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Malaysia Airlines flight en route from Amsterdam shot down over Ukraine; no survivors
- Thread starter alfredofroylan
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These are the controls for an older BUK missile system,
Not something that you work without training
I've played Battlefield before, I'm sure it's not that hard to figure out...
(seriously, though - these devices are sophisticated and have pretty complex controls. You need trained pros to operate them, and I wouldn't be that surprised at all if said training came from Russia. Not necessarily 'officially', but there are lots of ex-Russian military among the separatists' ranks already, right?)
Yeah, I wonder if Merkel ever thought that wasn't the best plan.
It would be enough to confirm there was no actual technical problem.
You do what you can without shooting yourself in the foot.
You seem to think shutting off gas is simple in the real world. Maybe in a dictatorship not in a democracy. Govts would be toppled or at best greatly damaged.
iceatcs
Junior Member
In other words, Putin just confirmed this is not accident caused by the airplane itself.
Wow, so is it actually from Russia, not Separatist.
hmm that would explain it, I hearing a Portuguese war expert saying that the BUK it's radar guided
That could still be valuable. They may have seen and mentioned nearby fighter jets.
BumblebeeCody
Member
eot
Banned
Missiles don't necessarily ram airplanes, they have proximity detonators and aren't flawless in their guidance / manoeuvring.
Doesn't the BUK have locking options, including heat-sensing?
JohnTinker
Limbaugh Parrot
What the fuck man
These images are from a Ukrainian military plane being shot down, NOT today's Malaysian flight
These are the controls for an older BUK missile system,
Not something that you work without training
I call 3 months before BUK Simulator 2014 shows up on Steam Greenlight.
Tom Nook
Member
DoktorEvil
Banned
Fucking CNN.
Slackbladder
Member
But that would be proof of a cataclysmic event. Either being hit by another plane, a bomb going off or being struck by a missile. Alone it's true it would'nt disclose much but along with the CVR it still gives important information.
The BUK when it was first introduced was Radar only but modernization added optical, thermal and laser
Naah, it's rather that there hasn't been seen as necessary to do anything, there are numerous ways to solve the problem, but the concern has been local environmental impact, both in the EU and in the US.
While it's obvious that it would hurt Europe, the consequences for Russia would likely be worse in case they lose access to large parts of the international capital markets.
Danne-Danger
Member
Nuno Rogeiro failed as War expert
Dreams-Visions
Member
Interesting commentary from CNN on the missile system that answers some of my earlier questions:
The missile system had a traditional Friend or Foe ID system installed in it. All it really does is identify whether a plane is a FRIEND (as identified by the transponder) or...not identified. That is to say, it can't identify wether a blip that was not identified as a FRIEND is an actual FOE or just a neutral/commercial vehicle in the airspace. It simply identifies who is a FRIEND...and the system relies on military intelligence, communication and the chain of command to assess the intentions of any unknown bogies and their threat level.
In this situation, it would have been expected that after the person on the radar sees the blip, they pass that information along...and someone in charge would have looked at the information, observed a jet flying at traditional commercial airliner altitudes, flying in a straight line on a known commercial flight path, and appearing very passive would have been accepted as a civilian craft. With any measure of critical thinking applied.
This did not happen here and it appears a tragic mistake was made. Perhaps a failure of the rebel chain of command. Maybe they don't even have a chain of command organized enough to communicate before taking such a shot. I really don't know.
Either way, I thought someone might find the insight illuminating, so I'm passing it along.
The missile system had a traditional Friend or Foe ID system installed in it. All it really does is identify whether a plane is a FRIEND (as identified by the transponder) or...not identified. That is to say, it can't identify wether a blip that was not identified as a FRIEND is an actual FOE or just a neutral/commercial vehicle in the airspace. It simply identifies who is a FRIEND...and the system relies on military intelligence, communication and the chain of command to assess the intentions of any unknown bogies and their threat level.
In this situation, it would have been expected that after the person on the radar sees the blip, they pass that information along...and someone in charge would have looked at the information, observed a jet flying at traditional commercial airliner altitudes, flying in a straight line on a known commercial flight path, and appearing very passive would have been accepted as a civilian craft. With any measure of critical thinking applied.
