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[twobear]

There are two aspects to that:
* There haven't been any sets that take place solely on Dominaria since Time Spiral block years ago. They generally want to visit unique planes, instead of going to a new continent on Dominaria like they did in the old days.
* They have greatly deemphasized the fact that Dominaria is the center of the Multiverse. They actually did plan on outright changing Ravnica to the center of the Multiverse during the Return to Ravnica block, but they dropped that, presumably because (1) it's a rather esoteric setting detail that doesn't have a clear impact on anything, and (2) it would do nothing but anger older fans. Instead, they opted to make Jace princess of Ravnica.

i ask because i wonder if killing the eldrazi titans -> shit goes down on innistrad -> multiverse is in peril is a setup for a return to dominaria where everything's going crazy

 

[SigmasonicX]

i ask because i wonder if killing the eldrazi titans -> shit goes down on innistrad -> multiverse is in peril is a setup for a return to dominaria where everything's going crazy

Return to Dominaria is surely in the works, but I expect they will tie it more into the Phyrexian storyline than the Eldrazi.

 

[shrapnelmagnet]

Red Dog:

Boros Reckoner / Mogg Maniac in play, Emrakul in hand, attack with dog, hit your Reckoner with Emrakul discard. 15 face damage. What could go wrong?

I would do this, lol. Hell, I'd even use Hornet Nest.

 

[Ashodin]

Return to Dominaria is surely in the works, but I expect they will tie it more into the Phyrexian storyline than the Eldrazi.

Karn gonna follow in his father's footsteps and make incorruptible golems. I'm ready for this shit. Gimme back Karn!

 

[Angry Grimace]

MTGS (lol) is convinced Maro is trolling and counting Arlinn twice because she has two sides.

 

[Jhriad]

I'm legitimately not following why you're upset.

The decks you guys are listing absolutely DID run cards like Brimstone Volley, Boros Charm, Lightning Bolt and Searing Spear and they were important parts of the decks. If you're arguing that those decks would have been good if the burn spells that were in them weren't in them, that's just speculating.

Who said I was upset? I was merely pointing out the flaw with your rebuttals to their points. R&D has been pretty consistent about making Red Aggro playable over time, which other posters have pointed about by showing examples of relatively recent periods where Red Aggro has been, if not the dominant deck in the format, it was certainly a very viable option. Just because a current iteration of Red Aggro/Burn won't have access to a few specific cards that helped make those decks powerful that doesn't necessarily mean that a new combination of cards won't make Red Aggro just as viable. Obviously it all depends on where the meta ends up from week to week and we haven't seen the majority of this set so we're really just taking shots into the dark but recent formats would at least lend credence to the plausibility of a Red Aggro shell existing and being competitive (and if previous experience repeats, a relatively common matchup).

I'd be pretty doubtful that it would be a mono-red deck though. BR or WR Aggro seem much more likely. Tangentially, I wonder if Smash to Smithereens will see more play if Clue tokens end up being a thing. Could even clear the path for your own creatures with something like Declaration in Stone, swing through, and then Smash the clue tokens you've given them for extra damage. That's a pretty Christmas-land scenario though.

Wolves are the new Phoenix

They really just don't know what to do with red mythics lol

Well, at least it's something different than the norm. They'll have the return to form in Eldritch Moon when Sorin creates a Phoenix to guard the plane instead of an Angel. Regardless the obligatory Phoenix is always worth a good laugh.

http://www.howardlyon.com/illustration-store/isobel-the-angel

This is pretty neat.

Absolutely love the little touches like this.

Sinister Concoction is another fun design, though it will be pretty bad unless there really are a lot of madness cards..

It's a pretty good enabler for Delirium, if that mechanic is playable, since it puts an Enchantment into your yard pretty early. Turn two you could potentially have three different card types in your yard and even cast a 1 cost Madness spell.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Who said I was upset? I was merely pointing out the flaw with your rebuttals to their points. R&D has been pretty consistent about making Red Aggro playable over time, which other posters have pointed about by showing examples of relatively recent periods where Red Aggro has been, if not the dominant deck in the format, it was certainly a very viable option. Just because a current iteration of Red Aggro/Burn won't have access to a few specific cards that helped make those decks powerful that doesn't necessarily mean that a new combination of cards won't make Red Aggro just as viable. Obviously it all depends on where the meta ends up from week to week and we haven't seen the majority of this set so we're really just taking shots into the dark but recent formats would at least lend credence to the plausibility of a Red Aggro shell existing and being competitive (and if previous experience repeats, a relatively common matchup).

