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[RSP]

if you're posting a link in a language other than english around here, at least give us a short summary. please.

De foto van de man die op de rampplek van de MH17 een knuffel in de lucht hield, heeft wereldwijd voor verontwaardiging gezorgd. Maar het verhaal blijkt iets anders in elkaar te steken dan op het eerste gezicht lijkt.

The picture of the man who held a childrens toy into the air at the MH17 crash site has raised outratge around the world. However there is more to the story than what it looks like in the first place.

Vooral op Twitter werd met afschuw gereageerd op de foto's van separatisten die tussen de wrakstukken persoonlijke eigendommen van de omgekomen passagiers ophielden. 'Ziekmakend en walgelijk, alsof het trofeëen zijn', zo was een veelgehoorde reactie.

Especially on Twitter, people were disgusted by the pictures of the seperatists who were holding up personal belongings of the passengers while standing among the wreckage of the aircraft. "Sick and disgusting, like they are trophies" was a common response.

De video van de man met het aapje laat echter meer zien dan de foto. Zo is te zien dat de man inderdaad de knuffel van een van de slachtoffers omhoog houdt. Maar vervolgens neemt hij zijn pet af en slaat een kruisje.

The video shows more than the pictures, the man who holds the monkey takes of his hat and makes the sign of a cross over his chest.

Edit: From what I've seen in the video, he also puts down the monkey carefully, does not seem like they are being particularly disrespectful with the belongings.

De knuffelaap is overigens niet zomaar een knuffel. Het is Muco, mascotte voor de ongeneeslijke en dodelijke ziekte Cystic Fibrosis, ofwel taaislijmziekte.

The monkey is not an ordinary stuffed animal. He is called Muco, and is the mascot for Cystic Fibrosis. (http://mucofriends.com)

 

[Daemul]

Holy shit, that's really bad intoxicated. Smoking and flip the ash on the wrecks.

What?

 

[GoodCoffeeJoey]

Ukraine accused Russia on Saturday of assisting separatist rebels in destroying evidence at the crash site of a Malaysia Airlines plane shot down with 298 people on board.

The government in Kyiv said militiamen have removed 38 bodies from the crash site and have taken them to the rebel-held city of Donetsk. It says the bodies were transported with the assistance of specialists with distinct Russian accents.

The rebels are also "seeking large transports to carry away plane fragments to Russia," the Ukrainian government said in a statement.

Ukraine also called on Moscow to insist that the pro-Russia rebels grant international experts the ability to conduct a thorough, impartial investigation into the downing of the plane — a demand that U.S. President Barack Obama also issued Friday from Washington.

An international delegation visited the crash site Friday evening but was only allowed to view one small portion. While the delegation was leaving under orders from armed rebel overseers, two Ukrainian members lingered to look at a fragment of the plane, prompting a militiaman to fire a warning shot in the air with his Kalashnikov.

Daniel Baer, the U.S. ambassador to the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe, complained that what he termed "Russian proxies" in Ukraine had failed to give safe access to and tampered with evidence at the crash site.

Malaysia's transport minister says the country is "deeply concerned" that the site "has not been properly secured."

Liow Tiong Lai said at a news conference Saturday in Kuala Lumpur that "the integrity of the site has been compromised, and there are indications that vital evidence has not been preserved in place."

He called for immediate access for Malaysia's team at the site to retrieve human remains. He said "we need the support of the world to ensure that the site is not tampered, that we have access to the site."

Liow, who again defended Malaysia Airlines flying in Ukrainian airspace, said a Malaysian team arrived in Kyiv earlier Saturday, two days after the plane went down.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/malays...destroy-crash-evidence-ukraine-says-1.2712030

 

[iceatcs]

What?

yeah, really bad. I wish some journalists told them off but they got AK47.

 

[neorej]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/malays...destroy-crash-evidence-ukraine-says-1.2712030

At this point, I feel we can safely assume the terrorist scum are responsible for taking down the plane. I'm in favor of sending in seal team six, extract the leader and go zero dark thirty on his ass.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

I hesitate to call Sweden a "pussy country", what with Gustavus II Adolphus the Great and helping to reorientate most of Europe.

 

[Slackbladder]

Watching the video, it shows him holding the monkey... then he places it down, takes his hat off and crosses himself.

