Support NeoGAF

[Ashodin]

Reddit already figured it out

 

[kirblar]

That was on the posters

 

[OnPoint]

What was? Links are helpful guys!

 

[Son1x]

GP Prague has a pretty nice playmat this year.

After looking at the art closely for the first time, Is it just me or does he look like EviLore?

 

["God's Beard!"]

I dunno, I'm kinda bored of SOI draft already. It's pretty vanilla compared to something like KTK. The cards are good and the overall balance seems fine, but there doesn't seem to be a ton of depth. I've figured out some weird stuff like Angelic Purge/Bound by Moonsilver with Gryff's Boon, but overall it feels almost core set-ish.

The Clue token/Madness/Delirium synergies are cool, but feel more like occassional bonuses than focused archetypes. I'm only half a dozen drafts in, but that's my early impression.

The transforming aura is pretty sweet, though.

 

[El Topo]

Limited review by LSV for White is up, just in case anyone is interested and/or it has not already been mentioned.
http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/shadows-over-innistrad-limited-set-review-white/

 

[pigeon]

Thraben Inspector is the card I would use to explain to time travelers how badly creatures were overcosted in the first part of Magic history.

 

[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";199436672]Hangarback comes down earlier in a deck full of big mana plays, and is a better combo with ruins of oran reif. Matter reshaper is just as bad against exile without the upside of sometimes winning the lategame by itself. Furthermore, Hangarback is artifact 5-8 for the purposes of not killing myself with mindwrack demon. Which is especially important when I side out hedron crawlers for sweepers.

Matter reshaper is a decent value play if a little generic, but if I was going to play it it certainly wouldn't be over hangarback.[/QUOTE]

My experience (I played Oran-Rief/colorless decks for 80% of the post OGW-period) is that Oran-Rief into Hangarback is an overrated synergy; you get the equivalent of 1 mana on a ETBT land and then your guy just dies to Declaration in Stone anyways.

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";199448482]I dunno, I'm kinda bored of SOI draft already. It's pretty vanilla compared to something like KTK. The cards are good and the overall balance seems fine, but there doesn't seem to be a ton of depth. I've figured out some weird stuff like Angelic Purge/Bound by Moonsilver with Gryff's Boon, but overall it feels almost core set-ish.

The Clue token/Madness/Delirium synergies are cool, but feel more like occassional bonuses than focused archetypes. I'm only half a dozen drafts in, but that's my early impression.

The transforming aura is pretty sweet, though.[/QUOTE]

You should consider quitting Magic if you're bored of SOI draft 2 weeks before it comes out.

 

[Horatorobor]

I bought a ktk box and it had all 5 fetches and a foil murderous cut, nice pulls I'd say.

 

[Angry Grimace]

This is fun. Sometimes it even wins!

Deck: GB Delirium

//Lands
3 Caves of Koilos
4 Evolving Wilds
3 Forest
4 Hissing Quagmire
4 Llanowar Wastes
5 Swamp
1 Wastes

//Spells
4 Dead Weight
2 Grasp of Darkness
3 Spatial Contortion
3 To the Slaughter
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald

//Creatures
4 Deathcap Cultivator
3 Kindly Stranger
4 Mindwrack Demon
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Tooth Collector

//Sideboard
3 Pick the Brain
1 To the Slaughter
2 Infinite Obliteration
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
4 Matter Reshaper
3 Duress

Display deck statistics

(Yes I am aware this deck could theoretically run the Gitrog Toad and doens't). I sort of wondered about Oath of Nissa but its so much worse than Traverse the Ulvenwald in this deck I didn't really bother.

 

["God's Beard!"]

My experience (I played Oran-Rief/colorless decks for 80% of the post OGW-period) is that Oran-Rief into Hangarback is an overrated synergy; you get the equivalent of 1 mana on a ETBT land and then your guy just dies to Declaration in Stone anyways.

Your 2-mana card dying to a 2-mana card and getting a clue token out of the deal isn't something that really gives me pause. Declaration on Mindwrack is certainly annoying.

 

[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";199458836]Your 2-mana card dying to a 2-mana card and getting a clue token out of the deal isn't something that really gives me pause. Declaration on Mindwrack is certainly annoying.[/QUOTE]

Assuming you cast Hangarback for 1 and never invested any mana into it, I guess.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Assuming you cast Hangarback for 1 and never invested any mana into it, I guess.

I just don't see how any of these arguments make Hangarback worse than Matter Reshaper.

 

[Angry Grimace]

The Hedron Crawler seems a lot more questionable, really.