This did not happen here and it appears a tragic mistake was made. Perhaps a failure of the rebel chain of command. Maybe they don't even have a chain of command organized enough to communicate before taking such a shot. I really don't know.
Either way, I thought someone might find the insight illuminating, so I'm passing it along.
QuantumBro
Banned
I take what I said about him back.
yes
So what? This is about national/European interest over political interest. At some point in the history of EU this outrageous thing (thinking of common good and future over political gain) should happen. Usually in crisis situation. It didn't work with the economical crisis, maybe it will work with this. But I guess that maybe 4 German citizen are too few to matter for example and everyone cares just for his or her own ass, as I learned earlier.
Uh, well, yes? They're different countries fighting for fairly different reasons.
So, reading between the lines he's basically confirming that Russian separatists or Russia itself shot the plane down and he's just deflecting blame.
Completely different.
Don't they teach history at your school? At least you should be familiar with the Gaza conflict.
Yeah I don't see how the whole statement makes it seem any saner.
Bad Ukraine you are defending your territory from being taken over by Russia so it is all your fault! You should just surrender and let us Win and this would have never happened
AuthenticM
Member
Does Russia want to go to war ?
Dreams-Visions
Member
Obviously not?
No need to make such remarks, especially since not everyone has the same education.
Yes.
Frank_Lima
Neo Member
Interesting commentary from CNN on the missile system that answers some of my earlier questions:
The missile system had a traditional Friend or Foe ID system installed in it. All it really does is identify whether a plane is a FRIEND (as identified by the transponder) or...not identified. That is to say, it can't identify wether a blip that was not identified as a FRIEND is an actual FOE or just a neutral/commercial vehicle in the airspace. It simply identifies who is a FRIEND...and the system relies on military intelligence, communication and the chain of command to assess the intentions of any unknown bogies and their threat level.
In this situation, it would have been expected that after the person on the radar sees the blip, they pass that information along...and someone in charge would have looked at the information, observed a jet flying at traditional commercial airliner altitudes, flying in a straight line on a known commercial flight path, and appearing very passive would have been accepted as a civilian craft. With any measure of critical thinking applied.
This did not happen here and it appears a tragic mistake was made. Perhaps a failure of the rebel chain of command. Maybe they don't even have a chain of command organized enough to communicate before taking such a shot. I really don't know.
Either way, I thought someone might find the insight illuminating, so I'm passing it along.
Very good point.
figadapaura
Member
Hoya Destroyer
Member
This whole thing is awful.
Losing a loved one under circumstances like this must be unbearable. Its such a tragic waste.
Its extra sad to see so many passengers coming from Australia (my country).
Losing a loved one under circumstances like this must be unbearable. Its such a tragic waste.
Its extra sad to see so many passengers coming from Australia (my country).
Pristine_Condition
Member
Not odd at all.
And absolutely factually incorrect to say "only a heat-speaking missile would go for the engine."
Totally false. Scientifically-proven totally false.
Jet aircraft engines produce a HUGE radar signature. From front-facing or rear-facing attack angles, the engines of conventional aircraft dominate the radar signature. For example:
http://proceedings.fyper.com/eccomascfd2006/documents/628.pdf
That's the primary reason stealth aircraft engines are shrouded and designed the way they are.
So anybody who would point to this as some sort of conspiracy theory "evidence" is ignorant if how things work.
This is probably the most horrifyingly uncanny thing I've seen in a long time.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
No. I doubt Putin is very happy about this, he is doing what he's always doing: Spinning everything to hell and back. It worked for him in the past, it'll work for him this time. Those statements aren't meant for "us" in the west, but for russians.
vas_a_morir
Banned
This happened today, and there are 24 pages in this thread already... how did I miss this?
Dreams-Visions
Member
So much maths in this PDF. Prisitne, pls.
Oh yes, it certainly is.
CitizenVectron
Member
That's a previous plane, apparently.
EDIT - You edited while I was quoting, oops!
Ignore this correction!
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