Shows how a picture can be taken many ways.

Indeed. However they should'nt really be touching ANYTHING at a crash site. The only exception is taking bodies into refrigeration/morgue to prevent decomposition. But place of body needs to be mapped. Apart from that the site should not be tampered with at all for any reason until specialist/investigators arrive. And when they do let them do their jobs. The eyes of the world are watching.

 

[Kandrick]

Some pussy country like Sweden or Switzerland who don't like to piss off anyone would be ideal.

Or maybe the Malaysians but they'd probably just be incompetent.

What the fuck.

 

[Midnight Phoenix]

Watching the video, it shows him holding the monkey... then he places it down, takes his hat off and crosses himself.

Shows how a picture can be taken many ways.

Yes, nice play on the camera.

 

[FeD.nL]

So these fuckers are saying they haven't found the black boxes and even go as far as saying that people died before de incident, because the blood had allready dried up on some of the corpses.

Scum of the earth, they better make sure all the corpses return home.

 

[petran79]

Sweden only had eleven wars with Russia. It also doesn't have special friendly relations with Russia at the moment and is a member of the European Union.

Sweden didnt get along with Denmark and Norway either

 

[Joni]

Sweden didnt get along with Denmark and Norway either

Yes, but they get a long a bit better now. Norway and Denmark don't use Sweden for target practice.

 

[MisterFalcon]

Watching the video, it shows him holding the monkey... then he places it down, takes his hat off and crosses himself.

Shows how a picture can be taken many ways.

That's the same local milita leader who sent away the international team while ranting about how Kiev and Podoshenko are not in charge but he is. A thug with a gun who is high on being in charge and knowing daddy Putin will come help him out if anyone with a bigger gun comes in.

 

[NH Apache]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/malays...destroy-crash-evidence-ukraine-says-1.2712030

Removed bodies? Wtf! The poor families. How long will it be until they are able to get closure? Scum.

 

[MaxwellGames]

Or Ukraine. Or the Novorussians who managed to obtain the equipment from Ukraine. An independent investigation is necessary. But at the end of the day, it's an accident. Nobody intended to kill almost 300 people having nothing to do with the conflict flying over the country. That's why I think it matters less who did it and matters more who is responsible for the conflict and for the plane flying over it.

*cough* BULLSHIT *cough*

Firing a military grade anti air missile with the intentions of downing a plane filled with people, be it troop transport or civilian in this case, is NOT accidental.

100% intentional. That's why the Russians are scrambling to cover their tracks. They know damn well that this could spiral out of control quickly for them as more nation get involved in the investigations.

Especially when it's going to come to light that Russia has been training, backing them and providing them with equipment.

 

[BrokenEchelon]

Good to know that if I get killed in an act of terrorism, my President will do exactly nothing to avenge my death and bring those responsible to justice.

Thanks Obama.

Or Ukraine. Or the Novorussians who managed to obtain the equipment from Ukraine. An independent investigation is necessary. But at the end of the day, it's an accident. Nobody intended to kill almost 300 people having nothing to do with the conflict flying over the country. That's why I think it matters less who did it and matters more who is responsible for the conflict and for the plane flying over it.

You are argument #1 for why free speech is a bad thing.

 

[syllogism]

Or Ukraine. Or the Novorussians who managed to obtain the equipment from Ukraine. An independent investigation is necessary. But at the end of the day, it's an accident. Nobody intended to kill almost 300 people having nothing to do with the conflict flying over the country. That's why I think it matters less who did it and matters more who is responsible for the conflict and for the plane flying over it.

Not intended to shoot down a civilian passenger plane, almost certainly, but whoever did it was absolutely grossly negligent.

 

[caramac]

Quote from the Guardian website

It was not just the human passengers that died. An unlikely menagerie of dead pets lay strewn across the scene in the grass, bright blue and yellow macaws, a cockatoo, a random giant St Bernard dog curled peacefully where he fell.

 

[Kenshin001]

Removed bodies? Wtf! The poor families. How long will it be until they are able to get closure? Scum.

They took them to a morgue which is what they should do. Though really there should be an international team handling it. The Russians did the same thing when they shot down the Korean flight, lied, hid evidence, impeded the investigation. They have no shame.

