standard's great right now. G/W are obviously the best colors but you can succeed with anything. It still feels like it hasn't been fully explored, I've seen a lot of builds with potential.
 
Saffron takes a stab at EMA's EV, putting it at $200. The Magic Online EV is projected to be between "leaving your wallet in a truck stop bathroom" and "co-signing a car loan with your pothead cousin".

Yeah, this set is complete hot garbage for MTGO. For the most part I don't blame them (paper absolutely should take precedence here) but I think they whiffed pretty badly on the specific topic of including a few random bulk-in-paper-gold-online cards like Misdirection.

Re: the value, I'm not sure his methodology totally makes sense -- most of the expensive stuff is "out of stock" on SCG and will probably bump up when it comes back in -- but it's nice to see that it really is more in line with MM than MM2, and will probably have positive effects on card values overall.
 

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
lol

i wonder if i should sell my force of wills online. it's slowly climbing back up but not sure if it will last.

That's the million dollar question, isn't it? Are we in the end times of how MTGO deals with cards, or will whatever Next is revitalize it to the point where players join en masse? We could look back on the days where you could buy cards for pennies wistfully, or look back play paying money for individual cards as dumb.

Or Next could just be a lot of nothing and we'd still be where we are.
 

alternade

Member
So my LGSs format for Commander is just pods with a graveyard pod and winners pod. It kinda feels bad to pay and only play 1 round with a chance at winning. Are there better setups they could do?
 
That's the million dollar question, isn't it? Are we in the end times of how MTGO deals with cards, or will whatever Next is revitalize it to the point where players join en masse? We could look back on the days where you could buy cards for pennies wistfully, or look back play paying money for individual cards as dumb.

Or Next could just be a lot of nothing and we'd still be where we are.

Digital card prices are doomed because redemption is doomed. Even if Next is a huge hit, I don't see current MTGO collections maintaining their value because Next is almost certainly going to handle card distribution differently.
 
So my LGSs format for Commander is just pods with a graveyard pod and winners pod. It kinda feels bad to pay and only play 1 round with a chance at winning. Are there better setups they could do?

We just have a monthly commander fnm event that's free to attend and randomly gives out FNM promos among participants.
 
PV: Ok yeah maybe that Twin ban was the right call after all: www.channelfireball.com/articles/moderns-a-better-format-now-why/

What he actually said was that the unbanning of other cards justifies the Twin banning in retrospect. He still stands behind his original position on the banning at the time. I'm more or less of the same opinion. I think it was wrong to ban the card at the time (the data just wasn't there) and it was a blatant attempt to shake up the meta for the PT. Now that it's six months-ish later, and they've dropped the PT (still a bittersweet feeling, TBH) and pulled two cards off to replace the one they added, things are slowly coalescing to a better place.
 

Daedardus

Member
They still need to unban Jace for UWR to become completely relevant again though.

I honestly don't know if this would be a good idea or not.
 

Hero

Member
What he actually said was that the unbanning of other cards justifies the Twin banning in retrospect. He still stands behind his original position on the banning at the time. I'm more or less of the same opinion. I think it was wrong to ban the card at the time (the data just wasn't there) and it was a blatant attempt to shake up the meta for the PT. Now that it's six months-ish later, and they've dropped the PT (still a bittersweet feeling, TBH) and pulled two cards off to replace the one they added, things are slowly coalescing to a better place.

How can you even type that there's not enough data when Twin has been a major archetype in Modern from the format's inception all the way until it's banning?
 
Article going into the Emraklues on the mothership today. If anything I was too conservative in identifying what cards counted, I totally didn't call Lightning Axe.

What he actually said was that the unbanning of other cards justifies the Twin banning in retrospect. He still stands behind his original position on the banning at the time.

This is basically what you say when the evidence is against you and you want to get off your unsupportable old theory without specifically admitting you were wrong. "Twin isn't a good ban unless you also unban Visions" is the same actual claim as "Twin is a good ban as long as you also unban Visions," really.

EDIT: Scourge Wolf is waaaaay creepier than I realized.

lcuIzRM.jpg
 
How can you even type that there's not enough data when Twin has been a major archetype in Modern from the format's inception all the way until it's banning?

Being a consistent and successful archetype in a format is not justification for a banning in an "eternal" format, unless you're advocating the implementation of adjudicated rotation via the banlist. In order to justify a banning, you need to demonstrate that the archetype overperforms (that it consistently converts above its representation rate into Days 2/Top 8s) or that it is overrepresented (that it takes up too high of a percentage of the metagame). The data did not support such a claim as of the time that Splinter Twin was banned.

This is basically what you say when the evidence is against you and you want to get off your unsupportable old theory without specifically admitting you were wrong. "Twin isn't a good ban unless you also unban Visions" is the same actual claim as "Twin is a good ban as long as you also unban Visions," really.

Except they weren't done together. Twin was banned as a singular action; Vision happened later. Perhaps they were/are both part of a larger strategic initiative, but we can't know if that's true. Each move on the ban list has to be judged on its own merits, and should be judged based on the data and information available at the time. Metagames are unstable systems with a large amount of factors influencing their direction which make them very difficult to predict. I believe you need large amounts of data compelling you to make a ban, and that data did not exist at the time that Splinter Twin was unbanned. Otherwise, you're taking a gamble that your predictive model of the metagame is correct, as opposed to making a move based on data.

Now, I also believe (and this is just part of my philosophy on how you should manage a ban list) that the banlist should be as small as possible, so any move which results in a net decrease in cards on the banlist is likely to be a good one (this is really just a heuristic for finding which cards are the most dangerous). If banning Splinter Twin was part of an initiative to pull more cards off of the banlist, then I would support that move on that basis. Ancestral Vision would be one of the cards that I would imagine was being suppressed by Twin, and there are more still on there that could theoretically come off now (one of Ponder or Preordain, for example, could be tested). Sword of the Meek is an orthogonal win condition for a control deck, and isn't really part of this discussion, so the jury's still out here.

I think what frustrates me most is that because of the way that this all went down, we have no idea what the effect the Twin ban would have had on its own. It was banned at the start of Eldrazi Winter and Sword of the Meek/Vision came off when Eye was banned. We never got a clean look at the specific impact of the Twin ban; it was just the start of a tidal wave of changes that cleaned out the metagame. This goes back to the point I've made before that you shouldn't update the banlist at the same time that you release new cards, but it's clear they aren't going to change that.

All that to say this: I don't believe the banlist update with OGW was correct. I believe the banlist update with SOI rectified a lot of those mistakes. I think we ended up with a better Modern by the end of all of it, but I don't believe they handled the situation correctly. Especially we had just gotten over the "whose favorite deck in Modern is getting banned this time" meme.
 
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