Yeah even if Steven is guilty, no way she was killed in his trailer or garage. Which is a problem for the prosecution because if she wasn't killed there, the whole story kinda comes falling apart and the idea of planted evidence becomes much more plausible. Which is why they kept trying to find a way to place her inside those locations somehow.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Making A Murderer - Netflix 10-part documentary series - S1 now streaming on Netflix
- Thread starter Armadilo
- Start date
CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls
Banned
One of my lawyer FB friends has an idea that it was Scott Tadych and Bobby Dassey that committed the murder. They attempted to cover it up and stumbled into framing Steve for the murder. Interesting perspective. I know Tadych came off like a supreme asshole during the trial. Seems to be a major theory floating around, though.
Pretty much everyone the prosecution trotted out seemed like assholes during the trial. hell Teresa's brother was out for Avery blood and already thought both guilty before anything had started
Omnistalgic
Member
Insanity, all of it...only on episode 4, but my feelings are simply this, Avery is not a particular smart or good person, and the truth of his innocence in regards to the murder, is just irrelevant in light of the corruption from the justice department. It's just, wow, how many different forms of government have we tried? I feel like we will never get it together, humans are destined to just scheme each other forever, for the sake of our own advantage.
Nothing about any of this seeps one iota of justice. This family's life has already been over 20+years ago.
Nothing about any of this seeps one iota of justice. This family's life has already been over 20+years ago.
BronsonLee
Member
That tends to happen when the police arrest someone for your sister's murder
Omnistalgic
Member
I keep hearing radio advertising on ESPN for lawyers that will help fathers in custody cases. This is the extremes we get man, it's terrible. We go from one extreme to another, slavery to racism, to discrimination over anything. Zero rights, to second class citizens, to the abuse of women's right in custody trials. I feel ya pain bra...
Yeah but with so much blood rage he can't even see the forest for the trees of how botched the case was and how outlandish the"evidence" against Avery. I would be mad if my sister was killed but I would also want to find out the actual killer and let a man that seems innocent and seems railroaded by corruption be free, not to pay for a crime if he didn't do it.
Nappuccino
Member
I agree--he didn't have the same perception we get to have. That said, his wording about "let us grieve and move on . . . with Teresa in our lives" was weird as hell.
Oh, that's precious.
kavanf1
Member
The thing that sticks in my head the most is the brother and ex boyfriend in the second or third episode, and the way they arranged the searches etc. When the car was found, the way the brother and ex spoke was extremely stilted, and it felt like the brother had rehearsed it with the ex but kept interrupting him as if he couldn't trust him to stick to the story they'd arranged.
I need to go back and rewatch it to see if it's as weird as I remember it, but even after episode 10 it sticks out to me as really odd behaviour, especially when coupled with the comment about being able to grieve when at that point they (apparently) didn't even know for sure she was dead. That's the kind of thing you only say if you know someone is dead.
I need to go back and rewatch it to see if it's as weird as I remember it, but even after episode 10 it sticks out to me as really odd behaviour, especially when coupled with the comment about being able to grieve when at that point they (apparently) didn't even know for sure she was dead. That's the kind of thing you only say if you know someone is dead.
Nappuccino
Member
The lack of self-awareness is incredible.
bender
What time is it?
Weird but I don't but much stock in the brother's choice of words in his press conferences. Speaking on camera would make me say all sorts of weird stuff. That's putting aside that your sister is missing, I don't even want to pretend to be in his shoes.
On the other hand, I caught some seriously weird vibes from the ex-boyfriend especially during his testimony.
I went back and forth on Steve's guilt for the first four or so episodes. I'm not sure where I sit now but how the state handled the prosecution is maddening. I also feel incredibly sad for Brendon. Still need to watch the last episode.
BronsonLee
Member
On the face of it, the Avery trial probably didn't seem that blatantly corrupt to him. Couple that with the rage of seeing your sister's accused murderer constantly claiming he's innocent and framed, and lack of media training, and there you go.
Yeah, he didn't have the benefit of hindsight or having this documentary.
That last statement reads to me that someone is hoping for the best, but clearly expects the worst. She'd been missing for a few days at that point.
LSauchelli
Member
Some (maybe most?) people just want revenge and will blindly believe what a prosecutor or investigator tells them that happened. The fact that the brother didn't even bother to watch the confession video made me think that he didn't care much about the facts, because he already "knew" who the killer was.
just finished this, loved it.... I was reading that they left out a load of evidence from the trial
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...ery-the-netflic-show-missed-out-a6807961.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...ery-the-netflic-show-missed-out-a6807961.html
LSauchelli
Member
Yeah, I think most of what Kratz said has been disproven or challenged in some way. The stuff about her being creeped out by him and him meeting her in just a towel at least wasn't really true.
Applesauce
Boom! Bitch-slapped!
DNA is just DNA there's no way to determine if it's from sweat or not.
LSauchelli
Member
You're right:
http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/ev...former-district-attorneyken-kratzfor-con.html
Basically anything he says should be taking with a truck-load of salt.
That's easy to say more than a decade after the fact when you're not personally involved. Plus it's not like he was the lone dissenter, blinded by rage. Pretty much everyone at the time seemingly had their minds made up.
electroshockwave
Member
After Steven is found guilty Tadych apparently said something along the lines of "this is the best news ever". (Can't remember exact quote) Considering his step-son is charged with the same crime I find that such a strange reaction. Between that, the 22 gun he tried to sell later, him and Bobby being each other's alibis, and Bobby's testimony that had the wrong time saying he saw Teresa go to the trailer there's plenty to make him a suspect.
