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[neurosisxeno]

The documentary certainly forces the viewer to make a pretty big leap in logic to believe that a conveniently placed smudge of blood in the car AND the keys in plain sight would be authentic points of evidence. It was almost comical how perfectly placed everything was.

That's because they had already checked the house and not found the key. It's inbelievable that if it was in plain sight like the picture shows, someone would have immediately noticed it on an initial walk through. And there's a picture from the first search and the slippers are closer to the bookcase and there's no key present--especially not out in the open.

 

[FrenchMovieTheme]

That's because they had already checked the house and not found the key. It's inbelievable that if it was in plain sight like the picture shows, someone would have immediately noticed it on an initial walk through.

They said they "shook the desk" later and it fell out

 

[neurosisxeno]

They said they "shook the desk" later and it fell out

Fell out of where? Their pockets lol?

 

[FrenchMovieTheme]

Fell out of where? Their pockets lol?

From one of the drawers or something? Lol its fucking stupid

 

[elproducto]

Halfway through and loving this. The defense lawyers are total ballers, love those guys.

 

[neurosisxeno]

Halfway through and loving this. The defense lawyers are total ballers, love those guys.

They are very good, but they are faced with proving he near impossible...

 

[Aarglefarg]

I just had to post and echo everyone thoughts. I've never been more angry throughout watching a piece of media as I was watching this. Thankfully I hope that somehow -real- justice is served after this documentary has been released.

Side point: I'm really interested in knowing how this series came to be made. I mean,

Spoiler

very little progress has been made since the second convictions.

So I find it surprising that this series hasn't been released or used up until now. The amount of footage and effort put into this over the years is astonishing.

This caused me to be disappointed in later episodes. I expected more of a follow up about the later years than we got

 

[ZQQLANDER]

After thinking about this way too much the past couple days I believe Stephen Avery was guilty. In my mind the totality of the evidence pointed in his direction.

Spoiler

I suspect Stephen killed Teresa Halbach and partially burned her body at the quarry burn location. Then completed burning her body in the burn pit near his house.

Brendan on the other hand is a different story. At most I think he went over to Stephen's house and helped round up random shit for the bonfire.

 

[criesofthepast]

The judge is equally a fucking moron. Oh man Colborn is a snake...that face. And guess what? He is the lead detective now in Manitowoc. Scary.

 

[Vampire On Titus]

The judge is equally a fucking moron. Oh man Colborn is a snake...that face. And guess what? He is the lead detective now in Manitowoc. Scary.

Honestly as an Avery still living in that community I would be constantly afraid for my safety. Watching the series and getting some insight as to the attitudes of the communities populace from 1st and 2nd hand accounts in this thread... It's extremely frightening. It seems like they hated Steven the most because of the embarrassment of his exoneration. But who knows exactly how deeply that disdain runs?

Honestly it'd be impossible to feel safe in general knowing how prone to corruption the law enforcement in that county is.

 

[KarmaCow]

After thinking about this way too much the past couple days I believe Stephen Avery was guilty. In my mind the totality of the evidence pointed in his direction.

Spoiler

I suspect Stephen killed Teresa Halbach and partially burned her body at the quarry burn location. Then completed burning her body in the burn pit near his house.

Brendan on the other hand is a different story. At most I think he went over to Stephen's house and helped round up random shit for the bonfire.

The biggest thing for me is ep8 spoilers

Spoiler

the complete lack of blood. He didn't kill her in the bedroom, even the prosecution gives up on the Brendon story. If he killed her in the garage, there should be some trace of blood besides the bullet which didn't have visible blood. If he killed her elsewhere, like say the gravel pit, it would be weird for femur bones to be left behind and why would the bullet be in his garage? Another thing that I can't really reconcile is the lack of motive. Even accepting that he was sketchy in the eyes of the community that's not enough to say he would randomly kill someone.

 

[UltimaPooh]

After thinking about this way too much the past couple days I believe Stephen Avery was guilty. In my mind the totality of the evidence pointed in his direction.

Spoiler

I suspect Stephen killed Teresa Halbach and partially burned her body at the quarry burn location. Then completed burning her body in the burn pit near his house.

