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[Sharpeye]

The noose is already around the seperatist's neck, it's only a matter of time before someone kicks the chair right underneath them.

 

[Midnight Phoenix]

Maybe I'm being very naive here, but this is still Ukraine, and if the Ukrainian government gave them permission, could the Dutch and Malaysians not take over this under their own military auspices, and do so immediately?

I mean, what, these separatists will attack Dutch or Malaysians then?

This situation is ridiculous. The Dutch and/or Malaysians should have been allowed take a handle of this area under their own military protection from day one.

President can ask for military support from other countries, but I don't know about full procedure. People asking for this, even before Russia invaded Crimea.

 

[gofreak]

I mean, these are separatists, some without clear or agreed upon agendas or goals, being led with weapons they clearly have not been trained to use properly. There's really no way to predict HOW they would react. I mean, they've been firing in the air and shit to prevent any investigators from getting close, these are not people thinking about anything but covering up what they did. I'm sure they could be quickly overrun, but they have probably already corrupted so much of the evidence that it would be a rather pointless affair. Passports, blackbox, etc have all been reported to have gone missing iirc.

Yes, there is a certain amount of damage done at this point, but it's something I expected immediately after the crash. I honestly thought there'd be Dutch boots on the ground there within 24 hours, with the complete blessing of the Ukranian government (i.e. technically within keeping of international law).

The separatists are cowboys, but they wouldn't start shit with Dutch or Malaysian military. They'd sit down and keep quiet. Their Russian friends would tell them so. The visitors would be there for a week or two tops, get what they need, leave, and these idiots can get back to their stupid conflict.

 

[Nicktendo86]

BBC news just said the EU/international community is fast losing patience with Putin, will believe it when I see some meaningful action.

Seeming relatives react on tv keeps getting me teared up, whole families wiped out in an instant by some drunken lunatics.

 

[kess]

OSCE - Latest from the Special Monitoring Mission (SMM) in Ukraine based on information received until 18 July 18:00 (Kyiv time)

.

 

[Amir0x]

Yes, there is a certain amount of damage done at this point, but it's something I expected immediately after the crash. I honestly thought there'd be Dutch boots on the ground there within 24 hours, with the complete blessing of the Ukranian government (i.e. technically within keeping of international law).

The separatists are cowboys, but they wouldn't start shit with Dutch or Malaysian military. They'd sit down and keep quiet. Their Russian friends would tell them so. The visitors would be there for a week or two tops, get what they need, leave, and these idiots can get back to their stupid conflict.

I mean, who would have thought they'd shoot down a passenger plane with 298 people on board? I'd love to say you're probably right, but it seems these separatists are morons. In the most literal sense of the word.

 

[Fiktion]

If these "separatists" weren't white, we'd call them terrorists.

 

[gofreak]

I mean, who would have thought they'd shoot down a passenger plane with 298 people on board? I'd love to say you're probably right, but it seems these separatists are morons. In the most literal sense of the word.

I think this was a misidentification of the plane. I do not think they intended to shoot down a passenger plane, and thought it was a Ukrainian military plane. They realised they f-ed up badly with this, they're not proud of it. If Dutch/Malaysians arrived, I think they would probably keep their heads down.

I'm wondering, though, if the Dutch have been cautioned against pressing for this kind of military access, because ANY risk of a hothead doing something stupid would be too dangerous for what it would mean for their allies (NATO), and dragging in a wider community into a conflict. Maybe any risk of that is too big a risk.

The Dutch are probably fuming at their hands apparently being tied, if that's the case. I would be anyway in their shoes.

 

[i-Lo]

If these "separatists" weren't white, we'd call them terrorists.

True but would it have changed drastically how the rest of the world reacted to it?

I think this was a misidentification of the plane. I do not think they intended to shoot down a passenger plane, and thought it was a Ukrainian military plane. They realised they f-ed up badly with this, they're not proud of it. If Dutch/Malaysians arrived, I think they would probably keep their heads down.

