Making A Murderer - Netflix 10-part documentary series - S1 now streaming on Netflix

yyzjohn said:
She wasn't killed where the prosecution says she was killed. That's the only explanation.
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Yeah even if Steven is guilty, no way she was killed in his trailer or garage. Which is a problem for the prosecution because if she wasn't killed there, the whole story kinda comes falling apart and the idea of planted evidence becomes much more plausible. Which is why they kept trying to find a way to place her inside those locations somehow.
 
One of my lawyer FB friends has an idea that it was Scott Tadych and Bobby Dassey that committed the murder. They attempted to cover it up and stumbled into framing Steve for the murder. Interesting perspective. I know Tadych came off like a supreme asshole during the trial. Seems to be a major theory floating around, though.
 
CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls said:
One of my lawyer FB friends has an idea that it was Scott Tadych and Bobby Dassey that committed the murder. They attempted to cover it up and stumbled into framing Steve for the murder. Interesting perspective. I know Tadych came off like a supreme asshole during the trial. Seems to be a major theory floating around, though.
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Pretty much everyone the prosecution trotted out seemed like assholes during the trial. hell Teresa's brother was out for Avery blood and already thought both guilty before anything had started
 
Insanity, all of it...only on episode 4, but my feelings are simply this, Avery is not a particular smart or good person, and the truth of his innocence in regards to the murder, is just irrelevant in light of the corruption from the justice department. It's just, wow, how many different forms of government have we tried? I feel like we will never get it together, humans are destined to just scheme each other forever, for the sake of our own advantage.

Nothing about any of this seeps one iota of justice. This family's life has already been over 20+years ago.
 
Apathy said:
Pretty much everyone the prosecution trotted out seemed like assholes during the trial. hell Teresa's brother was out for Avery blood and already thought both guilty before anything had started
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That tends to happen when the police arrest someone for your sister's murder
 
zeioIIDX said:
Good point/observation, I didn't even think about that...wow.



I agree. I had my share of shitty court affairs while going through my divorce in 2012. I swear I wanted to spontaneously combust due to how downright unfair and biased towards women/mothers the judge was and how nonchalant he was about the entire child custody thing. He gave off a vibe like he had better things to do with his day and he was very unprofessional, even started talking about some BBQ party with another attorney while we waited for someone to show up.

It wasn't until after the fact that I came to realize how incompetent my attorney was. He didn't explain everything to me and although at the time, I thought he was doing his best to help me win and get custody, I found out later that there was so much more he had at his disposal that we could have taken advantage of. He didn't even tell me that I had the option of taking this to trial (which is what I would have chose to do).

Anyway, sorry for the rant...sometimes I just really have to vent when I'm reminded of my divorce and everything that surrounded it. But yeah, Strang and Buting seem like genuinely decent people who just happen to be lawyers. Now maybe it's the way the documentary was filmed but those two seems to be incredibly open-minded, level-headed, and logical. Not to mention the fact that they showed compassion for Dassey. It felt like being in a nightmare while watching this when like...no one knew or cared about the ridiculous circumstances and blatant coercion that went on with him and the detectives as well as that scumbag O'Kelly or whoever. Apparently though, that footage wasn't shown to the jurors...for whatever damn reason.
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I keep hearing radio advertising on ESPN for lawyers that will help fathers in custody cases. This is the extremes we get man, it's terrible. We go from one extreme to another, slavery to racism, to discrimination over anything. Zero rights, to second class citizens, to the abuse of women's right in custody trials. I feel ya pain bra...
 
BronsonLee said:
That tends to happen when the police arrest someone for your sister's murder
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Yeah but with so much blood rage he can't even see the forest for the trees of how botched the case was and how outlandish the"evidence" against Avery. I would be mad if my sister was killed but I would also want to find out the actual killer and let a man that seems innocent and seems railroaded by corruption be free, not to pay for a crime if he didn't do it.
 
gutshot said:
So Colburn sent an email to a USA Today reporter who did a "where are they know" piece on the major players in the documentary.