Brendan on the other hand is a different story. At most I think he went over to Stephen's house and helped round up random shit for the bonfire.

Spoiler

Why would he burn her at the quary... Then bring the evidence back to hisbland to burn?

 

[Always-honest]

Just finished it. Holy shit.
I actually started to hate some of the people in this documentairy. I can't believe what i witnessed.

i guess there will be a season 2 someday....

 

[FrenchMovieTheme]

After thinking about this way too much the past couple days I believe Stephen Avery was guilty. In my mind the totality of the evidence pointed in his direction.

Spoiler

I suspect Stephen killed Teresa Halbach and partially burned her body at the quarry burn location. Then completed burning her body in the burn pit near his house.

Brendan on the other hand is a different story. At most I think he went over to Stephen's house and helped round up random shit for the bonfire.

based on what? a lot of the "evidence" makes absolutely no sense. he may have killed her, i don't know, but unless there is some major piece of evidence we didn't see in the documentary there is no way you can say he is guilty without a reasonable doubt

 

[cowboyz89]

I would also love to hear about this totality of evidence that Zqqlander is claiming. Big talk with nothing substantial there. Maybe he is the lead prosecutor from the case.

 

[neurosisxeno]

After thinking about this way too much the past couple days I believe Stephen Avery was guilty. In my mind the totality of the evidence pointed in his direction

Spoiler

But the issue is all that evidence was collectedfound by the people who weren't supposed to be involved with the case. Not to mention the lack of DNA on various items--none of Teresa's DNA was found in Averys house or on her key--which she had handled daily for years--and none of Averys DNA other than the blood spots was found inside her car--no fingerprints or hair or even something like grease from his hands. They also claimed her throat was cut which causes massive blood loss and there was no blood found in the room she was allegedly held in.

He only evidence they really had was Teresa's car key in Averys house, her car in their salvage yard, his blood in her car, and her remains that had signs of being moved in his yard. All of these things are easily plantable.

 

[KarmaCow]

based on what? a lot of the "evidence" makes absolutely no sense. he may have killed her, i don't know, but unless there is some major piece of evidence we didn't see in the documentary there is no way you can say he is guilty without a reasonable doubt

I don't think it's nearly enough to say he did it but (ep 8 spoilers)

Spoiler

if you accept that the blood in the car didn't come from the vial, there's no good excuse in his favour for why his blood would be in the car. That said, the blood itself makes little sense. The idea that he would be bleeding profusely enough to have multiple locations for blood including right next to the ignition but like the lawyers said, none of his finger prints in the car is suspect. Though they didn't bring it up in the documentary during the trial so I assume there was something about that we're missing.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

I don't think it's nearly enough to say he did it but (ep 8 spoilers)

Spoiler

if you accept that the blood in the car didn't come from the vial, there's no good excuse in his favour for why his blood would be in the car. That said, the blood itself makes little sense. The idea that he would be bleeding profusely enough to have multiple locations for blood including right next to the ignition but like the lawyers said, none of his finger prints in the car is suspect. Though they didn't bring it up in the documentary during the trial so I assume there was something about that we're missing.

Spoiler

Well they didn't say it didn't come from the vial, they said that depending on how the FBI's test was calibrated it could show an absence of EDTA even if there was some present in the blood. Not to mention, it was crazy obvious the key was planted. It ONLY had Steven's DNA on it? Not the owner who had been handling it daily for who knows how long???

 

[KarmaCow]

Spoiler

Well they didn't say it didn't come from the vial, they said that depending on how the FBI's test was calibrated it could show an absence of EDTA even if there was some present in the blood. Not to mention, it was crazy obvious the key was planted. It ONLY had Steven's DNA on it? Not the owner who had been handling it daily for who knows how long???

Spoiler

I'm with you but I can see how someone would accept the FBI's test as solid proof, especially with how the defense kinda floundered when questioning the FBI agent. And for the key DNA, that seemingly wasn't brought up during trial either, just the suspect nature of how it showed up so again there might be more to it.