I'm wondering, though, if the Dutch have been cautioned against pressing for this kind of military access, because ANY risk of a hothead doing something stupid would be too dangerous for what it would mean for their allies (NATO), and dragging in a wider community into a conflict. Maybe any risk of that is too big a risk.

The Dutch are probably fuming at their hands apparently being tied, if that's the case. I would be anyway in their shoes.

It's all just speculation at this point. Regardless of the intention, many people have lost their lives who had nothing to do with the conflict. As such the responsible people must be brought to justice.

 

[Amir0x]

I think this was a misidentification of the plane. I do not think they intended to shoot down a passenger plane, and thought it was a Ukrainian military plane. They realised they f-ed up badly with this, they're not proud of it. If Dutch/Malaysians arrived, I think they would probably keep their heads down.

I mean, that's because they're morons though. That confirms my theory. I'm not sure how you misidentify a plane like that unless you're an untrained moron, which they are!

So my fear is that, being the untrained morons they are, they would do more moronic things, like feel no fear in shooting at Dutch or Malaysia individuals. They might say they thought they were Ukrainian investigators or some shit, being the completely inept stupid fucks they are ;P

I'm wondering, though, if the Dutch have been cautioned against pressing for this kind of military access, because ANY risk of a hothead doing something stupid would be too dangerous for what it would mean for their allies (NATO), and dragging in a wider community into a conflict. Maybe any risk of that is too big a risk.

The Dutch are probably fuming at their hands apparently being tied, if that's the case. I would be anyway in their shoes.

I don't actually know what risk any of these countries at this point think is going to occur from this though. Do people think Putin really wants a wider war? In every way, if this continues to grow, it'll only hurt Russia. They have gained almost nothing so far from this entire conflict, except more permanent access to those Black Sea routes. Everything else has been a net negative, which even Putin has begun to begrudgingly acknowledge in his pullback on some of the rhetoric they were playing at.

This has gone places I think even they cannot be happy about, but now it's too far.

 

[LNBL]

 

[Chittagong]

This may sound tinfoilish, but could this event be meant to provoke West to get drawn in to war? Putin's staff has in the recent year made it clear there are wrongs they want to right (Finland and Baltic countries not being Russia, for example), and they know well the state of Nato and EU.

I have a Russian friend who is about to turn her passport in and abandon her nationality because of where she understands the nation is headed (she got a second nationality after living in another country for a few years).

Link:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-finland-for-russia-adviser-says-9224273.html

 

[HelloMeow]

If these "separatists" weren't white, we'd call them terrorists.

They have been called terrorists.

 

[Amir0x]

This may sound tinfoilish, but could this event be meant to provoke West to get drawn in to war? Putin's staff has in the recent year made it clear there are wrongs they want to right (Finland and Baltic countries not being Russia, for example), and they know well the state of Nato and EU.

I know this sounds outlandish, but I have a Russian friend who is about to turn her passport in and abandon her nationality because of where she understands the nation is headed (she got a second nationality after living in another country for a few years).

Link:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-finland-for-russia-adviser-says-9224273.html

There's just no realistic scenario in my view in which that's the road we're headed down. The world today is simply not the same as it was back when huge conflicts between superpowers used to occur in a more commonplace fashion. We're too interconnected now, and it's no longer necessary to "empire build" in order to secure critical trade routes and the like. Russia would not risk economic ruin for the relative benefits of receiving Finland or other Baltic countries. There's simply not enough upside for the almost incalculable downside.

 

[FStop7]

Calling them terrorists minimizes what they really are: a trained, paramilitary force backed by a world power.

 

[luckygodzilla]

Calling them terrorists minimizes what they really are: a trained, paramilitary force backed by a world power.

This, a thousand times this.

 

[Savitar]

There is nothing about this that isn't amazingly frustrating the more you hear about it.

