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Man of Steel |OT| It's about action.

Fuck, where to start?

Goyer's ass should be canned asap. The script for MoS was so ridiculously lazy. I keep mulling it over, and no character actually had any sort of development in the film. It's a Superman origin story where we don't even see Clark become Superman. There is no character arc there. No natural progression. Superman doesn't even feel like a character in this shitty movie. It's like Goyer and company seemed to have a bunch of dot-pointed story ideas and instead of writing a script, decided to cut from one idea to the other without any sort of narrative momentum or sense of character purpose.
The non-linear opening act structure may have worked for Batman Begins, but it absolutely hurts this film something fierce.
It's also amazing how long the prologue takes to set up what ends up feeling ultimately hollow.

The deeper ideas that might be explored are brushed aside with a line here or there in order to get to the never-ending action that - while visually impressive in choreography terms, feels completely hollow and boring in narrative terms because no work has been done to make us give a shit about anything going on.

I'm sure I'm not the first person to laugh my ass off at
Superman crying out for Zod to spare those three people against the wall, after Superman himself has just contributed to the thousands upon thousands of deaths that have surely come from his sandbox scrap with Zod.

This film kind of seems like WB taking all the people who complained about there being lack of action in Returns and sitting them down in that donut-chair in hell from The Simpsons. 'So you like action, huh? Here! Take all the action in the world!'

This film was like the anti-Returns in every way; no scenes are given time to breathe, all characters are emotionally absent and the action is unrelenting to the point where you just look at your watch and remember the last time you were dragged to a Transformers movie in theatres. Not only that, but Zimmer's score was downright shitty. I thought he was going to do away with his old bombastic toolkit. I'm starting to believe that since his band of previously uncredited cohorts left him, Inception's 'Time' track is the only genuinely good piece of music he's put out.

The CG was hit and miss. Sometimes it looked fantastic and other times
like when he's landing after catching Lois
it looks Burly Brawl bad.

And while some of the fight choreography was good (especially
Faora moving about from one enemy to the next in the Smallville fight
, Snyder's previously impressive sense of framing was completely absent in lieu of a bunch of dirty close-ups and haphazard PUNCH INS for no goddamn reason. Seriously, some of those punch ins to close ups were downright obnoxious. And yes, I get that the idea of shaking the camera when tracking with Superman might create the impression that he's so fast it's hard to capture him, but that shit was NOT working. Dude took those slow-mo barbs to heart.

The 3D was also completely worthless. I was happy to get The Desolation of Smaug trailer in 3D, though.

Disappointmentonne.
 

Mengy

wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
Fuck, where to start?

Goyer's ass should be canned asap. The script for MoS was so ridiculously lazy. I keep mulling it over, and no character actually had any sort of development in the film. It's a Superman origin story where we don't even see Clark become Superman. There is no character arc there. No natural progression. Superman doesn't even feel like a character in this shitty movie. It's like Goyer and company seemed to have a bunch of dot-pointed story ideas and instead of writing a script, decided to cut from one idea to the other without any sort of narrative momentum or sense of character purpose.
The non-linear opening act structure may have worked for Batman Begins, but it absolutely hurts this film something fierce.
It's also amazing how long the prologue takes to set up what ends up feeling ultimately hollow.

The deeper ideas that might be explored are brushed aside with a line here or there in order to get to the never-ending action that - while visually impressive in choreography terms, feels completely hollow and boring in narrative terms because no work has been done to make us give a shit about anything going on.

I'm sure I'm not the first person to laugh my ass off at
Superman crying out for Zod to spare those three people against the wall, after Superman himself has just contributed to the thousands upon thousands of deaths that have surely come from his sandbox scrap with Zod.

This film kind of seems like WB taking all the people who complained about there being lack of action in Returns and sitting them down in that donut-chair in hell from The Simpsons. 'So you like action, huh? Here! Take all the action in the world!'

