poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
"The filmmakers minimize or leave out many aspects of Averys less than savory past, including multiple alleged incidents of physical and sexual violence. "
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Making A Murderer - Netflix 10-part documentary series - S1 now streaming on Netflix
- Thread starter Armadilo
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hey_monkey
Banned
I've been on the sub - I was just wondering if anyone had bothered to make a chart. Would be interesting (and also a good visual tool in case of drive-by straw-graspers).
The only things really "left" out is that Avery may have sexually harrassed Halbach (which is only hearsay) and stuff relating to him being into bondage (which the crowd crying bias is willfully ignoring context surrounding that)
You could probably make a case that they do minimize Avery's past wrongdoings, but then that still ignores that the very first episode of the series spends a good amount of time outlining the fact that Avery was kind of a shit when he was younger. Even if they didn't go as much into detail about stuff, it's not like they tried hiding that from the viewer.
BronsonLee
Member
He's under no expectation of allowing due process. He's not in a courtroom. He isn't a lawyer. He is the brother of the victim.
To him, Brendan confessed, multiple times. That should be it, because to him, that's just fine. Why would he know the particulars surrounding it?
CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls
Banned
Finished eps. 8-10 this weekend and am still gathering my thoughts regarding Avery. Regardless of conspiracies, framing, etc., the biggest issue was the complete lack of a fair and balanced trial as well as a lack of oversight by the Wisconsin Supreme Court in regards to the apparent biases of Avery's original attorney and Judge Willis.
I'm certain that it was an Avery that killed Teresa, but I do not think for a second that Steven was the perpetrator. I won't go over the amount of ridiculous evidence that was used against him, but I will say that this was just a gross neglect of due process. I'm astounded--and scared--by what our justice system has become. Thank goodness for people like Buting and Strang who tried their damndest to reveal the attacks against Avery's character.
Also, that TMZ reveal with Avery's ex is coming at such a peculiar time. I'm sure some of it is cashing in on the popularity of the show, but I'm just Jodi thinks this can reveal Steven as some sort of abuser. My take is that he had a fetish which he wanted to explore but backed down when asked. I don't think we should extrapolate it to Brendan's incredibly convoluted, spoon-fed "confession."
Speaking of Brendan, I felt so bad for him when he reappeared in court after putting on all that weight. If that doesn't lend credence to the idea that he refused to eat because of being made fun of--and not because of some sort of wracking guilt--I don't know what will.
I'm certain that it was an Avery that killed Teresa, but I do not think for a second that Steven was the perpetrator. I won't go over the amount of ridiculous evidence that was used against him, but I will say that this was just a gross neglect of due process. I'm astounded--and scared--by what our justice system has become. Thank goodness for people like Buting and Strang who tried their damndest to reveal the attacks against Avery's character.
Also, that TMZ reveal with Avery's ex is coming at such a peculiar time. I'm sure some of it is cashing in on the popularity of the show, but I'm just Jodi thinks this can reveal Steven as some sort of abuser. My take is that he had a fetish which he wanted to explore but backed down when asked. I don't think we should extrapolate it to Brendan's incredibly convoluted, spoon-fed "confession."
Speaking of Brendan, I felt so bad for him when he reappeared in court after putting on all that weight. If that doesn't lend credence to the idea that he refused to eat because of being made fun of--and not because of some sort of wracking guilt--I don't know what will.
Both he and Jerry Buting are fucking awesome. Like, the coolest people I've ever seen on TV awesome.
Wow, this is actually pretty big. Everyone is coming out of the woodwork with conspiracies and alibis, but there must be some weight to this if the same Lawyer who defended Edwards indirect victims is now defending Avery.
Only if being a lawyer was actually like that. He is by far the exception not the rule.
AuthenticM
Member
I don't know if this has been posted, but a canadian lawyer is running a podcast discussing this case with a prosecutor and a former judge of the Supreme Court of Canada. It's called The Docket. Maybe check it out.
I'll have to check this out thanks. I'm still slugging through "Undisclosed" looking at the Adnan Sayez conviction in Baltimore that was covered in serial. The amount of shit in Baltimore police force is disturbing to say the least. I guess the Wire was pretty accurate in their portrayal.
fatigues_gasolini
Member
Fun fact: the second prosecutor, not Ken kratz, was my high schools mock trial coach. Our team came in second to last that year.
But how would Edwards get Avery's blood. The Cops did it? So you have two frame jobs?
Vampire On Titus
Member
It's honestly hard for for me to put too much stock in this theory beyond it being a fascinating curiosity. Looking at his website the former investigator, James Cameron (lol that's his real name) , essentially blames Ed Edwards for every popular unsolved murder in american history.
Edwards certainly traveled a lot and apparently there's some reason to suspect he may have been the Zodiac killer. But Cameron has pretty massive tunnel vision on this. Also a bad habit of speaking on his suspicions as fact. So far I couldn't find out if this Zellner exoneree was actually a victim of an Ed Edwards frame job or if James Cameron just believes him to be.
Edwards was definitely a fascinating criminal, though. He wrote some book about being a reformed man now living happily with a family, all the while still killing. He even appeared on a game show and definitely seemed fond of pulling weird stunts like this trying to be discovered. Apparently he professed to have killed 500 people. But only directly admitted to enough to get a death sentence.
It's somewhat interesting but there's only opportunity and speculation going for this theory. And I personally think Cameron is a far too out there with his claims.
