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Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 ended in the Southern Indian Ocean

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Chittagong

Gold Member
Something does not add up in the information released.

- They knew pretty much exactly where the plane entered water based on ACARS data
- Locating the AF447 black took 2 years

Whereas

- They have a very vague idea on the general direction of MH370
- The search area is enormous, hundreds of times bigger than AF447
- The area is really deep water so to detect the signal you would need to be nearly directly above
- ???
- They manage to locate the black boxes in a couple of weeks
 

DiscoJer

Member
I think some of the costs are dubious.

I mean, it's not like the ships would be docked and unmanned. They'd be sailing around someplace, doing something else.

I guess planes searching probably cost fuel, they might be grounded otherwise.
 

Vashetti

Banned
10.52 Hishammuddin Hussein, Malaysia's transport minister has told the world, 30 days after the plane went missing and as Australia detects what it says are pulse signals from the black box at a depth of 4,500ft in the Indian Ocean, that "miracles do happen" and that "we continue to pray for survivors".

Simply delusional. Stop giving the families false hope.

It's harsh, but all of those people are dead. It's an awful thing, whatever happened; but they're all dead.
 

Sloane

Banned
Simply delusional. Stop giving the families false hope.

It's harsh, but all of those people are dead. It's an awful thing, whatever happened; but they're all dead.
Yeah, was about to say it, those statements sound incredibly weird and irresponsible.
 

ponpo

( ≖‿≖)
Something does not add up in the information released.

- They knew pretty much exactly where the plane entered water based on ACARS data
- Locating the AF447 black took 2 years

Whereas

- They have a very vague idea on the general direction of MH370
- The search area is enormous, hundreds of times bigger than AF447
- The area is really deep water so to detect the signal you would need to be nearly directly above
- ???
- They manage to locate the black boxes in a couple of weeks

With the Air France flight, despite them trying, I don't think the audible beacon from the boxes were ever detected. It was eventually found using submersibles and sonar that found plane wreckage, among it the boxes.

If they don't find the boxes via the 'ping' now and continue searching, they'll have to do it a similar way.
 

dalin80

Banned
Simply delusional. Stop giving the families false hope.

It's harsh, but all of those people are dead. It's an awful thing, whatever happened; but they're all dead.

Everyone knows that the people are dead, this isn't a rescue mission and noone is being mislead into thinking so. This is about finding answers.
 

liquidtmd

Banned
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ery-what-happens-next-if-they-find-MH370.html


Malaysia Airlines mystery: what happens next if they find MH370


It is one month since flight MH370 vanished but authorities now believe they may be zeroing in on a crash location after ping signals possibly emanating from the plane's "black box" of flight and cockpit voice data were detected in the search area

Q: Are the 'pings' from MH370?

A: That remains to be determined, but Australia's search chief said Monday one of the country's naval ships had twice detected signals "consistent" with aircraft black boxes, the strongest indication yet that the hunt for the Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 was on the right trail.

The Ocean Shield is towing a US Navy deep-sea device designed to detect signals from "black boxes", moving slowly back and forth across the ocean to try to pin down a location.

Australian search coordinator Angus Houston said if further readings can be obtained, it could be possible "to establish whether the detections can be confirmed as being from MH370".

The towed pinger locator (TPL-25) sits on the deck of the Australian Defence Vessel Ocean Shield

But the signal beacon on the black box has an average battery life of around 30 days, and could expire any day now. And numerous undersea factors can distort such signals and their location.

Q: If they are from MH370, what happens next?

If the pings are confirmed, authorities would deploy a submersible device to scan the seabed for debris.

If found, the difficult task of reaching and recovering the black box in ocean depths ranging from 4,000-5,000 metres (13,100-16,400 feet) would begin.

Sea floor-mapping and recovery is "a very intense and time-consuming process", said Anthony Brickhouse, an assistant professor at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University in the United States.

But lessons were learnt during the two-year search for the data recorders from the 2009 crash of Air France flight 447, which contributed greatly to today's body of knowledge, he said.

"We know a lot more now that we did before Air France about how to do this," he said.

Q: If the pings are not from MH370, might the plane never be found?

If the pings are confirmed not to be from MH370, the search is back to square one, raising the daunting spectre of an open-ended surface search for floating debris or painstaking sea floor-mapping.

But Air France showed that success is still possible.

Its black boxes were not located before their signals expired, necessitating a two-year search using submersible drones and other means to locate a debris field.

A Remotely Operated Vehicle which can recover items in extreme depths was eventually sent down to pluck the recorders from the seabed.

But authorities had a better idea where the Air France crash occurred. Houston warned that in any scenario, "the recovery operation will take a long, long time" for MH370.

Q: Was the planecommandeered by hijackers or terrorists?

A: This theory gained early attention due to the revelation that two Iranian passengers boarded using stolen passports, and after Malaysian authorities said the plane appeared to have been deliberately diverted.


But Interpol said the Iranians were apparently just illegal immigrants heading to Europe, and Malaysian police last week said investigations had "cleared" all of the plane's 227 passengers.