This film was like the anti-Returns in every way; no scenes are given time to breathe, all characters are emotionally absent and the action is unrelenting to the point where you just look at your watch and remember the last time you were dragged to a Transformers movie in theatres. Not only that, but Zimmer's score was downright shitty. I thought he was going to do away with his old bombastic toolkit. I'm starting to believe that since his band of previously uncredited cohorts left him, Inception's 'Time' track is the only genuinely good piece of music he's put out.

The CG was hit and miss. Sometimes it looked fantastic and other times
like when he's landing after catching Lois
it looks Burly Brawl bad.

And while some of the fight choreography was good (especially
Faora moving about from one enemy to the next in the Smallville fight
, Snyder's previously impressive sense of framing was completely absent in lieu of a bunch of dirty close-ups and haphazard PUNCH INS for no goddamn reason. Seriously, some of those punch ins to close ups were downright obnoxious. And yes, I get that the idea of shaking the camera when tracking with Superman might create the impression that he's so fast it's hard to capture him, but that shit was NOT working. Dude took those slow-mo barbs to heart.

The 3D was also completely worthless. I was happy to get The Desolation of Smaug trailer in 3D, though.

Disappointmentonne.

I agree on all counts with you Sculli, except for the score by Zimmer. I actually like the soundtrack, it's not as good as William's score for the originals but it worked very well.

I still stand by my opinion (and it still shocks me to say this out loud) that Returns was a better Superman movie than MoS. :(
 

WillyFive

Member
It shouldn't be shocking at all. No reason a decent movie with an odd plot should be called worse than a bad movie with a reactionary plot.

John Carter is a rental at best compared to MoS.

Not really. It felt more compelling than MoS, and it hit the notes it wanted to hit better (that's not to say it hit all of them, but it was still a better movie than MoS).
 

Raptor

Member
You have chosen......poorly.

Don't get me wrong, I do like John Carter, I see it once in a while but to say it was better acted?, better OST? I mean sure you can attribute better arc to a poor pacing of MoS and maybe poor editing, put a great pacing in MoS and I bet any amount the movie will not had this criticisms, the movie moved too fast for its own good at times, not something that break the movie at all for me but maybe other people don't appreciate this.
 

Matrix

LeBron loves his girlfriend. There is no other woman in the world he’d rather have. The problem is, Dwyane’s not a woman.
John Carter >> Superman Returns >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lois and Clark > Man of Steel.

Welp you have gone off the deep end completely. I can't even respond to some of your issues when you do that lol
 
This film kind of seems like WB taking all the people who complained about there being lack of action in Returns and sitting them down in that donut-chair in hell from The Simpsons. 'So you like action, huh? Here! Take all the action in the world!'

This film was like the anti-Returns in every way; no scenes are given time to breathe, all characters are emotionally absent and the action is unrelenting to the point where you just look at your watch and remember the last time you were dragged to a Transformers movie in theatres. Not only that, but Zimmer's score was downright shitty. I thought he was going to do away with his old bombastic toolkit. I'm starting to believe that since his band of previously uncredited cohorts left him, Inception's 'Time' track is the only genuinely good piece of music he's put out.

Absolutely and I cannot wait to read Goyer's reaction to this and how he plans to address it in a sequel. In ironic fashion, MoS seems to have a longer list of complaints than Returns.
 

Matrix

LeBron loves his girlfriend. There is no other woman in the world he’d rather have. The problem is, Dwyane’s not a woman.
Got to get out of here now that the Returns and Lois and Clark love is going, might have a stroke.

Later lol
 

Solo

Member
Don't get me wrong, I do like John Carter, I see it once in a while but to say it was better acted?, better OST? I mean sure you can attribute better arc to a poor pacing of MoS and maybe poor editing, put a great pacing in MoS and I bet any amount the movie will not had this criticisms, the movie moved too fast for its own good at times, not something that break the movie at all for me but maybe other people don't appreciate this.

I said the acting was about equal between the two. But I DEFINITELY preferred the score to JC which I felt was leagues better than MoS'. JC was Giacchino's best work since The Incredibles whereas MoS was kind of slightly above baseline Zimmer for me.
 