I'd be pretty doubtful that it would be a mono-red deck though. BR or WR Aggro seem much more likely. I wonder if Smash to Smithereens will see more play if Clue tokens end up being a thing. Could even clear the path for your own creatures with something like Declaration in Stone, swing through, and then Smash the clue tokens you've given them for extra damage. That's a pretty Christmas-land scenario though.

Nobody is talking about whether Mono Red Aggro is a playable deck, the discussion was whether it would be prevalent enough to not play Anguished Unmaking

 

[Ashodin]

MTGS (lol) is convinced Maro is trolling and counting Arlinn twice because she has two sides.

Hahaha

 

[charlequin]

i think it could be not actually emrakul herself but a side effect of killing the other eldrazi

This is definitely within the window of viable, but in that case what is Nahiri the harbinger of and what is she summoning with that ultimate?

is dominaria still the most important plane or did they drop that with all of the other stuff when they retconned all the lore

It's the most important plane the same way Texas is the most important state: it's big and it's sort of in the middle.

MTGS (lol) is convinced Maro is trolling and counting Arlinn twice because she has two sides.

Roofles. If you just made this up as a parody of dumb shit they say over there I would have no way to even know.

What if Marit Lage is not a unique entity, but Lage is a type of ancient creature, like how Eldrazi is a creature type.

Then I would be wondering what the hell is going on in Magic Creative that they invented two entirely distinct types of ultra-powerful, planar-traveling Cthuloid monsters from before the dawn of time and then deployed them both into the story at the same time.

 

[Angry Grimace]

There's also a guy who thinks he means how many planeswalkers are in the story and not "how many planeswalker CARDS and therefore he's trolling.

Four Planeswalkers sounds like the "well, I guess we can't put fetchlands or special shiny lands in this set" compromise.

 

[charlequin]

There's also a guy who thinks he means how many planeswalkers are in the story and not "how many planeswalker CARDS and therefore he's trolling.

You can tell these people infinity times that Rosewater misdirects but never actually lies and they will still come up with idiotic theories that are dependent on statements being explicitly untrue every time.

EDIT: Also there's five PWs in the story so far (Jace, Sorin, Nahiri, Tamiyo, Arlinn) so that guy's doubly an idiot?

Four Planeswalkers sounds like the "Well, I guess we can't put fetchlands or special shiny lands in this set" compromise.

Might as well have it be something. My big wonder is still whether they'll have the two in EDM.

 

[Remembrance]

This is definitely within the window of viable, but in that case what is Nahiri the harbinger of and what is she summoning with that ultimate?

She animates the moon and it becomes a legendary artifact creature.

Calling it now.

 

[Taramoor]

Then I would be wondering what the hell is going on in Magic Creative that they invented two entirely distinct types of ultra-powerful, planar-traveling Cthuloid monsters from before the dawn of time and then deployed them both into the story at the same time.

 

[Angry Grimace]

how dare you suggest I don't know what I'm doing

 

[Haines]

That mythic wolf

If you are discarding a card to deal damage to a minion are you still allowed to do madness if the card has it?

 

[Santiako]

That mythic wolf

If you are discarding a card to deal damage to a minion are you still allowed to do madness if the card has it?

Yes, you can play the card with Madness for its Madness cost at any time you'd discard it.

 

[Infinite Stars]

This is definitely within the window of viable, but in that case what is Nahiri the harbinger of and what is she summoning with that ultimate?

Tinfoil hat time:

Jace/The Gatewatch at Large still don't know that New Phyrexia is a thing. Nahiri is tied to Artifacts, NP is tied to Artifacts. She's going to try and bring the Phyrexians into Innistrad, with the "Eldritch Moon" being her attempt to open an interplanar portal. Obviously, it fails to connect to Innistrad(Wizards won't kill off Innistrad), but Jace gives a post-block report to Gideon about how there's other threats in the Multiverse beyond the Eldrazi, with Jace bringing back a Thopter as a sign of where they're heading. Chandra, fully healed, recognizes this as Kaladesh and demands to return there.

