Hard to play Kalitas in Bant.
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Magic: the Gathering - Shadows over Innistrad |OT| Blue's Clues
- Thread starter SigmasonicX
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Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I'm telling you, sinister concoction is the premium black removal spell of this format. It's somewhat a build around due to the discard but it's cheap, uncounterable once on board, hits everything and feeds delirium twofold. I'm now up to a 3 of and a single nagging thoughts as an anticipate.
Just played against an interesting reanimator build using dragonlords and ever after. Don't often get hit by 2 Dl Atarkas triggers on the stack.
Just played against an interesting reanimator build using dragonlords and ever after. Don't often get hit by 2 Dl Atarkas triggers on the stack.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Basically unplayable without access to madness/graveyard strategies, overall worse than declaration and asks more of you than grasp for the same mana cost.
That said, it has a lot of upside. I'll consider a deathmist raptor build.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Forgot to add 'black', DiS definitely is better.
Just lost a game to a missclick, hurts thankfully in the beta.
Just lost a game to a missclick, hurts thankfully in the beta.
I P1P1'ed removal. Than the next pick was removal. Went W/b/u and am doing ok, 2-0. Let the removal decide my colors.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Being one of the worst topdecks in the format is also a real consideration.
I lost an online pptq match because I clicked on kozileks translator thinking it was my block step when I was at 1 life. No questions, just boom game over.
My reply from wizards also blamed me for not knowing better.
A Serious Man
Member
I'll never be convinced 2-for-1ing yourself is good. I can see some justification for it if delirium is super important to you but even that doesn't seem ideal. What if you need delirium and your opponent has no creatures on board or hasn't played a real threat yet? It also requires you to hold something in hand later in the game and gets bricked by Indestructible, which is not an unseen line of text in this format.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";201676196]Being one of the worst topdecks in the format is also a real consideration.
I lost an online pptq match because I clicked on kozileks translator thinking it was my block step when I was at 1 life. No questions, just boom game over.
My reply from wizards also blamed me for not knowing better.[/QUOTE]
That is some salt on the wound, but I guess they do need to say their platform can't be at fault. Really hate when you want some feedback and don't get it.
I lost an online pptq match because I clicked on kozileks translator thinking it was my block step when I was at 1 life. No questions, just boom game over.
My reply from wizards also blamed me for not knowing better.[/QUOTE]
That is some salt on the wound, but I guess they do need to say their platform can't be at fault. Really hate when you want some feedback and don't get it.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Good attitude to have but those of kind of drafts were my 0-2s, p1p1 bound by moonsilver, p1p2 bound by moonsilver.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";201676196]Being one of the worst topdecks in the format is also a real consideration.
I lost an online pptq match because I clicked on kozileks translator thinking it was my block step when I was at 1 life. No questions, just boom game over.[/QUOTE]
true but I don't think I've ever been hellbent with the Grixis shell I'm currently playing.
Which is said:
I had the same issue with them for preorders a while back. It's apparently a pretty common issue with their preorders. There have even been a few Reddit threads warning people away from them for preorders. They finally shipped my cards to me over a month after the set had released after I got tired of their form letter responses and escalated to Amazon.
SigmasonicX
Member
That reminds me, do you guys think Eldritch Moon might include hellbent? For those unfamiliar, cards with hellbent become stronger if you have no cards in your hand. It seems like it would interact well with all of the discard outlets.
Also, in terms of mechanics being carried over, I imagine that transform and madness will continue, and skulk is probably evergreen, but I suspect that investigate and maybe delirium won't return.
Investigate will almost certainly be gone given that the mystery will already be solved. I feel like Madness is more likely to go that Delirium. Delirium has more design space and plays well with just about any graveyard mechanic that's not delve. Madness requires a lot more support and doesn't really synergize with other graveyard mechanics.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Down a game against Fireball ramp, mull to 5, duress away the land destruction at 4 lands 1 red source, opponent draws another of magmatic insight kills my red source, exile all world breakers from the deck, duress away a fall of the titans, destroy goggles and kill tireless tracker, never draw a 2nd (2rd) red source again. Die to Ulamog.
Both games the opponents deck went down to ~15 cards and both times I was close to stabilizing (picking their deck apart) after getting screwed.
Currently trying out a mainboard pick the brain. From under the floorboards and nagging thoughts have been performing rather well, both as a 1-of.
Both games the opponents deck went down to ~15 cards and both times I was close to stabilizing (picking their deck apart) after getting screwed.
Currently trying out a mainboard pick the brain. From under the floorboards and nagging thoughts have been performing rather well, both as a 1-of.
I really hope they don't change the mechanics for Eldritch Moon. Pretty much all of them have room to grow or make new cards with. We don't have the 3 set problem anymore - I see no reason to "throw out the baby with the bathwater". I don't want another Born of the Gods scenario.
There are going to be bigger upheavals from set 1 to 2 now (like in OGW) to shake up limited more.
charlequin
Banned
Have they brought back a returning mechanic only in a (non-TSP) small set before? Have they had three returning mechanics in an (again, non-TSP) block?