All the power in the world and yet look at how this one thing can't be dealt with in a civilized way.

It should not have gotten to this point.

 

[KINGofCRA5H]

Calling them terrorists minimizes what they really are: a trained, paramilitary force backed by a world power.

Bingo. Makes it even more terrifying if you ask me.

 

[SymbiantXenos]

Cant comprehend the mental gymnastics needed to defend this. It's obvious who's to blame. Current actions now speak volumes.

 

[Zukuu]

Link:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-finland-for-russia-adviser-says-9224273.html

And the world will calmly watch. Appeasement policy worked well with Hitler, right? The EU should really bleed out Russia financially with heavy sanctions if Putin stays on this course. For that, a substitute for Russian gas needs to be found. I fear where this is heading.

 

[MacNille]

Please look after my dog
An air stewardess who died when Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 crashed in eastern Ukraine sent a final message to her family asking them to take care of her pet dog.
Angeline Premila Rajandran, a 30-year-old from the Malaysian city of Klang, was one of 298 people on the Boeing 777 when it went down on Thursday after apparently being hit by a surface-to-air missil.
Just minutes before the flight took off Ms Rajandran sent a message to her mother via the WhatsApp messaging service that said, “Look after my dog Lexi.”
“My mum is devastated as Angeline and the rest of us celebrated our mum’s birthday only two weeks ago,” Murphy Govind, her brother, was quoted as saying by The Star newspaper.
“My mother has locked herself in her room and has refused to come out ever since we heard about the news.”
Mr Govind described the agony of receiving a phone call from Malaysia Airlines at around 4am on Friday morning with the news that his sister’s plane had failed to land.
“It did not make any sense because the flight was supposed to land only at 6am.”
Friends described Ms Rajandran, who had also worked as a model for the Malaysian airline, as someone who loved travel and animals.
In March, she posted a photograph of her female dog, Lexi, on her Facebook page, alongside the caption: “My LiL Lexi”.
Annette Roman Vermani, a close friend of the air stewardess, said they had been making plans to get together. “Now it will not happen,” she said.
She said her friend was “good-natured, prim and proper”.
“We are all going to miss you Angeline Rest In Peace,” Guhanandan Selvadurai, a friend, wrote on Facebook.
On Saturday, Liow Tiong Lai, Malaysia’s transport minister, told reporters he would travel to Kiev to monitor investigations.
"We have sent our investigation team and we will make sure that they have a safe corridor to get to the debris field,” he told reporters in Kuala Lumpur.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...og-MH17-victims-last-words-to-her-family.html
This is just heartbreaking.

 

[Amir0x]

And the world will calmly watch. Appeasement policy worked well with Hitler, right? The EU should really bleed out Russia financially with heavy sanctions if Putin stays on this course. For that, a substitute for Russian gas needs to be found. I fear where this is heading.

God, Putin is not Hitler, and nobody in the world is appeasing Putin. We're not 'giving in' to Putin on anything. That comment was made back in March, and since then all the rhetoric has been toned way down, not up. This escalation with the airline flight going down is clearly only a headache for Russia being unable to control the bottle they uncorked. There's no upside to this situation.

And everyone has been putting sanctions on Russia. I'd argue we could use some stronger ones, but nobody is really appeasing Russia. There's just no one who is willing to start a war that would be as large as a war with Russia would be over a tiny slice of land like Crimea. People don't seem to understand the implications about such a choice. This isn't like going to Afghanistan, and even that didn't end too well.

The political comparison to Nazi Germany is frankly laughable at this stage.

 

[nephilimdj]

And the world will calmly watch. Appeasement policy worked well with Hitler, right? The EU should really bleed out Russia financially with heavy sanctions if Putin stays on this course. For that, a substitute for Russian gas needs to be found. I fear where this is heading.