Fall 2016: Kaladesh

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

We kinda went back to Dominaria with origins Liliana hence we got Nantuko Husk in standard.

 

[bigkrev]

BOOOOOOO never let them stop thinking!

 

[Crocodile]

Maro just confirmed there are FOUR PW cards in SOI. Arlinn counts as ONE.

She animates the moon and it becomes a legendary artifact creature.

Calling it now.

Spoiler

 

[Angry Grimace]

lol I did it just one game 1 with Ulamog lmao

 

[Haines]

Sinister concoction seems infuckingcredible in draft in a delerium deck

You mill one. Discard something of your choice, and put an enchantment in your grave.

People I talk to tell me delerium isn't going to work in limited but I see so much already really geared to making it work. Especially solid enchantments.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Sinister concoction seems infuckingcredible in draft in a delerium deck

You mill one. Discard something of your choice, and put an enchantment in your grave.

People I talk to tell me delerium isn't going to work in limited but I see so much already really geared to making it work. Especially solid enchantments.

Without a Madness card, you're 2-for-1ing yourself though. It's definitely sweet, but it's way way too early to know if it's going to be good.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I won off Ulamog again with Zendikar Resurgent and my opponent was impressed

 

[SigmasonicX]

There's also a guy who thinks he means how many planeswalkers are in the story and not "how many planeswalker CARDS and therefore he's trolling.

Four Planeswalkers sounds like the "well, I guess we can't put fetchlands or special shiny lands in this set" compromise.

That reminds me, didn't one of the leakers mention something about "Innistrad Echoes", which would be premium cards in SOI just like Zendikar Expeditions? I guess that wasn't real.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Zendikar Resurgent is a super underrated limited card. People pass that thing all the time. It's not for every deck, but it's pretty great in your 17-18 creature green deck.

 

[Haines]

Without a Madness card, you're 2-for-1ing yourself though. It's definitely sweet, but it's way way too early to know if it's going to be good.

I believe red is where madness is and black has the delerium. Red is looking super strong in our play testing BC it has such good tempo.

So I could see Red black being very strong in this set if you are playing a card like this and getting madness off.

As for the 2 for 1 let's say you get delerium online. Could be worth it as once it's online your power level just went up a lot.

Also in a worse scenario maybe you have another card that plays with library and you get that card back or something.

Sorry. I'm talking a lot. I'm really excited about this set. I just see everyone saying delerium would be too slow for limited but than I see cards showing me dev knew that and made it fast enough.

 

[Santiako]

I believe red is where madness is and black has the delerium. Red is looking super strong in our play testing BC it has such good tempo.

So I could see Red black being very strong in this set if you are playing a card like this and getting madness off.

As for the 2 for 1 let's say you get delerium online. Could be worth it as once it's online your power level just went up a lot.

Also in a worse scenario maybe you have another card that plays with library and you get that card back or something.

Sorry. I'm talking a lot. I'm really excited about this set. I just see everyone saying delerium would be too slow for limited but than I see cards showing me dev knew that and made it fast enough.

We only have 70ish cards for now and are lacking essentially all commons, any limited testing is meaningless right now.

 

[Kas]

So a few weeks ago, I bought two Gatewatch packs, and forgot about them. Opened them up and got an Oath of Nissa, an Oath of Jace, and a foil Kalitas.

So I'm taking that as a sign to get back into Magic. Where should I start if I got out right before Dragons?

 

[SigmasonicX]

So a few weeks ago, I bought two Gatewatch packs, and forgot about them. Opened them up and got an Oath of Nissa, an Oath of Jace, and a foil Kalitas.

So I'm taking that as a sign to get back into Magic. Where should I start if I got out right before Dragons?

Well, for one thing, everything before Dragons of Tarkir is rotating out of Standard in April.
You might as well start from Shadows over Innistrad.

 

[Haines]

We only have 70ish cards for now and are lacking essentially all commons, any limited testing is meaningless right now.

Yes it's meaningless. But it's a lot of fun and you do still learn stuff a lot better by playing with the cards.

 

[kirblar]

So a few weeks ago, I bought two Gatewatch packs, and forgot about them. Opened them up and got an Oath of Nissa, an Oath of Jace, and a foil Kalitas.

So I'm taking that as a sign to get back into Magic. Where should I start if I got out right before Dragons?