I would like to personally admonish you for continuing to publish inaccurate information and for fueling the threats we continue to receive. Why don’t you take the time to thoroughly investigate ALL the readily available information before you publish your articles? I hope you are proud of the fact that you felt it was necessary to publish private information about Mr. Lenk’s residence, as he is now a citizen in poor health trying to live a quiet life away from this media circus. You should be ashamed of yourself. You know all these allegations against Mr. Lenk, myself and our agency are totally false, yet you continue to support these lies and exacerbate the problems they cause. Try and imagine if something serious happens to one of us or to a member of our families because of all the completely distorted and slanted information that is being published by subjects like yourself. Your lack of responsibility and your bias is appalling. I know the truth doesn’t sell newspapers as much as lies and controversy, but for once try thinking about the consequences of the slander and defamation that you are authoring and participating in. A word of caution, be careful what you wish for. If Steven Avery is ever freed, he may just become your neighbor, and he may want to bring his nephew with him.
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These guys are freaking insane.
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Oh, that's precious.
 
The thing that sticks in my head the most is the brother and ex boyfriend in the second or third episode, and the way they arranged the searches etc. When the car was found, the way the brother and ex spoke was extremely stilted, and it felt like the brother had rehearsed it with the ex but kept interrupting him as if he couldn't trust him to stick to the story they'd arranged.

I need to go back and rewatch it to see if it's as weird as I remember it, but even after episode 10 it sticks out to me as really odd behaviour, especially when coupled with the comment about being able to grieve when at that point they (apparently) didn't even know for sure she was dead. That's the kind of thing you only say if you know someone is dead.
 
Nappuccino said:
I agree--he didn't have the same perception we get to have. That said, his wording about "let us grieve and move on . . . with Teresa in our lives" was weird as hell.
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Weird but I don't but much stock in the brother's choice of words in his press conferences. Speaking on camera would make me say all sorts of weird stuff. That's putting aside that your sister is missing, I don't even want to pretend to be in his shoes.

On the other hand, I caught some seriously weird vibes from the ex-boyfriend especially during his testimony.

I went back and forth on Steve's guilt for the first four or so episodes. I'm not sure where I sit now but how the state handled the prosecution is maddening. I also feel incredibly sad for Brendon. Still need to watch the last episode.
 
Apathy said:
Yeah but with so much blood rage he can't even see the forest for the trees of how botched the case was and how outlandish the"evidence" against Avery. I would be mad if my sister was killed but I would also want to find out the actual killer and let a man that seems innocent and seems railroaded by corruption be free, not to pay for a crime if he didn't do it.
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On the face of it, the Avery trial probably didn't seem that blatantly corrupt to him. Couple that with the rage of seeing your sister's accused murderer constantly claiming he's innocent and framed, and lack of media training, and there you go.

Nappuccino said:
I agree--he didn't have the same perception we get to have. That said, his wording about "let us grieve and move on . . . with Teresa in our lives" was weird as hell.
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Yeah, he didn't have the benefit of hindsight or having this documentary.

That last statement reads to me that someone is hoping for the best, but clearly expects the worst. She'd been missing for a few days at that point.
 
Apathy said:
Yeah but with so much blood rage he can't even see the forest for the trees of how botched the case was and how outlandish the"evidence" against Avery. I would be mad if my sister was killed but I would also want to find out the actual killer and let a man that seems innocent and seems railroaded by corruption be free, not to pay for a crime if he didn't do it.
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Some (maybe most?) people just want revenge and will blindly believe what a prosecutor or investigator tells them that happened. The fact that the brother didn't even bother to watch the confession video made me think that he didn't care much about the facts, because he already "knew" who the killer was.
 
Apathy said:
Yeah but with so much blood rage he can't even see the forest for the trees of how botched the case was and how outlandish the"evidence" against Avery. I would be mad if my sister was killed but I would also want to find out the actual killer and let a man that seems innocent and seems railroaded by corruption be free, not to pay for a crime if he didn't do it.
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That's easy to say more than a decade after the fact when you're not personally involved. Plus it's not like he was the lone dissenter, blinded by rage. Pretty much everyone at the time seemingly had their minds made up.
 
CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls said:
One of my lawyer FB friends has an idea that it was Scott Tadych and Bobby Dassey that committed the murder. They attempted to cover it up and stumbled into framing Steve for the murder. Interesting perspective. I know Tadych came off like a supreme asshole during the trial. Seems to be a major theory floating around, though.
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After Steven is found guilty Tadych apparently said something along the lines of "this is the best news ever". (Can't remember exact quote) Considering his step-son is charged with the same crime I find that such a strange reaction. Between that, the 22 gun he tried to sell later, him and Bobby being each other's alibis, and Bobby's testimony that had the wrong time saying he saw Teresa go to the trailer there's plenty to make him a suspect.
 
electroshockwave said:
After Steven is found guilty Tadych apparently said something along the lines of "this is the best news ever". (Can't remember exact quote) Considering his step-son is charged with the same crime I find that such a strange reaction. Between that, the 22 gun he tried to sell later, him and Bobby being each other's alibis, and Bobby's testimony that had the wrong time saying he saw Teresa go to the trailer there's plenty to make him a suspect.
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To be fair, Steven was found guilty after they had thrown out any part of Brendon's involvement, which only makes Brendon's later conviction even more nonsensical.
 
electroshockwave said:
After Steven is found guilty Tadych apparently said something along the lines of "this is the best news ever". (Can't remember exact quote) Considering his step-son is charged with the same crime I find that such a strange reaction. Between that, the 22 gun he tried to sell later, him and Bobby being each other's alibis, and Bobby's testimony that had the wrong time saying he saw Teresa go to the trailer there's plenty to make him a suspect.
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I agree if I was forced to guess it'd be them followed by them trying to hide it and then panicking and framing SA
 
KarmaCow said:
To be fair, Steven was found guilty after they had thrown out any part of Brendon's involvement, which only makes Brendon's later conviction even more nonsensical.
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Wasn't Brendan's testimony/confession already known to the jurors during Steven's trial? Regardless of it was submittable, the jury had already been primed to Steven's guilt based simply off the erroneous testimony.
 
bender said:
Weird but I don't but much stock in the brother's choice of words in his press conferences. Speaking on camera would make me say all sorts of weird stuff. That's putting aside that your sister is missing, I don't even want to pretend to be in his shoes.

On the other hand, I caught some seriously weird vibes from the ex-boyfriend especially during his testimony.

I went back and forth on Steve's guilt for the first four or so episodes. I'm not sure where I sit now but how the state handled the prosecution is maddening. I also feel incredibly sad for Brendon. Still need to watch the last episode.
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I just think it was really really weird to talk about needing to grieve when there isn't anything concrete saying she's dead yet. Sure, people behave differently, but I've never seen a family in this situation give up the even faint hope, that someone is still alive after only a couple of days.
 
CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls said:
Wasn't Brendan's testimony/confession already known to the jurors during Steven's trial? Regardless of it was submittable, the jury had already been primed to Steven's guilt based simply off the erroneous testimony.
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It absolutely was, but there's a bit in the opening instructions to the jury where they say "Hey, it's your job to pretend you never heard that", or something to that effect. So, you know, problem solved.
 
Nappuccino said:
ineffective counsel as in the two lawyers featured in the documentary? Or does this something else--those two were pretty amazing. I'm not well-versed in legalese.
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Strang and Bueting said that Steven might be able to use that excuse to get an appeal. Obviously they don't think they did a bad job (and neither do I) but any loophole to help Steven get an appeal has to be considered.
 
saunderez said:
Strang and Bueting said that Steven might be able to use that excuse to get an appeal. Obviously they don't think they did a bad job (and neither do I) but any loophole to help Steven get an appeal has to be considered.
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I mean, thankfully because of the way the state tied Strang and Bueting's hands, I can see a viable argument.
 
Nappuccino said:
I mean, thankfully because of the way the state tied Strang and Bueting's hands, I can see a viable argument.
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It's possible, but the Judge was an asshole through and through. It never felt like the Prosecution had to really argue any points, the Judge just rolled over and gave them whatever they wanted. The Defense on the other hand had to scratch and claw and was essentially told "We're going to assume he's guilty unless you prove without a doubt that Manitowoc Sheriffs framed him". Which is absolutely insane.
 