 

[FrenchMovieTheme]

I don't think it's nearly enough to say he did it but (ep 8 spoilers)

Spoiler

if you accept that the blood in the car didn't come from the vial, there's no good excuse in his favour for why his blood would be in the car. That said, the blood itself makes little sense. The idea that he would be bleeding profusely enough to have multiple locations for blood including right next to the ignition but like the lawyers said, none of his finger prints in the car is suspect. Though they didn't bring it up in the documentary during the trial so I assume there was something about that we're missing.

but the thing is none of that makes sense.

Spoiler

why would his blood be there? lets say he has a struggle with her of some type in the car... why was there blood "spots" in different areas? so she cuts him somehow (which the blood spots are consistent with a wound of that type but fine), then he gets blood in the front, then why is there blood on the back door area too? why would the car have been involved with her murder at all?

as you said there are no finger prints and THEN comes the fact that he works at a storage facility.... why would he store a vehicle there with his blood in it from someone that he killed!? anything is possible, and there have been killers who were dumb as fuck in the past, but this dude just got out of jail after 18 years for a crime he didn't commit. why would he risk storing all of the evidence at his residence/business for a crime he DID commit? he's already seen what happens to him when the cops in that town have no evidence at all, what would he expect to happen with this mountain of obvious evidence?

 

[ZQQLANDER]

I would also love to hear about this totality of evidence that Zqqlander is claiming. Big talk with nothing substantial there. Maybe he is the lead prosecutor from the case.

I figured my opinion is in the minority here, but come on dude don't compare me to some sleaze lawyer. Challenge my opinion, fine, but do it in a mature manner like some of the above posters.

Spoiler

Considering that bones were found in several locations around his property, bullet in the garage, vehicle with his blood as well as hers, and the key. How did all of these different pieces of evidence come to be on the property if Avery didn't kill her? Cops planted some of the evidence and the killer, knowing the cops held a grudge, got onto Avery's property and deposited the rest? Why would the Lenk risk his employment as a law enforcement officer to plant evidence on Avery? The 36 million in possible settlement isn't coming out of his pocket. If he believes Avery is really the culprit, why would he plant evidence? I just don't see how it's plausible all of these different pieces of evidence wound up on Avery's property if he didn't do it.

Maybe he didn't kill her in the garage, but didn't a poster earlier in this thread say the prosecutors brought forward testimony from a nephew who helped bleach Avery's garage? They also presented his jeans as evidence as they had bleach stains on them.

I think Avery burned the body in the quarry burn pit because (a) blood stains in Teresa's vehicle showed her body had been in there so it was moved at some point(b) I can only imagine how bad a burning body must smell so why not do it further away from your house.

A lot of people are posing rationale questions as to why Stephen did or didn't do something. I think it's important to remember you aren't going to batting a thousand in the rationale choice department after you kill someone. Possibly an explanation for why things don't line up logically.

 

[Beerman462]

Is it just me or does the theme song sound like Game of Thrones?

 

[wachie]

They are very good, but they are faced with proving he near impossible...

Spoiler

And they did prove the near impossible, remember the initial jury votes. The whole thing was slanted in favor of the prosecution, including the judge. Even if they did prove the water was wet, somehow the veedict would have been NO.

 

[Applesauce]

One of the defense lawyers sounds kind of like Saul Goodman.

 

[Dawg]

Saw just the first episode and my blood is already boiling.

Don't really want to see the rest, though. I have a feeling I know what I can expect by now and another 11 hours of content seems too much.

 

[DietRob]

Is it just me or does the theme song sound like Game of Thrones?

The shots in the opening kinda reminded me of season 1 of true detective.

 

[FrenchMovieTheme]

I figured my opinion is in the minority here, but come on dude don't compare me to some sleaze lawyer. Challenge my opinion, fine, but do it in a mature manner like some of the above posters.

Spoiler

Considering that bones were found in several locations around his property, bullet in the garage, vehicle with his blood as well as hers, and the key. How did all of these different pieces of evidence come to be on the property if Avery didn't kill her? Cops planted some of the evidence and the killer, knowing the cops held a grudge, got onto Avery's property and deposited the rest? Why would the Lenk risk his employment as a law enforcement officer to plant evidence on Avery? The 36 million in possible settlement isn't coming out of his pocket. If he believes Avery is really the culprit, why would he plant evidence? I just don't see how it's plausible all of these different pieces of evidence wound up on Avery's property if he didn't do it.

