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[teruterubozu]

I'm pretty sure all of that can be disabled from the cockpit.

Oh I'm sure. So how did it get disabled? The million dollar question.

 

[AtomicShroom]

However, Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 is equipped with in-seat phones in Business class:

http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/hq/en/mh-experience/our-fleet/boeing-777-200.html

During 9/11, people called using in-seat phones (the ones you swipe with a credit card).
Seems like calls could have theoretically been made if there was a chance to.

Can be disabled from cockpit. Obviously if the pilot disabled all other communication systems, he didn't forget to turn this off as well.

 

[Terra]

And then collected everyones cell phones?

 

[syllogism]

I find it unlikely that a plane the size of this 777 could fly below radar range for any length of time. In addition, you have other forms of signal intelligence beyond radar, and a 777 somehow flying at very low altitude for a long time would be noticed.

Yes, it is definitely not plausible. Only incompetence, lack of radar coverage or radar downtime could explain it not being detected if it took the northern route.

While small aircraft could fly low enough to avoid radar, it would be almost impossible for a Boeing 777-200 to dodge an air-defense system operating effectively, according to Keith Hayward, head of research at the U.K.'s Royal Aeronautical Society.

"You'd have to fly well below 100 meters, and the 777 is not designed to fly that low," Mr. Hayward said. "You would exceed the aircraft's stress levels."

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303563304579445202957835142?mod=e2tw

 

[ThatGuyAgain]

Can be disabled from cockpit. Obviously if the pilot disabled all other communication systems, he didn't forget to turn this off as well.

Well, everything points to knowledgable and deliberate acts here by the pilot(s).

You would think that there would be some way intelligence could find something on this by now. I know they searched the pilots homes but there has to be something there still to help with the investigation.

 

[AtomicShroom]

And then collected everyones cell phones?

What is it with you people and goddamn cellphones!? They don't work above 3,000ft, often less than that!

And when the plane rose to 45,000ft, everyone on board other than those in the cockpit were killed.

 

[Betta Lines]

in-seat phones

I think if the entertainment systems are disabled or said to be faulty, those phones don't work. I was on a flight where all that on-demand stuff didn't work and they just had to loop movies like they used to.

 

[MMBosstones86]

in-seat phones

V

I'm pretty sure all of that can be disabled from the cockpit.

That's pretty much all I got as well.

 

[teruterubozu]

I think if the entertainment systems are disabled or said to be faulty, those phones don't work. I was on a flight where all that on-demand stuff didn't work and they just had to loop movies like they used to.

Ah Ok. Hard to imagine US planes are better. Malaysia Airlines is that bad?

 

[MIMIC]

Question: Is it possible for the plane to "ping" with the satellite while on the ground?

I ask this question because I was thinking: why would the pilot want to expend every last bit of fuel (aka fly for 7 hours and 30 minutes) running the risk of running out and crashing?

 

[syllogism]

Question: Is it possible for the plane to "ping" with the satellite while on the ground?

I ask this question because I was thinking: why would the pilot want to expend every last bit of fuel (aka fly for 7 hours and 30 minutes) running the risk of running out and crashing?

It is only possible if the engines are still on (and thus SATCOM has power).

 

[Serra]

Or without hitting water (black box isn't emitting a signal)

While I think that theory is quite stupid, I must correct you that the black box only has a 90% (according to NTSB/FAA tests) of surviving a crash into water and the range of the sonar ping underwater is only a few miles. So unless you get extremely lucky and get a military vessel within several miles of it, you will never get the signal. Oh, and its battery lasts only 30 days.

So even if it is screaming for help right now on the bottom of the ocean, we will probably never find it.

 

[Qazaq]

The pilot is saying you aviate, navigate, and then communicate in that order. It's apparently not insta-Mayday, and it would make sense for a slow burn if it was just smoke because the plane kept flying.

It makes he most sense. No hijack. A manual turn to the nearest airport, whereupon the plane just kept flying on autopilot due to the pilots being out.

 

[Mully]

The pilot is saying you aviate, navigate, and then communicate in that order. It's apparently not insta-Mayday, and it would make sense for a slow burn if it was just smoke because the plane kept flying.