Sanctions lead to the rise of Hilter

 

[Zukuu]

God, Putin is not Hitler, and nobody in the world is appeasing Putin. We're not 'giving in' to Putin on anything. That comment was made back in March, and since then all the rhetoric has been toned way down, not up. This escalation with the airline flight going down is clearly only a headache for Russia being unable to control the bottle they uncorked. There's no upside to this situation.

And everyone has been putting sanctions on Russia. I'd argue we could use some stronger ones, but nobody is really appeasing Russia. There's just no one who is willing to start a war that would be as large as a war with Russia would be over a tiny slice of land like Crimea. People don't seem to understand the implications about such a choice. This isn't like going to Afghanistan, and even that didn't end too well.

The political comparison to Nazi Germany is frankly laughable at this stage.

I don't compare him to Hitler. I just stated that "watching Russia taking half of eastern europe" isn't the way to go. I live in Germany and the last thing I want is war. In particular so close to home. That's why I said the sanctions need to be harder so he is economical unable to actually start any movement towards that course, IF he stays on that path.

 

[Amir0x]

I don't compare him to Hitler. I just stated that "watching Russia taking half of eastern europe" isn't the way to go. I live in Germany and the last thing I want is war. In particular so close to home. That's why I said the sanctions need to be harder so he is economical unable to actually start any movement towards that course.

Yeah, my bad if I chose your post to call out, it's just I think people are really irresponsibly throwing around comparisons to the 'appeasement' of Nazi Germany. This is not the same thing, and nothing that is occurring right now can really even be compared in any way. Pretty much every political element in place is different now then it was then. So must, therefore, our reactions be.

 

[LNBL]

Dutch news today showing what internationals have to work with when arriving at the crash site

"I will only warn you once. You are safe here...."

"... but who goes to far and does not follow my orders will see(?) (not sure how to translate)" He means that those who dont follow orders will see the what will happen next.

In this picture you see random people removing stuff from the crash site, nobody knows who they are and why they are doing that. Neither does anyone know what they will do with it and where they are taking it.

 

[Midnight Phoenix]

God, Putin is not Hitler, and nobody in the world is appeasing Putin. We're not 'giving in' to Putin on anything. That comment was made back in March, and since then all the rhetoric has been toned way down, not up. This escalation with the airline flight going down is clearly only a headache for Russia being unable to control the bottle they uncorked. There's no upside to this situation.

And everyone has been putting sanctions on Russia. I'd argue we could use some stronger ones, but nobody is really appeasing Russia. There's just no one who is willing to start a war that would be as large as a war with Russia would be over a tiny slice of land like Crimea. People don't seem to understand the implications about such a choice. This isn't like going to Afghanistan, and even that didn't end too well.

The political comparison to Nazi Germany is frankly laughable at this stage.

Agree, at least Hitler makes his country one of the most powerful in the world, before going insane and cross everything. And what does Putin?

 

[Amir0x]

Agree, at least Hitler makes his country one of the most powerful in the world, before going insane and cross everything. And what does Putin?

I think it was pretty clear Hitler was always fairly insane... or anyway was at least since the end of WWI, reading his obscene musing in Mein Kampf, at least as we're judging insanity here.

Putin isn't trying to do anything Hitler was trying to do though, which is why I can't even make the comparison go as far as your post is submitting here. There's nothing to really correlate with here. There is no real empire building going on here, no sort of mad political ideology corrupting sensible politics. And there's no economic situation that would compel a sort of madness to take over an entire people either.

I mean, I'm being extremely broad strokes here since there were so many causes for WWII, but my main point is that Putin is not Hitler, Russia is not Nazi Germany, and there is absolutely no reason anyone should be thinking about going to war right now.

 

[Knurek]

I mean, that's because they're morons though. That confirms my theory. I'm not sure how you misidentify a plane like that unless you're an untrained moron, which they are!

Not that I'm trying to excuse the morons, but hasn't US Navy (which, I hope, isn't full of morons) shot down an Iranian passenger jet few years ago?