Maybe he didn't kill her in the garage, but didn't a poster earlier in this thread say the prosecutors brought forward testimony from a nephew who helped bleach Avery's garage? They also presented his jeans as evidence as they had bleach stains on them.

I think Avery burned the body in the quarry burn pit because (a) blood stains in Teresa's vehicle showed her body had been in there so it was moved at some point(b) I can only imagine how bad a burning body must smell so why not do it further away from your house.

Spoiler

1. the bullet in his garage was not found until 4 or 5 months AFTER they initially turned the place upside down. the bullet was apparently just sitting there on the ground. how was this possibly missed up front?

2. ok so he is smart enough to bleach the fuck out of the garage and elsewhere (presumably?). but they dug up the concrete as well and found nothing. and if he was smart enough to bleach his garage, he had to know he needed to hide the evidence, how the fuck would he leave her car on his impound yard WITH his blood in it!? "welp the cops are going to be coming around so i better bleach this shit.... ill just put some debris near her car so it looks inconspicuous."

3. as for lenk and the others, its as was said in the documentary: they truly believed steven was responsible and fit the evidence in afterwards. they didn't believe he was innocent and said lets frame an innocent man. they believed he was guilty from the beginning and said lets make sure we have enough evidence, whether its legit or not, to nail this fucker this time.

4. as for the nephews testimony, it was already shown it wasn't consistent

5. as for burning the body.... again, why burn part of it at the quarry and the rest back at his home? that makes no sense

 

[neurosisxeno]

I figured my opinion is in the minority here, but come on dude don't compare me to some sleaze lawyer. Challenge my opinion, fine, but do it in a mature manner like some of the above posters.

Spoiler

Considering that bones were found in several locations around his property, bullet in the garage, vehicle with his blood as well as hers, and the key. How did all of these different pieces of evidence come to be on the property if Avery didn't kill her? Cops planted some of the evidence and the killer, knowing the cops held a grudge, got onto Avery's property and deposited the rest? Why would the Lenk risk his employment as a law enforcement officer to plant evidence on Avery? The 36 million in possible settlement isn't coming out of his pocket. If he believes Avery is really the culprit, why would he plant evidence? I just don't see how it's plausible all of these different pieces of evidence wound up on Avery's property if he didn't do it.

Spoiler

The bones were found in 2 locations, the burn pit and the quarry. All the stuff was on his property because it was probably planted. Why would someone who worked there for years and knew how to crush cars park it under some branches and a piece of sheet metal. As I said above, almost all the evidence can easily be explained away. The key wasn't seen during the initial search by the neighboring county, only when Mantowoc County got involved did they find a majority of their evidence.

Spoiler

Maybe he didn't kill her in the garage, but didn't a poster earlier in this thread say the prosecutors brought forward testimony from a nephew who helped bleach Avery's garage? They also presented his jeans as evidence as they had bleach stains on them.

I think Avery burned the body in the quarry burn pit because (a) blood stains in Teresa's vehicle showed her body had been in there so it was moved at some point(b) I can only imagine how bad a burning body must smell so why not do it further away from your house.

Spoiler

The States case was that he restrained and killed her in his house, then burned her body under the guise of a bonfire. That already conflicts with your statement. The only way all the evidence fits is if Avery kills her in the garage, moves the body to the quarry and burns it, then moves the remains to the bonfire, and parks her car several acres away in the back of the lot then walks back. But he was accounted for for most of the night, and the states actual timeline is a mess--especially when you factor in his calls with Jodi. Oh, and my favorite part, the initial searches of the garage didn't turn up she'll casings or bullets--and its worth noting the test on the bullet should have been inadmissible.

That's an insanely sloppy job, which when combined with the lack of his physical evidence in the car aside from the blood spots, already created reasonable doubt to most unbiased observers.

The Judge deserves so much flak it's ridiculous. 11 o te Jurors had negative views of Steven before the trial even started, and something like 7 of them openly said they thought he was guilty or certain he was guilty. How does any reasonable Judge let that Jury stay?

