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[aTTckr]

Is it confirmed that there were Americans on the plane? If so, things could get really ugly, e.g. NATO in Ukraine and therefore right on the Russian border could get out of hand rather quickly.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

Jesus, my friend died on MH370. Now it seems like another person I know died on MH17 :/

EDIT: Yep, confirmed. She died.

What the fuck man.

Jesus

 

[Gabriel_Logan]

Jesus, my friend died on MH370. Now it seems like another person I know died on MH17 :/

EDIT: Yep, confirmed. She died.

What the fuck man.

Holy crap

 

[Bollocks]

I'm worried by the general tone of the media coverage, though, like there's a trial and jury on the go, with the media playing the role of prosecuting Russia, bringing up every detail that might point to them, even though none of it is actually real evidence yet.

Also they try and blur the line between Russia and the separatists like they are the same thing

Welcome to western propaganda, glad there are still people who don't fall for it and can make up their own mind.

 

[Miggytronz]

Jesus, my friend died on MH370. Now it seems like another person I know died on MH17 :/

EDIT: Yep, confirmed. She died.

What the fuck man.

Dude.

 

[Meadows]

Is it confirmed that there were Americans on the plane? If so, things could get really ugly, e.g. NATO in Ukraine and therefore right on the Russian border could get out of hand rather quickly.

yes there were Americans, but no, Ukraine is not in NATO

 

[commedieu]

sirap :\

 

[Tex117]

Is it confirmed that there were Americans on the plane? If so, things could get really ugly, e.g. NATO in Ukraine and therefore right on the Russian border could get out of hand rather quickly.

The Netherlands are in NATO...Russia could potentially have a huge problem if Western Europe decides they have had enough of this crap.

 

[kess]

So, reading between the lines he's basically confirming that Russian separatists or Russia itself shot the plane down and he's just deflecting blame.

It's pretty damn strange any way you slice it. The crash is Ukraine's responsibility... despite the Russian government's belief that the current Ukrainian government does not have legitimacy in the region the plane crashed in?

 

[CitizenVectron]

Also they try and blur the line between Russia and the separatists like they are the same thing, when in fact they're Ukranians.

Just to clear something up, many (and possibly most) of the fighters are Russian, from Russia. The leader of the movement is a Russian military officer involved in Chechnya operations as well. And many of the fighters have been confirmed to be from Russia as well (check the Ukraine news thread for more details).

I am not saying there aren't Ukrainians involved, but the bulk of the movement has been pushed from Russia, including Russian gear, unmarked soldiers, etc.

 

[Tugatrix]

Jesus, my friend died on MH370. Now it seems like another person I know died on MH17 :/

EDIT: Yep, confirmed. She died.

What the fuck man.

damn man, I feel sorry for your loss

 

[Insane Metal]

Some guy on pprune which is a pilots forum called this 3 days ago, he said they should close Eastern Ukraine airspace.

http://www.pprune.org/military-avia...ned-military-transport-plane.html#post8521715

Holy shit!

 

[Clydefrog]

Msnbc and cnn need to just quit. Fox needs Shep only 24/7 and we're good.

I'd be cool if Shep started his own network. Shep News!

 

[Dreams-Visions]

CNN is saying Russian state-run television is saying that not only is this Ukraine's fault, but that the Ukraine was actively targeting Vladmir Putin's plane and missed, accidentally hitting this commercial plane instead.

Also, that Ukraine is crucifying children.

Such propaganda. Much wow.

 

[Showaddy]

That separatist leader who boasted about shooting down a military transport online which then turned out to be the passenger flight must be shitting an absolute brick right now. The whole world's after his moronic arse now.

 

[jmdajr]

Jesus, my friend died on MH370. Now it seems like another person I know died on MH17 :/

EDIT: Yep, confirmed. She died.

What the fuck man.

Nah man. Just no....

 

[Tex117]

CNN is saying Russian state-run television is saying that not only is this Ukraine's fault, but that the Ukraine was actively targeting Vladmir Putin's plane and missed, accidentally hitting this commercial plane instead.

Also, that Ukraine is crucifying children.

Such propaganda. Much wow.

That is such a huge...EFFING HUGE claim.

 

[Dr.Acula]

Some scary stuff going on here. If indeed it was separatists in Ukraine who shot this plane down, even if by mistake, I hope they are held responsible for it.

I'm worried by the general tone of the media coverage, though, like there's a trial and jury on the go, with the media playing the role of prosecuting Russia, bringing up every detail that might point to them, even though none of it is actually real evidence yet.

Also they try and blur the line between Russia and the separatists like they are the same thing, when in fact they're Ukranians. They're not solely Russia's creation, either, they are the direct result of the Western-backed 'government' that took Ukraine by force a few months ago and the resulting NATO expansion. What happened back then legitimately caused a schism in the country - and it's no surprise Russia would help the separatists when the West is helping Kiev and in fact helped them get in power.

