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[Phantast2k]

Are the rebels using Playskool walkie talkies or something? How is Ukraine intercepting these conversations? (I'm asking because I don't know, I'm not accusing them of making this up.)

I'm not sure either, but I assume that these are cellphone conversations with the number put in brackets next under the pics. Don't think they would always be able to do radio com. since the area they control is very spread out and if they used rus. radio equipment it would directly implicate Russia once captured.

Here's an interview with the leader of the Vostock battalion if anyone cares do compare the voice:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkhahRhVP8k

Oh, also a Russian conscript soldier (who is still doing his term) was recently captured by the Ukrainian military near Luhansk. Even parts of the Russian media is reporting it:
https://translate.google.com/transl...=http://www.novayagazeta.ru/news/1684870.html
(Ukraine wants to exchange him for their captured pilot)
[edit: forgot to add that he was doing conscript term as a radio com. operator or something - the twitter post I got this from was not specific enough while google translation says: "Served in a maneuver company / h 65349, located in the village near Samara Boules, radiotelephone"]

So maybe the "separatist" wanted to get a radio com. network starting. But I've never seen one of them running behind a commander with a radio com. backpack or purse or whatnot. That's a notch too professional for them. I think they don't have a choice but to converse by phones over long distances - whenever they have reception. They probably also constantly change the sim cards and maybe use Russian ones, but as the conversations still go through Ukrainian infrastructure they're still fucked.


The pilot story is also interesting: shot down over the "separatist" territory - ended up in a Russian jail facing trial for killing a Russian embedded reporter when attacking the militants.

/Here's the guy's VK page:
http://vk.com/panovo55

VK is their facebook.

 

[Kinyou]

New SBU upload:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ff_LTlZZI8

With stuff like specifically mentioning "higher ups in Moscow" it almost seems to blatant to be real. Then again, these aren't the kind of guys I'd expect to use codewords.

 

[Midnight Phoenix]

I'm not sure either, but I assume that these are cellphone conversations with the number put in brackets next under the pics. Don't think they would always be able to do radio com. since the area they control is very spread out and if they used rus. radio equipment it would directly implicate Russia once captured.

Here's an interview with the leader of the Vostock battalion if anyone cares do compare the voice:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkhahRhVP8k

Oh, also a Russian conscript soldier (who is still doing his term) was recently captured by the Ukrainian military near Luhansk. Even parts of the Russian media is reporting it:
https://translate.google.com/transl...=http://www.novayagazeta.ru/news/1684870.html
(Ukraine wants to exchange him for their captured pilot)

So maybe the "separatist" wanted to get a radio com. network starting. But I've never seen one of them running behind a commander with a radio com. backpack or purse or whatnot. That's a notch too professional for them. I think they don't have a choice but to converse by phones over long distances - whenever they have reception. They probably also constantly change the sim cards and maybe use Russian ones, but as the conversations still go through Ukrainian infrastructure they're still fucked.


The pilot story is also interesting: shot down over the "separatist" territory - ended up in a Russian jail facing trial for killing a Russian embedded reporter when attacking the militants.

There is pranker Volnov in ru.net, he called to those parents, there is a record

http://vk.com/wall-51591442_162301

It is on Russian, but too long to translate. To be short, father says that his son is telephonist on duty in Samara, Russia, and last time he phoned to parents was 12 June; last he has been seen 22 June. He must to go to field learning, but stayed in base. After that he got lost. And parents even can't get official words, where his son and what they need to do to bring him back.
Both phones of their son was blocked. They tried to reach commander of the base, but he says to not worry and their son on the field training. But after some times it get clear, that their son is lost, after that commander started to saying anything, but not trust.

 

[Slackbladder]

I think some people just hate the west and play enemy of my enemy.

That would be like being robbed by a thief who is then savagely attacked by a dog thats frothing at the mouth and growling like mad and then kissing it on the nose as thanks!
Insane!

 

[KingSnake]

That would be like being robbed by a thief who is then savagely attacked by a dog thats frothing at the mouth and growling like mad and then kissing it on the nose as thanks!
Insane!

Actually more similar to the situation would be being robbed by a thief who has a friend that is being attacked by an out of control dog and that dog in his rage also killed some adults and kids passing by. Go dog!

 

[Herbspiceguy]

Just watched latest Ukraine dispatch from Vice news, horrifying footage.

It features something I didn't know before and it's very positive amongst the horrible news of the looting and makeshift soldiers denying access; the coalmine workers who took it upon themselves to search for fallen bodies out in the fields.

 

[Joni]

It features something I didn't know before and it's very positive amongst the horrible news of the looting and makeshift soldiers denying access; the coalmine workers who took it upon themselves to search for fallen bodies out in the fields.

They aren't doing it on their own will, they get sent there by their bosses.

