Support NeoGAF

[Falk]

I didn't consider that. But I was referring to the insinuation that the people were dead "because the plane slammed into the ocean"

But they ARE dead "because the plane slammed into the ocean". Specifically the bolded part. D:

 

[Circle Jerk]

I didn't consider that. But I was referring to the insinuation that the people were dead "because the plane slammed into the ocean"

And wouldn't there be food and water on the plane anyway? Not to last for a year obviously, but enough for a few weeks maybe.

you think theres enough food and water on a plane to last hundreds of people weeks? youre insane

 

[kmax]

This whole thing is bizarre. Where the fuck is this plane?

Most likely at the bottom of the ocean. It's like trying to find a grain of sand in an infinitely big haystack. It's highly unlikely that they'll ever find it.

 

[SlipperySlope]

I didn't consider that. But I was referring to the insinuation that the people were dead "because the plane slammed into the ocean"

And wouldn't there be food and water on the plane anyway? Not to last for a year obviously, but enough for a few weeks maybe.

Planes like this don't survive water landings in the ocean. There's a reason the Hudson landing was considered a miracle, and that was only possible because he didn't land in the ocean.

A 777 cannot land in the ocean and stay intact.

 

[Kibbles]

Are you for real?

edit: Okay, my last few posts has been snarky as all fuck, so

There really isn't any chance for survival without water for more than three days. This isn't even taking into account deep sea temperatures, weather, exhaustion, etc.

What about that Mexican guy who was found after being lost at sea for over a year or whatever recently? (If that was even real lol)

 

[Boy Wander]

On a slightly more positive tack, what changes do we think will come in as a result of this - my take:

1) Pilots no longer able to switch off transponders.
2) Aircraft MUST report their GPS position at least once every 30 mins.

 

[btkadams]

I didn't consider that. But I was referring to the insinuation that the people were dead "because the plane slammed into the ocean"

And wouldn't there be food and water on the plane anyway? Not to last for a year obviously, but enough for a few weeks maybe.

why would a plane have extra food on it? wouldn't it be like 10 bags of chips and 10 sandwiches, if it wasn't lost in the crash? i honestly have no idea how much they would have, but any more than that sounds incredibly wasteful. i can't see any modern airline wanting to spend money on much extra food.

 

[TacticalFox88]

On a slightly more positive tack, what changes do we think will come in as a result of this - my take:

1) Pilots no longer able to switch off transponders.
2) Aircraft MUST report their GPS position at least once every 30 mins.

It'll much tougher than that, believe me.

 

[MIMIC]

But they ARE dead "because the plane slammed into the ocean". Specifically the bolded part. D:

As far as I know, there is no indication of how the plane came to a halt, especially since it flew for 7 hours.

you think theres enough food and water on a plane to last hundreds of people weeks? youre insane

I'm talking about the PILOTS. I was of the opinion that the passengers expired long before the "landing".

Planes like this don't survive water landings in the ocean. There's a reason the Hudson landing was considered a miracle, and that was only possible because he didn't land in the ocean.

A 777 cannot land in the ocean and stay intact.

The Ethiopian Flight would have had a perfect landing in the ocean if it hadn't been for that coral reef that snagged the engine. It wouldn't have just "exploded" as soon as it touched the water.

And how is landing on the Hudson different than landing in the ocean? If the water isn't dangerously choppy, what exactly is the difference?

 

[KHarvey16]

On a slightly more positive tack, what changes do we think will come in as a result of this - my take:

1) Pilots no longer able to switch off transponders.
2) Aircraft MUST report their GPS position at least once every 30 mins.

The first really can't happen since pilots have to be able to switch it off in certain cases. Sometimes they're requested to cycle power by ATC and sometimes they're asked to turn it off once they're on the ground.

The second wouldn't really change much since this aircraft was reporting its position until ACARS was no longer functional.

 

[Betta Lines]

The fact that he was right about the altitude doesn't make anything about the rest of his story more or less correct.

Indeed, but the theory has evolved over time, and the main point remains the most compelling to me, which is the speculation that the pilots were dealing with a malfunction which prevented distress signals from being sent, caused electrical systems to be switched off, a change of course and eventually resulted in a plane flying for hours, possibly with everyone on board unconscious, until it ran out of fuel.

The media was quick to jump on any possible clue that suggested foul play, either by the pilots or someone else on board, such as things being deliberately switched off, a change of course being pre-programmed, etc, all of which have alternative explanations.

