criesofthepast
Member
https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/3y6jzw/brendan_dassey_trial_transcripts/
There is a lot there. The one about Steve touching him is the last one Brendan calling his mom Barb.
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Making A Murderer - Netflix 10-part documentary series - S1 now streaming on Netflix
- Thread starter Armadilo
- Start date
https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/3y6jzw/brendan_dassey_trial_transcripts/
There is a lot there. The one about Steve touching him is the last one Brendan calling his mom Barb.
ZQQLANDER
Member
Thanks. The comments are interesting. Apparently he was really controlling and ordered his brother to have sex with his wife while he was in prison the first time. Strange.
Fantastical
Death Prophet
That bleach stain sounds bad. I mean why would you leave that out of the doc? Barb says that on the 31st she asked Brendan about the stain and he said he got it while cleaning Steven's garage.
criesofthepast
Member
Someone has also been talking to Ken Kratz about all this and yes the guy is a sleazy bastard but he also points stuff left out of the doc that IF TRUE are incredibly damning evidence against Steven. It would be very easy to prove so just by looking at the evidence but some of these statements haven't been proven in that reddit thread I'm following. I hope someone can verify this is in fact real evidence.
Ken Kratz Emails said:
Fantastical
Death Prophet
Where does this come from?
criesofthepast
Member
Reddit thread in that sub.
Some of the stuff Ken Kratz is saying has been proven false and others not so please don't take it as 100% truth. I'm just sharing what he is saying. I've already found one thing that may be wrong. Steven didn't give Auto Trader a fake name. He gave the name of his sister "B Janda". (According to a comment reply that may or may not be true :/ )
https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMur...email_correspondence_with_ken_kratz_with_the/
Sadly is circunstantial, The officer can say he did a mistake and no one can prove that he is lying, because there is no hard evidence.
supernormal
Member
It's the same guy, Guillermo Santaolalla, so the music is very similar.
Vampire On Titus
Member
Wasn't this the call directly after Brendan was coerced into yet another confession? The one where he protested initially but was then made to draw pictures of the murder? I'd really have to take anything Brendan said afterward with a grain of salt. He's too impressionable and his story switched too often.
Episode 9.
It's beyond frustrating watching Brendan dig his own grave and walk into every single trap that is set out for him. He is too stupid to think of an argument so all he says is, "I don't know" like a small child, which in a way he is.
This whole fucking documentary is infuriating.
I can't say I had much faith in the system going into this documentary but whatever little faith I had is now gone. Not to sound too dramatic but everything shown in it is nothing but a bunch of bullshit.
This whole fucking documentary is infuriating.
I can't say I had much faith in the system going into this documentary but whatever little faith I had is now gone. Not to sound too dramatic but everything shown in it is nothing but a bunch of bullshit.
I watched the whole 10 episodes today. I was that transfixed.
What an absolute clusterfuck. I can't even comprehend the level of corruption and incompetence. I can't say I'm 100% sure of Steven's innocence but, from the evidence in the documentary, I'm strongly leaning on him (and Brendan) having nothing to do with her murder. The whole thing stinks of police corruption and the entire murder being pinned on him.
Two things stood out the most for me (not necessarily the strongest evidence but what personally jumped out at me): The voicemail being deleted and the jurors suddenly changing their minds after one jury suddenly had to leave and was replaced by a new person.
It might just be a coincidence but it seems so suspicious that the one juror who seems most shook up by the whole thing had to leave the case. I wouldn't be surprised if this was all set up by the state; replace one juror who was siding with Steven with some kind of plant, who convinced the other jurors to change their verdicts. The excused juror seemed so affected by the case and (this is totally subjective of course) appeared to be holding something back that he wanted to reveal. Shady as fuck.
I'm fairly convinced that if a competent set of investigators without any bias were to look over the entire case, interview key witnesses (the ex-boyfriend, her brother, the woman who found the Rav 4, Avery's relatives, the police, jurors, and so on, and re-evaluate the phone records and DNA evidence they'd be able to definitively find the killer.
Amazing television. I've never felt angrier after watching something than I do right now.
Two things stood out the most for me (not necessarily the strongest evidence but what personally jumped out at me): The voicemail being deleted and the jurors suddenly changing their minds after one jury suddenly had to leave and was replaced by a new person.
It might just be a coincidence but it seems so suspicious that the one juror who seems most shook up by the whole thing had to leave the case. I wouldn't be surprised if this was all set up by the state; replace one juror who was siding with Steven with some kind of plant, who convinced the other jurors to change their verdicts. The excused juror seemed so affected by the case and (this is totally subjective of course) appeared to be holding something back that he wanted to reveal. Shady as fuck.