They've talked a lot about the mistakes they made in BFZ (and THS, and ISD, and ZEN) in terms of not having enough continuity between sets, so I'd be surprised if they made that big a change to the mechanics. When you except DFCs (which don't take set space the same way, both because the mechanic is completely intuitive and because they literally don't use set slots since they're all in addition to the standard cards) there are four keyword mechanics in SOI, one of which is a really simple creature keyword. They could add two new ones -- you can totally get away with six-and-a-bit keywords in a small set, Journey Into Nyx had seven.
So far they have been wrong about this every single time they've tried it, though. I agree they're going to want to mix up the second sets more, but I'm not sure that dumping stuff from the first set is actually a great way to do it. (I kind of expect them to do more of the thing they did with Landfall in OGW, where they include a couple mechanics in small numbers.)
My biggest doubt here would be that since this is too early for BFZ feedback, they still might be making the same design mistake.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
MTGO shuffler was extra funny just now.
Opening hand to kept hand: 1 lander -> 1 lander -> no lander > no lander -> 3 lander
Bottom a Sinister concoction, continue to flood... Statistics *shrug*
Never had to take a mull to 3 before.
Game 1 I didn't see 1 of 13 red sources.
Drownyard world breaker loop is hefty.
Opening hand to kept hand: 1 lander -> 1 lander -> no lander > no lander -> 3 lander
Bottom a Sinister concoction, continue to flood... Statistics *shrug*
Never had to take a mull to 3 before.
Game 1 I didn't see 1 of 13 red sources.
Drownyard world breaker loop is hefty.
Battle for Zendilkar: Awaken, Converge, Devoid, Ingest, Landfall, Rally
Oath of the Gatewath: Cohort, Devoid, Landfall, Support, Surge
I dunno, I consider that an overall downgrade of abilities? Or at lest not a massive improvement. The draft format was improved but there wasn't much room to go down from BFZ anyway
Ingest/Converge were kind of whatever but then with only one set of support, it never could really develop into anything. Rally > Cohort, Awaken > Support or Surge.
Shadows of Innistrad: Delirium, Investigate, Madness, Skulk, Transform, Minor Tribal themes
Transform is the signature ability of the plane, its not going anywhere. There is going to be no major change in creature types (maybe more creatures get a horror subtype?). Madness is a mechanic they brought back for the theme of the entire block and there is still room to do more with it and there is still a flavor fit. Investigate is an actively good mechanic that offers a mana-sink and increases card velocity. It's just good gameplay - cutting it for flavor reasons would really piss me off. Delirium is the only one I could see going but then you'd still need a graveyard mechanic for the set no? Are they going to come up with something better they only intend to use in one set? I mean they could but as I said, I think we have a set of generally good mechanics. I'm a bit apprehensive and don't want them to cut good mechanics for bad mechanics. They've tried switching it up within blocks before and I feel its worked out poorly more often than it has worked out well.
EDIT: I kept this tab open for awhile so I didn't see charlequin's post. I agree with it.
Oath of the Gatewath: Cohort, Devoid, Landfall, Support, Surge
I dunno, I consider that an overall downgrade of abilities? Or at lest not a massive improvement. The draft format was improved but there wasn't much room to go down from BFZ anyway
Ingest/Converge were kind of whatever but then with only one set of support, it never could really develop into anything. Rally > Cohort, Awaken > Support or Surge. Shadows of Innistrad: Delirium, Investigate, Madness, Skulk, Transform, Minor Tribal themes
Transform is the signature ability of the plane, its not going anywhere. There is going to be no major change in creature types (maybe more creatures get a horror subtype?). Madness is a mechanic they brought back for the theme of the entire block and there is still room to do more with it and there is still a flavor fit. Investigate is an actively good mechanic that offers a mana-sink and increases card velocity. It's just good gameplay - cutting it for flavor reasons would really piss me off. Delirium is the only one I could see going but then you'd still need a graveyard mechanic for the set no? Are they going to come up with something better they only intend to use in one set? I mean they could but as I said, I think we have a set of generally good mechanics. I'm a bit apprehensive and don't want them to cut good mechanics for bad mechanics. They've tried switching it up within blocks before and I feel its worked out poorly more often than it has worked out well.
EDIT: I kept this tab open for awhile so I didn't see charlequin's post. I agree with it.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
I always like the 2-3 returning mechanics idea. There has to be some concession to people who maybe don't like investigate or delirium or madness. Take the core mechanics and keep those through the block and rotate the others around it. For SoI, those would be Transform and Madness. Investigate seems like a sure fire one to rotate out, after all, EDM is going to be about the discovery, not the mystery.
I think them trying to hit a checkbox of so many new mechanics ever set leads to shit like Cohort and Support.
I think them trying to hit a checkbox of so many new mechanics ever set leads to shit like Cohort and Support.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Support was shit but cohort was actually great.