 

[FrenchMovieTheme]

and dont forget this little test the FBI did

Spoiler

apparently wasn't able to be completed until well after the trial would have ended.... but then magically they figure out a way to do it in 2 weeks. but what was this test? what went into it? what is the margin for error? the other lady the defense brought in says that it would only tell you if there was a lack of EDTA in that test, not that the blood lacked EDTA period.

then there is all the other shit like the other DNA test that should've been inconclusive because it was tainted but the police told the girl to "put him in the garage" or whatever it was. shady as fuck

 

[KarmaCow]

but the thing is none of that makes sense.

Spoiler

why would his blood be there? lets say he has a struggle with her of some type in the car... why was there blood "spots" in different areas? so she cuts him somehow (which the blood spots are consistent with a wound of that type but fine), then he gets blood in the front, then why is there blood on the back door area too? why would the car have been involved with her murder at all?

as you said there are no finger prints and THEN comes the fact that he works at a storage facility.... why would he store a vehicle there with his blood in it from someone that he killed!? anything is possible, and there have been killers who were dumb as fuck in the past, but this dude just got out of jail after 18 years for a crime he didn't commit. why would he risk storing all of the evidence at his residence/business for a crime he DID commit? he's already seen what happens to him when the cops in that town have no evidence at all, what would he expect to happen with this mountain of obvious evidence?

ep8 spoilers

Spoiler

Like I said I agree it makes little sense for his blood to be there but it's there. At the very least it if you accept that it's not from the vial then he was in that car for some reason and lied about that. Again, not enough to say he did it especially since it doesn't even fit prosecution's timeline but there's no good reason for him for his blood to be there.

I figured my opinion is in the minority here, but come on dude don't compare me to some sleaze lawyer. Challenge my opinion, fine, but do it in a mature manner like some of the above posters.

Spoiler

Considering that bones were found in several locations around his property, bullet in the garage, vehicle with his blood as well as hers, and the key. How did all of these different pieces of evidence come to be on the property if Avery didn't kill her? Cops planted some of the evidence and the killer, knowing the cops held a grudge, got onto Avery's property and deposited the rest? Why would the Lenk risk his employment as a law enforcement officer to plant evidence on Avery? The 36 million in possible settlement isn't coming out of his pocket. If he believes Avery is really the culprit, why would he plant evidence? I just don't see how it's plausible all of these different pieces of evidence wound up on Avery's property if he didn't do it.

Maybe he didn't kill her in the garage, but didn't a poster earlier in this thread say the prosecutors brought forward testimony from a nephew who helped bleach Avery's garage? They also presented his jeans as evidence as they had bleach stains on them.

I think Avery burned the body in the quarry burn pit because (a) blood stains in Teresa's vehicle showed her body had been in there so it was moved at some point(b) I can only imagine how bad a burning body must smell so why not do it further away from your house.

ep8 spoilers

Spoiler

There isn't that much evidence, the bullet, the key, the car, and the body.

The bullet doesn't make sense. Why is it in the garage if she was killed elsewhere? If she was killed the garage with all that shit, some blood would have been left. They never present anyone in the Avery family as particularly smart, certainly not enough to do such a thorough cleaning of that mess of a garage such that there was no trace. Further if he was that meticulous, he then leaves gobs of visible blood in the car and leaves the car itself on the property?

Another thing is that he keeps the key in his bedroom, why? Like the bullet, it was never found in all the searches before this until months later, and if you believe the prosecution's story, it somehow fell from behind the bookcase under the slipper.

The car maybe the strongest piece, especially if you accept the FBI's test as incontrovertible proof but alone it's not enough for me since it's also full of holes.

As for the body, if he was either worried about the smell or the fact that the corpse of his victim would be little a few steps from his window why would he bring it from the gravel pit?

For why Lenk would go this above and beyond, why would he impose himself on the investigation when he already in a case questioning his motives the last time Avery was in jail? I don't think Lenk was being sadistic in that he wanted to make sure an innocent person rotted in jail, he and the rest of the department felt like he was guilty of at least some crime even if it wasn't this one. They had basically free reign over the entire lot for eight days. It doesn't require both counties worth of police to be in on it, just enough to either not be looking or straight up looking away.

I don't think you need believe Avery didn't do it but I just don't think there's enough to say he did. The both timeline the prosecution presents and your own version has too many glaring holes.