Putin isn't trying to do anything Hitler was trying to do though, which is why I can't even make the comparison go as far as your post is submitting here. There's nothing to really correlate with here. There is no real empire building going on here, no sort of mad political ideology corrupting sensible politics. And there's no economic situation that would compel a sort of madness to take over an entire people either.

Out of curiosity, have you seen the material Russian State Media has been producing on Ukrainian conflict? Completely made up stories of Ukrainian military crucifying 3-year olds, raping Russian women, etc. Stuff that would make Goebbels proud.

 

[ambientric]

Comparisons to hitler, are with respect, the simplification and ignorance of history we expect from Americans (including American political leaders).

The European response to Putin, is nuanced. Based on both an acknowledgement of historical fact, appreciation of current economic context and an abhorrence of past conflict.

Above all else, avoidance of rhetoric or action that is likely to further destabilise the current situation.

 

[KingJolly]

So is it true. The pilot took his chances to get through the warzone unharmed?

 

[Baron Doggystyle von Woof]

Russians really just don't give a fuck. Truly a sad nation.

I feel so so sad for my fellow Dutch people. Can't even take the bodies back to Holland and bury them. Not even that bit respect? Fuck the rebels, fuck Putin and fuck Russian government in a whole.

 

[Prez]

Everything surrounding this is a big mess and not just those involved. Newspapers are shitbags for publishing photos of passports and dead bodies. Having the victims' Facebook photos all over front pages doesn't sit well with me either.

 

[Amir0x]

Not that I'm trying to excuse the morons, but hasn't US Navy (which, I hope, isn't full of morons) shot down an Iranian passenger jet few years ago?

I would certainly say the people involved in that incident were morons, yes. That entire thing was handled pathetically. But I do not know the details of that incident as intimately as I do the details of this one, so I'll refrain from going any deeper than that observation.

Out of curiosity, have you seen the material Russian State Media has been producing on Ukrainian conflict? Completely made up stories of Ukrainian military crucifying 3-year olds, raping Russian women, etc. Stuff that would make Goebbels proud.

Propaganda is the same throughout history. American propaganda against much of the Muslim world is similarly extreme, and similarly non-representative. And before any crazy conservatives try to say anything: I'm not making any judgments about which propaganda is worse, and of course Russia media is far more corrupt than even American media is. But again, this is simply a feeble attempt to try to connect dots to something that no dots need to be connected to, to make an already horrible tragedy seem potentially even more significant historically. It's just frankly a little reckless, and implicitly suggests a misunderstanding of specific past history and its causes.

Believe me, when you see something happening in this world that could lead to WWIII (or any conflict between major superpowers in this modern age) few will misunderstand the significance of the event they were witnessing that would lead to that.

 

[mcfrank]

Not that I'm trying to excuse the morons, but hasn't US Navy (which, I hope, isn't full of morons) shot down an Iranian passenger jet few years ago?



Out of curiosity, have you seen the material Russian State Media has been producing on Ukrainian conflict? Completely made up stories of Ukrainian military crucifying 3-year olds, raping Russian women, etc. Stuff that would make Goebbels proud.

Ugh I had never heard about that us ship shooting down a plane. Makes me sick as an American.

 

[jimi_dini]

So you think that if the Dutch investigators will find out who killed their compatriots they will just hide the truth?

How are they gonna find this out? At best they can find out that for example a BUK was used and the approximate location from where it was fired. How would anyone find the exact people, that operated it? It simply won't happen. Like I said - unless the people responsible show up and confess. Which is unlikely.

However what can be figured out is who's responsible for letting a civilian airplane fly over a warzone.

Btw, who do you think it was? Who shot down the plane? What's your feeling on that? (I expect a straight answer not a run around the bush, as you have strong opinions about the rest)

Why do you ask? I simply don't know. All I can do is to think why such a thing happened and what's plausible and what's less plausible.