 

[Phoenix]

CNN fail, they were saying that the youtube dialogue between the rebels was probably a fake

This is what happens when you don't wait for confirmation and validation of items. CNN used to be much better about this.

 

[Phoenix]

Are the rebels using Playskool walkie talkies or something? How is Ukraine intercepting these conversations? (I'm asking because I don't know, I'm not accusing them of making this up.)

Pretty much all major states are capable of intercepting conversations from any non milspec hardware and deciphering its content. This becomes especially true when they are operating over public airwaves.

 

[Partial Gamification]

Pretty much all major states are capable of intercepting conversations from any non milspec hardware and deciphering its content. This becomes especially true when they are operating over public airwaves.

Not entirely true, depends on how we define major States (US, Russia, China, ...yes) and capability (they could or they do make/use the tech). There is a boat in the black sea with big eyes and ears.

Talked to a guy that was stationed with the Marines in Cuba when the US embassy was stormed in Tehran, in 1979. They were picking up UHF signals bouncing off of the stratosphere and listening in on radio chatter. Chaotic, "we're running out of fucking ammo" pieces from what I was told.

 

[petran79]

What's the score card to date on innocent deaths caused by interference from bigger countries in smaller countries affairs?

Russia in Ukraine/Georgia = < 1000

US/UK in Iraq/Afghanistan = > 200,000


..Hmmm, we still win.

in the first case I think it was Georgia that invaded first in South Ossetia, with Russia responding.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tskhinvali

Thanks to that incompetent Saakashvili the disputed region was forever lost to Georgia
glad Georgia wasnt a NATO member at this time, though there were negotiations to join!

It's not even close (anymore). There is a variety of private media outlets of which only one belongs to the president (Channel 5) - which he created some 10 years ago and will now most likely have to sell or turn into a PBS-like channel to comply with the EU-association agreement: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_Kanal_(Ukraine)

Its ratings are not great either:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ukrainian_language_television_channels#Most-viewed_channels
At the same time, the ONLY Kremlin-indeptendet channel in Russia is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dozhd and it's not even on terrestrial tv (from what I understand). There are a few radio stations and newspapers - the rest is Kremlin-controlled (most of them directly through state holdings).
Russia's media: Dozhd is tuned out | The Economist

And even that little channel has to furiously fight for its survival:
BBC News - Liberal Russian TV Dozhd fights closure amid boycott
State Bans Advertising on Cable and Satellite Channels | The St. Petersburg Times

So freedom of press definitely got a boost.

As far as freedom of speech & demonstrations go, after Maidan there is also a world of difference when compared to Russia where as much as waving a Ukrainian flag on the red square will get you fucked:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCxf9MtTpsw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAufypxrFUo


The EU-agreement will hopefully help them fight corruption and introduce more political hygiene.

/also this:
Annexation of Crimea will cut off 14,000 drug users from critical HIV prevention services

Through the various revolutions Ukraine and Russia gradually diverged as far as human rights go.

those are definitely steps of progress,
unfortunately the situation in the country is very dire. Close or even worse than what Eastern Europe was like during the early-90s.

What I fear the most is that they'll let ultra-nationalists and neo-nazis to do the dirty work, like they do now and later dispose of them since they'd be unneeded.

another serious issues is that this dubious government will use the EU and US support to boost its stance not only against Russia but also against its own citizens, in order to prepare Ukraine for the IMF and other similar measures.

Europe never learned. all that crap from both sides (East and West) led to the Yugoslavian Civil War 20 years ago.

 

[SniperHunter]

Are the rebels using Playskool walkie talkies or something? How is Ukraine intercepting these conversations? (I'm asking because I don't know, I'm not accusing them of making this up.)

The terrorists who attacked Mumbai in 2011 were using satellite phones to communicate with their handlers in Pakistan. All their conversations were picked up the Indian Intelligence Agency.

 

[Osiris]

Igor Bezler has confirmed to Lenta.ru that the communications interception where he speaks about downing the plane is authentic, however claims that he was talking about a different aircraft.

Uh-huh.

"We really did discuss over the telephone the searches for a plane, but those who think that we shot it down, have to pour the kefir out of their brains.

On the tape, it is clearly audible that the talk was about a plane in Enakievo. The Boeing fell in the area of Snezhnyoe. There are 100 kilometers between them, I don't have weapons capable of downing planes at such a distance."


The flight path of the Malaysian plane was over Enakievo and it crashed in Grabovo, which is roughly equidistant from either Torez or Snezhnoye, both towns controlled by separatists where the BUK anti-aircraft system has been spotted.

 

[Martian]

Igor Bezler has confirmed to Lenta.ru that the communications interception where he speaks about downing the plane is authentic, however claims that he was talking about a different aircraft.