Madness has to go, there is maybe 1 creative madness card, they just went down a list and made the
Madness has to go, there is maybe 1 creative madness card, they just went down a list and made the
- bounce spell
- kill spell
- token generator
- act of treason
- creatures
- cantrip
- flash enchantment combat trick
- mind control
- burn
- counter spell
- life drain
- fireball
charlequin
Banned
The best argument to cut it is definitely the storyline angle, for sure, but it's such a good mechanic that it seems perverse to drop it.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Delirium seems top of the list to go to me. It's relatively annoying to keep track of and has way less interesting rewards than investigate or madness do.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Yeah, it's the feel good mechanic of the block, for sure. I don't see it returning though. Personally, I don't really like madness as a mechanic, but I just don't know how they get rid of it with the whole block being about madness as a concept. Delirium ended up super sweet (one of these days I'll stop underestimating mechanics that reward you for doing what you were going to do anyway). Transform is obviously sweet. Skulk is whatever, but we all know they're making that the UB evergreen.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Discarded From under the floorboards by sinister concoction ftw against bant company.
And accidentally skipped my first turn...
And accidentally skipped my first turn...
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
yes instant speed divination would be too good and that's worst case scenario in casting it, even sorcery speed that'd be too good.
What about for 1U?
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
at sorcery speed playable, at instant speed very good but far from broken.
What are you taking?
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I'll never be convinced 2-for-1ing yourself is good. I can see some justification for it if delirium is super important to you but even that doesn't seem ideal. What if you need delirium and your opponent has no creatures on board or hasn't played a real threat yet? It also requires you to hold something in hand later in the game and gets bricked by Indestructible, which is not an unseen line of text in this format.
gotta try it, the delirium payoff is pretty big in black with Pick the Brain and To the Slaughter.
And there's just no removal outside of white that hits everything like Sinister Concoction does. After a bunch of testing it's better to 2-for-1 myself than the alternative of a dead card in many situations as I'm actually getting rid of the threat.
What if the opponent's creatures are x/5, what if they are manlands, what if they are multi colored or colorless, what if you're playing against control and what if you want to only have to hold up {B} or don't even have access to {BB}.
It's just my opinion and from personal testing on the beta which isn't the best environment and I'm far from an authority on standard.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Here, I'll help you out with a tested list I've made a dozen variations of:
I tried running a Season's Past but it was just way too much. It gets me 6 cards a ton of the time, but I generally already have 3-4 cards in hand so I dunno. It's not efficient when my deck is already so resilient. I'd rather just not have 6 drops, they don't play well with Gitrog anyway.
Sinister Concoction is good, but not crazy. It was fine when I had it, fine when I didn't.
My favorite thing about this build is actually how even the numbers are between card types. Nice and smooth, great ratios for delirium.
I still think my Bg Eldrazi deck is better, though. Games take way too long with this thing. I just killed a RB control player with Ob Nixilis' Emblem.
I tried running a Season's Past but it was just way too much. It gets me 6 cards a ton of the time, but I generally already have 3-4 cards in hand so I dunno. It's not efficient when my deck is already so resilient. I'd rather just not have 6 drops, they don't play well with Gitrog anyway.
Sinister Concoction is good, but not crazy. It was fine when I had it, fine when I didn't.
My favorite thing about this build is actually how even the numbers are between card types. Nice and smooth, great ratios for delirium.
I still think my Bg Eldrazi deck is better, though. Games take way too long with this thing. I just killed a RB control player with Ob Nixilis' Emblem.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
why is Gaby standing around in the background of the feature matches looking rather gormless
Yesterday she was peeking into players hands to get the info on the screen (she was holding an ipad or something like that). I can't watch today so I don't know.
Got back from drafting a sweet black deck with a splash of red. Went 3-0 on the back of great removal and a few discard outlets.
Markov dreadknight, call the bloodline, and mad prophet gave me tons of cards and ways to pitch lands to dig deeper. my pod passed tons of removal my way and I was able to take it from there.
Deck had 2 dead weights, 2 throttle, 2 of the destroy target tapped creature, roast and lightning axe. My opponents really couldn't establish a decent board state and I would win through attrition.
Markov dreadknight, call the bloodline, and mad prophet gave me tons of cards and ways to pitch lands to dig deeper. my pod passed tons of removal my way and I was able to take it from there.
Deck had 2 dead weights, 2 throttle, 2 of the destroy target tapped creature, roast and lightning axe. My opponents really couldn't establish a decent board state and I would win through attrition.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I mean, didn't they hire her to do commentary? That seems like a task for a 15 year old related to a production assistant
Sometimes BDM is doing that same thing so they probably just rotate.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Yeah, but BDM's just a random annoying guy and Gaby's a hot girl with some degree of PR skills.
Can't argue with that.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Feelsgoodman
Ramp matchup has gotten way better. Recurring Infinite Obliteration ftw, oath of nissa is a really nice way of telling the hand disruption player which creature to name.
Ramp matchup has gotten way better. Recurring Infinite Obliteration ftw, oath of nissa is a really nice way of telling the hand disruption player which creature to name.
Giant Panda
Member
If Kaladesh is the next block, then investigate will also play amazing in standard until it rotates out. I hope they print more investigate.
RW equipment, I've been testing it for two weeks now. It fits into the meta as an outlier, and I have sideboard tech for the biggest decks I'll see there.
Radiant flames, hallowed moonlight, felidar cub, roast, etc
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