Don't get me wrong, I do like John Carter, I see it once in a while but to say it was better acted?, better OST? I mean sure you can attribute better arc to a poor pacing of MoS and maybe poor editing, put a great pacing in MoS and I bet any amount the movie will not had this criticisms, the movie moved too fast for its own good at times, not something that break the movie at all for me but maybe other people don't appreciate this.

You're absolutely high if you think MoS' OST is a ball-hair on John Carter's OST.
 
John Carter >> Superman Returns >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lois and Clark > Man of Steel.

Oh man haha. It seems like you went in with the sole purpose of reaffirming your love for Returns.

There's not much to be said to you SR ruffians at the moment. I just hope history knows where to can you heathens in the future.
 

JB1981

Member
Read Sculli's review and I respect his opinion even if I disagree with basically everything he said. And MoS' OST is fantastic.
 

Matrix

LeBron loves his girlfriend. There is no other woman in the world he’d rather have. The problem is, Dwyane’s not a woman.
I know you love JC but this is so messed up beyond recognition man, I mean lols.

I can understand this JC>MoS for you maybe but Returns for crying out loud?

He put Lois and Clark over MOS. Sculli's opinion became void to me as a huge Superman fan with that.

No issues with some people finding the boring Returns with creepy stalker Supes better, but I draw a line at Cainman.

Have fun fighting over this movie guys lol It will get it's sequel and I'm happy.

I know you do Sculli, which makes me think you have lost your mind... sorry man :(
 

Raptor

Member
I said the acting was about equal between the two. But I DEFINITELY preferred the score to JC which I felt was leagues better than MoS'. JC was Giacchino's best work since The Incredibles whereas MoS was kind of slightly above baseline Zimmer for me.

I don't know man, some of the MoS OST I still listen to them and entered my dialy rotation, I can't even remember a single track of JC and I have seen it a few times.

Giacchino did Speed Racer so he is awesome in my book.
 

JB1981

Member
I don't know man, some of the MoS OST I still listen to them and entered my dialy rotation, I can't even remember a single track of JC and I have seen it a few times.

Giacchino did Speed Racer so he is awesome in my book.

I have been listening to it every day since the movie came out. It's easily Zimmer's best work since Batman Begins. The score is phenomenal. Giacchino's John Carter score is also sublime. It pretty much makes the movie. The scores set out to do entirely different things anyway, so I'm not seeing why the comparison is being made in the first place.
 

Symphonic

Member
I don't know man, some of the MoS OST I still listen to them and entered my dialy rotation, I can't even remember a single track of JC and I have seen it a few times.

Giacchino did Speed Racer so he is awesome in my book.

This is because MoS has a total of like 3 motifs.

Uggghhh here comes the Zimmer love orgy
 
Oh man haha. It seems like you went in with the sole purpose of reaffirming your love for Returns.

I wish. I'm a Snyder defender. I had such high hopes for this movie. I feel so, so disappointed. This feels like I did last year with Prometheus. I can't believe how fucking badly they dropped the ball.

I don't even love Returns. It's got a good set of problems. It certainly isn't the Superman movie needed for the character these days. But fuck me, MoS felt like watching a studio melt money to that godawful techno-remix of If I were a rich man.
 

Raptor

Member
This is because MoS has a total of like 3 motifs.

Uggghhh here comes the Zimmer love orgy

He makes awesome tracks man, Im not sure why the hate.

Is not like Im saying he is the only one worth a damn, I love many composers, ol school too like Morricone :)
 

Bit-Bit

Member
I really liked Superman Returns for what it was.

But I freakin love Man of Steel for what it is. The Superman movie we all deserve.

Like Watchmen, MoS will be looked back upon more fondly than it is now. In time, we will join Snyder in the Sun.
 

Symphonic

Member
I have been listening to it every day since the movie came out. It's easily Zimmer's best work since Batman Begins. The score is phenomenal

Sherlock shits all over anything Zimmer's done since Gladiator

He makes awesome tracks man, Im not sure why the hate.