 

["God's Beard!"]

The Hedron Crawler seems a lot more questionable, really.

...Hedron Crawler is the crux of the deck. It's the reason I started building a non-green aggro deck based on 4 and 5 drops. It's like playing a GR dragons deck. You can blast a couple things and drop dragon after dragon, or you can ramp one out on turn three.

Pretty much everything in the deck is more questionable than Hedron Crawler. You can rotate just about any other card and still have the same strategy, but the crawler is an irreplacable effect.

 

[Haines]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";199448482]I dunno, I'm kinda bored of SOI draft already. It's pretty vanilla compared to something like KTK. The cards are good and the overall balance seems fine, but there doesn't seem to be a ton of depth. I've figured out some weird stuff like Angelic Purge/Bound by Moonsilver with Gryff's Boon, but overall it feels almost core set-ish.

The Clue token/Madness/Delirium synergies are cool, but feel more like occassional bonuses than focused archetypes. I'm only half a dozen drafts in, but that's my early impression.

The transforming aura is pretty sweet, though.[/QUOTE]


Yep, after playing lots today (paper) I have to say I agree.

Right now I'm building decks to look for synergies at the more common level and I notice green white humans matter plus clues matter is a thing. Might be something for you to look at

Delerium also still seems scary to chase after and more if just an exciting thing when it does pop off

 

[Joe Molotov]

Might as well just cancel the set. RIP SOI; may flight of angels sing thee to thy rest.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I'm just gonna be glad if there isn't gonna be anything as dominant as BW was in OGW. I picked up on it right away and easily 3-0'd the first draft but the next fnm both colours were already way overdrafted and that continued for the next couple weeks.

Worst part was you could still just force BW and get a 2-1 deck usually.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Delerium also still seems scary to chase after and more if just an exciting thing when it does pop off

Topplegeist with delirium and Spectral Shepard is pretty good. Topplegeist without either is pretty meh.

 

[Haines]

Right now I'm looking at blue red to see if blues discard works with red madness

It's looking better then expected if you can grab something like mad prophet. That card just enables so much card advantage with blue.

Can anyone explain epitaph ability. I don't understand what it does for you to want to pay 2

 

[Santiako]

Right now I'm looking at blue red to see if blues discard works with red madness

It's looking better then expected if you can grab something like mad prophet. That card just enables so much card advantage with blue.

Can anyone explain epitaph ability. I don't understand what it does for you to want to pay 2

I'm assuming you are talking about this?

It's just so you don't get milled, or if you want the chance to reuse a card if you have a tutor or shuffling effects.

 

[Haines]

Ah, OK. So basically a vanilla 3/5 uncommon in limited aside from the delerium card type enabler

 

["God's Beard!"]

Ah, OK. So basically a vanilla 3/5 uncommon in limited aside from the delerium card type enabler

Well, there's actually the framework for a blue mill deck in limited so this basically lets you stack your deck to an extent once they're milling you. I've only gotten milled once, though.

 

[blindrocket]

I still lack a Dark Depths and 2x Sylvan Library.

So close!

 

[Santiako]

Ah, OK. So basically a vanilla 3/5 uncommon in limited aside from the delerium card type enabler

I don't think you'd ever play this unless you were severely lacking in creatures (or as a sideboard card if your opponent is playing mill).

 

[Haines]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";199463392]Well, there's actually the framework for a blue mill deck in limited so this basically lets you stack your deck to an extent once they're milling you. I've only gotten milled once, though.[/QUOTE]

Ah. I'm going to look at the mill deck later this week. Do you know what colors it is aside from blue?

We had fun building our sealed pools today. I tried a white blue spirit deck but it could only hold up against his RG wolves when he flooded. The wolves really punish you when you miss a turn so you really want playable early drops. I wonder if this will make the enchantments more valuable just to have an early play. Idk.

just spent a few hours and built
UR madness
BR vampire.madness
WG humans.clues
BU zombies

/1 rare and 3 Commons in each. Essentially to spend Wed playtesting with my buddy and my brother. Want to try and get the commons figured out.

Really not a huge fan of the colorless stuff so far but I'm sure there better I just haven't figured them out yet. The 3/1 scarecrow seems fin for 3

 

[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";199461594]Topplegeist with delirium and Spectral Shepard is pretty good. Topplegeist without either is pretty meh.[/QUOTE]

Topplegeist is kind of a trap card. It's bad without Delirium and its in colors that don't have a ton of payoff in Delirium. I kind of wonder if it was supposed to be a constructed card, but it has the same problem there.