"I think the possibility of this theory is pretty low," said Terence Fan, an aviation expert at Singapore Management University.

"No one has claimed responsibility or made any demands or any specific threats that we know of to Malaysia Airlines or Malaysia in general. I think we are looking more at technical problems on the plane."

Q: Did one or both of the pilots go 'rogue'?

A: Malaysian authorities have said a knowledgeable flier likely diverted the plane and that its communications systems appear to have been shut off around the time MH370 went missing, suggesting deliberate action in the cockpit.

All of this has led to intense scrutiny of Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah, 53, and First Officer Fariq Abdul Hamid, 27, but no evidence has yet emerged to suggest either held extremist views, had psychological problems or any other motive.

Zaharie, a 33-year veteran of Malaysia Airlines, was a respected senior pilot and evaluator of younger aviators.

Co-pilot Fariq Abdul Hamid, left, and Captain Zaharie Shah

Questions were raised about Fariq when a young South African women said she and a friend were invited into the cockpit of a 2011 flight that he served on – in breach of cockpit security rules.

But those who know Fariq have attested to his good character. He was engaged to be married, according to reports, and was considered a promising pilot.

Q: Did MH370 become a 'ghost plane'?


A: This idea gained traction after Malaysia announced on March 15 – a week after MH370's disappearance – that the plane apparently flew for nearly seven hours after vanishing from radar.

"Ghost planes" -- in which the crew is incapacitated, leaving the plane to fly on aimlessly – have occurred before. In 2005, a Greek Helios Airways plane with 121 aboard flew for hours after a sudden lack of oxygen incapacitated the cockpit crew. It crashed, killing all aboard.

Some believe MH370's pilots diverted the plane due to such an event – possibly attempting to return to Kuala Lumpur airport – but were subsequently incapacitated, leaving the plane to fly on autopilot.

The shutting off of communications systems may have been an attempt to stem a fire caused by faulty electrical circuits.

The stretch of ocean where the plane is believed crashed is also about the distance it would have travelled before running out of fuel, the airline has said.

"For pilots, when something bad happens it's 'Aviate, navigate, then communicate'," said Brickhouse. "If 'communicate' is the third step, in a catastrophic failure your job is to fly the plane first. That may be one reason why we don't know what happened."

Q: What aviation changes might arise from MH370?

A: The aviation industry has a history of learning from disasters and implementing safeguards, making air travel one of the world's safest modes of transport.

However, unless MH370's black box or some wreckage can be recovered, that learning process cannot begin.

But MH370 has already sparked new discussion of implementing real-time satellite tracking of airliners to stop them going missing, and possibly reassessing the pilot's ability to turn off communications systems.

"Having an improved way of tracking aircraft and always knowing where every aircraft is at any given time" is "clearly now a high priority," International Air Transport Association chief Tony Tyler said last week.
 

Smellycat

Member
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...370-missing-Malaysia-Airlines-plane-live.html

10.52 Hishammuddin Hussein, Malaysia's transport minister has told the world, 30 days after the plane went missing and as Australia detects what it says are pulse signals from the black box at a depth of 4,500ft in the Indian Ocean, that "miracles do happen" and that "we continue to pray for survivors".

10.40 The press conference by Malaysia's transport minister is underway. He says "miracles do happen". The Telegraph's Tom Phillips tweets:

I was thinking about this the other day. Is it possible to find any survivors if the plane sank intact?
 

liquidtmd

Banned
I was thinking about this the other day. Is it possible to find any survivors if the plane sank intact?

No.

http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2009/01/how-do-airplanes-float-on-water.html

All airplanes will eventually sink if it is in water, even pressurized planes. (more on that later) But there are several areas in the airplane that have pockets of air that help keep the plane afloat. For example, in the area between the outside skin of the fuselage and the interrior there is a space that is usually insulated and has air that needs to be displaced by the water. In most airplanes built today, the wing is the fuel tank, and since water is heavier than fuel the fuel in the wings help offset some of the weight of the plane…not a lot but some.

There is also air in the cargo hold of larger planes that will help maintain buoyancy until the air is replaced by water. Anyone who thinks an airplane is water tight and will float because it is pressurized is nuts! The airplane is pressurized only while the engines are running and the air being pumped into the aircraft to pressurize it is almost escaping the aircraft just as fast as it is being pumped in. There are control valves in the forward and rear bulkhead that regulate the pressure inside the plane but all pressure is lost if the engines quit running. At the altitude that the A-320 that crashed in the Hudson river was at when it lost it's engines, it probably didn't have much pressurization anyway since it was only a few thousand feet above sea level.

Even if they somehow found an airpocket in a sunk plane miraculously, four weeks with little food / water = nope. Even if they escaped the plane into the sea - same.

The only way these people are alive is if the plane was hijacked and landed in a country - and with no demands forthcoming / claim of ownership / contact from survivors - the chances are nil. 0. Zip. The official saying 'miracles do happen' - appreciate he's the public face, but c'mon man
 

Megasoum

Banned
There was a thread about a guy who survived in a sunk ship by finding an air pocket. You never know man.