It would still make the best follow up doc of all time if this was true
There are some good reasons to believe that evidence was being planted. The key obviously is the first thing to point at. Nothing about it makes sense. The bullet is almost as equally questionable.
The police could have been sure that Avery did it, and wanted to make sure they had enough to convict. It's not unheard of.
Glorious Ownage
Member
Agreed. The attorneys in serial season one left me extremely unimpressed. As a juror I would've had an issue with adnans attorney. She came off extremely grating and never seemed to make strong points that were succinct.
RustyNails
Member
"All due respect counsel, the state is supposed to start every criminal case swimming upstream. And the strong current against which the state is swimming is presumption of innocence." - Dean Strang
Atticus Finch level beat down. My jaw was on the floor.
zeioIIDX
Member
Good point/observation, I didn't even think about that...wow.
I agree. I had my share of shitty court affairs while going through my divorce in 2012. I swear I wanted to spontaneously combust due to how downright unfair and biased towards women/mothers the judge was and how nonchalant he was about the entire child custody thing. He gave off a vibe like he had better things to do with his day and he was very unprofessional, even started talking about some BBQ party with another attorney while we waited for someone to show up.
It wasn't until after the fact that I came to realize how incompetent my attorney was. He didn't explain everything to me and although at the time, I thought he was doing his best to help me win and get custody, I found out later that there was so much more he had at his disposal that we could have taken advantage of. He didn't even tell me that I had the option of taking this to trial (which is what I would have chose to do).
Anyway, sorry for the rant...sometimes I just really have to vent when I'm reminded of my divorce and everything that surrounded it. But yeah, Strang and Buting seem like genuinely decent people who just happen to be lawyers. Now maybe it's the way the documentary was filmed but those two seems to be incredibly open-minded, level-headed, and logical. Not to mention the fact that they showed compassion for Dassey. It felt like being in a nightmare while watching this when like...no one knew or cared about the ridiculous circumstances and blatant coercion that went on with him and the detectives as well as that scumbag O'Kelly or whoever. Apparently though, that footage wasn't shown to the jurors...for whatever damn reason.
Yeah I had the same reaction. I had to remind myself that he actually said all that and that it wasn't some Hollywood script
tycoonheart
Member
I wish I were as eloquent as Strang.
backflip10019
Member
Pretty sure I yelled out, "OH SHIT," during this part. Dude just absolutely crushed it.
CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls
Banned
Watching episode four.
I'm so physically repulsed by the prosecutors of Brendan. It's almost impossible to keep watching.
That reaction never ends. Ironically, you become numb toward it because it all becomes so expected.
I loved it. Unfortunately the point seemed to be lost on everyone in the courtroom, especially the jury and judge.
PRBoricua
Member
The jury wasn't present for the "swimming upstream" argument, they were called back in afterwards. But it was definitely lost on the judge.
The Ed Edwards theory had me rubbing my chin until, in another YouTube clip, he also infers he is the Zodiac killer.
There just doesn't seem to be any direct evidence linking him aside from the fact that "it sounds like something he'd do" and that he was finally arrested in a place less than two hours from the Avery's.
Not impossible, but I'd like to see something more concrete.
There just doesn't seem to be any direct evidence linking him aside from the fact that "it sounds like something he'd do" and that he was finally arrested in a place less than two hours from the Avery's.
Not impossible, but I'd like to see something more concrete.
Thanks for the clarification.
That's the thing that bothers me, tampering evidence to get a conviction is bad police work, if you know a guy did it but you lack evidence keep digging no crime is perfect there must be evidence around don't fabricate them
Holly shit here I was thinking this is bullshit, but then I see the guy has some grounds on this, and oh my if this is true mindblowing
(double post sorry)
I felt the same way. I feel like I've wasted my life and wish I could change careers.
And some people in this thread.
Nappuccino
Member
The people in this thread thing the justice system couldn't be wrong. Therefore, Avery is guilty.
Kinda scary.
Giant Panda
Member
I just finished EP 4 where the unveil the hole in the blood vial of Steve Avery. Holy fucking shit, I don't see any context in which isn't a huge red flag. On top of the 16 year old mentally retarded kid's railroaded confession. Gotta keep watching I guess to find out how this plays out.
HORRORSHØW
Member
the trial transcripts are available for your perusal thanks to the folks at reddit and various donors: http://www.stevenaverycase.org/jurytrialtranscripts/
Vampire On Titus
Member
Grimløck;192710531 said:
I dont expect to sleep!
hey_monkey
Banned
Tons of other new stuff on the subreddit, too. It's jumping today.
Haha, I like the Can-con theme song they've opted for: https://jeremyfisher.bandcamp.com/track/uh-oh-feat-serena-ryder
Did I miss something with Teresa blood? If he killed, stabbed and shot her where was the blood residue in huge quantities. Even if bleach was used, isn't there a test that can still detect blood splatter and residue? How could someone clean up that much blood properly
Also her sweat or other DNA of hers if she was chained up to a bed and raped?
Also her sweat or other DNA of hers if she was chained up to a bed and raped?
She wasn't killed where the prosecution says she was killed. That's the only explanation.
JaseMath
Member
Teresa had no blood in her body. She also didn't have DNA as we know it today. It explains the lack of blood and none of her own DNA on her very own car key.
I'm no scientician but shouldn't that alone be enough to prove the governments case wrong, evidence planted and that Avery is innocent. Like as a jury member that's the biggest damming evidence for his innocence
Even if cleaned I think a black Light will show some bodily fluid of any kind. I'm no forensic scientist but I believe I may be right.
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