BFZ block. Prices are at their low ebb and Dragons Origins rotate in six months.

 

[Jhriad]

Nobody is talking about whether Mono Red Aggro is a playable deck, the discussion was whether it would be prevalent enough to not play Anguished Unmaking

That's pretty much the exact argument you were making before everyone pointed out that Red Aggro has been playable pretty consistently for years.

Unless they magically make red aggro good again (Monastery Swiftspear isn't walking through that door), there's no reason to not run at least a copy or two if you're in those colors. It answers everything.

The context of the discussion is whether mono-red aggro strategies are actually good enough to make it so that players won't play any copies of Anguished Unmaking.

I'm just struggling to think of a good red aggro deck that didn't have like Brimstone Volley or Searing Spear (or going back further, just Lightning Bolt) in it.

Only after others pointed out that red aggro has been pretty consistently playable/good despite whether or not your selected Red staples were in each format did you shift the goalposts to prevalence rather than quality/playability.

Perhaps you meant prevalence without realizing you weren't being clear and wording it using a statement denoting quality. I dunno. It's pretty hard to read that from your posts before we responded and even a few of the subsequent posts. I don't think many were really disagreeing with an argument of an aggressive deck needing to be prevalent to keep Anguished Unmaking from seeing any significant play. You just weren't clearly making that argument until well after the discussion had started.

 

[Haines]

(Limited)

At first I thought neglecTed heirloom was maybe playable. Now that I've had a minute to think about, maybe not so much.

You need to have 2 mana to get it onto a creature. For 1/1. Not worth it.

Now, for its upside it has to be in a flip creature that is not flipped yet, and than that creature needs to meet its requirements to flip which isn't always easy either.

We know there's at least 1 flip creature in a pack so good chances you pick up at least a couple a draft but some of those could even be unplayable.

So let's say you get the good flip creature and you get this equipped and creature and heirloom flip. The stats couple with first strike seem very good and the payoff seems pretty bomby. First strike is amazing in limited I think.

There is a flipcard that needs to be equipped in order to flip. Put this card on that one for sure lol

 

[SigmasonicX]

One thing to note is that the equipment will transform even when equipped to a werewolf that turns back into a human.

 

[OnPoint]

Then I would be wondering what the hell is going on in Magic Creative that they invented two entirely distinct types of ultra-powerful, planar-traveling Cthuloid monsters from before the dawn of time and then deployed them both into the story at the same time.

My suggestion isn't that they travel planes. It's that each plane has its own unique Lage that belongs to and stays on it. Bad idea probably. But I was just making it up real quick.

 

[ironmang]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";198348765]Zendikar Resurgent is a super underrated limited card. People pass that thing all the time. It's not for every deck, but it's pretty great in your 17-18 creature green deck.[/QUOTE]

It can obviously do some broken things or even just turn dead draws like 2/2s on a locked board into redraws but it still costs 7 and doesn't do anything that turn You likely already played out your hand by then so you're at like 40% for it to have any effect on the game for the next turn too. If the board stays locked you'll crush them as the turns pass but most 7 drops should do that and they usually do it quicker.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

It can obviously do some broken things or even just turn dead draws like 2/2s on a locked board into redraws but it still costs 7 and doesn't do anything that turn You likely already played out your hand by then so you're at like 40% for it to have any effect on the game for the next turn too. If the board stays locked you'll crush them as the turns pass but most 7 drops should do that and they usually do it quicker.

LSV said it was a 0-mama draw four on the Limited Resources podcast.

Spoiler

He also said it was actually unplayable.

 

[Yeef]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";198348765]Zendikar Resurgent is a super underrated limited card. People pass that thing all the time. It's not for every deck, but it's pretty great in your 17-18 creature green deck.[/QUOTE]In a draft yesterday some guy played it in a red/green deck with both Invokers and a Rolling Thunder. It did a lot of good work.

 

[Taramoor]

My suggestion isn't that they travel planes. It's that each plane has its own unique Lage that belongs to and stays on it. Bad idea probably. But I was just making it up real quick.

Silent guardians from the deep, the first, last, and only true line of defense against the dread Eldrazi, they are... The Marit Lage Lantern Corps.

 

[ThLunarian]

Sulfuric Vortex: the card that has made me produce more salt than you'll find in the entire Frozen Dinner section of your local grocery store.

