brandonh83
Banned
Even his soundtracks for Shyamalan's last three or four shit fests have been phenomenal. Howard don't give a fuck, he could score a tree growing and it would be incredible.
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Man of Steel |OT| It's about action.
- Thread starter MisterHero
- Start date
Even his soundtracks for Shyamalan's last three or four shit fests have been phenomenal. Howard don't give a fuck, he could score a tree growing and it would be incredible.
I do love Watchmen too, but I think Snyder and probably Nolan wanted to make a point with MoS, they wanted to say "this ain't Donner's anymore" this is a new take "with" action.
Now that the origin and that is out of the way I guaranteed MoS 2 will be the best superhero movie of the history of the world.
Snyder needs badly a new editor though.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
Even James Newton Howard's score for Snow White and the Huntsman was damned good.
He was also the biggest missing piece from TDKR, besides a decent script (I can't believe Goyer and co have gotten even worse in that dept).
He was also the biggest missing piece from TDKR, besides a decent script (I can't believe Goyer and co have gotten even worse in that dept).
brandonh83
Banned
While it's true that I've despised every movie that Snyder has made with the exception of Dawn of the Dead, Man of Steel being worse than John Carter would be a landmark achievement of bland, uninteresting mediocrity.
I didn't even think John Carter was TERRIBLE but I'd never watch it again
You mean John Bomba is a better movie than Man of Bomba?
lols.
John Bomba deserved better. At least Clark Kent Begins will be getting a sequel.
Matrix
LeBron loves his girlfriend. There is no other woman in the world hed rather have. The problem is, Dwyanes not a woman.
Plane scene "iconic" in Returns? lol overrated scene to this day that irks that shit out of me for various reasons. If it's free reign to blast MOS, then that Returns plane scene is gonna get some later from me today.
Cos-fucking-playing with Reeve/Kidder's legacy.
Cos-fucking-playing with Reeve/Kidder's legacy.
He ascended to God Tier for me with his Lady in the Water OST.
Hell, Im listening to it right now on youtube lols.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
Returns still remains the most beautiful looking superhero film around.
Anton Sugar
Member
Yes! So glad someone else called this out.
Future Foundation
Member
I'll agree on this. Better acting, better writing, better promotion. I would've liked to have seen Gods of Mars.
The very last scene with Supes flying away with the Superman March is so wonderful.
MoS's failings are just that big, I guess. I did have a more entertaining time with JC but you're right in that it falls on the bland side.
brandonh83
Banned
The Village is my favorite of his work.
The quality of the Batman scores is compelling to me, considering that Howard and Zimmer collaborated. They're good scores, but when I heard that they were doing them together I was thinking they would be some next-level shit, like the cure for deafness or something.
Yeah, I'll have to see for myself I guess.
Matrix
LeBron loves his girlfriend. There is no other woman in the world hed rather have. The problem is, Dwyanes not a woman.
I'm not even talking about that. That's great that it's pretty lol
I got to go to work
Oh my god there's more of you
I love you all
I grow tired of Zimmer's usual bombast but this score really works for me. I can listen to the whole OST almost all the way through and not grow tired of it. And there are some moments in this movie that Zimmer captures beautifully.
"Make a better world, Kal." - love that scene.
You got a point. TDKR's score was also forgettable; despite TDK having great parts like Joker's theme and Batman Begins having this one. It felt like it just reused music from the first two.
Yeah. I was excited for a sequel after John Carter's ending (because it was a great ending), but I was just upset at MoS by the end.
Salvor.Hardin
Banned
You're being way too harsh on MoS. Some of the flashbacks with young Clark were great. The sense of isolation you feel he's surrounding himself in as he gets older is strong. There are parts that touch on Clark Kent from Superman 2, but go deeper.
For instance, in Superman 2, Clark gets bullied at a bar and you see him stand up for what's right, but that's all you see. The way Cavill reacts at the bar has more emotional resonance than all of Returns.You feel his frustration and his childhood creep up on him, you think of his father's words, you think of his own personal beliefs and his search for his origin. It was just one of many scenes that added a few unfamiliar layers to a character that make complete sense.
Yes, the dialogue was a bit stilted at times, but I vastly preferred it to Nolan verbalizing every single feeling that his characters in the Batman films feel.
Then there's the supporting cast like Crowe and Costner who hit it out of the park, and Shannon who is clearly having a bit of fun hamming it up.
Once the action started, it didn't let up and it did go on for too long. They could have done with a couple of scenes aimed at character development after the Smallville fight.
Also, regarding Zod,
collatoral damage is one thing, but having control of stopping someone from burning a family right in front of you is another, especially if you've never killed a person before. We shouldn't take Clark's exasperation at that point for granted.
brandonh83
Banned
Oddly Zimmer's scores generally take a while to grow on me. The first time I heard Inception's I wasn't impressed at all, but over time I really started to appreciate it more, especially tracks like Old Souls which is just incredibly atmospheric and quite different from the norm.