Uh-huh.

So what they are saying is that they shot down another plane filled with civilians?

 

[Simplet]

I mean both media has corruption in it, but it's not an equal level of corruption. There are independent journalistic organizations that evaluate this sort of thing, and Russia media is ranked amongst the worst of all first world nations. And it's not some US-led conspiracy of journalists or some shit. This is a worldwide consortium of journalists who decide this stuff based on a wide ranging level of serious, stringent criteria.

So yes you can with some fair degree percentage higher trust American news media sources than you could Russian media sources, although in both cases you should use your common sense to scrutinize anything you read, and compare it to other viable sources and see how the facts line up.

Russia s actually not a "first world nation", it's a developping country. And their level of journalistic integrity and freedom of the press is nowhere close to any first world nation. Reporters without borders ranks them number 158 in the world for freedom of the press.

 

[hitgirl]

Anyone have a link to the most updated information bout the disappeared Malaysia flight? I'm still thinking wtf happened there, then this happened.

 

[8 X 11 Printer Paper]

So what they are saying is that they shot down another plane filled with civilians?

No he was shooting at Putin's plane that Russian Media said Ukrainians tried to shot.

 

[CheDominik]

No he was shooting at Putin's plane that Russian Media said Ukrainians tried to shot.

So what you are saying is, that Putin should invade the Ukraine to save his own life?
I think you have a nice career at Russia Today infront of you.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

Igor Bezler has confirmed to Lenta.ru that the communications interception where he speaks about downing the plane is authentic, however claims that he was talking about a different aircraft.

Uh-huh.

Are you kidding me? Before he said anything, people were able to write off the call as a plant, but now...

 

[CheDominik]

Are you kidding me? Before he said anything, people were able to write off the call as a plant, but now...

Yeah those guys aren't really smart. Makes it even more baffling how Russia provides them with heavy weaponry.

 

[Joni]

Yeah those guys aren't really smart. Makes it even more baffling how Russia provides them with heavy weaponry.

He is said to be a former luitenant colonel in Russia's intelligence division... You'd expect better.

 

[ICKE]

Yeah those guys aren't really smart. Makes it even more baffling how Russia provides them with heavy weaponry.

That doesn't mean anything.

Most separatists that Russia arms are completely out of their minds. substance abuse is going on and then there is the element of organized crime. This is how it always works in separatist regions that are "pro-Russia". From Transnistria to Eastern-Ukraine, you give them enough room to maneuver and then it's time to start the human trafficking and gunrunning operations.

 

[Tugatrix]

He is said to be a former luitenant colonel in Russia's intelligence division... You'd expect better.

I wonder why

 

[Mr.Mike]

Russia s actually not a "first world nation", it's a developping country. And their level of journalistic integrity and freedom of the press is nowhere close to any first world nation. Reporters without borders ranks them number 158 in the world for freedom of the press.

Well, Russia is, by definition, a 2nd world country. At least according to the original meaning where the first world was NATO and friends, the second world was the Soviet Union and friends, and the third world was everyone else.

But yeah, now they are a " developing" nation.

 

[Joey Fox]

With Putin amassing troops at the border, to me it makes sense to put a small amount of boots on the ground now in Ukraine. There's no time to discuss this openly in Congress or at the UN.

Once Putin invades openly, it will be much more dangerous to interfere and stop the spread of this.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

He is said to be a former luitenant colonel in Russia's intelligence division... You'd expect better.

My guess is that someone presented him with proof that the call concerning the crash wasn't fake and he knew he couldn't lie about his presence in it anymore.

 

[Amir0x]

Russia s actually not a "first world nation", it's a developping country. And their level of journalistic integrity and freedom of the press is nowhere close to any first world nation. Reporters without borders ranks them number 158 in the world for freedom of the press.

Well I know about its lack of journalistic integrity (that was partially my whole point), but I just was under the impression for some reason that after the Cold War Russia started being classified as first world or second world. Don't know why I thought that, but I've certainly thought that for a long while.

 

[mjontrix]

Anyone have a link to the most updated information bout the disappeared Malaysia flight? I'm still thinking wtf happened there, then this happened.

Wrong thread, but I haven't heard anything. Give it a year or two, it they manage to ever find it.

 

[zoukka]

Well I know about its lack of journalistic integrity (that was partially my whole point), but I just was under the impression for some reason that after the Cold War Russia started being classified as first world or second world. Don't know why I thought that, but I've certainly thought that for a long while.

Well they certainly were aiming there until a few years ago when for some reason they started their descent towards the dark ages.

 

[BigAl1992]

Igor Bezler has confirmed to Lenta.ru that the communications interception where he speaks about downing the plane is authentic, however claims that he was talking about a different aircraft.