It makes he most sense. No hijack. A manual turn to the nearest airport, whereupon the plane just kept flying on autopilot due to the pilots being out.

How would that explain the pilot's transmission after ACARS was turned off?

 

[SuperSah]

I fear it's a gonna.

Seems the media are now giving up. I bet we won't see this for a decade.

 

[raindoc]

How do you 'kill/incapacitate' 240 people without doing some damage to the plane?

depressurize the cabin by hitting yet another button labelled "OFF" and fly above 5000m for a minute or two. climb another one-, two thousand meters to kill.

I find it unlikely that a plane the size of this 777 could fly below radar range for any length of time. In addition, you have other forms of signal intelligence beyond radar, and a 777 somehow flying at very low altitude for a long time would be noticed.

just how much more fuel does a plane like a 777 consume when flying at low altitudes?

 

[teruterubozu]

How would that explain the pilot's transmission after ACARS was turned off?

That pilot guy says ACARS burned away without the pilots knowing. The "selective fire" theory is too...selective.

 

[ThatGuyAgain]

What I’ve read about both pilots, neither seems to be the type to deliberately hijack the plane… It is hard for me to believe this based on all of the circumstantial evidence, but if it is true that they are not behind this, then only one other thing makes sense. Someone that the pilots trusted is behind this (a crew member) and were able to enter the cockpit – then force the series of events (change of flight path, turning off communication, etc). Plausible?

 

[Maninthemirror]

And then collected everyones cell phones?

You would need more than a dozen hijackers for that. If we have that much we would have known


Also a 777 comsumes more fuel the lower it is due to air density. The fuel that is in the plane is calculated for 35.000 feet flight . If it was under 10,000 feet then the time of fuel would go from 7.5 hours to 5.5 hours

 

[Zarovitch]

What is it with you people and goddamn cellphones!? They don't work above 3,000ft, often less than that!

And when the plane rose to 45,000ft, everyone on board other than those in the cockpit were killed.

For real?

 

[MIMIC]

How would that explain the pilot's transmission after ACARS was turned off?

He was busy aviating

It is only possible if the engines are still on (and thus SATCOM has power).

So it doesn't necessarily have to be "flying"? It could be taxiing or something?

 

[Betta Lines]

Ah Ok. Hard to imagine US planes are better. Malaysia Airlines is that bad?

My flights with Malaysia Airlines have all been excellent, just that one time where the entertainment systems weren't working. Was a few years ago, on a 747 which I don't see listed on their fleet anymore, so I guess all these things have seen upgrades. The 777 in this case is certainly a newer plane than the ones I've been in. In any case, if someone wanted to disable the in-seat phones I'm sure they could without causing any suspicion.

 

[Serra]

You would need more than a dozen hijackers for that. If we have that much we would have known

Like has been said a hundred times already, there is no need to collect cell phones as they don't work at that altitude.

 

[onadesertedisland]

Where's the NSA's all seeing eyes when you need them?
Not that my opinion is worth anything, but I think the plane crashed at high speed into the ocean with similar results to crashes of this type. The pieces left are likely too small to be found for some time, or simply sank to the deep.

 

[Flo_Evans]

Being serious for a moment: So what is up with the pilots politics? Seems like the leader of the party he belongs too has been arrested for "sodomy" the day before the flight?

Now lets assume for a minute this is somehow related (I really don't see it) it seems like a really stupid way to get anything done politically. What exactly is the message? Why wouldn't he leave a note or something? How does killing 200+ people even line up with his politics (pro democracy?)

The only explanation I can think of is that he was just trying to get media attention on Malaysia but this has got to be the worst way possible to do it?

It seems like if it was politics or terrorists they failed in their ultimate goal, since no one can figure out who, what or why the plane disappeared. Did the pilot steal it? Was he coerced? Was someone on the plane with a gun to his head?

So really in my mind there are 4 scenarios (in descending order of probability)

1. the plane experienced some sort of problem and the pilot unsuccessfully tried to land it
2. the plane was hijacked and the hijackers crashed/failed
3. the pilot committed suicide in a really odd way for no apparent reason
4. the plane was successfully stolen and hidden for some future purpose

 

[AtomicShroom]

For real?