I've been following that separatist news link someone posted a while back via shitty Chrome translation and the last post on there was how the rebels are denying responsibility but realize they're fucked as they prepare themselves to start fighting 'Americans and their capabilities'. Then talking about World War 3.

I find America vs Russia stuff legitimately scary. God help us if we're fully going down that path again.

Western backed govt? Ukraine has been trying to gain some independence from Russia for most of the last century. Ukraine isn't just a puppet of West and East, they want autonomy that was promised with the dissolution of the soviet bloc.

 

[superdeluxe]

No it's not.

It's damage control from the get go. "Hey everyone, I can't begin how sorry I am, but really, this would have never happened if the Ukraine didn't have this current conflict with Russia. Eh, what do you mean they were struck down by a missle shot by pro-Russian seperatists? Did we provide them with these weapons? Eeeeh... moment of silence please"

But the thing is, even though Putin is bullshitting everyone, nobody will do something because 1) The Netherlands (with sadly the most casualties) will roll over and accept Putin's apology and 2) The Netherlands are to dependant on Russian gass. Well, from a Dutch point of view that is.

And the Dutch-Russian political relations were already pretty bumpy.

United States? If true 23 American citizens

 

[DUFFMCWALIN]

Welcome to western propaganda, glad there are still people who don't fall for it and can make up their own mind.

What does this even mean.

 

[Xenex]

Jesus, my friend died on MH370. Now it seems like another person I know died on MH17 :/

EDIT: Yep, confirmed. She died.

What the fuck man.

Sorry for your loss, I hope you're going to be ok.

 

[Axial]

Just heard the recording of a phone conversation between Igor Bezler, a pro-Russian rebel leader, and Vasili Geranin, a russian intelligence agent.
Looks like cossacks based in Chernukhino shot down the plane, if the recording is authentic ofcourse.

 

[bodyboarder]

CNN is saying Russian state-run television is saying that not only is this Ukraine's fault, but that the Ukraine was actively targeting Vladmir Putin's plane and missed, accidentally hitting this commercial plane instead.

Also, that Ukraine is crucifying children.

Such propaganda. Much wow.

I'd expect nothing less.

 

[sangreal]

Some guy on pprune which is a pilots forum called this 3 days ago, he said they should close Eastern Ukraine airspace.

http://www.pprune.org/military-avia...ned-military-transport-plane.html#post8521715

I really don't mean to keep posting the same link, but this guy too. It was really that obvious that something would happen

http://jeziorki.blogspot.com/2014/07/high-over-eastern-ukraine.html

Yesterday's news that long-range anti-aircraft rockets, apparently fired from Russia, downed a Ukrainian transport plane flying at 21,000ft, is worrying. Today, a Ukrainian jet bombed allegedly separatists in Snizhne, near Donetsk. Take a look at eastern Ukraine on FlightRadar24.com, and you'll see a procession of civilian aircraft flying along an air corridor between Luhansk, Donetsk, Horlivka, Kramatorsk - places where battles are raging and people are being killed. Yet blithely oblivious to what's happening on the ground, some of the world's largest civilian airliners are criss-crossing the area at 38,000ft.

...

Shouldn't there be a no-fly zone for civilian passenger jets? Ukraine has maintained a ground exclusion zone around Chernobyl since independence - should it not, for the sake of the safety of tens of thousands of passengers flying overhead each day, close off the airspace around the conflict zone?

 

[VeryGooster]

.

A quick look on @flightradar24 and you can see the move away from Ukraine airspace

 

[jamesinclair]

Holy shit!

This one is a little more damning

Tuesday, 15 July 2014

Shouldn't there be a no-fly zone for civilian passenger jets? Ukraine has maintained a ground exclusion zone around Chernobyl since independence - should it not, for the sake of the safety of tens of thousands of passengers flying overhead each day, close off the airspace around the conflict zone?

let's take a closer look at the flightpath of that A380... I don't think flying over a warzone in a passenger jet with several hundred people on board is a good idea. Incidentally, Russian airlines flying to Simferopol in Russian-occupied Crimea, as well as other Black Sea airports to the east, are skirting around eastern Ukrainian today - something they weren't doing yesterday. Before the shoot-down of the transport plane, they'd fly directly over Ukraine, the shortest air route from the Black Sea to Moscow and St Petersburg. Today, they are avoiding Ukrainian airspace east of Dnepropetrovsk and Kharkiv.

http://jeziorki.blogspot.com/2014/07/high-over-eastern-ukraine.html

Again, appears to have been posted Tuesday

 

[Mr.Mike]

CNN is saying Russian state-run television is saying that not only is this Ukraine's fault, but that the Ukraine was actively targeting Vladmir Putin's plane and missed, accidentally hitting this commercial plane instead.

Also, that Ukraine is crucifying children.

Such propaganda. Much wow.

 

[Maninthemirror]

All Airlines are now avoiding rebel held areas.

they are going around it like a circle

 

[fantomena]

Jesus, my friend died on MH370. Now it seems like another person I know died on MH17 :/

EDIT: Yep, confirmed. She died.