I'm fairly convinced that if a competent set of investigators without any bias were to look over the entire case, interview key witnesses (the ex-boyfriend, her brother, the woman who found the Rav 4, Avery's relatives, the police, jurors, and so on, and re-evaluate the phone records and DNA evidence they'd be able to definitively find the killer.
Amazing television. I've never felt angrier after watching something than I do right now.
Some of those "not shown in documentary" revelations are kind of interesting and makes me question why the filmmakers would exclude it in a 10 hour documentary cause it doesn't fit their narrative? Not that any of it is super damning but none of it helps.
My biggest red flags were:
1) why does it take a police department 8 days to search a garage? 8 days???? It's not even that big. Either they are just sucking tax payers dry or I don't even know. I know if I spent 8 days in my garage I would have everything uncovered completely. How would you miss a bullet that appears to be in plain view?
2) where is the blood? Everywhere they claim she was killed no blood. There would have to be some blood. Alternative explanation I guess is perhaps she was strangled and killed then shot while she was on the fire? But why? Then why is there a bullet in the garage with no blood? Nothing makes much sense here
3) seriously 8 days???
I'm not sure there's an adequate and plausible alternate explanation but the Avery one doesn't make much sense either. I think it's certainly possible Avery killed her and sadly probably most likely cause reasonably I can't come up with any logical alternate scenarios. It would be a leap in my mind to think they found her dead in her car and then burned her on his property. Just a lot of leaps.
Avery was a bit of a deviant. Killed a cat. Weird masturbation and sex stories. All are very indicative of potential violence if you watch enough serial killer docs. So I can see that he would end up doing something just that urge would have to obviously override the fact he had just spent 18 years in jail for a crime he didn't commit.
My biggest red flags were:
1) why does it take a police department 8 days to search a garage? 8 days???? It's not even that big. Either they are just sucking tax payers dry or I don't even know. I know if I spent 8 days in my garage I would have everything uncovered completely. How would you miss a bullet that appears to be in plain view?
2) where is the blood? Everywhere they claim she was killed no blood. There would have to be some blood. Alternative explanation I guess is perhaps she was strangled and killed then shot while she was on the fire? But why? Then why is there a bullet in the garage with no blood? Nothing makes much sense here
3) seriously 8 days???
I'm not sure there's an adequate and plausible alternate explanation but the Avery one doesn't make much sense either. I think it's certainly possible Avery killed her and sadly probably most likely cause reasonably I can't come up with any logical alternate scenarios. It would be a leap in my mind to think they found her dead in her car and then burned her on his property. Just a lot of leaps.
Avery was a bit of a deviant. Killed a cat. Weird masturbation and sex stories. All are very indicative of potential violence if you watch enough serial killer docs. So I can see that he would end up doing something just that urge would have to obviously override the fact he had just spent 18 years in jail for a crime he didn't commit.
wapplew
Member
Fixed.
Dr. Feel Good
Banned
I used to live right near Manitowac. Small towns like this it's not surprising at all.
TrAcEr_x90
Member
This was like a real life true detective. A whole town corrupt.
SolidSnakesMyStepDad
Member
Holy shit the episode four stinger. My jaw literally dropped. Was gonna go to bed but started up episode 5 this is insane.
I've never seen all 10 episodes of anything, not even Game of Thrones, in one sitting, but this I just couldn't stop watching.
Hard to say if Avery is 100% innocent but one is thing is for sure, the county LEOs are definitely shady.
Watching poor Brendon go through all this was the worst part and sad thing is he is still in jail; doesn't make any sense.
Hard to say if Avery is 100% innocent but one is thing is for sure, the county LEOs are definitely shady.
Watching poor Brendon go through all this was the worst part and sad thing is he is still in jail; doesn't make any sense.
Haha I thought the same. At first thought Kratz changed his facial hair then realised it was another person.
Only got the last episode to watch now, really wanted to finish it but had to get to bed as I had work in the morning.
final thoughts
If Steve didn't do it, which I don't believe he did, then your mind instantly starts to think about who the real killer was. Unfortunately every theory so far has flaws in it.
If it was somebody who knew Theresa (ex-boyfriend, flatmate etc.) then Steve needs to be the unluckiest son of a bitch to ever walk the planet for this to happen just after she leaves his junk yard. Remember these guys lived in a totally different state. There's no way they set out with the intention of deliberately pinning it on Steve or colluding with cops etc. There's a good chance they had no idea who Steven Avery was.