A lot of the SOI mechanics/synergy seem like they don't have a good payoff, either in limited or constructed. That Vampires deck has gotten a bunch of attention, but the only real payoff for playing it is Olivia into Drana, and that's basically a combo that just requires you to achieve a specific curve-out.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I mean, I'd probably play Topplegeist even if I couldn't reach delirium if my deck was aggressive enough, but I wouldn't be super happy about it.

Then again, I still have 4 foil Glaring Aegis so my history of valuing this sort of effect correctly is pretty bad.

 

[Haines]

Before the weekend I'm going to give delerium a hard look. I've absolutely had it pop off and I think it's reasonable to have as a mechanic in the set but I have a hard time evaluating if the cards that help enable it are worth playing.

The LR set review will probably help me.

 

[traveler]

I still want to do something with topplegeists, rattlechains, deadafenza and ojutai's commands, but I don't think spirits is there yet. Maybe when Eldritch Moon hits, they'll get the support they need.

 

[kirblar]

In Chapin's standard brew article today, he specifically calls out Arlinn Cord as underperforming. Not a surprise.

 

[Angry Grimace]

In Chapin's standard brew article today, he specifically calls out Arlinn Cord as underperforming. Not a surprise.

I think its mediocre at best and actually bad at worst. I have yet to see it do basically anything particularly good in a game that wouldn't have been won otherwise.

Card that is in fact actual good: Traverse the Ulvenwald. Card is absolutely ridiculous if you get Delirium.

 

[Haines]

I really enjoyed LSV white review and the only thing I think he a little off on was the 4 mana kill attacking creature. Silver something. I just think it's better than /2 on his scale.

Playing some with the wifey right now. She just pale rider into fiery temper'd me.

Good play lol

Pyrehound on board. Catalog into nagging thoughts is pretty good.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

I think its mediocre at best and actually bad at worst. I have yet to see it do basically anything particularly good in a game that wouldn't have been won otherwise.

Card that is in fact actual good: Traverse the Ulvenwald. Card is absolutely ridiculous if you get Delirium.

Traverse is my pick for "most likely to be busted in Modern." It turns into a banned card when you have Delirium, for goodness sakes.

 

[Metroidvania]

In Chapin's standard brew article today, he specifically calls out Arlinn Cord as underperforming. Not a surprise.

Wonder if it'll end up over/under Tibalt.

 

[y2dvd]

Melissa Detora mentioned Hangarback takes care of the artifact and creature for you when checking for Delirium. Looks like that's going back into any deck that may want to trigger Delirium.

 

[OnPoint]

Wonder if it'll end up over/under Tibalt.

Tibalt will probably be the lowest performing 'walker we see for some time. Though I wonder if Narset is close.

 

[Haines]

In case you guys didn't see

http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/141794840953/if-the-as-fan-of-double-face-cards-is-1125-that

Dfc booster pack info

 

[A Serious Man]

Wonder if it'll end up over/under Tibalt.

Tibalt is straight up unplayable, Arlinn just feels flimsy. The best I've seen her perform so far is speed up the kill clock by a turn. Most of the time she's dead within two turns or does nothing significant.

Sin Prodder, on the other hand, is definitely a card.

 

[Cosmo Clock 21]

Traverse is my pick for "most likely to be busted in Modern." It turns into a banned card when you have Delirium, for goodness sakes.

I can't think of what card you are referring to, which is it?

 

[keeblerdrow]

Melissa Detora mentioned Hangarback takes care of the artifact and creature for you when checking for Delirium. Looks like that's going back into any deck that may want to trigger Delirium.

Or Hedron Crawler, if you want a card that acts as a creature and artifact in the yard, plus a mana rock on the field. It's flimsy, but it's solid for a delirium deck. I'm just not sure if delirium decks are solid. I'm not sold on the mechanic in constructed.

I haven't really tested anything yet. I've never been able to properly brew without seeing the cards laid out in front of me, in the flesh.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

I can't think of what card you are referring to, which is it?

Green Sun's Zenith

 

[Angry Grimace]

Or Hedron Crawler, if you want a card that acts as a creature and artifact in the yard, plus a mana rock on the field. It's flimsy, but it's solid for a delirium deck. I'm just not sure if delirium decks are solid. I'm not sold on the mechanic in constructed.

I haven't really tested anything yet. I've never been able to properly brew without seeing the cards laid out in front of me, in the flesh.

Most of the Delirium bonuses aren't worth playing Hangarback if you weren't gonna play it to begin with I think. You pretty much get Delirium off of a single Mindwrack most of the time.