To be fair, Steven was found guilty after they had thrown out any part of Brendon's involvement, which only makes Brendon's later conviction even more nonsensical.
Glorious Ownage
Member
I agree if I was forced to guess it'd be them followed by them trying to hide it and then panicking and framing SA
Avery has launched a new appeal, saying he has ineffective councel and faulty search warrant. He also has a new lawyer the apprantely famous Kathleen Zellner who apprantely has evidence that will get him released
https://mobile.twitter.com/ZellnerLaw/status/686915077384069121?ref_src=twsrc^tfw
https://mobile.twitter.com/ZellnerLaw/status/686915077384069121?ref_src=twsrc^tfw
If he gets out he needs to sue Manitowoc again but this time move the fuck away from there before the cops go for the hattrick.
CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls
Banned
Wasn't Brendan's testimony/confession already known to the jurors during Steven's trial? Regardless of it was submittable, the jury had already been primed to Steven's guilt based simply off the erroneous testimony.
Not sure if this has been posted or not, but here's the directors' response to Jodi's accusations:
http://hellogiggles.com/making-a-murderer-directors-respond-averys-ex/
http://hellogiggles.com/making-a-murderer-directors-respond-averys-ex/
Not really much was left out. Don't listen to to Kratz.
Just read the sub-Reddit that lists all the evidence left out and all of it has been refuted.
Edit: sorry for the double post.
I just think it was really really weird to talk about needing to grieve when there isn't anything concrete saying she's dead yet. Sure, people behave differently, but I've never seen a family in this situation give up the even faint hope, that someone is still alive after only a couple of days.
Nappuccino
Member
ineffective counsel as in the two lawyers featured in the documentary? Or does this something else--those two were pretty amazing. I'm not well-versed in legalese.
Vincent Grayson
Member
It absolutely was, but there's a bit in the opening instructions to the jury where they say "Hey, it's your job to pretend you never heard that", or something to that effect. So, you know, problem solved.
Strang and Bueting said that Steven might be able to use that excuse to get an appeal. Obviously they don't think they did a bad job (and neither do I) but any loophole to help Steven get an appeal has to be considered.
Nappuccino
Member
I mean, thankfully because of the way the state tied Strang and Bueting's hands, I can see a viable argument.
That episode reminds me of Interstellar.
neurosisxeno
Member
It's possible, but the Judge was an asshole through and through. It never felt like the Prosecution had to really argue any points, the Judge just rolled over and gave them whatever they wanted. The Defense on the other hand had to scratch and claw and was essentially told "We're going to assume he's guilty unless you prove without a doubt that Manitowoc Sheriffs framed him". Which is absolutely insane.
rocketskates
Member
Has this been posted yet?
http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/news...-discuss-the-benefits-of-web-sleuths-20160119
http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/news...-discuss-the-benefits-of-web-sleuths-20160119
Haven't seen those photos before, but I have seen the manual for that car and the key they found was the spare. That was suspicious as hell in the first place, because it doesn't even work on all the locks in the vehicle.
Ziltoidia 9
Member
Anyone know when that picture was taken? People have already proven that the key found in Avery's bedroom was the car's valet key/spare key.
That's where I am. This shit is crazy.
ChronoSerge
Banned
Just watched it. I think it was either Bobby dassey and/or Tedych. Or I think it was Teresa's brother
Or the ex-boyfriend*
ChronoSerge
Banned
Yea him too.
Omnistalgic
Member
What is up with that ex boyfriend and brother looking crazy shady when asked about the lot? Looking to each other for answers, stuttering? I mean, is this real life?
Sometimes, I can't believe I'm not watching reality TV or a hoax, so many characters look dishonest it's baffling how anyone could not see the injustice here. And hey Avery is probably messed up in the head, who knows what he did, but this town is full of horseshit! Everyone has some type of agenda! I can't believe what I'm watching, they didn't coerce him into anything? How can the judge look at that tape and say that with a straight face?
This is next level conspiracy man...I mean at that point it's not about if Avery did anything wrong or not, I really just want to know what in the f happened here?
Sometimes, I can't believe I'm not watching reality TV or a hoax, so many characters look dishonest it's baffling how anyone could not see the injustice here. And hey Avery is probably messed up in the head, who knows what he did, but this town is full of horseshit! Everyone has some type of agenda! I can't believe what I'm watching, they didn't coerce him into anything? How can the judge look at that tape and say that with a straight face?
This is next level conspiracy man...I mean at that point it's not about if Avery did anything wrong or not, I really just want to know what in the f happened here?
hey_monkey
Banned
I've danced around it, but now I'm just gonna say it: every time you say "I think it was so-and-so," you're starting off on the same road the damned asshole cops went down. Not like you're planting evidence, but assuming based on very thin knowledge. Just wanted to put it out there. I get the urge, too, and there's some suspicious shit in the series, but far, far better to rail that none of these shady characters were ever investigated than to start pointing fingers.
/soapbox
/soapbox
Nappuccino
Member
I think it's fair to say "these people are suspicious and should have been investigated further" which is what (I hope) people really mean when they say "I think x did it."
But I definitely understand and appreciate your concern. Not everyone will read between the lines. Not everyone means between the lines.
Problem is that the cops didn't seem to look into any option except Avery. They don't need to plant any evidence, just not try so hard to make their choice stick.
Always-honest
Banned
Haha, exactly.
Similar threads
- Locked