If it was Steve's shady as fuck brother-in-law (or whtever relative, I forget), then the motive is there because the guy clearly hated Steven and was glad he got locked up. My guess is he was jealous of Steven looking like he was going to win the original lawsuit and probably end up rich. But then if these guys pinned it on Steve, it's pretty much impossible to explain the deleted answer phone messages. The could only have been done by someone who knew Theresa well enough to guess her password.
And finally the reddit theory about this crazy German guy. Certinaly there seems to be enough there to look into a bit further, but again if this is the truth then Steven is just incredibly unlucky for a woman to leave his junk yard and get murdered by some random guy on her way home. It's just such a bad stroke of luck I'm struggling to make the leap.
So, I dunno. I think he's innocent but there's no alternative that makes complete sense to me either.
If it was somebody who knew Theresa (ex-boyfriend, flatmate etc.) then Steve needs to be the unluckiest son of a bitch to ever walk the planet for this to happen just after she leaves his junk yard. Remember these guys lived in a totally different state. There's no way they set out with the intention of deliberately pinning it on Steve or colluding with cops etc. There's a good chance they had no idea who Steven Avery was.
If it was Steve's shady as fuck brother-in-law (or whtever relative, I forget), then the motive is there because the guy clearly hated Steven and was glad he got locked up. My guess is he was jealous of Steven looking like he was going to win the original lawsuit and probably end up rich. But then if these guys pinned it on Steve, it's pretty much impossible to explain the deleted answer phone messages. The could only have been done by someone who knew Theresa well enough to guess her password.
And finally the reddit theory about this crazy German guy. Certinaly there seems to be enough there to look into a bit further, but again if this is the truth then Steven is just incredibly unlucky for a woman to leave his junk yard and get murdered by some random guy on her way home. It's just such a bad stroke of luck I'm struggling to make the leap.
So, I dunno. I think he's innocent but there's no alternative that makes complete sense to me either.
Not reading any of the thread because I'm hooked in, but early in episode 4 with all the crazy stuff that's been covered I can't imagine how this thing still has nearly 7 episodes to go.
Episode 4:
Episode 4:
Obviously far from the most reprehensible action thus far, but directly hearing the AP interview where the reporter asks (regarding Dassey) "Is he smart?" and Avery pauses for 5 seconds before saying "Well, not really" followed by the kid's lawyer saying it was meant as a threat that he's not smart for testifying and could be harmed if he does..... sigh. Then the kid asks his mom what "inconsistent" means.
edit: Oh man... this Mike O'Kelley written "confession" part. Hard to take.
edit: Oh man... this Mike O'Kelley written "confession" part. Hard to take.
Clockwork
Member
I really don't see how they could have used that as evidence. The video even shows him clearly directing how and where to draw certain things.
I dunno, I think most people would have an easy time agreeing that Steven Avery definitely is incredibly unlucky.
RustyNails
Member
There is absolutely no way one can look at the entire events
leading up to his conviction and conclude that he was not framed. Lenk absolutely planted the evidence in the bedroom and the garage. He and the entire Sheriff's department is full of corrupt shitbags. Kratz never produced evidence for Teresa being shackled and the bloodletting that supposedly happened on the mattress and in the garage. That was my #1 thing: where is the evidence for this blood curdling, grisly murder? Not a single speck of Teresa's blood was found on Avery property.
The fact of the matter is everyone taking a big umbrage to the suggestion that the county is corrupt. Like, how dare they! And that was the prosecution's big goal. If your cops are corrupt, what does that tell you? It tells you that everyone is at the mercy of the state. It's a terrible fact to adjust to. Imagine your security being taken away and you could be falsely accused for something you didn't do, let alone a nightmarish murder.
That played well with the residents as well as the jury. No one could accept to face that reality and no one had the balls to say the cops planted the evidence. I mean, this is manatiwoc county, not cook county. And the piece of shit judge didn't want to accept the fact that he presided in a corrupt county. So of course he admitted Dassey testimony and from the start sided with the prosecution angle. However despite gaping holes everywhere in prosecution's case their ace in the hole has always been if not Avery, then who?
I don't know what happened, but having access to someone's personal voicemails and deleting them is shady as fuck, plus, the crazy Jesus lady that founded the car within 10 minutes of entering that junkyard. Colburn running Teresa's plate numbers 2 days before disappearance. I see a collusion between Teresa's contacts and the Sherrif's department.