 

[Enron]

Or Ukraine. Or the Novorussians who managed to obtain the equipment from Ukraine. An independent investigation is necessary. But at the end of the day, it's an accident. Nobody intended to kill almost 300 people having nothing to do with the conflict flying over the country. That's why I think it matters less who did it and matters more who is responsible for the conflict and for the plane flying over it.

Holy shit, amazing.

They took them to a morgue which is what they should do. Though really there should be an international team handling it. The Russians did the same thing when they shot down the Korean flight, lied, hid evidence, impeded the investigation. They have no shame.

The rest of the world is never going to get access to the crash site until it has been sanitized of all bodies and larger pieces of debris. In other words, made useless. Not like we need them though - we know what happened.

 

[jelly]

What should the international community actually do ?

UN peacekeepers and sanctions seem like the only options and the latter is somewhat in effect when Russia invaded Ukraine.

European countries could look to alternate long term resources that don't come from Russia but that isn't a quick change.

That's all I can think of. It's very tempting to call Russia's bluff, they have gone way too far on many occasions but there is always risk escalating tensions. They are never going to change, Putin and his mates have that place top to bottom and any replacements have similar agendas.

 

[Joey Fox]

Good to know that if I get killed in an act of terrorism, my President will do exactly nothing to avenge my death and bring those responsible to justice.

Thanks Obama.

Hear hear.

Are all of the passengers confirmed yet? What happened to the supposed 21 Americans on the manifest? Not seeing anything on the news about it.

 

[WolfStark]

Good to know that if I get killed in an act of terrorism, my President will do exactly nothing to avenge my death and bring those responsible to justice.

Thanks Obama.

It's not his job to "avenge" your death. He's not the Punisher, he's a politician and his job is to make politics. Come down to earth.

 

[Uzzy]

What should the international community actually do ?

UN peacekeepers and sanctions seem like the only options and the latter is somewhat in effect when Russia invaded Ukraine.

European countries could look to alternate long term resources that don't come from Russia but that isn't a quick change.

That's all I can think of. It's very tempting to call Russia's bluff, they have gone way too far on many occasions but there is always risk escalating tensions. They are never going to change, Putin and his mates have that place top to bottom and any replacements have similar agendas.

Hopefully this could give the EU the kick up the backside it's needed to have a coherent, joined up foreign policy and energy reforms.

It won't though.

 

[Chittagong]

It's unfortunate US and EU are detoriated to a state where they are unable to take decisive action against Russia. Watch this thing just gradually slide, with little ramifications to Russia.

Putin's Russia is escalating every month. It should be shown its place before all hell breaks loose. Missile up that Eastern border of EU, get the remaining countries along the border to Nato and show some spine.

 

[LNBL]

Number of flowers at the Dutch embassy in Ukraine is still growing

 

[Arksy]

Number of flowers at the Dutch embassy in Ukraine is still growing

:'(

 

[petran79]

Yes, but they get a long a bit better now. Norway and Denmark don't use Sweden for target practice.

In Greece there are constant dog fights between Greek and Turkish F-16 fighters.
Some ended up in casualties as well.

I even saw a Turkish F-16 fly above us on an greek island near the border.

Had those countries spent the military budget on education, health and welfare, they'd be like Sweden instead of the dire situation they're now....

At least Russian tourists are coming!

 

[dave_m123]

Quote from the Guardian website

 

[Tamanon]

Hear hear.

Are all of the passengers confirmed yet? What happened to the supposed 21 Americans on the manifest? Not seeing anything on the news about it.

There weren't 21 Americans on the plane. There was a 1 Dutch/American.

 

[Stinkles]

Good to know that if I get killed in an act of terrorism, my President will do exactly nothing to avenge my death and bring those responsible to justice.

Thanks Obama..

Are you fucking ten?

 

[Dilly]

It's unfortunate US and EU are detoriated to a state where they are unable to take decisive action against Russia. Watch this thing just gradually slide, with little ramifications to Russia.

Putin's Russia is escalating every month. It should be shown its place before all hell breaks loose. Missile up that Eastern border of EU, get the remaining countries along the border to Nato and show some spine.

This thread is bulking with great ideas.

 

[| Praxis |]

Removing bodies (allegedly) and leaving others to decompose in the summer heat, restricting access to the crash site and firing warning shots while being pissed on the job... Indefensible.

