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[Pristine_Condition]

That separatist leader who boasted about shooting down a military transport online which then turned out to be the passenger flight must be shitting an absolute brick right now. The whole world's after his moronic arse now.

He and the guys who actually pulled the trigger and killed all those civilians will be sheltered in Russia and given new identities to avoid justice at the Hague for war atrocities. Mark it down. Putin and his Russian supporters are disgusting.

 

[BurnOutBrighter]

Several people were called from our teams this morning to help MFAT (Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade) determine if there were any New Zealanders on the flight. You can't just look at the flight manifest as people may be travelling on overseas passports.

 

[Mully]

People need to stop posting about WW3 in this thread, your fears/wishes about living through a World War are stupid. It likely won't happen and a shoot-down incident will not start something like this (I don't care what happened to Franz Ferdinand that excuse is stupid).

 

[kess]

Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak said that he had spoken by phone to President Barack Obama, and that both leaders agreed only crash site investigators should have access to Malaysian Airlines Flight 17's black boxes, which could contain essential clues for determining how the plane was brought down. Earlier, pro-Russian separatists had announced their intention to hand over the jet's cockpit voice recorder and its flight data recorder to Moscow for analysis.

It would be insane if Russia Putin decides to go against the wishes of the country that lost it's own aircraft. I mean, c'mon.

 

[Sayter]

Welcome to western propaganda, glad there are still people who don't fall for it and can make up their own mind.

Because the news coming out of Russia is a bastion of credibility.

People can add 1 + 1.

 

[Sadist]

United States? If true 23 American citizens

Won't happen.

But I do know that this will spur discussions in western Europe and the growing problems surrounding Russia. Putin is slipping.

 

[LNBL]

US has concluded the jet has been shot down by a surfaced rocket @ CNN

 

[Kurdel]

People need to stop posting about WW3 in this thread, your fears/wishes about living through a World War are stupid. It likely won't happen and a shoot-down incident will not start something like this (I don't care what happened to Franz Ferdinand that excuse is stupid).

I would love for drive by WWIII posts be prohibited.

 

[antonz]

I think these air line companies that are flying this corridor need to be responsible to an extent.You have military aircraft being shot down in the air space and still have flights flying through. It was clear since the end of June that the separatists had good AA. Seems like the airlines need to be held accountable for this as well to an extent.

Apparently there was a warning to not fly below 32,000 feet. MH17 was at 33,000 Feet. At that height they should have been safe from danger since MANPADs etc. cannot reach that height. They failed to consider Russia giving more sophisticated stuff like AA Vehicles even though Russia has been supplying GRADs, Tanks, AA etc. for weeks now

 

[Enduin]

It would be insane if Russia decides to go against the wishes of the country that lost it's own aircraft. I mean, c'mon.

This is Putin's Russia we are taking about. I wouldn't be surprised by much of anything.

 

[Koppai]

This shit is just sick. Makes me never want to get on a plane. I went to live leak and saw the footage, made me feel sick

Just horrible...fucking war shit is the problem of this world.

 

[Mr.Mike]

People need to stop posting about WW3 in this thread, your fears/wishes about living through a World War are stupid. It likely won't happen and a shoot-down incident will not start something like this (I don't care what happened to Franz Ferdinand that excuse is stupid).

.

Franz Ferdinand's death exploded because all of the pieces were in place for a major war to happen. The situation today with nukes and what not makes WW3 almost impossible.

 

[WonkyPanda]

US has concluded the jet has been shot down by a surfaced rocket @ CNN

Seems like they have two data points: the SAM's activation and heat signature prior to downing of flight.

 

[vas_a_morir]

People need to stop posting about WW3 in this thread, your fears/wishes about living through a World War are stupid. It likely won't happen and a shoot-down incident will not start something like this (I don't care what happened to Franz Ferdinand that excuse is stupid).

He was royalty anyway, it's not even close to comparable.