 

[JumpJeff84]

Regarding the 35 million, it kinda WAS gonna come out of the police's pocket. They mention that the payout wasn't gonna be covered by insurance.

Paying Avery he 35 million probably woulda completely bankrupted the county police, if that's even possible.

 

[ZQQLANDER]

Spoiler

1. the bullet in his garage was not found until 4 or 5 months AFTER they initially turned the place upside down. the bullet was apparently just sitting there on the ground. how was this possibly missed up front?

2. ok so he is smart enough to bleach the fuck out of the garage and elsewhere (presumably?). but they dug up the concrete as well and found nothing. and if he was smart enough to bleach his garage, he had to know he needed to hide the evidence, how the fuck would he leave her car on his impound yard WITH his blood in it!? "welp the cops are going to be coming around so i better bleach this shit.... ill just put some debris near her car so it looks inconspicuous."

3. as for lenk and the others, its as was said in the documentary: they truly believed steven was responsible and fit the evidence in afterwards. they didn't believe he was innocent and said lets frame an innocent man. they believed he was guilty from the beginning and said lets make sure we have enough evidence, whether its legit or not, to nail this fucker this time.

4. as for the nephews testimony, it was already shown it wasn't consistent

5. as for burning the body.... again, why burn part of it at the quarry and the rest back at his home? that makes no sense

Spoiler

1. The police had to search the premise how many times? Like eight? The documentary already showed investigators were incompetent so I wouldn't put it past them to have to do something multiple times to get it right.

2. Maybe it's as simple as he forgot to clean down the car or he thought he already did. His first thought is going to be to clean up the site where she was killed.

3. The county's actions were egregiously deplorable during the first sexual assault which caused Stephen to be wrongfully incarcerated. However, I think there is a difference between that and creating a conspiracy to plant physical evidence on someone.

4. didn't know his testimony was inconsistent. Was it Brendan Dassey inconsistent or were there minor inconsistencies?

5. Maybe Avery used burn barrels he got from his property to transport the remains from the quarry location to his house. He dumped some of the remains into his fire pit and started another bonfire. However, he didn't dump out all of the remains and some were left in the bottom of the drum.

Anyone think there will be a season 2?

 

[FrenchMovieTheme]

ep8 spoilers

Spoiler

Like I said I agree it makes little sense for his blood to be there but it's there. At the very least it if you accept that it's not from the vial then he was in that car for some reason and lied about that. Again, not enough to say he did it especially since it doesn't even fit prosecution's timeline but there's no good reason for him for his blood to be there.

Spoiler

but the thing is how can you believe that blood isn't from the vial without reasonable doubt? he has blood on file with the police. the housing the vile was in has been tampered with and there is a syringe hole in the top of the vial.... i guess just coincidentally!? can't buy that

 

[wachie]

Regarding the 35 million, it kinda WAS gonna come out of the police's pocket. They mention that the payout wasn't gonna be covered by insurance.

Paying Avery he 35 million probably woulda completely bankrupted the county police, if that's even possible.

ZQQLANDER needs a rewatch.

 

[Dragon]

This may sound kinda asinine but I don't think Steven was smart enough to kill someone in his home and leave the amount of traces that he did.

If he's able to clean the bedroom of all the blood, he would not have left that key at all. Not to mention leaving the car on the property.

 

[KarmaCow]

Spoiler

but the thing is how can you believe that blood isn't from the vial without reasonable doubt? he has blood on file with the police. the housing the vile was in has been tampered with and there is a syringe hole in the top of the vial.... i guess just coincidentally!? can't buy that

Spoiler

That's why it's tough to judge the trial, I don't have exactly how it played out. Even in the documentary it feels like the defense questioning the FBI agent about the test backfired since he was so confident. They may have created enough doubt with the chemist they brought up but that was doubt about the test itself. They didn't show how the blood being in the car was suspect, too convenient in the case either despite talking about it beforehand either which was odd. But again I've only seen the documentary.

As for the vial having a syringe hole, they said the blood was on file for a year before it was processed to get him out. I don't know how those tests work, perhaps they stick a needle through the top? I dunno, even the defense didn't feel as confident about it as when it first came up.