 

[Chariot]

It's unfortunate US and EU are detoriated to a state where they are unable to take decisive action against Russia. Watch this thing just gradually slide, with little ramifications to Russia.

Putin's Russia is escalating every month. It should be shown its place before all hell breaks loose. Missile up that Eastern border of EU, get the remaining countries along the border to Nato and show some spine.

Go for a bloody war that would cost thousands, maybe millions of lifes. Or are you a... CHICKEN?

No seriously, there is a reason, why political leaders are dancing around the issue and all sides regulary take steps back to not escalate things past a certain point. War will come with great cost.

 

[Devolution]

Good to know that if I get killed in an act of terrorism, my President will do exactly nothing to avenge my death and bring those responsible to justice.

Thanks Obama.



You are argument #1 for why free speech is a bad thing.

Hear hear.

Are all of the passengers confirmed yet? What happened to the supposed 21 Americans on the manifest? Not seeing anything on the news about it.

Yeah let's incite more shit after Iraq and Afghanistan.

Good looking out.

 

[Curiocity]

Just popped in to post this article - apparently the Russian gov. caught editing Wikipedia: http://gizmodo.com/a-tweetbot-caught-the-russian-govt-editing-flight-mh17-1607483459?utm_campaign=socialflow_gizmodo_facebook&utm_source=gizmodo_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

 

[norinrad]

Good to know that if I get killed in an act of terrorism, my President will do exactly nothing to avenge my death and bring those responsible to justice.

Thanks Obama.

Alright i can't wrap my mind around this one. WTF?

 

[CrunchyB]

Dutch press conference coming up.

 

[Joey Fox]

Yeah let's incite more shit after Iraq and Afghanistan.

Good looking out.

The Russians incited shit, and appear to be a clear enemy of freedom. That is far different from Iraq and current-day Afghanistan. Can you see how Putin takes advantage of our reluctance to use or even threaten force to foment chaos?

A proportional response isn't warmongering, regardless. Economic sanctions are not a proportional response to killing the citizens of our country and our allies.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Goddamn, EV is still the worst poster on GAF, lol. It's insane how he accuses so many of having mental illness while being the most paranoid motherfucker possible.

 

[KingJolly]

Is anybody here from Ukraine?

 

[confuziz]

Rutte going HAM now on Putin. Wonder what happens next.

 

[Roude Leiw]

Imagine this being your grandchildren's toy and seeing these fucking pieces of shit holding it up on the internet.

a video of the moment:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLdRBaL4-wU#t=59
at 1.00

can anyone translate what hes saying? hes crossing himself after holding the toy up in the air.

 

[MisterFalcon]

Rutte going HAM now on Putin. Wonder what happens next.

I'll take 'not a fucking thing' for $10. Unless Putin now sends in the Russian army to 'secure the area'.

 

[TacticalFox88]

Pretty sure BrokenEchleon is being sarcastic

 

[kess]

A proportional response isn't warmongering, regardless. Economic sanctions are not a proportional response to killing the citizens of our country and our allies.

Are you insinuating that the only proportional response to a dead American is a dead Russian? Sure sounds like it.

 

[KINGofCRA5H]

@shustry
Workers in filthy uniforms stacking corpses from flight #MH17 onto old ZiL trucks. All refusing to say where the dead are being take

https://twitter.com/shustry/status/490527570556116992



Appalling

 

[Tommyhawk]

a video of the moment:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLdRBaL4-wU#t=59
at 1.00

can anyone translate what hes saying? hes crossing himself after holding the toy up in the air.

Something in the lines of: "Now everyone has seen whom they (I think he is referring to the Ukrainian Troops) shot down. Do you see?"

 

[CrunchyB]

Dutch PM is furious about seperatists messing with the crime scene.

He spoke Putin minutes ago who promised him full support and no interference. But Rutte warned him that we are just about fed up with this bullshit and they are incriminating themselves by stopping reseachers.

 

[Zaph]

Dutch PM is furious about seperatists messing with the crime scene.

He spoke Putin minutes ago who promised him full support and no interference. But Rutte warned him that we are just about fed up with this bullshit and they are incriminating themselves by stopping reseachers.

You mean he isn't taking a Putin assurance at its word? Shocking.