1-The ship didn't hit the ocean at high speed before sinking
2-That ship wasn't multiple km deep. The pressure alone is enough to kill you down there no matter if you have air or not.
 

HoosTrax

Member
Local news radio station had some former NTSB guy on as a guest and asked him what else the "pings" could be, if not black boxes. He had some other stuff he wanted to discuss first and got sidetracked and eventually ran out of time before answering the question posed. I was so annoyed; that was the one and only thing I was interested in hearing about, not the rehashed stuff he blathered on about.
 

toxicgonzo

Taxes?! Isn't this the line for Metallica?
New search area based on pings:
mr_012-1.jpg


Screengrab of the ping's electronic waveforms
5373298-3x2-940x627.jpg
 
Local news radio station had some former NTSB guy on as a guest and asked him what else the "pings" could be, if not black boxes. He had some other stuff he wanted to discuss first and got sidetracked and eventually ran out of time before answering the question posed. I was so annoyed; that was the one and only thing I was interested in hearing about, not the rehashed stuff he blathered on about.

I saw an expert say there is almost nothing else it could be. Especially after they tracked it for two hours.
 

Akuun

Looking for meaning in GAF
It's good that they might as least get some answers.
if they take all the boats and submarines out of the ocean, that should help drop the sea level a bit, right?
CNN can get a psychic to create a miniature black hole in the ocean to temporarily drain out the water.
 

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
Still a big search area, but hopefully it's the right place. And I can't make heads or tails of that waveform image. Is it the red/yellow spikes?

CNN can get a psychic to create a miniature black hole in the ocean to temporarily drain out the water.

Obviously it would be a lot safer and easier to just move all the water to the Pacific and Atlantic oceans. I mean, duh, so simple!
 
There was a thread about a guy who survived in a sunk ship by finding an air pocket. You never know man.

The most amazing part of that story is that if the ship had sunk in water only 20' or so deeper, the guy wouldn't have made it since the air he was breathing would have become toxic.
 
Local news radio station had some former NTSB guy on as a guest and asked him what else the "pings" could be, if not black boxes. He had some other stuff he wanted to discuss first and got sidetracked and eventually ran out of time before answering the question posed. I was so annoyed; that was the one and only thing I was interested in hearing about, not the rehashed stuff he blathered on about.

I know this joke's been made 1000000 times
 

ponpo

( ≖‿≖)
Maybe there was a big air bubble and people survived by resorting to cannibalism, like an undersea version of Alive (;゚д゚) ・・・
 

MIMIC

Banned
(CNN) -- The underwater pulses that an Australian navy ship detected over the weekend have not been heard since -- but authorities are not letting that deter them in the search for missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370.

"We have at least several days of intense actions ahead of us," Australian Defense Minister David Johnston told reporters Tuesday. "We're throwing everything at this difficult, complex task."

Investigators hope the signals could be locator beacons from the plane's data recorders, but they're not sure yet. But buoyed by the hope that they're closing in, they reduced the size of the search area Tuesday.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/08/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Oh, for fuck's sake.
 

syllogism

Member
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ed-to-same-point-as-final-half-handshake.html

It is thought that this final "half-handshake" – or satellite contact – could have been the moment at which the plane ran out of fuel and plunged into the Indian Ocean.
Chris McLaughlin, from British satellite company Inmarsat, which helped to identify the route of the plane by analysing its satellite "handshakes", said the location of the new signals appears to coincide with the likely site of the aircraft's final mysterious transmission at 00:19 GMT – eight minutes after its last regular hourly handshake.

After Inmarsat discovered the half-handshake two weeks ago, it estimated a possible endpoint for the flight much further north than previously thought.

The analysis was then further refined by a team of international experts, who used Malaysian radar data and Boeing analysis to assess that the plane was travelling faster than thought, burning up more fuel, and would have landed even further north along the same arc.
Likening the sequence to a car spluttering as it runs out of fuel, Mr McLaughlin told The Telegraph: "The partial handshake would be the plane running out of fuel and faltering for a moment, so the system went off network and then briefly powered up and had communication with the network. The plane looked for a final communication before it went off – and that was it."
So exactly what was speculated at the time when they first revealed that there was a partial handshake. Very compelling evidence when combined with the supposed black box signals coinciding with the estimated location of the ping
 

liquidtmd

Banned
As of now, it's been about 24 hours since they've heard what they thought to be the black boxes.

Either they weren't them or, more likely, they were them and the batteries have given up the ghost as predicted. Regardless - a setback. Hopefully they got enough from them to get a location to intensively search now.
 
I wonder if CNN will somehow obtain a black box simulator and make their anchor report from the inside of it for days at a time yelling out "PING" to show us how it works.
 

AndyD

aka andydumi
They have to know where to send them.

Yep, they said the sub is slow so it would take forever to comb everything, so they wanted a couple more listening passes to narrow down the area somewhat.

Something else I read, they said even when the battery is "dead" and the regular ping pattern ends, the ping will go out occasionally for a few more days if you are in the general area and listening.
 
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