Where can I watch this? With English VoiceOver or subtitles preferably...
Watching sky news at the moment but nothing at the moment.
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Malaysia Airlines flight en route from Amsterdam shot down over Ukraine; no survivors
- Thread starter alfredofroylan
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Where can I watch this? With English VoiceOver or subtitles preferably...
Watching sky news at the moment but nothing at the moment.
The handling of this is incredibly bad. Not to mention so incriminating.
| Praxis |
Banned
I think it was a phone call, so no footage. They just mentioned it on BBC news.
Would you prefer them to leave the bodies rotting in the sun?
Apparently the rebel gunmen have cleared away at least. This reporter's descriptions of the chaos at the crime scene are horrifying though:
https://twitter.com/shustry
https://twitter.com/shustry
This reads like something out of FOX news.
| Praxis |
Banned
The point is they have no idea who was taking the bodies, they didn't respond to any questioning, didn't even say where the bodies were being taken. If they gave full access to the site in the first place, less shady people would be there already helping to preserve the remains.
No. A secure Ukraine, so that this can not happen again.
Russians should very well retreat to their country.
Dutch Correspondent in Russia for RTL Olaf Koens is at the scene and is tweeting pictures on his Twitter. https://twitter.com/obk
From what I understand bodies get marked with a tree branch and a white ribbon
Olaf Koens @obk · 3m
Maar andere zaken zijn verdwenen. De paspoorten die de rebellen eerder toonden bijvoorbeeld. Of de zwarte doos.
"But other items have dissapeared. The passports that the rebels showed earlier for example. Or the black box"
From what I understand bodies get marked with a tree branch and a white ribbon
Olaf Koens @obk · 3m
Maar andere zaken zijn verdwenen. De paspoorten die de rebellen eerder toonden bijvoorbeeld. Of de zwarte doos.
"But other items have dissapeared. The passports that the rebels showed earlier for example. Or the black box"
Reporter on the ground with OSCE:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28384930
Only 1 person with American citizenship through dual nationality was killed. Still angry or does it not matter any more to you?
Just to be clear, exactly how many people would like to be killed before you'd consider "vengeance" satisfied?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28384930
Only 1 person with American citizenship through dual nationality was killed. Still angry or does it not matter any more to you?
Just to be clear, exactly how many people would like to be killed before you'd consider "vengeance" satisfied?
bonesmccoy
Banned
I had no idea leading up to this tragedy that the Donbass region had recently been 'invaded' by Ukraine, and that the Ukrainian forces had been encircled.
Is this being discussed at all on the big news sites?
Is this being discussed at all on the big news sites?
Preserve the remains? If history is anything to go by, somehow I just don't see that happening. Those bodies, they'll end up in a furnace or a massive hole in the ground, and no doubt the act will be covered up with bullshit lies and misinformation - nobody will find out where or how exactly the bodies were disposed of, but at some point in the future somebody will take credit for it. :/
Putin has the power to effect change in the rebel leadership, but is unable to get these guys the fuck away from the crash site. It's transparent as hell-- no wonder he's pissed.
GoldenEye 007
Member
That isn't the only alternative and you know it. Why ask such a question?
They can let investigators in and/or tell them where the bodies are.
GasProblem
Member
Putin won't acknowledge he has influence over these separtists, and even if he does, I don't think Putin has them on speed-dial and simply has to make a phone call and they give full-acces to the crash site. I don't think Putin will do anything.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Are you saying we should send American troops into Ukraine to directly confront these forces?
What makes you think I want vengeance satisfied? But technically, I would consider Putin a war criminal that will never be brought to justice. I feel horrible for the families. We should put a stop to any expansion of his influence.
He's lying to his people, Russian journalists resigning. Fight the spread of evil. This shouldn't be about vengeance.
it's a media report, right?
if it was me cleaning up that mess as a "grunt" i'd also never tell a reporter where the bodies go to (or talk to them at all, even if had crashed without being shot down) and imho the media has the same right on full access to the/a crash site as the guys who shot it down: none.
100% agreed that it's the wrong guys handling this, but collecting the humain remains and preventing the media from besieging the storage facility is nothing that i find apalling.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Even if the US decides to get more involved (if they haven't already) you guys know that we won't be able to know about it. It would all be covert action since direct confrontation would lead to escalation with Russia.
I think that would be an appropriate response, and yes. With the support of the international community or Ukraine.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
International community would never do that. Europe is too reliant on Russia.
This is seriously fucked up. Every story from this event is appalling.
Yeah...it really is.
And now more gunmen are going back to the crash site again:
jufonuk
not tag worthy
yes Aggression with Aggression never escalates
GoldenEye 007
Member
A commercial airliner was shot down and officials barred from securing the scene.
That's pretty damn aggressive.
Ah, I see.
