This sounds more believable than what the prosecution presented. This just goes to show how the cops and their brotherhood is setup in the judicial system.
Also that Halbach brother came off douchy, also suspect him.
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Making A Murderer - Netflix 10-part documentary series - S1 now streaming on Netflix
- Thread starter Armadilo
- Start date
Also that Halbach brother came off douchy, also suspect him.
I can forgive the brother.
His sister was murdered so he is blinded and biased. He just wants someone to pay and the prosecution is feeding him this horrific tale of rape, mutilation and finally murder. He gets a pass for wanting to see someone pay for that. The prosecution and cops are assholes for not actually making the right person pay and preventing this from happening to another woman at a later time.
What I didn't get from him that he admitted that Brendan wasn't bright AND his first confession was coached yet he chose to believe it. The fact that is buddy-buddy (smiling and laughing) with all the scum of human beings also doesn't sit right.
The only reason his Lawyers were good is because he used the 400,000 settlement to pay them.
If he didn't get 400,000 from the city for his previous false accusation, he'd be rotting in jail framed and none of us would be talking about this.
I'd go so far to say that the police didn't know he'd be getting that much money to defend himself, and may have thought twice about trying to frame him in such a crappy way if they knew.
The poor really stand zero chance in US courts.
johnnyquicknives
Member
I thought this was a fantastic series.
As has been mentioned watching Brandon sit trying to guess what the police wanted him to say about the victims head was absolutely crazy.
I also felt so bad for the dismissed juror. You could see how much it was eating him up knowing that, had he not had a family emergency, he might have been able to make a difference. The fact that 3 of the jurors managed to sway the rest of the jury is also fascinating. I'd love to watch a series where you actually got to witness some of the deliberations progressing.
I also felt so bad for the dismissed juror. You could see how much it was eating him up knowing that, had he not had a family emergency, he might have been able to make a difference. The fact that 3 of the jurors managed to sway the rest of the jury is also fascinating. I'd love to watch a series where you actually got to witness some of the deliberations progressing.
PfantzyPantz
Member
Finished ep 8 and I'm crushed, don't think I want to watch the rest since I can assume what happens judging from a lot of the reactions in the topic. Krist man, this is all so messed up
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
Watch 12 angry men!
UnemployedVillain
Member
I'm going to echo this sentiment
CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls
Banned
Only 2 episodes in. I can't believe all the injustice I've seen illustrated in two hours. This documentary is pure rage fuel. Poor Steve Avery. Gonna hop out now before I spoil myself.
Superimposer
This is getting weirder all the time
Just finished episode 8.
Fuck this world. I can't go through watching 9 and 10 only to see the same shit inevitably happen to Brendan. On rare occasions I wish there was a hell for people like those corrupt Manitowoc cops.
UnemployedVillain
Member
It's fascinating the kind of reach these things have with services like Netflix and social media. For instance, if you go to any of the Manitowoc County facebook pages they're just being absolutely trashed by people based on the doc and what it revealed. The same with if you even search Len Kachinsky (Brendan's lawyer). Facebook, Yelp, Google reviews, any forum that allows public reviews is just destroying him. You may not like internet (mob) justice, but...well that's what it is
Haha, I love it too. It's so chilling and good I never skip it
Haha, I love it too. It's so chilling and good I never skip it
Question about Episode 6
I was sorta confused as to the goal of arguing the DNA evidence on the bullet. Were they trying say that determining whether or not the evidence the DNA on the bullet was planted was screwed because the control was contaminated or worse, that the technician intentionally forced the results to fit the narrative the cops had setup for her? It felt like a weak argument since it's not unreasonable that the technician simply didn't want to discount such a valuable piece of evidence over protocol independent of any pressure, but I don't know how much the control being contaminated actually affects the results.
PfantzyPantz
Member
Yeah I watched little of ep 9 and just gave up,
I can't handle seeing it happen to Brendan, especially over literally no evidence.
This is the only solace I take, they deserve so much worse but there's some tiny justice here. I truly hope this documentary will get enough attention to make waves.
So good.
You might be turned off then but so far it does present a compelling narrative.
Being a dirtbag shouldn't have anything to do with the complete lack of physical evidence in each case. Not surprising your boy would muddy the waters here.
As far as a person of interest in multiple rape cases, where's the evidence for that? Being a small town crook to then raping and murdering is quite a big jump to make.
Just finished the first episode. My thoughts:
I wanna shave this guy's beard so badly.
I was having a hard time empathizing for this ragamuffin but that ending clinched it. My disdain for corruption in the justice system outweighs my indifference towards dumb rednecks.
Let's do this thing.
I wanna shave this guy's beard so badly.