Uh-huh.

I'm sorry, but this is the only reaction I can think of to this;


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……………/……………………………………………,:”………/
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[gutter_trash]

FIFA should remove Russia from hosting the 2018 World Cup. Hit Russia at their pride.

Anyway, how the hell would want to fly from the West of Europe to Russia now?

 

[mavs]

Well I know about its lack of journalistic integrity (that was partially my whole point), but I just was under the impression for some reason that after the Cold War Russia started being classified as first world or second world. Don't know why I thought that, but I've certainly thought that for a long while.

Second world was the communist bloc. Russia is lumped in with developing countries (BRIC)

 

[supergiz]

Is there any validity to the articles claiming this was backed by Russia?

 

[petran79]

FIFA should remove Russia from hosting the 2018 World Cup. Hit Russia at their pride.

Anyway, how the hell would want to fly from the West of Europe to Russia now?

FIFA are as corrupt as Russia. no pride hurt!

 

[Bedameister]

FIFA should remove Russia from hosting the 2018 World Cup. Hit Russia at their pride.

Anyway, how the hell would want to fly from the West of Europe to Russia now?

I was thinking about that today. Even considered making a thread about it.
I think FIFA is pretty concerned right now.
Sure we're talking about four more years, anything could happen. The situation could calm down again but I guess they should be thinking about removing the world cup from Russia now rather than taking the risk.
And sure they should also remove it from Qatar. The only way FIFA could get some reputation back.

 

[Amir0x]

Second world was the communist bloc. Russia is lumped in with developing countries (BRIC)

man i've been saying Russia was first or second world for ages now. I feel so used!

 

[Deadbeat]

FIFA should remove Russia from hosting the 2018 World Cup. Hit Russia at their pride.

Anyway, how the hell would want to fly from the West of Europe to Russia now?

Hockey is Russia's pride.

 

[| Praxis |]

So I just seen on the news the rebels have bulldozers at the site now and they are starting to move the wreckage, mostly the larger parts... So much for allowing investigators to examine the evidence in situ.

At least the bodies are starting to be preserved in refrigerated train carriages. Can't imagine what the families must be feeling.

 

[SkeptiMism]

Is there any validity to the articles claiming this was backed by Russia?

Where do you want to begin from?

Russia backing the separatists from the beginning?
Or Russia giving them the BUK system and the training required to use it?

 

[gutter_trash]

Hockey is Russia's pride.

Footy is #1 in Russia according to my friend from Moscow.

Yes, the hockey national team has had more success and the KHL is popular but the Russian Football Premier League is even more popular.


If BUKs stationed in the Ukraine-Russia border is the new normal, national teams and tourists should not have to chance it flying over it to get to Russia.


World Cup 2018 should be move to the Netherlands IMO

 

[Joni]

Germany, Netherlands, France, Belgium should announce their intentions to boycot the world cup if held in Russia. That would be four of the final eight countries on the last world cup.

 

[ICKE]

NYT : Victims <- This will updated as more information is released.

I hadn't seen these pictures yet, I'm sad now. I can't believe how callous and cold the Russian statements have been.

 

[Liha]

Germany, Netherlands, France, Belgium should announce their intentions to boycot the world cup if held in Russia. That would be four of the final eight countries on the last world cup.

The football associations are independent and that's good.

 

[Joni]

The football associations are independent and that's good.

They also know that they live and die based on public support offered by their government. They also want to replace Blatter with Platini so they have secundary reasons to call out the FIFA.

 

[Liha]

They also know that they live and die based on public support offered by their government. They also want to replace Blatter with Platini so they have secundary reasons to call out the FIFA.

They are financially independent and the FIFA is a company like any other. The viewers and fans want a good tournament everything else is irrelevant. The various sports associations are a state within a state.

 

[Commander Jameson]

https://vine.co/v/M2WLQjDuOhA

Sky News (UK) reporter Colin Brazier rummages around in MH17 passenger's bag in the wreckage.

Nope. Nothing wrong about that AT ALL.

 

[Chinner]

i dont blame him. do you know how badly those journalists are paid? hes probably struggling to pay his mortgage.

#notalljournalists

 

[HelloMeow]

Disgusting.

 

[Joni]

They are financially independent and the FIFA is a company like any other. The viewers and fans want a good tournament everything else is irrelevant. The various sports associations are a state within a state.

While they are financially independent, they receive government aid. For instance, Belgian soccer teams receive tax cuts and cheaper police protection at high profile league matches based on an agreement with the Belgian football association.

 

[Liha]

While they are financially independent, they receive government aid. For instance, Belgian soccer teams receive tax cuts and cheaper police protection at high profile league matches based on an agreement with the Belgian football association.

The fans and viewers are voters and because of this the government is too cowardly to do something.