If the pilot turned off cabin pressurization, yes. Because that's about the only reason we can think of why a pilot would go to such a height.

 

[Megasoum]

If the pilot turned off cabin pressurization, yes. Because that's about the only reason we can think of why a pilot would go to such a height.

Same as if he turned off the cabin pressurization at 35 000 feets. Really no reasons to waste a ton of fuel to climb to 45 000.

 

[Zarovitch]

If the pilot turned off cabin pressurization, yes. Because that's about the only reason we can think of why a pilot would go to such a height.

I can't believe he can do that. When he climb at this height, is the communication was already down?

 

[ThatGuyAgain]

Not sure about its accuracy but this image shows a timeline and a lot of info:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...ysia-airlines-investigation-article-1.1722599

 

[syllogism]

I can't believe he can do that. When he climb at this height, is the communication was already down?

The data we have on altitude is unreliable and contradictory, as is often the case with primary radar. With no supporting data it is likely better to dismiss radar based altitude readings completely.

 

[Betta Lines]

Not sure about its accuracy but this image shows a timeline and a lot of info:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...ysia-airlines-investigation-article-1.1722599

Ew. Is NY Daily News like the Daily Mail or something?

 

[pringles]

A fire that incapacitates everyone, takes out communications but leaves autopilot functioning and plane flying for 7 hours in an unknown direction?

If that was the plot of a movie everyone would roll their eyes at the implausibility.

 

[AtomicShroom]

Same as if he turned off the cabin pressurization at 35 000 feets. Really no reasons to waste a ton of fuel to climb to 45 000.

Correct, but people would pass out and die much, much faster at 45,000ft.

I can't believe he can do that. When he climb at this height, is the communication was already down?

Yes.

 

[raindoc]

Not sure about its accuracy but this image shows a timeline and a lot of info:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...ysia-airlines-investigation-article-1.1722599

http://youtu.be/MtkK3eijBso

 

[nilbog21]

heard an interesting interview on NPR earlier of some guy from CNN who interviewed the co-pilot about a month before the plane disappeared. Can't find a link to the interview though

 

[ThatGuyAgain]

Ew. Is NY Daily News like the Daily Mail or something?

Sorry if it is... I'm not familiar with them.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Smoke starts filling the cockpit. Pilot with many thousands of hours of flight time, who has been employed by MA since 1981, decides that "oh, hey, I will put my oxygen mask and contact ATC with a distress signal in a minute, but I need to flip random switches off and reprogram the flight to go completely off course before that!"

And for this to happen less than a minute following signing off with Malay ATC.

And for the plane to inexplicably be capable of several more turns, and either fly straight into the heart of Asia without getting detected by anybody's radar or to quite close to Australia. Whilst on fire. And the fire and pilot stupidity to have knocked out every single mechanism on the plane designed to communicate with the outside world excluding one obscure mechanism that bleeped out to a satelite over seven hours after smoke started filling the cockpit.


Edit: My guess, for what it is worth.

Plane leaves Malay ATC. Actor then acts to do the following:

Kill or incapacitate the innocents on board.
Switch off all known communication devices on the plane, forgetting about the obscure signal that pings the satellite.
Will be flying blind at high altitude - however, having planned out their actions meticulously, the actor has a rock solid plan for their route.
They fly this route, getting out of radar range then disappearing, as planned, anticipating that their crime will take a while to be spotted and longer for people to even realise there was a crime.
The actor then either managed, via some deed, to fly into central Asia without being discovered by any of the states whose airspace they violate (unlikely but fits the James Bond levels of deviousness above - the "Tom Clancy") or south, ending up off the west coast of Australia (without anywhere to land or even a mechanism with which to save their own life - the "Insane and Suicidal")

Of course, both of these plans could have hit friction - i.e. something went wrong.

Neither of these options are perfect. TC requires both balls the size of melons and the ingenuity to pass several country's air defense mechanisms. IS requires a very specific kind of insanity.

 

[MThanded]

What is it with you people and goddamn cellphones!? They don't work above 3,000ft, often less than that!