I was having a hard time empathizing for this ragamuffin but that ending clinched it. My disdain for corruption in the justice system outweighs my indifference towards dumb rednecks.
Let's do this thing.
What do you feel about his parents? C'mon man, don't be so shallow. I don't even want to know what you will think of Brendan ..
Cap'n Cook
Member
Yup. Also, some of the music they used throughout the series sounded similar to music from The last of Us, especially the music that plays
a few moments after the verdict
https://youtu.be/XYUErkvORWA
UnemployedVillain
Member
So my question is isn't it possible to recover deleted voice mails or phone calls from back then? I feel like if you know the exact numbers and time they would surely have been recorded, right?
The only people Im seeing that feel he's guilty after watching are locals in his town.
They keep saying the documentary doesn't show "mountains of evidence", but when asked what this evidence is they go radio silent.
The only piece someone brought forward is the nephew admitted in his confession to helping his uncle bleach the floor of the garage, and his jeans had bleach stains on them. The prosecution recovered the jeans and used them as evidence during the trial.
Seems like a pretty big oversight to not be included in the documentary, but all the other evidence is so questionable I doubt it would have swayed my opinion.
ZQQLANDER
Member
I would hazard to guess it isn't possible to obtain the actual content of the deleted voice mails/phone calls. However, the call detail record of the landline would reflect any incoming calls going to voicemail. Maybe, based on preexisting records of what voice mails were on the machine you could determine if any were deleted.
At this point however, those kind of records have been purged. Most subscribers delete call detail records after 3-4 years.
I certainly am not convinced that they did it. At the very least, I definitely have a significant shadow of doubt - enough to be unable to convict.
I believe the point was to suggest that if the technician was careless enough to contaminate the sample with her own DNA, then its possible that she could have made a similar mistake with accidentally introducing Teresa's DNA into the sample. That possibility is further supported by the fact that there was no other trace of her DNA anywhere in the garage and they couldnt even determine if the source of the dna on the bullet was even blood. Under any other circumstance the sample would have been marked inconclusive but because they were directed to "put Teresa in his garage" they went and got special permission to ignore protocol.
José Mourinho
cocknose
Could somebody recap for me the timeline with regards to the number plate? I know the officer called it in but I'm totally forgetting where in the timeline this took place and why it appeared suspicious.
UnemployedVillain
Member
At the least they could've found the number that had called, right? Seems like an odd thing not to pursue, although I understand as it wasn't the job of his defense attorney's to do that sort of thing. I just have a feeling
it'd be the ex-BFs number if they had found it and called
https://youtu.be/KpsRtPCWHoM
How does this get admissed and brushed away like that? Unbelievable. How is the cop not being questioned.
How does this get admissed and brushed away like that? Unbelievable. How is the cop not being questioned.
Aarglefarg
Member
This was after the victim was missing but before the car was found on the Avery property by the non-police search party.José Mourinho;190223735 said:
It is suspicious because it suggests the officer was looking at the car prior to it being found. This was to suggest police planted the car.
EightBitNate
Member
So with the show being released and all, what does this mean for the Averys?
You know, I thought this was the game changing piece of evidence. But after watching it a few times, it sounds to me like the guy was told there was a missing person and had written down the plate number but later he looked at it and had forgotten what it was in relation to. He then called dispatch to ask them to look it up, then remembered.
He might have been acting testy because he thought the defense lawyer was going to call him out for not being able to remember what the license plate number of a missing person was when it was so important.
I wonder if there is more testimony from the officer that was cut.
But the car wasn't reported found until 2 days later on 11/5. He made the call on 11/3.
I dunno. When Paradise Lost: The Child Murders at Robin Hood Hills is probably directly resulted in the West Memphis 3's ultimate release. Paradise Lost was such a sensation and nothing had ever come out like that. Since it came out in 1996, before wide Internet communication adoption, and with DNA testing being so new, people were really into the cause célèbre, to the point where literal celebrities got involved.
Something like Serial, also very popular, didn't really help Adnan Syed so much in the public. Most people are kinda split on his innocence/guilt, and those that do have opinions aren't married to them. And The Jinx went the opposite way, convincing everyone of Robert Durst's guilt.
Making a Murderer may not really do anything for the Averys, we may be suffering from murder-fatigue brought on by peak-murder.
Krappadizzle
Member
It's the same composer.
The model of the car wasn't unknown to cops before then and certainly not the public either. I mean it's incredibly suspect, especially since if he did just forget that would have been an easy explanation when asked, but him calling it in isn't incontrovertible evidence either. With way it's presented in the documentary and on top of all the other bullshit in the case, it's seems crazy it wasn't a bigger deal but they also didn't show how the prosecution handled it either.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
i don't disagree, but the question was why was the family or avery himself an "outcast" in town, and apparently that is the reason. i couldn't find anything online about it either but that's what was said!