 

[Big-E]

Apparently there was a warning to not fly below 32,000 feet. MH17 was at 33,000 Feet. At that height they should have been safe from danger since MANPADs etc. cannot reach that height. They failed to consider Russia giving more sophisticated stuff like AA Vehicles even though Russia has been supplying GRADs, Tanks, AA etc. for weeks now

These companies should have known that they had more advanced AA as the separatist tweeted that they have them and the fact that numerous aircraft have been shot down this week even. If I had relatives or friends on this flight I would be beyond angry with Malaysian Airlines.

 

[Mully]

I would love for drive by WWIII posts be prohibited.

I don't get the logic around the WW3 posts.

[New Thread about small incident (in context of WW3) or war.]

[Poster: WW3? Boy wouldn't that be interesting... I mean terrifying. I would get to live out my video game fantasies in real life! I can almost feel something bad is going to happen. Hopefully it's a world war!]

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Accident? Like it would have been legal had it been a military craft? They're terrorists, they don't have any authority to launch missiles, they don't control air space.

Yes, accident...as in had they known it was a commercial jet, they wouldn't have blew it the fuck up.

I think these air line companies that are flying this corridor need to be responsible to an extent.You have military aircraft being shot down in the air space and still have flights flying through. It was clear since the end of June that the separatists had good AA. Seems like the airlines need to be held accountable for this as well to an extent.

I agree.

 

[perfectchaos007]

Won't happen.

But I do know that this will spur discussions in western Europe and the growing problems surrounding Russia. Putin is slipping.

Discussions should have begun long ago. Serious discussions, and actions even. It should have never escalated to this point, and the writing was on the wall. I've always pegged Putin's sanity just a notch above Kim Jong Un

 

[brian577]

I would love for drive by WWIII posts be prohibited.

Seconded.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Seconded.

FWIW, those posts and posters are always shoo'd away and their silly suggestions shut down.

 

[CoolOff]

I would love for drive by WWIII posts be prohibited.

Co-signed.

 

[FStop7]

If Russia is behind this, how much of a chance is there to remove them from the UN Security Council permanent status?

Absolutely zero. The USSR shot down a South Korean airliner in the early 80s. The USA shot down an Iranian airliner several years later. Nothing ever comes of it other than some international outcry. Nothing will be done. Global powers can kill innocents with impunity because everybody fears them.

People need to stop posting about WW3 in this thread, your fears/wishes about living through a World War are stupid. It likely won't happen and a shoot-down incident will not start something like this (I don't care what happened to Franz Ferdinand that excuse is stupid).

If KAL 007, which happened during a period of high tension between the USA and USSR, didn't start WW3 then this sure as hell isn't going to, either.

 

[ConfusingJazz]

I think these air line companies that are flying this corridor need to be responsible to an extent.You have military aircraft being shot down in the air space and still have flights flying through. It was clear since the end of June that the separatists had good AA. Seems like the airlines need to be held accountable for this as well to an extent.

The problem is that it's one of the most important corridors in the world. It's the main flight path between Europe and Asia.

The FAA had banned US airlines over Crimea and the Black Sea, but not over Eastern Ukraine.

Was this because of the danger? Nope. This was because Ukraine and Russia had inconsistent authority over civilian air traffic. Airlines routinely go over conflict zones.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...space-flights-over-conflict-zones-are-common/

And the problem with this route is that it's one of the most important in the world, the one that connects the European hubs to South and South East Asian hubs.

http://www.businessinsider.com/cruc...aign=Feed:+businessinsider+(Business+Insider)

 

[-PXG-]

That Live Leak video....

God damn. I hope they didn't suffer. What a way to go out....oh man

RIP

 

[Gemüsepizza]

Apparently there was a warning to not fly below 32,000 feet. MH17 was at 33,000 Feet. At that height they should have been safe from danger since MANPADs etc. cannot reach that height. They failed to consider Russia giving more sophisticated stuff like AA Vehicles even though Russia has been supplying GRADs, Tanks, AA etc. for weeks now

And again you are making up stuff. If the rebels have an AA vehicle, they stole it from the Ukrainian army.

 

[Summer Haze]

Jesus, my friend died on MH370. Now it seems like another person I know died on MH17 :/

EDIT: Yep, confirmed. She died.

What the fuck man.

Fuck, what are the odds of that? I'm so sorry for your loss.

Were you close friends? If you don't mind me asking....