I'm pretty sure that noone wanted to intentionally shoot down a civilian airplane. There is simply no motive to do so. The rebels have of course a motive to shoot down military airborne vehicles, because well they are getting shot up by those. It's war down there and lots of civilians were already killed by that "new" Ukrainian regime. Those victims were just "unworthy" eastern Ukraine civilians, so it wasn't "as bad" I guess.

Anyway Ukrainian military may have done it on accident. Wouldn't have been the first time. There were BUKs near the site, but they were all in control of Ukrainian military according to Ukraine themselves. http://odnastroka.ru/politics/5067-yarema-oproverg-zahvat-opolchencami-kompleksov-buk-i-s-300.html

If I was in charge of one of the victim countries, I would require Ukraine government to immediately let experts to those units, so that it can be proven, that those BUKs weren't used (if this even can be figured out). Won't happen of course because Europe is pro-Western-Ukraine and mass media already knows for sure that the rebels and/or Russia is responsible.

It also would make sense to listen to the communication between air traffic control and the airplane, but http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-28360784

Ukraine's SBU security service has confiscated recordings of conversations between Ukrainian air traffic control officers and the crew of the doomed airliner, a source in Kiev has told Interfax news agency.

I personally doubt that rebels are able to handle those things, even if they have or had access to one. You don't just press a button and something blows up. You need complicated training for it and you need a whole team operating those vehicles. But let's assume someone trained them for months and those trained rebels got one of those units. Let's assume Ukraine government is lying and they got control over one of those. Or let's assume that Russia gave them one. In that case they didn't have actual experience with this thing and thought that they were seeing a military vehicle and shot it down because of that.

Let's also add a conspiracy theory, that Russia somewhat did it themselves. Smuggled a BUK-team into Ukraine including a BUK (which is actually several vehicles, it's not some sort of rocketlauncher) to shoot down civilian airplanes. Doesn't make sense as well, because there is no reason for them to do so. Such a team would know what they are doing and have real-life experience with it. They would have a motive to help out the rebels and shoot down military airborne vehicles, but those experts would be able to differentiate between a civilian and a military airplane, so it makes even less sense unless you think that Russia is super evil and actually wanted to shoot down a civilian airplane (sadly I think there are multiple people ITT that actually think this).

Or maybe something completely different happened. Even the BUK usage is just a theory.

What I find interesting is that 2 AWACS were in combat duty during that time.
http://en.itar-tass.com/world/741356
Which means they should have been able to detect what's going on.

A total of two jets of the Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS) were on combat duty in the airspace over Romania and Poland Thursday at the moment the Boeing 777 jet of the Malaysian Airlines crashed in highly controversial circumstances in eastern Ukraine, a NATO source told ITAR-TASS.
...
The Donetsk region is swept by a military operation the Ukrainian authorities are conducting against local self-defense forces and supporters of federalization of the country. It has claimed the lives of several hundred civilians to date and has turned hundreds of thousands of others into refugees.

 

[luckygodzilla]

Comparisons to hitler, are with respect, the simplification and ignorance of history we expect from Americans (including American political leaders).

The European response to Putin, is nuanced. Based on both an acknowledgement of historical fact, appreciation of current economic context and an abhorrence of past conflict.

Above all else, avoidance of rhetoric or action that is likely to further destabilise the current situation.

That or the fact that they are petrified of Putin stopping the gas flow into Europe. There's nothing nuanced about it, they know, and so does Putin, that if Europe actually gets serious, they can kiss staying warm in the winter goodbye.

 

[Fiktion]

Comparisons to hitler, are with respect, the simplification and ignorance of history we expect from Americans (including American political leaders).

The European response to Putin, is nuanced.

Fuck off.

 

[Amir0x]

That or the fact that they are petrified of Putin stopping the gas flow into Europe. There's nothing nuanced about it, they know, and so does Putin, that if Europe actually gets serious, they can kiss staying warm in the winter goodbye.

why do people think this is only a one way problem? Do you realize the financial implosion that would actually occur in Russia if they stopped the flow of gas to Europe?