PackerinMN
Member
Lenk set him up and the EDTA test by the FBI was bunk. The blood vial had a fucking syringe of blood taken from it! And the keys didn't even have Teresa's DNA on it?!? Like wtf, Lenk just rubbed the key in Stephens pillowcase and threw it on the floor. Avery was going to get 36 million dollars from the county right?.. that's definitely enough motive.
evilromero
Member
Jesus, this show. I didn't know anything going in. Now my soul is crushed.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
but why would you call in a plate check request 2 days before the vehicle was found? i would think if you're a cop calling in a plate check, you are looking at the car/plate at that time. why would he need to call it in otherwise?
Ep 5 spoilers
I fucked up my original post but it's what FlyinJ proposed: he wrote it down, forgot what it was for, called it in to jog his memory and remembered it was part of the biggest missing person case of the county. I really doubt it too but it's not even presented as a smoking gun in the documentary. I'm only up to episode 7 though, watching this back to back is just too draining.
I couldn't believe it when they dropped that bomb. However, they never showed any more of his testimony regarding the call, and never even mentioned it again for the remaining 5 hours of the documentary.
My theory is that cop isn't the sharpest tack in the drawer. At his morning briefing they went over everything, and he jotted down notes. Later he saw the plate number in his notes and didn't know what it was in relation to, so he called dispatch to ask. When they mentioned it was the missing woman's car, he remembered it from the briefing. That's why the call was so short, and he didn't say anything else.
And yeah, when he made that call she was known to be missing and the plate and make was public knowledge.
Like I said, I would really like to read the full testimony from that exchange in the court.
It really seems like that part was just thrown in without further context simply to make it look shady when it likely wasn't.
Episode 2 has my blood boiling, all of these officers and investigators are clearly evasive scumbags.
Well, I don't know for certain that he's innocent. BUT, on what I saw in the documentary, there absolutely is NOT enough evidence to convict him beyond a reasonable doubt, and that's really what it's all about. As his lawyers said time and time again, what happened to the presumption of innocence in the judicial process?
For what it's worth, I don't think Avery is a particularly nice guy, nor should some of his actions in his youth be completely ignored. That, however, should never ever be a justification for the 18 years he served for something he clearly didn't do and the 2nd miscarriage of justice he's going through now.
Vampire On Titus
Member
I'm just up late still thinking about all this. I cant stop remembering when the prosecution says
If you're going to follow this line of inquiry do so "at your own peril." Like jesus fucking christ. Could they be any more obviously corrupt? I get this wasn't as impartial as Serial or conclusive as The Jinx... But does anyone who's seen this doubt the Avery's got fucked? His blood in the car makes no sense. There's a vial of blood the county had access to. Tampered, with a pin-hole in the lid. Clear conflict of interest... At that point I feel like remaining skeptical was more about doing myself a favor than anything. To just not have to fully process exactly how deliberately framed Steven was. Steven got fucked over his reputation as an outcast in a shitty small town and now him and Branden are rotting in prison over it. I know I'm not saying anything new in this thread but I keep thinking about Steve in prison for all the years he has. His relationship with his kids robbed of him. His relationship with two important partners robbed as well... It's too fucking heat-breaking I almost wish I hadnt watched this show. The saddest thing in all this is just that I know Steve's not the only one... Not the only one by a long shot.
I don't get why he would murder a woman he didn't know after making an appointment with her.
The only way him murdering her makes sense is if he wangs her over the head, puts her body in the back of the van, and transports her to the quarry for a burn.
The cops don't burn the body. Do they -or the killer- move the charred remains to behind Avery's trailer? I can buy that. Do they move an abandoned van to Avery's? Would Avery have taken the van back to his place himself and not crushed it? Possibly.
But we still don't have a murder scene or murder weapons.
The cops don't burn the body. Do they -or the killer- move the charred remains to behind Avery's trailer? I can buy that. Do they move an abandoned van to Avery's? Would Avery have taken the van back to his place himself and not crushed it? Possibly.
But we still don't have a murder scene or murder weapons.
Post part 7-
Ive been thinking about the blood vial. It was put on record in 1985. In the 18 years he was in prison, they went through several appeals and whatnot based on DNA. Wouldn't they have used the vial from 85 for testing in all those appeals? That would explain why it was opened so many times and had a needle hole in it...
UltimaPooh
Member
Wasn't that from the final DNA testing that cleared him? The rest was put into evidence and Lenk was the one who handled it. There should have been no reason to open it back up and pull from it, since that was the sample in the first place. That took place in 2002.
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