 

[antonz]

And again you are making up stuff. If the rebels have an AA vehicle, they stole it from the Ukrainian army.

Oh go away you Russian troll. Videos are posted every fucking day of Russian armor crossing the border.

 

[SocksForWoks]

Horrible news.

 

[DUFFMCWALIN]

And again you are making up stuff. If the rebels have an AA vehicle, they stole it from the Ukrainian army.

Can you confirm that for us?

 

[ape2man]

And again you are making up stuff. If the rebels have an AA vehicle, they stole it from the Ukrainian army.

Now, you are making stuff up. How do you know this? you don't. No body knows shit yet.

 

[Big-E]

The problem is that it's one of the most important corridors in the world. It's the main flight path between Europe and Asia.

The FAA had banned US airlines over Crimea and the Black Sea, but not over Eastern Ukraine.

Was this because of the danger? Nope. This was because Ukraine and Russia had inconsistent authority over civilian air traffic. Airlines routinely go over conflict zones.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...space-flights-over-conflict-zones-are-common/

And the problem with this route is that it's one of the most important in the world, the one that connects the European hubs to South and South East Asian hubs.

http://www.businessinsider.com/cruc...aign=Feed:+businessinsider+(Business+Insider)

I understand that most likely things won't be a problem over conflict zones but there have been numerous military aircraft shot down by the separatists in the area. As a layman it seems highly negligent to be flying over an area where planes are being shot down and the command structure on the ground is suspect at best. I know how most aa separatists have can not hit at the altitudes of commercial airlines but people knew that the separatists had AA capable of reaching that height and beyond. It seems the entire aviation world was trusting separatists with the safety or the airzone and that to me seems like trusting a 2 year with gasoline and a lighter.

 

[CrunchyB]

And again you are making up stuff. If the rebels have an AA vehicle, they stole it from the Ukrainian army.

You don't know that, you're speculating as well!

We know military personnel and supplies have entered Ukraine via Russia, so it's hardly a stretch.

 

[Nilaul]

Can you confirm that for us?

My mothers friend who works for the janitor of...

 

[Summer Haze]

Oh fuck....why did I watch that LiveLeak video? Every time curiosity gets the better of me, and every time I regret it. They're opening the passports of the victims in front of the camera, some of them looked like children/pre-teens

This is tragic. RIP to those lost.

 

[Zukuu]

I think these air line companies that are flying this corridor need to be responsible to an extent.You have military aircraft being shot down in the air space and still have flights flying through. It was clear since the end of June that the separatists had good AA. Seems like the airlines need to be held accountable for this as well to an extent.

they were WAY WAY above the "military zone".

 

[TheContact]

And again you are making up stuff. If the rebels have an AA vehicle, they stole it from the Ukrainian army.

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2014/07/229270.htm

The US dept of state seems pretty concerned that this happening

Available information indicates Moscow has recently transferred some Soviet-era tanks and artillery to the separatists and that over the weekend several military vehicles crossed the border.

In addition, after recapturing several Ukrainian cities last weekend, Ukrainian officials discovered caches of weapons that they assert came from Russia, including MANPADS, mines, grenades, MREs, vehicles, and a pontoon bridge.

Just some of what's bulleted.

Then again the separatists admit to capturing a SAM from Ukraine on the 29th of June, that could have been it. Or maybe it's both, who knows. I'm sure they will find out what happened in time

 

[Morfeo]

.

Franz Ferdinand's death exploded because all of the pieces were in place for a major war to happen. The situation today with nukes and what not makes WW3 almost impossible.

This is very undercommunicated. The first world war wasnt just a coincidence . it was going to happen no matter what, it was just a question of what would spark it.

 

[Big-E]

they were WAY WAY above the "military zone".

Again, the separatists were on twitter of all things bragging that they had AA capable of hitting at that distance and beyond. It seems that the aviation world trusted the separatists with holding safety in the area which to me seems highly negligent.

 

[Carn82]

I think these air line companies that are flying this corridor need to be responsible to an extent.You have military aircraft being shot down in the air space and still have flights flying through. It was clear since the end of June that the separatists had good AA. Seems like the airlines need to be held accountable for this as well to an extent.