Is not like Im saying he is the only one worth a damn, I love many composers, ol school too like Morricone :)

His score's have no soul. They're carbon copy "big epic tracks with main theme, then drum focused track for action, then emotional piano piece, etc". He's fallen too much into a set pattern, and it's REALLY apparent when you throw him up against other popular composers. I'm not saying it's too late for him to turn around, he has done some fantastic work, but if he keeps pumping out the same stuff it's kinda scary for the industry. Same sort of thing happened when John Williams got really popular, originality was thrown out the window in general for movies for a decade or so.
 
I could watch that Smallville fight screen over and over. Some of the best super hero action I've seen.

I would say its the best versus combat scene for a superhero movie. It felt epic. But below is the most memorable in my opinion

i2p3FfrqbvPhy.gif

i2VoAyP3jxjwK.gif

izPcHh3PfKhCH.gif


This and the plane scene I could watch a decade from now and still be left in awe.
 
Thanks to the wonder of On Demand, I watched John Carter for the first time a few weeks ago. Since we're sharing war stories in this thread, I'll briefly share too. I feel that it it's an average-to-good movie: not deserving of any of the extreme hate it got, but not worthy of the outlandish praise it's gotten here.
 
Sherlock shits all over anything Zimmer's done since Gladiator



His score's have no soul. They're carbon copy "big epic tracks with main theme, then drum focused track for action, then emotional piano piece, etc". He's fallen too much into a set pattern, and it's REALLY apparent when you throw him up against other popular composers. I'm not saying it's too late for him to turn around, he has done some fantastic work, but if he keeps pumping out the same stuff it's kinda scary for the industry. Same sort of thing happened when John Williams got really popular, originality was thrown out the window in general for movies for a decade or so.

Now this I can agree with - so long as we're not including collaborations. Because Zimmer seems to only be able to do anything special these days when he's collaborating (ala his work with John Powell on the KFP movies).
 

Symphonic

Member
Never had any interest in the movie and never heard the soundtrack.

Give it a shot. It's where all my Zimmer loathing comes from, the fact that he can create something like that and then turn around and distribute TDKR/MoS junk.

No, but I saw the movie. I imagine the OST was used in the movie, no?

If you're going to argue about which OST is better, you need to listen to both separate from the movie. Just based on principal. There are countless scores that shine when you cut them off from the visual.

MoS is not one of them
 

JB1981

Member
No, but I saw the movie. I imagine the OST was used in the movie, no?

The OST is not mixed that well into the movie. It's better as a standalone listen. I still think there are moments that work beautifully in the movie, though. The scene when Kal's ship is leaving Krypton, the scene where he overcomes the World Engine (GODDAMN HE KILLED IT THERE).
 
I have been listening to it every day since the movie came out. It's easily Zimmer's best work since Batman Begins. The score is phenomenal.

I haven't even seen this movie yet but the soundtrack makes me want to go like, today. I hate when people shit on a soundtrack because it's "epic," I mean yeah it's kind of an epic movie isn't it? I'm still finding some good themes and some very pleasing sounds overall. John Carter's score is also terrific but I don't see how that has anything to do with this, usually Giacchino is terrific so that goes without saying.

I'm not even the biggest Hans Zimmer fan but when he hits the right notes for me, no pun intended, I'm usually very impressed.
 

Mengy

wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
I really liked Superman Returns for what it was.

But I freakin love Man of Steel for what it is. The Superman movie we all deserve.

Like Watchmen, MoS will be looked back upon more fondly than it is now. In time, we will join Snyder in the Sun.

I absolutely love Watchmen, it's my favorite super hero movie, I even like it more than Avengers. But MoS had very little of what makes Watchmen (director's cut) a great movie. Seeing as how Snyder did both I was extremely optimistic for MoS, but he dropped the ball on several story points. Little details that make Watchmen DC awesome were glaringly missing from MoS, and it needed them badly.
 
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