Has this been posted yet?
http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/news...-discuss-the-benefits-of-web-sleuths-20160119

One thing web users uncovered that surprised Buting was a photo of victim Teresa Halbach with a keychain that had many keys on it. In the investigation of Halbach's murder, police had found the key to the woman's vehicle in Avery's bedroom – but it was only one key on a fob, and the comparison to the photo could have strengthened the case that someone had planted the single key there.

"I've looked at that picture a thousand times," Buting says. "Those other keys were never recovered. Instead we found this single key. Now we did challenge that, how unusual it was for her to be walking around with one key, but I don't think I caught the fact that there was a photograph showing that what she really carried around was a bunch of keys, and none of those keys were ever found."
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Teresa_Halbach8217s_Family_8216Making_a-6bbf66721543b836925f5f6a7508c9fa.jpg


TeresaKeys.gif
 
Watching it now and I'm at the start of episode 4.

The police picked the perfect pawn with the nephew. Dumb as bricks, feel bad for the kid.
 
What is up with that ex boyfriend and brother looking crazy shady when asked about the lot? Looking to each other for answers, stuttering? I mean, is this real life?

Sometimes, I can't believe I'm not watching reality TV or a hoax, so many characters look dishonest it's baffling how anyone could not see the injustice here. And hey Avery is probably messed up in the head, who knows what he did, but this town is full of horseshit! Everyone has some type of agenda! I can't believe what I'm watching, they didn't coerce him into anything? How can the judge look at that tape and say that with a straight face?

This is next level conspiracy man...I mean at that point it's not about if Avery did anything wrong or not, I really just want to know what in the f happened here?
 
I've danced around it, but now I'm just gonna say it: every time you say "I think it was so-and-so," you're starting off on the same road the damned asshole cops went down. Not like you're planting evidence, but assuming based on very thin knowledge. Just wanted to put it out there. I get the urge, too, and there's some suspicious shit in the series, but far, far better to rail that none of these shady characters were ever investigated than to start pointing fingers.

/soapbox
 
hey_monkey said:
I've danced around it, but now I'm just gonna say it: every time you say "I think it was so-and-so," you're starting off on the same road the damned asshole cops went down. Not like you're planting evidence, but assuming based on very thin knowledge. Just wanted to put it out there. I get the urge, too, and there's some suspicious shit in the series, but far, far better to rail that none of these shady characters were ever investigated than to start pointing fingers.

/soapbox
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I think it's fair to say "these people are suspicious and should have been investigated further" which is what (I hope) people really mean when they say "I think x did it."

But I definitely understand and appreciate your concern. Not everyone will read between the lines. Not everyone means between the lines.
 
I'm sorry but *episode 4 spoilers*
"If we wanted to eliminate him, it would have been easier to kill him."
.

How the fuck is this guy in charge?!
 
hey_monkey said:
I've danced around it, but now I'm just gonna say it: every time you say "I think it was so-and-so," you're starting off on the same road the damned asshole cops went down. Not like you're planting evidence, but assuming based on very thin knowledge. Just wanted to put it out there. I get the urge, too, and there's some suspicious shit in the series, but far, far better to rail that none of these shady characters were ever investigated than to start pointing fingers.

/soapbox
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Problem is that the cops didn't seem to look into any option except Avery. They don't need to plant any evidence, just not try so hard to make their choice stick.
 
Omnistalgic said:
What is up with that ex boyfriend and brother looking crazy shady when asked about the lot? Looking to each other for answers, stuttering? I mean, is this real life?

Sometimes, I can't believe I'm not watching reality TV or a hoax, so many characters look dishonest it's baffling how anyone could not see the injustice here. And hey Avery is probably messed up in the head, who knows what he did, but this town is full of horseshit! Everyone has some type of agenda! I can't believe what I'm watching, they didn't coerce him into anything? How can the judge look at that tape and say that with a straight face?

This is next level conspiracy man...I mean at that point it's not about if Avery did anything wrong or not, I really just want to know what in the f happened here?
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Haha, exactly.
 
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