And when the plane rose to 45,000ft, everyone on board other than those in the cockpit were killed.

You do know hypoxia can set in at 35,000 ft. Why would you climb 10,000 more feet for similar behavior?

 

[empty vessel]

You do know hypoxia can set in at 35,000 ft. Why would you climb 10,000 more feet for similar behavior?

It could depend upon how much one prioritizes incapacitating passengers and how quickly one wants to accomplish it. But as has been said, and as I understand it, the proposition that the plane made that climb is not reliably established.

 

[Flo_Evans]

Correct, but people would pass out and die much, much faster at 45,000ft.

From what I have read it is like 10 seconds vs like 60.

So yeah it would happen much faster but would that be necessary? Seems like a huge risk if you could accomplish the same thing a little slower without wasting fuel climbing. I don't think people would be able to put up much of a fight even at 30,000ft.

The other theory of trying to put out a fire seems equally unlikely. Highly risky and the opposite of what pilots are trained to do (land).

The climb by far is the most mysterious part of this. I wish I knew how accurate elevation from radar really is.

 

[HoosTrax]

How steep of a climb to get to 45,000 ft was it.

If it was a fast climb, the person at the controls may have been trying to keep people from breaching the locked cockpit and re-establishing control (by keeping the plane at a high nose-up angle, not by knocking them out), and the resulting altitude itself is a red herring.

 

[Megasoum]

How steep of a climb to get to 45,000 ft was it.

If it was a fast climb, the person at the controls may have been trying to keep people from breaching the locked cockpit and re-establishing control (by keeping the plane at a high nose-up angle, not by knocking them out), and the resulting altitude itself is a red herring.

45 000 is over the normal operating ceiling of the 777 so I doubt he would be able to go really steep at that altitude. It's not a fight jet after all.

 

[Flo_Evans]

How steep of a climb to get to 45,000 ft was it.

If it was a fast climb, the person at the controls may have been trying to keep people from breaching the locked cockpit and re-establishing control (by keeping the plane at a high nose-up angle, not by knocking them out), and the resulting altitude itself is a red herring.

The plane would be struggling at full power at that height. Some have even said at the point it was supposed to be that high it would be impossible due to the fuel weight on board.

So it would not be in a high pitch. It would be like trying to get that last MPH out of your car on a long highway, pedal to the floor but barely accelerating.

 

[teruterubozu]

heard an interesting interview on NPR earlier of some guy from CNN who interviewed the co-pilot about a month before the plane disappeared. Can't find a link to the interview though

Yeah, the younger guy was on CNN Business Traveler with Richard Quest

 

[Omiee]

havent been here since yesterday did i miss something big?

 

[HoosTrax]

Hmm interesting. Maybe unintentional then? He set the trim with a slight climb angle and left the seat and got preoccupied for a long time messing around with some equipment or looking at nav charts or something? Just throwing random theories out there I guess.

 

[iJudged]

havent been here since yesterday did i miss something big?

Unfortunately, no.

 

[SniperHunter]

Missing Malaysian plane: Cops find data on Indian Ocean runways in pilot's simulator

A senior police officer with direct knowledge of the investigation said the programs from the pilot's simulator included Indian Ocean runways in the Maldives, Sri Lanka, Diego Garcia and southern India, although he added that US and European runways also featured.

A senior police officer with direct knowledge of the investigation said the programs from the pilot's simulator included Indian Ocean runways in the Maldives, Sri Lanka, Diego Garcia and southern India, although he added that US and European runways also featured.

Generally these flight simulators show hundreds or even thousands of runways," the officer said. "What we are trying to see is what were the runways that were frequently used."

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-in-pilots-simulator/articleshow/32256080.cms

 

[iJudged]

Missing Malaysian plane: Cops find data on Indian Ocean runways in pilot's simulator



http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-in-pilots-simulator/articleshow/32256080.cms

That unfortunately doesn't mean shit.

 

[Sectorseven]

Missing Malaysian plane: Cops find data on Indian Ocean runways in pilot's simulator



http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-in-pilots-simulator/articleshow/32256080.cms

He'd go so far as to obfuscate the crash, but not wipe his hard drive?