That goddamned card has torn victory away from me more times than I could ever hope to count. I hate it more than a root canal. I hate it more than climate change. I hate it more than Donald Trump.

If I were given the opportunity to erase Sulfuric Vortex from history at the cost of my firstborn child, then sorry mom, it looks like you're never having a grandkid.

Here's to all the life I could have gained if not for that vile three mana red enchantment because inevitably I ALWAYS have access to lifegain when that fucking boil on the ass of civilization hits the battlefield.

If I could buy every single copy of Sulfuric Vortex that ever existed, and as a result they shot up to five hundred dollars a piece, I would burn them all in a bonfire and invite the scumsucking ne'er-do-wells from R&D who designed the card to watch.

 

[charlequin]

My suggestion isn't that they travel planes.

Marit Lage is already established as having the ability to move between planes tho.

 

[Angry Grimace]

That's pretty much the exact argument you were making before everyone pointed out that Red Aggro has been playable pretty consistently for years.







Only after others pointed out that red aggro has been pretty consistently playable/good despite whether or not your selected Red staples were in each format did you shift the goalposts to prevalence rather than quality/playability.

Perhaps you meant prevalence without realizing you weren't being clear and wording it using a statement denoting quality. I dunno. It's pretty hard to read that from your posts before we responded and even a few of the subsequent posts. I don't think many were really disagreeing with an argument of an aggressive deck needing to be prevalent to keep Anguished Unmaking from seeing any significant play. You just weren't clearly making that argument until well after the discussion had started.

Please stop talking about this. I'm not interested in a meta-conversation about what the previous conversation was about.

 

[OnPoint]

Marit Lage is already established as having the ability to move between planes tho.

Could be retconed like whatever else. Or maybe they're ancient beings who can shed some light on how to deal with the eldrazi. Or maybe whatever because if I can come up with a half-assed idea in two second Magic creative can come up with something, anything, to sub in for Emrakul.

 

[Keru_Shiri]

Sulfuric Vortex: the card that has made me produce more salt than you'll find in the entire Frozen Dinner section of your local grocery store.

That goddamned card has torn victory away from me more times than I could ever hope to count. I hate it more than a root canal. I hate it more than climate change. I hate it more than Donald Trump.

If I were given the opportunity to erase Sulfuric Vortex from history at the cost of my firstborn child, then sorry mom, it looks like you're never having a grandkid.

Here's to all the life I could have gained if not for that vile three mana red enchantment because inevitably I ALWAYS have access to lifegain when that fucking boil on the ass of civilization hits the battlefield.

If I could buy every single copy of Sulfuric Vortex that ever existed, and as a result they shot up to five hundred dollars a piece, I would burn them all in a bonfire and invite the scumsucking ne'er-do-wells from R&D who designed the card to watch.

Take solace in knowing that the universe does even itself out. I have experienced similar anguish at Kor Firewalker over the years. I consider it's recent inclusion in Modern Burn's sideboard nothing short of blasphemy.

 

[Kas]

Well, for one thing, everything before Dragons of Tarkir is rotating out of Standard in April.
You might as well start from Shadows over Innistrad.

I'll probably start with BFZ and just keep collecting what I can.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Serious question:

SaffronOlive says "Pia and Kiran Nalaar seem nuts with Clue tokens, which provide ample fuel for the "sacrifice an artifact: deal two damage" ability. The best part of Pia and Kiran Nalaar is the pair is playable even without help."

Why would you want to pay 150% of the mana to do 2 damage over drawing a card?

 

[Keru_Shiri]

Serious question:

SaffronOlive says "Pia and Kiran Nalaar seem nuts with Clue tokens, which provide ample fuel for the "sacrifice an artifact: deal two damage" ability. The best part of Pia and Kiran Nalaar is the pair is playable even without help."

Why would you want to pay 150% of the mana to do 2 damage over drawing a card?

My guess is sometimes you'd rather have the guaranteed damage.

 

[Nikodemos]

When that 2 damage wins you the game.

 

[Angry Grimace]

My guess is sometimes you'd rather have the guaranteed damage.

I mean, you get the option of either, but I guess it just doesn't seem like a specifically good build-around interaction the way something like Thopter Spy Network or even Whirler Rogue does (since tapping the artifacts is completely meaningless with Whirler Rogue)