Well, it was supposed to be safe; which it had been since the beginning of this conflict. If planes arent allowed to fly over certain dangerous zones it would make flight logistics really difficult (half of the middle east is a war zone ;P). I do agree with you tho

 

[Zukuu]

liveleak video shows the passport of a 12 year old, dutch girl. =/

 

[captainnapalm]

Strelkov and Gubarev both posted that they shot the plane down but thought it was another Ukrainian Transport plane. Once it was revealed to be civilian they tried to erase it all

I know the strongest evidence right now points to the separatists. They have been shooting down planes, and did seemingly claim responsibility for shooting one down today - albeit a An-26.

As for complaints from people about mentioning WW3, if those are aimed at me, I wasn't trying to be sensationalistic. It's just the post I saw on that Ukranian website that mentioned it was kind of unsettling. This is potentially a very serious incident in terms of the world powers without needing to invoke doomsday scenarios.

 

[Carn82]

liveleak video shows the passport of a 12 year old, dutch girl. =/

thats from Russian TV footage earlier today. Also showed a 14/15 year old dutch boy, and a malaysian dude. really unprofessional.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

Can you confirm that for us?

You don't know that, you're speculating as well!

We know military personnel and supplies have entered Ukraine via Russia, so it's hardly a stretch.

Now, you are making stuff up. How do you know this? you don't. No body knows shit yet.

Really guys? There was proof that showed that the rebels stole an AA-vehicle from the army. It would be pretty stupid of the Russians to give them one of their own vehicles, because it can easily be sourced back to them.

Oh go away you Russian troll. Videos are posted every fucking day of Russian armor crossing the border.

How am I trolling? There is no evidence that the rebels have AA vehicles supplied by the Russians. Yet you are the one coming up with posts in which you are constantly making up stuff, for example as I pointed out here, where you claim that "there are no Ukrainian rebels". only "Russian soldiers". It is very clear that you absolutely hate Russia up to a point that it clouds your judgement and makes you believe *every* bad thing about Russia, even if there is absolutely no evidence.

 

[antonz]

thats from Russian TV footage earlier today. Also showed a 14/15 year old dutch boy, and a malaysian dude. really unprofessional.

That's the Russian press for you. While they do all that they also tamper with the accident scene shifting stuff around etc.

 

[gutter_trash]

why did i click? I saw half a second and closed it, disgusting

 

[Komo]

liveleak video shows the passport of a 12 year old, dutch girl. =/

Huh? I've seen the video, but I didn't see anything like that

 

[devilhawk]

The problem is that it's one of the most important corridors in the world. It's the main flight path between Europe and Asia.

The FAA had banned US airlines over Crimea and the Black Sea, but not over Eastern Ukraine.

Was this because of the danger? Nope. This was because Ukraine and Russia had inconsistent authority over civilian air traffic. Airlines routinely go over conflict zones.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...space-flights-over-conflict-zones-are-common/

And the problem with this route is that it's one of the most important in the world, the one that connects the European hubs to South and South East Asian hubs.

http://www.businessinsider.com/cruc...aign=Feed:+businessinsider+(Business+Insider)

Flying over Afghanistan and Western Pakistan is a thing?

 

[Cloudy]

I just saw a US Senator (Mark Kirk) blame Obama for this because "it happened on his watch"

 

[Sadist]

Discussions should have begun long ago. Serious discussions, and actions even. It should have never escalated to this point, and the writing was on the wall. I've always pegged Putin's sanity just a notch above Kim Jong Un

Hah, I failed to include the word further in there. Russia has been a point of discussion for a long time and everybody knows Putin has been trying to gather goodwill for a long, long time. Last year with the Winter Olympics, in four years with the football World Cup... and his constant talks with Merkel can't happen without a camera observing it.

Still, Europe is done I'd say with his antics.

You know, he was a crazy drunk, but I miss Jeltsin. You could give him a bottle of wodka and he'd be happy for the rest of the evening.

 

[FStop7]

I just saw a US Senator (Mark Pryor) blame Obama for this because "it happened on his watch"

It was on his watch, too. What a fucking loser.