There is still no conclusive evidence that there was any wrongdoing on board MH370, and Goodfellow's intention was to offer a theory that assumed no wrongdoing until proven otherwise. He was defending the professionalism of the pilots, and I like that. One of the more bizarre aspects going against the theory was that there were changes altitude when everyone was supposedly unconscious/dead - this new analysis suggests there were no changes in altitude. I'm not saying this proves anyone's theory, only that it is worth pointing out, and it supports the idea of a plane flying itself for hours with pilots/everyone incapacitated.

 

[FloppyDelux]

This whole thing is bizarre. Where the fuck is this plane?

or in the ocean, from what i know.

 

[ced]

Planes like this don't survive water landings in the ocean.

A 777 cannot land in the ocean and stay intact.

This is dependent on the conditions of the ocean, so not true. The hudson was calm, and the ocean can look like glass at times, as highly unlikely as that would be.

 

[LiK]

"@cnnbrk: A committee representing families of #MH370 passengers accuses the Malaysian government of deliberate delays and cover-ups, CCTV reports."

 

[Zarovitch]

As far as I know, there is no indication of how the plane came to a halt, especially since it flew for 7 hours.

If the last ping was in the middle of the indian ocean, and how much fuel had the plane, we can do the math and knowing it's now in the ocean?

 

[dc89]

Today, I saw a clip of a NBC (?) reporter who was on one of the search planes scouring the sea.

He said they flew at 200 foot above the ocean and still visibility was poor. He said that the pilot confirmed that's the lowest altitude he has ever flown. They flew for 10 hours.

 

[Bsigg12]

This is dependent on the conditions of the ocean, so not true. The hudson was calm, and the ocean can look like glass at times, as highly unlikely as that would be.

Hasn't there been storms the last week where they think it went down?

 

[Boy Wander]

The first really can't happen since pilots have to be able to switch it off in certain cases. Sometimes they're requested to cycle power by ATC and sometimes they're asked to turn it off once they're on the ground.

The second wouldn't really change much since this aircraft was reporting its position until ACARS was no longer functional.

As far as I'm aware, ACARS doesn't give the GPS coordinates of the aircraft. Technology exists to allow the plane to report its exact position and apparently the cost is around 1 dollar per hour of flight time.

 

[Boy Wander]

Indeed, but the theory has evolved over time, and the main point remains the most compelling to me, which is the speculation that the pilots were dealing with a malfunction which prevented distress signals from being sent, caused electrical systems to be switched off, a change of course and eventually resulted in a plane flying for hours, possibly with everyone on board unconscious, until it ran out of fuel.

The media was quick to jump on any possible clue that suggested foul play, either by the pilots or someone else on board, such as things being deliberately switched off, a change of course being pre-programmed, etc, all of which have alternative explanations.

There is still no conclusive evidence that there was any wrongdoing on board MH370, and Goodfellow's intention was to offer a theory that assumed no wrongdoing until proven otherwise. He was defending the professionalism of the pilots, and I like that. One of the more bizarre aspects going against the theory was that there were changes altitude when everyone was supposedly unconscious/dead - this new analysis suggests there were no changes in altitude. I'm not saying this proves anyone's theory, only that it is worth pointing out, and it supports the idea of a plane flying itself for hours with pilots/everyone incapacitated.

One thing that I saw on the BBC today that I hadn't realised or perhaps heard before is that after it's sharp left turn upon leaving Malaysia, the aircraft was apparently going through waypoints as set on its flight path. The odd thing here being that the flight path was not the flight path to Beijing, which can only mean that the pilot or someone else with knowledge of such things had reprogrammed it.

 

[Blader]

I didn't consider that. But I was referring to the insinuation that the people were dead "because the plane slammed into the ocean"

And wouldn't there be food and water on the plane anyway? Not to last for a year obviously, but enough for a few weeks maybe.

Plane wreckage doesn't float. Even if there was a two-week supply of food and water on the plane (there isn't), any survivors would have no way of getting to it. It'd just sink with the fuselage, and no one scrambling out of a downed plane is grabbing floating bags of chips on the way.

Plus, they've been out in the ocean for two weeks. Assuming they have any kind of flotation available, they're exposed to the weather, the sun, sharks, etc. No one is surviving the crash anyway, but even if they did there's no way to stay alive in those conditions.

 

[KHarvey16]

As far as I'm aware, ACARS doesn't give the GPS coordinates of the aircraft. Technology exists to allow the plane to report its exact position and apparently the cost is around 1 dollar per hour of flight time.

ACARS can report just about anything you want it to including coordinates and there's no need for additional systems as far as I know. I'm sure you could purchase some other satellite based technology but that can be turned off or destroyed just like ACARS was.