I don't know what happened, but having access to someone's personal voicemails and deleting them is shady as fuck, plus, the crazy Jesus lady that founded the car within 10 minutes of entering that junkyard. Colburn running Teresa's plate numbers 2 days before disappearance. I see a collusion between Teresa's contacts and the Sherrif's department.
Syph Medwes
Member
Minor ofenses If I recall correctly, but look most of serial killers has that background, that's why I don't clear him 100% he has something that tingles my instinct
At age 18, Avery pleaded guilty to burglarizing a bar and was sentenced to 10 months in prison. When he was 20, Avery and another man pleaded guilty to animal cruelty after pouring gasoline and oil on Avery's cat and throwing it into a fire; Avery was sentenced to prison again for that crime. In 1985, Avery was charged with assaulting his cousin, the wife of a part-time Manitowoc County sheriff's deputy, possessing a firearm as a felon, and the rape of a Manitowoc woman, Penny Beerntsen, for which he was later exonerated. He served six years for assaulting his cousin and illegally possessing firearms, and 12 years for the assault, sexual assault, and attempted rape he did not commit.
Kratz's closing arguments in this regard were so scummy. It was basically like a threat. "They're YOUR police, you wouldn't want to admit they could do that, would you? Hmmmm?"
There was no way I was going to sleep without knowing the status of this case and I didn't want to "spoil" the documentary, so I just watched the whole thing until 6 AM.
I definitely felt like the show was skewed for the Averys and that there could be another documentary made on the same subject that had me a lot more conflicted about what happened. I was surprised that they was never anything turned up that could even in a documentary give something interesting about another suspect. Nothing happened with the deleted messages and supposed repeated phone calls?
But regardless of Steven's case, it really makes me angry that nothing seemed to come from Brendan's lawyer's ridiculous statements and seemingly obvious misconduct or just the nature of the confessions themselves. I want to watch the whole tapes unedited just to see if there is something I'm missing here.
Alright, now to read this thread, Reddit and google to get some more information. Though the amount of footage they had of all aspects shown was pretty insane.
But regardless of Steven's case, it really makes me angry that nothing seemed to come from Brendan's lawyer's ridiculous statements and seemingly obvious misconduct or just the nature of the confessions themselves. I want to watch the whole tapes unedited just to see if there is something I'm missing here.
Alright, now to read this thread, Reddit and google to get some more information. Though the amount of footage they had of all aspects shown was pretty insane.
I might be wrong here, but I think the documentary makers would need to be very careful who they implicated as potential murderers, or else they could end up facing a few lawsuits themselves...
HalfBakedProphet
Member
God damn, Brendan
Wowowow. There need to be much better protections in place for teens from manipulation during interrogations. He clearly wasn't aware of the weight of the situation
Yeah, I know I just admitted to the brutal rape and murder of a woman, but I need to hand in a school project in 6th period so lets wrap this thing up so I can get outta here, please?
Mutilation of a corpse and first-degree sexual assault without a single piece of tangible evidence against him.
Yeah, I know I just admitted to the brutal rape and murder of a woman, but I need to hand in a school project in 6th period so lets wrap this thing up so I can get outta here, please?
Audioboxer
Member
Can't get the series out of my head after finishing it. Not convinced
, but holy shit at some of the massive contradictions, lies, questionable force/police members... just everything. The complete lack of
was just.. what the fuck.
I sincerely hope in the years to come
. Whether it be from
, or something on the outside. It's good to see the series pretty much explode worldwide, has to put pressure
if there's things to come.
they aren't guilty
blood splatter/DNA/sweat evidence
I sincerely hope in the years to come
the truth is unveiled without a doubt
admittances from prison
on the truth coming out
Audioboxer
Member
It's more appealing to create a narrative against US police/chain of command. For understandable reasons, especially with all the police killings that go unpunished in the states. Then in this case itself it's obvious shitty things are being done by law enforcement.
It hurts the creators of the documentary, but their greater aim is to put the spotlight on the police forces which it certainly does extremely well. Given how popular the show has become and how much awareness it has raised, I'm sure the creators knew airing on the side of the Avery's would illicit a far louder response on social media/in conversation.
Pretty much this. After a few days, Brendan's fate is still sticking with me. Messed up.
I also had the same thought. Then I considered it from the point of view of the real culprits. Bringing up a lawsuit against the filmmakers would no doubt bring a lot of attention and scrutiny...
Fantastical
Death Prophet
Watch Paradise Lost to see this actually play out.
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