 

[ZQQLANDER]

ZQQLANDER needs a rewatch.

Don't need a rewatch when I have you guys to point stuff out to me I missed . Plus I've watched enough depressing shit for a while. This documentary was really great in that it showed the ripple effects this event had on the community.

I don't know. I still think he did it, but I would be swayed under having reasonable doubts.

 

[FrenchMovieTheme]

Spoiler

1. The police had to search the premise how many times? Like eight? The documentary already showed investigators were incompetent so I wouldn't put it past them to have to do something multiple times to get it right.

2. Maybe it's as simple as he forgot to clean down the car or he thought he already did. His first thought is going to be to clean up the site where she was killed.

3. The county's actions were egregiously deplorable during the first sexual assault which caused Stephen to be wrongfully incarcerated. However, I think there is a difference between that and creating a conspiracy to plant physical evidence on someone.

4. didn't know his testimony was inconsistent. Was it Brendan Dassey inconsistent or were there minor inconsistencies?

5. Maybe Avery used burn barrels he got from his property to transport the remains from the quarry location to his house. He dumped some of the remains into his fire pit and started another bonfire. However, he didn't dump out all of the remains and some were left in the bottom of the drum.

Anyone think there will be a season 2?

Spoiler

1. you would put it past them that they searched the property for 8 days immediately after and didn't find it, then come back like 5 months later and magically find the bullet in the garage? i don't care how incompetent you are, that isn't realistic

2. so he kills her on november 3rd or whenever, then parks the car on his property, then sees all this shit on the news about a search party and so on in the coming days, and does nothing about the car or the blood? it's not like he bleached the entire garage and then 5 minutes after the search party showed up and said howdy fella mind if we look around your lot!?

3. but there is indeed a motive for them to find him guilty of a murder. what makes you think these "deplorable" police officers who locked him up for 18 years DESPITE receiving evidence and information to the contrary wouldn't pull some shit to get him locked up again?

4. it was minor inconsistencies but all of these "inconsistent" things keep popping up in this investigation and at some point you have to stop ignoring them and piece together that something doesn't add up

5. but that would make no sense to do!

 

[JumpJeff84]

Don't need a rewatch when I have you guys to point stuff out to me I missed . Plus I've watched enough depressing shit for a while. This documentary was really great in that it showed the ripple effects this event had on the community.

I don't know. I still think he did it, but I would be swayed under having reasonable doubts.

That's fine to have that opinion, but just keep in mind that the cops accused of having planted evidence have TONS of motivation to do so.

They were right on the verge of having to make the 35 million payout. And it's pretty likely they would all have ended up losing their jobs as blowback- remember the report Lenke filed the day after Avery was exonerated? Had Avery not been charged with the murder, and the payout had happened, you can bet that Lenke would have been in deep shit- an investigation would have happened almost certainly.

It was only because of the murder charge that the payout was annulled. Questioning Lenke's motivation to plant evidence is ridiculous. His motivation was more than apparent. He was panicked and desperate- the murder charge was timed perfectly and saved his ass.

 

[KarmaCow]

I was too young to really follow the OJ case and more importantly didn't have the desire to intensely follow trials but this along with Serial really shows how much cases are affected by emotion and perception. Even now I'm trying to be careful to not just get swept up in the documentary's portrayal because they showed how the public was swept up to believing he was guilty based on little more than hearsay, long before the trial.

 

[scarface983]

watching this now.. ill be finished over the xmas break. Looks Interesting.

 

[ZQQLANDER]

I was too young to really follow the OJ case and more importantly didn't have the desire to intensely follow trials but this along with Serial really shows how much cases are affected by emotion and perception. Even now I'm trying to be careful to not just get swept up in the documentary's portrayal because they showed how the public was swept up to believing he was guilty based on little more than hearsay, long before the trial.

Isn't there an FX series on the OJ case coming out in February? I think I saw some trailers for it, looked pretty solid.

 

[KarmaCow]

Isn't there an FX series on the OJ case coming out in February? I think I saw some trailers for it, looked pretty solid.