 

[Zarovitch]

ACARS can report just about anything you want it to including coordinates and there's no need for additional systems as far as I know. I'm sure you could purchase some other satellite based technology but that can be turned off or destroyed just like ACARS was.

At least the ACARS, when turned off, should send a message like "eh, they just turn me off"

 

[Metaphoreus]

Because you have no evidence of negligence of any sorts...?

Plaintiff's have to prove the airline was at fault?

But that's the problem. If you don't know what happened because it's so early you don't know who was at fault and you certainly can't offer enough evidence to win a lawsuit.

If US legal principles applied, any plaintiffs might be able to take advantage of the res ipsa loquitur doctrine.

Of course, I have no clue if Malaysia recognizes a similar doctrine.

 

[KHarvey16]

At least the ACARS, when turned off, should send a message like "eh, they just turn me off"

In the case of a breaker it can't really tell if it's losing power because someone disconnected it or because a fire burned the wiring, for instance.

If US legal principles applied, any plaintiffs might be able to take advantage of the res ipsa loquitur doctrine.

Of course, I have no clue if Malaysia recognizes a similar doctrine.

That relies on showing that, more likely than not, only the defendant could be responsible. That is clearly not the case here at this point.

 

[Zarovitch]

In the case of a breaker it can't really tell if it's losing power because someone disconnected it or because a fire burned the wiring, for instance.

I know but at least you can't just turn it off. Nothing is perfect and you can't double all the system since this must fly.

 

[subrock]

For people wondering why the plane hasn't been found article

Aaron Halstead, a manager with the Royal Flying Doctor Service in Melbourne, has extensive experience in sea and air search and rescue operations.

He has sailed through the "really remote" search area on trips from Antarctica's Heard Island to Perth on icebreaker ships and smaller ocean-going yachts.

"What you're talking about is an expansive ocean that is exactly the same with nothing in between for eight days," he told ABC News Online.

"It is a vast expansive ocean and it is unimpeded from west to east - there is nothing in the way."

"Having been involved in a lot of aerial searches myself, I can say you lose depth perception," he said.

"I know the crews are really skilled at this but you're dealing with swell. You can imagine that with the peaks and troughs of the swell, as it drops over the back of the swell, you've only got to be flying past and blink at that moment and miss something.

"Hence why they've got 10 sets of eyes on a plane - it really is human eyeball work. It is about looking out and scouring that area, and hopefully somebody catches something that someone else didn't see."

Search crews are trained to know the size and scale of objects at varying heights above the ocean.

"A US Air Force pilot gave a good analogy about the initial search area which was to imagine looking from Los Angeles to New York and trying to find three people on the ground," Mr Halstead said.

 

[U2NUMB]

Since I have no idea..how deep could the ocean be where they think it may have ended up? I know it can very but I assume we are talking crazy deep right?

Gonna be very tough to ever find the plane itself at the bottom

 

[KHarvey16]

I know but at least you can't just turn it off. Nothing is perfect and you can't double all the system since this must fly.

Even if that were feasible(I honestly don't think it is from a practicality standpoint), what would it buy us in this case?

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

Since I have no idea..how deep could the ocean be where they think it may have ended up? I know it can very but I assume we are talking crazy deep right?

Gonna be very tough to ever find the plane itself at the bottom

Don't worry, James Cameron has this covered.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67MRiMT9cnE

 

[Boy Wander]

Since I have no idea..how deep could the ocean be where they think it may have ended up? I know it can very but I assume we are talking crazy deep right?

Gonna be very tough to ever find the plane itself at the bottom

It is roughly 3.5km/2 miles deep. Aircraft have been salvaged from that depth before - a South African airways aircraft was salvaged from 16,000 ft in the Eighties.

 

[Falcs]

So what about those accounts of the ringing phones after the flight went missing?
I guess that was all just bullshit then??

 

[Bollocks]

So, how far off is that?
Is there a map?

 

[NYCmetsfan]

So what about those accounts of the ringing phones after the flight went missing?
I guess that was all just bullshit then??

This has been explained a lot in this thread. The phone rings before it establishes a connection. Call a friend in the same room. You'll hear a ring before they get the call.

 

[KHarvey16]

So what about those accounts of the ringing phones after the flight went missing?
I guess that was all just bullshit then??

I don't think the reports were false, it's just that hearing it ring doesn't necessarily mean anything.

 

[fallagin]

Well, I'm glad at least that we found out what happened. The media conspiracy theory bullshit was unbearable. Really sad though.

 

[Falcs]

To the phone answers..
Ah, fair enough. I guess that's a simple enough explanation.
I haven't been following this thread all that closely.