Russia is also being constantly squeezed by China. They do not exist in isolation, and they do not have a magical red button to force the world to do what it wants. It's just that this situation as it stands does not warrant the type of overreaction that would lead to a global war between superpowers.

 

[LNBL]

Dutch news saying the Seperatists securing the crash site are drunk and aggressive.

 

[Blablurn]

The families will never ever get those bodies back. It's a shame whats happening in the ukraine right now. I'm still shocked how the people in the Ukraine deal with all that.

 

[ambientric]

That or the fact that they are petrified of Putin stopping the gas flow into Europe. There's nothing nuanced about it, they know, and so does Putin, that if Europe actually gets serious, they can kiss staying warm in the winter goodbye.

From the position of your comfortable armchair, please detail what would be the appropriate European response. Please include all likely ramifications and outcomes of your detailed proposal.

 

[Fiktion]

From the position of your comfortable armchair, please detail what would be the appropriate European response. Please include all likely ramifications and outcomes of your detailed proposal.

You've already lost all credibility on this subject by projecting European "ignorance and simplification" onto Americans. Why keep digging?

 

[LNBL]

Malaysia Airline Europe just said they are not going to fly the families to the carsh site, it's too dangerous. They will re-assess in a week or 2.

Such a shame for the families

 

[ambientric]

Fuck off.

Fair point. Comparisons to hitler are made by simpletons the world over.

 

[syllogism]

Jimi_dini: You seem to be suggesting that Ukrainians operating a BUK (or a Ukrainian fighter) might have accidentally shot down the plane, but Russians would never do it because they are capable of differentiating between civilian and military airplanes? Is that correct? What is your working theory on what the Ukrainians thought they were aiming at, if we entertain your theory that it was their military that shot it down? It was a 777 flying from west to east, the separatists have no aircraft, and there were multiple civilian planes in the area.

There are multiple issues with your theories, including the fact that any conversations between aircraft control and MH17 would have been heard by a number of planes in the area, so the recordings being confiscated is a non-issue. In addition, in all likelihood the two AWACS were not in range of the plane when the incident happened, so your assertion that they should have been able to detect what happened is incorrect.

 

[Veritigo_X]

These Russian separatists have no aircraft so the Ukrainian military would have no reason to shoot anything in the sky down. Anyone presenting these theories are ignoring every fact presented so far and are doing some crazy mental gymnastics to make the Ukrainian military responsible for this.

 

[Midnight Phoenix]

I think it was pretty clear Hitler was always fairly insane... or anyway was at least since the end of WWI, reading his obscene musing in Mein Kampf, at least as we're judging insanity here.

Putin isn't trying to do anything Hitler was trying to do though, which is why I can't even make the comparison go as far as your post is submitting here. There's nothing to really correlate with here. There is no real empire building going on here, no sort of mad political ideology corrupting sensible politics. And there's no economic situation that would compel a sort of madness to take over an entire people either.

I mean, I'm being extremely broad strokes here since there were so many causes for WWII, but my main point is that Putin is not Hitler, Russia is not Nazi Germany, and there is absolutely no reason anyone should be thinking about going to war right now.

Oh, I see now what you trying to say. I must agree with you.

 

[JohnTinker]

Reports of explosions at a Moscow metro station, eyewitness claims two explosions

Video of the scene: http://instagram.com/p/qpLZQkBwuh/


https://twitter.com/lifenews_ru/status/490570938501849088

 

[commedieu]

Reports of explosions at a Moscow metro station, eyewitness claims two explosions

Video of the scene: http://instagram.com/p/qpLZQkBwuh/


https://twitter.com/lifenews_ru/status/490570938501849088

Clearly it was ukraine soldiers infiltrating russia.

Thats going to be the narrative, isn't it? God, I hope no one was hurt. This shit needs to stop.