What the fuck man.

Im really sorry for your loss. All my condolences.

 

[davepoobond]

Unbelievable they would target a passenger plane.

 

[whytemyke]

United States? If true 23 American citizens

Nobody is starting world war 3 over 23 Americans. That whole plane could be Americans and it'd just be sanctions.

 

[Chariot]

What the fuck, this sound like a story from the bible and not a news report.

 

[sangreal]

All Airlines are now avoiding rebel held areas.

they are going around it like a circle

better picture from earlier: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=121492603&postcount=2246

 

[vas_a_morir]

This one is a little more damning




http://jeziorki.blogspot.com/2014/07/high-over-eastern-ukraine.html

Again, appears to have been posted Tuesday

I'm actually very impressed by how perceptive people are about these things. People were calling it... I don't know what this means, really.

 

[Insane Metal]

This one is a little more damning




http://jeziorki.blogspot.com/2014/07/high-over-eastern-ukraine.html

Again, appears to have been posted Tuesday

Yeah I just saw in this thread... god damn. Those companies were negligent too. How can they fly over places in conflict?? WTF

 

[Maninthemirror]

Unbelievable they would target a passenger plane.

It is their fault and responsibility but even through Ukrainian Intelligence, they really didn't seem to know it was civilian. A mistake due to them being Rebels and not trained professionala

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Unbelievable they would target a passenger plane.

By most accounts, it appears to have been an accident. As far as we know, they thought it was a military plane and didn't spend a few seconds engaged in some critical thought...thinking that would have lead them to understand this was a commercial jet.

It is their fault and responsibility but even through Ukrainian Intelligence, they really didn't seem to know it was civilian. A mistake due to them being Rebels and not trained professionala

The militants are professional soldiers, as far as I know. They're not random citizenry that decided to take up arms.

 

[Sviatoslav]

It's pretty damn strange any way you slice it. The crash is Ukraine's responsibility... despite the Russian government's belief that the current Ukrainian government does not have legitimacy in the region the plane crashed in?

What?

 

[ArjanN]

See, this is fucking weird.

Not really, it's just a reference to the other Malaysia Airlines airplane that crashed.

 

[DUFFMCWALIN]

A mistake due to them being Rebels and not trained professionala

That may or may not be true. I'm not sure if we can verify that 100%.

edit: about the professional part.

 

[Black Door]

What does this mean? Will this escalate into further conflict? International/UN intervention?

 

[xbhaskarx]

Just a few weeks back Russian media was bragging about how BUK systems would protect the Separatist skies in Donetsk region

http://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=1741703

CNN is saying Russian state-run television is saying that not only is this Ukraine's fault, but that the Ukraine was actively targeting Vladmir Putin's plane and missed, accidentally hitting this commercial plane instead.

Nice... Russia being Russia.

 

[Dr.Acula]

I saw betting slips with Germany 7 Brazil 1, I wouldn't go as far as to say someone "called it." This is the internet, everyone has called everything, pretty much.

 

[Xenex]

What does this even mean.

Don't listen to him, he's talking Bollocks. There are 2 facts: A civilian plane was shot down and this occurred in Eastern Ukraine where the rebels are currently based. I don't think anyone needs the media to work out who did it. (Unless you want a choice between the rebels or Russia but they're more or less one and the same).

 

[Midnight Phoenix]

CNN is saying Russian state-run television is saying that not only is this Ukraine's fault, but that the Ukraine was actively targeting Vladmir Putin's plane and missed, accidentally hitting this commercial plane instead.

Also, that Ukraine is crucifying children.

Such propaganda. Much wow.

http://www.stopfake.org/en/news/

 

[superdeluxe]

Nobody is starting world war 3 over 23 Americans. That whole plane could be Americans and it'd just be sanctions.

I didn't claim they would, but there will be calls for tougher, real sanctions, not freezing assets

 

[Big-E]

I think these air line companies that are flying this corridor need to be responsible to an extent.You have military aircraft being shot down in the air space and still have flights flying through. It was clear since the end of June that the separatists had good AA. Seems like the airlines need to be held accountable for this as well to an extent.

 

[aTTckr]

yes there were Americans, but no, Ukraine is not in NATO

Yeah but more than enough of the victims are from NATO states. The Ukrainian government might even be glad for NATO involvement against the rebels. But if the US is on board, NATO probably won't care if Ukraine wants them there or not.

 

[AlexMogil]

Jesus, my friend died on MH370. Now it seems like another person I know died on MH17 :/

EDIT: Yep, confirmed. She died.

What the fuck man.

No, no! What the heck, man, I'm so sorry.

 

[Dr.Acula]

By most accounts, it appears to have been an accident. As far as we know, they thought it was a military plane and didn't spend a few seconds engaged in some critical thought...thinking that would have lead them to understand this was a commercial jet.

Accident? Like it would have been legal had it been a military craft? They're terrorists, they don't have any authority to launch missiles, they don't control air space.