Do you mean American Crime? I thought that was more a dramatization for entertainment rather than a documentary. I'm already aware of the general points of the OJ case because you kinda just picked it up through osmosis. Kinda like the equivalent of seeing this case through the media's portrayal in the background while doing other things and as a kid.

 

[ZQQLANDER]

Do you mean American Crime? I thought that was more a dramatization for entertainment rather than a documentary. I'm already aware of the general points of the OJ case because you kinda just picked it up through osmosis. Kinda like the equivalent of seeing this case through the media's portrayal.

Yeah, pretty sure it's a dramatization.

Kinda curious as to why this series was released now. It would see like they should have timed the release with Stephen's and/or Brendan's appeals

 

[Erigu]

From one of the drawers or something? Lol its fucking stupid

Spoiler

So is the idea that Avery would park the car in his own yard (instead of, say, simply destroying it), and then keep the key for some reason and hide it inside his own home.

 

[Dr.Acula]

Spoiler

That's why it's tough to judge the trial, I don't have exactly how it played out. Even in the documentary it feels like the defense questioning the FBI agent about the test backfired since he was so confident. They may have created enough doubt with the chemist they brought up but that was doubt about the test itself. They didn't show how the blood being in the car was suspect, too convenient in the case either despite talking about it beforehand either which was odd. But again I've only seen the documentary.

As for the vial having a syringe hole, they said the blood was on file for a year before it was processed to get him out. I don't know how those tests work, perhaps they stick a needle through the top? I dunno, even the defense didn't feel as confident about it as when it first came up.

Spoiler

They said somewhere that the labs never pierce the top. They remove the cap and then replace the cap after. They wouldn't leave a hole in it either, that's not secure. And if they do have to break the tape that houses the case, they would replace it with newly signed and dated tape, not scotch tape. The vial was not opened and pierced in any way where it was logged.

They received the evidence on tape with witnesses and recorded the entire chain of custody from their end. They got it already tampered with.

In regards to burning

Spoiler

I recall them saying in one of the eps that the Avery lot not only have a car crusher, but some kind of industrial kiln? The burn pit was for beer campfires, they had something on the property for serious fire-based disposal. They argued that a body would end up in that, not the pit. I can't recall when they mentioned a kiln, but it was brought up along with the crusher in an earlier ep.

 

[mf.luder]

Spoiler

They said somewhere that the labs never pierce the top. They remove the cap and then replace the cap after. They wouldn't leave a hole in it either, that's not secure. And if they do have to break the tape that houses the case, they would replace it with newly signed and dated tape, not scotch tape. The vial was not opened and pierced in any way where it was logged.

They received the evidence on tape with witnesses and recorded the entire chain of custody from their end. They got it already tampered with.

In regards to burning

Spoiler

I recall them saying in one of the eps that the Avery lot not only have a car crusher, but some kind of industrial kiln? The burn pit was for beer campfires, they had something on the property for serious fire-based disposal. They argued that a body would end up in that, not the pit. I can't recall when they mentioned a kiln, but it was brought up along with the crusher in an earlier ep.

I thought I recall them saying they had something like a smelter?

 

[evilromero]

The interrogators leading Brenden on should have thrown the case out the window for the prosecution. That was a open and shut case of leading him on with considerable bias and no reason to believe Brenden had witnessed that crime. "Who shot her in the head?" "Oh, uh yeah. Um, shot her. Right."

How can any justice system review these interrogations and say there is a case?

 

[IronRinn]

Just finished this. Incredibly well done. That said:

Spoiler

God fucking dammit our justice system is so unbelievably fucked. What the state of Wisconsin has done to Steven and Brendan is un-fucking-conscionable.

 

[Ashodin]

Any regards on the Vacutaine Vial of blood should be regarded as such: (my wife is a LabCorp tech)

The vial had a hole in it because that's how the blood is drawn, the top of the vial is actually punctured when taking blood samples. The blood around the hole itself is made when the needle from the sample is extracted and the vial is put away.

So that bit of evidence, when elaborated on, would have not helped the Defense's case.

What I don't particularly like about the outcome of the case is how it utterly destroyed the Averys' family, their reputation in Manitowoc County, and how Steven's kids will grow up without their father (and not to mention Brendan,

Spoiler

who's still a virgin

mind you!).