Getting vengeance will be impossible, as it's not necessarily those who fired on the passenger planes that should be brought to justice. It's the ones who gave them orders to shoot down planes in a peaceful country.
I think it is at least fair to secure the area, given what happened. More than words should be used in response.
"Why I quit RT" [video]
RT journalist Sara Firth tells Channel 4 News why she quit the Kremlin-backed news provider - saying it was in response to RT's coverage of the MH17 crash.
Ms Firth told Channel 4 News that she believes RT was "disregarding the facts", and adds that she was not put onto stories about Ukraine because she is a journalist who "asks questions".
...
Ms Firth told Channel 4 News that she believes RT was "disregarding the facts", and adds that she was not put onto stories about Ukraine because she is a journalist who "asks questions".
...
I don't wish to be insensitive and talk about money in a situation such as this, since no amount will ever replace your loved ones. Still curious;
Don't airlines pay a certain amount to families when a crash happens? Who will be responsible in this scenario? I would assume they will make Russia pay the victims families(?)
Don't airlines pay a certain amount to families when a crash happens? Who will be responsible in this scenario? I would assume they will make Russia pay the victims families(?)
Malasyan will pay the standard €144K per victim.
Malaysian Arilines is paying an initial $5.000 to every next of kin to pay for their expenses to travel to the crash site if they want.
They can't make Russia pay anything. The US paid a settlement to every family (undisclosed) after they shot down the Iranian airliner.
TheContact
Member
Not to mention disrespectful. They can't even bury their loved ones because who knows where those bodies are going. I'd be FURIOUS if my dead loved one was being stacked on a truck of dead bodies and being hauled off to who knows where
I hope there's drones overhead Watching all this
SO initial $5k then the full $144k?
Oh yeah, I completely forgot about that incident. Based on wiki the U.S paid a total of US$131.8 million.
jufonuk
not tag worthy
I'm not saying it's not. it's a horrible act, but all the bitch slap the fuck out of Russia with Military action won't help either.. a damn cease fire needs to Happen Russia needs to pull out, people need to talk.
This is the latest map in English that I could find. It is of course outadated by now as things change rapidly. The main Ukrainian goal right now is to cut off the separatists from the Russian border. They are currently embroiled in a battle over Luhansk, which is where some of the separatists are making their last stand. (The other last stand being Donetsk).
I think the plane incident occurred a bit north of Snizhne, but don't quote me on that.
I'm not sure what the $144K is about, could be correct though.
The 5K was mentioned during a press conference at Schiphol
GasProblem
Member
There's a google map page with all the Dutch victims and their names and who they were and why they were on the flight..
Traumnovelle
Member
Link?
Stupid question and maybe already answered but how many commercial airlines fly over Ukraine territory ?
It's hard to believe it was the first one, isn't it ? Because let's say, there were 50 planes a day fying over that region. Why the hell would they suddenly take down this one ?
It's hard to believe it was the first one, isn't it ? Because let's say, there were 50 planes a day fying over that region. Why the hell would they suddenly take down this one ?
IIRC flightradar24 reported 2 other international flights in that area at the time of the incident.
GasProblem
Member
https://mapsengine.google.com/map/u/0/edit?mid=zYmWZjjFjqeI.k5yYInaoJDUc
And it's still being updated.
Yeah...it really is.
And now more gunmen are going back to the crash site again:
Seriously. They can't even give the grieving relatives any peace, not only are their belongings being disrespected, stolen, mishandled, but their bodies are going who knows where, the investigation is clearly being either intentionally or unintentionally bungled by sheer incompetence, and this is all stuck between some bullshit political quagmire started because Putin didn't know when to put a lid back on the monster he unleashed.
One fucked up shit story after another
Midnight Phoenix
Member
Not acknowledged lol. So someone without his knowledge give terrorists vehicles, weapons and assault Ukraine with Grad from Russian territory?
Yes, all russian TV is allowed to be present. If something happen, they are first who transported to place.
Maybe I'm being very naive here, but this is still Ukraine, and if the Ukrainian government gave them permission, could the Dutch and Malaysians not take over this under their own military auspices, and do so immediately?
I mean, what, these separatists will attack Dutch or Malaysians then?
This situation is ridiculous. The Dutch and/or Malaysians should have been allowed take a handle of this area under their own military protection from day one.
I mean, what, these separatists will attack Dutch or Malaysians then?
This situation is ridiculous. The Dutch and/or Malaysians should have been allowed take a handle of this area under their own military protection from day one.
I mean, these are separatists, some without clear or agreed upon agendas or goals, being led with weapons they clearly have not been trained to use properly. There's really no way to predict HOW they would react. I mean, they've been firing in the air and shit to prevent any investigators from getting close, these are not people thinking about anything but covering up what they did. I'm sure they could be quickly overrun, but they have probably already corrupted so much of the evidence that it would be a rather pointless affair. Passports, blackbox, etc have all been reported to have gone missing iirc.
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