Mindwrack is the only one that's really independently good and he tends to enable Delirium on his own with his ETB (assuming proper deck construction). Traverse can be busted but using it as a cheap way to hit your land drops is usually just fine.

 

[Ashodin]

Anyone up for some cockatrice standard practice?

 

[keeblerdrow]

I was talking with my girlfriend about what was wrong with the last standard and many of the usual suspects came up: lack of graveyard hate, fetch/fetchable combo, dominance of the wedge cards, etc. We came up with the thought that this would have been the perfect standard for scavenging ooze to be legal in. It would have kept some of the worst parts of this last standard in check. Or at least my least favorite parts. Besides the obvious taming of the rally deck, it would have toned down jeskai black strategies by having to have your jace go head to head with the thing, it would have made goblin dark dwellers - recur crackling doom less reliable, and it would have given processing a sure fire way to get some gas early in the game.


How easy to use is the cockatrice interface? I tried it once a few years ago and it didn't make straightforward sense to me. I might like to try again for testing purposes.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Cryptolith Rite moving on up.


Also, using Mirrorpool to copy Thought-Knot in your opponent's draw step is pretty sweet. Almost as sweet as casting Hangarback for 0 to stop yourself from dying to your own Mindwracks and then winning.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I was talking with my girlfriend about what was wrong with the last standard and many of the usual suspects came up: lack of graveyard hate, fetch/fetchable combo, dominance of the wedge cards, etc. We came up with the thought that this would have been the perfect standard for scavenging ooze to be legal in. It would have kept some of the worst parts of this last standard in check. Or at least my least favorite parts. Besides the obvious taming of the rally deck, it would have toned down jeskai black strategies by having to have your jace go head to head with the thing, it would have made goblin dark dwellers - recur crackling doom less reliable, and it would have given processing a sure fire way to get some gas early in the game.


How easy to use is the cockatrice interface? I tried it once a few years ago and it didn't make straightforward sense to me. I might like to try again for testing purposes.

Forsythe said that Rally was too good because they didn't print enough functional graveyard hate because they didn't want to hose SOI graveyard strategies so there was nothing very good in BFZ block against graveyards.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Forsythe said that Rally was too good because they didn't print enough functional graveyard hate because they didn't want to hose SOI graveyard strategies so there was nothing very good in BFZ block against graveyards.

...there are SOI graveyard strategies?

 

[WanderingWind]

Y'all had me all confused, thinking SoI pre-release was this past weekend. Cockatrice, I'm guessing?

 

[traveler]

Oh man, didn't even think of cryptolith + evolutionary leap + ramp targets. Run a token deck off nissas, gideons, wastes, whatever- then tap them for mana, sac to leap and get your big ramp target guaranteed.

Trying my hand at a first draft of a new dragon control build utilizing Avacyn. It's actually testing pretty well in goldfishing against mono red Eldrazi, Bant coco with fetchlands since I didn't feel like redoing the manabase for testing and figured it'd only be more of a challenge with them in it, and the humans deck. This is literally the first draft I put down, with no numbers tweaking yet, so super rough:

3 Archangel Avacyn
4 Archangel of Tithes
3 Dragonlord Ojutai
3 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Orator of Ojutai
4 Reflector Mage
2 Sidisi's Faithful

3 Stasis Snare

2 Anticipate
3 Dragonlord's Prerogative
2 Negate
2 Ojutai's Command

1 Blighted Cataract
2 Haven of the Spirit Dragon
4 Island
2 Meandering River
2 Mirrorpool
6 Plains
4 Prarie Stream
4 Rishadan Port
1 Sea Gate Wreckage

The Eldrazi Displacer feels a bit too cute, but has had some crazy plays. The main takeaway I've had is what everyone else already knows- Avacyn is really good, especially when built around with x/4s. I specifically think the interactions between Sidisi's Faithful, Ojutai's Command, and Avacyn are pretty solid as a shell. Ojutai'ing back a faithful while countering their creature and bouncing one of the few creatures you have that will die to Avacyn off the exploit that will triggers the flip feels super good.

Archangel of Tithes has been my favorite card period in testing across these theoretical post rotation decks, but I'm not sure this deck wants to tap out that much mana for anything less than an Ojutai.

The 0/4 walls have matched up pretty well against the numbers in the field. In addition to surviving Avacyn, they also wall most CoCo creatures, Chandra's elementals, and require Chandra herself to die on etb if they actually feel like clearing 0/4s for some reason.