 

[Chococat]

What about that Mexican guy who was found after being lost at sea for over a year or whatever recently? (If that was even real lol)

Posted a few pages back:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Callahan

Edit: Whoops, wrong guy- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Salvador_Alvarenga

 

[Zarovitch]

Even if that were feasible(I honestly don't think it is from a practicality standpoint), what would it buy us in this case?

I imagine that if a pilote turn off the system, you can try to talk to him before he goes missing. Anyway if it's not working like that that's because they don't think it necessary.

We will see if thing change in the future after this incident.

 

[fallout]

I think people need to learn that questioning things is great, but just because you have questions doesn't mean that the entire thing which you are questioning is in doubt.

 

[JPodz]

Well, I'm glad at least that we found out what happened. The media conspiracy theory bullshit was unbearable. Really sad though.

So what happened?

 

[luso]

Now the black boxes will never be recovered.
The only clues could be the remains but not a single piece was found until now.
If the route towards southern Indian wasn't on purpose, the most eerie thing could be that after whatever happened it incapacitated the pilots and no one know how to fly it, and passengers had to endure hours until their certain death...

 

[Zarovitch]

Now the black boxes will never be recovered.
The only clues could be the remains but not a single piece was found until now.
If the route towards southern Indian wasn't on purpose, the most eerie thing could be that after whatever happened it incapacitated the pilots and no one know how to fly it, and passengers had to endure hours until their certain death...

They can still find it.

The last part is terrifying to think of.

 

[Amzin]

Since I have no idea..how deep could the ocean be where they think it may have ended up? I know it can very but I assume we are talking crazy deep right?

Gonna be very tough to ever find the plane itself at the bottom

Unless it was somehow floating down softly like a leaf, the plane is in many, many pieces scattered about the (relatively) nearby ocean, sadly. Water is as effective as rock when you're going more than a few MPH. Just think about how much a belly flop in a pool hurts. Now imagine you're going 300+ MPH. It's not good.

The black box unfortunately has probably sunk somewhere in there, which could take a while to find unless we get lucky. Some parts of the plane will float (that's what they were looking for), some will sink, but overall, the plane itself is certainly gone.

Edit: I guess the main body of the plane could be relatively intact, though. Which would sink. That's where the black box would be as well I believe?

 

[TOP SHOTTA]

It infuriates me how much time they spent fucking around looking for it around Malaysia. Not to mention the arseholes who claimed they saw it crash near Vietnam. Perhaps if there weren't these false reports it might have meant the search area widened and they found the plane faster.

Oh god absolutely. I cannot imagine what it must be like to have to validate everybody's stupid claim. The people that called and false reports just for publicity or as a hoax are pieces of s***. Poor, uneducated, impoverished or not. That just has to be maddening.

Speaking of infuriating. This guy David Mckenzie of CNN Nairobi... I absolutely hate his ice cold smarmy holier than thou style. I am so sick of seeing him sitting with families trying to get them to discuss their deepest fears with him sitting there like 'yeah... yeah... look into my eyes and tell me more'. To me he is everything that is wrong with TV journalism right now. Asshole.

 

[Kinyou]

Most likely at the bottom of the ocean. It's like trying to find a grain of sand in an infinitely big haystack. It's highly unlikely that they'll ever find it.

How big is the search area? After all did they manage to find Air France Flight 447 back then

 

[BFIB]

How big is the search area? After all did they manage to find Air France Flight 447 back then

Even if they find the area where it went down, couldn't the current really pull it away a great distance?

 

[Chococat]

Now the black boxes will never be recovered.

Just because they made an official statement to the families doesn't mean they are going to stop looking for the plane. It just after 2 weeks, using the information they have- there is no since of dragging out the families misery known the likelihood that when a plane crashes into an ocean and there are no rescuers at hand with minutes to days, the chances of survival are grim. The scope has just changed from rescue mission, to a pure recovery one now.

 

[Gustav]

Is that anywhere close to the area the guy on the oil rig supposedly saw the plane going down?

 

[MIMIC]

If the last ping was in the middle of the indian ocean, and how much fuel had the plane, we can do the math and knowing it's now in the ocean?

I said "HOW the plane came to a halt" (i.e. did it careen in to the ocean and explode into a jillion pieces or did it crash land in the water and could possibly still be intact...which would possibly explain the lack of debris after 17 days)

I did not dispute that it is probably in the ocean.

 

[Fusebox]

This has been explained a lot in this thread. The phone rings before it establishes a connection. Call a friend in the same room. You'll hear a ring before they get the call.

Not if their phone is off or out of service though.