Alternatively, his Man of Steel soundtrack won me over almost immediately. And I don't even have the context to consider yet either.
Yea Zod in this movie is a big improvement on Terrence Stamp in Superman II. Zod had no motivation in that movie other than tyrranical rule. He was a completely one-note villain. At least Goyer's Zod is a somewhat sympathetic character and we can see his plight. He has lost his world and is fulfilling his purpose as he was designed. He also has a much richer connection to Jor-El. Jor-El is also a big improvement and I found his relationship with Kal even more touching (and real) than Donner's Superman.
I also like the Zimmer's work on MoS. It's not what I expected(or what Zimmer himself said it was gonna be), but it's pretty nice.
You sure like your orange tones, don't you. Returns is just dull to look at.
If only MoS held on to its shots for longer periods of time. Man. I remember a time when I thought MoS would be a gorgeous movie. Then again didn't know the entire movie was going to be drenched in blue.
You sure like your orange tones, don't you. Returns is just dull to look at.
If only MoS held on to its shots for longer periods of time. Man. I remember a time when I thought MoS would be a gorgeous movie. Then again didn't know the entire movie was going to be drenched in blue.
So much hate....I just got back from an advance screening here, thought it was pretty decent. After watching Superman Returns on the weekend, it felt like they went in the completely opposite direction.....maybe even too far? the first half of the film was great and even though I was glad they didn't spend too much time setting up his origin story, a part of me actually wanted to see more of it because it would have made the second half so much better because you form an emotional connection with the characters and care what happens instead of just being exhausted by the action. Smallville battle was great though. Loved Kevin Costner and Russell Crowe, wish we got too see more of them. Henry Cavill and Amy Adams were fine as well, no complaints on the casting.
I really hope this does well enough to ensure sequels and bring in other DC heroes, give me Worlds Finest in this universe and I will be ecstatic
I really hope this does well enough to ensure sequels and bring in other DC heroes, give me Worlds Finest in this universe and I will be ecstatic
brandonh83
Banned
I agree with Sculli about Returns, it's just beautiful and expertly crafted on a visual basis. It's a shame that the content didn't really live up to its visual elegance but it's damn nice to look at.
Yeah is pretty, like looking at a Mountain vista, pretty but you can fall asleep looking at it.
I think Returns is a nice looking movie as well and has some gorgeous shots. I love the shot of Superman with the Krypton island above him and I love when he drinks in power from the Sun .. beautiful scenes. I don't hate Returns at all ... Man of Steel is just going for something entirely different and I think it succeeds at that.
It's a shame that it's virtually impossible to buy Returns on blu-ray right now.
It's a shame that it's virtually impossible to buy Returns on blu-ray right now.
brandonh83
Banned
The pacing and narrative momentum crashes along with the plane.
Some stuff later on in the movie is pretty cool though and it hits some emotional beats.
I'm not sure what people find so great looking about Returns. There are a couple nicely shot sequences, like the plane rescue or Supes chasing/lifting the car with Lex's lady in it (Kitty?), but I don't really see the same "most beautifully shot superhero movie ever" praise that others give it. I think the Dark Knight trilogy and both of Snyder's superhero films are much more remarkable looking.
There is a scene where he is descending in the Fortress, that is my favorite scene of that movie.
I don't hate it either I just think is up there with Blade 3 as one of the worse ComicBook movies I have ever seen, coincidentally both have Parker Posey
lols.
I don't really understand it either. It's just Sculli saying that crap, to be honest, and others just deferring to his opinion. Returns is dull as fuck from every single conceivable point of view.
brandonh83
Banned
Nope I thought it had great cinematography before I even knew this Sculli
And I certainly don't defer to his opinion, I think we agree about Speed Racer and Michael Giacchino and that's about it.
Future Foundation
Member
There are scenes like the one Raptor mentions:
There's the end shot of him flying up into the clouds and sun, then out into space. Though I hate the act itself, the shot of him lifting the Krypto-Island into space is lovely, as is the shot of him charging up into the sun right before that. Him and Lois flying around Metropolis is really nice, but that's more due to the wonderful piece of music that accompanies it.
It's just a really good looking movie. At least I think so, anyway.
Although Zod was given better motivation in this movie, his actor was a complete miscast. He had no gravitas or weight to his role, if the camera wasn't on him all the time he would have disappeared into the background noise.
It's got great imagery. But beyond that I don't really care for it.
Can Crusher
Banned
I haven't reviewed any movie before seeing it. And MOS fans can spin that all they want, doesn't change anything.
You just end up looking bitter that the movie fell so far off the mark.
I'm sure someday some of you will come around to explaining why is that so, you know one day. I guess right now it's a bit hard to explain some of the feelings considering MOS has terrible character development, terrible story arc, terrible pacing... Oh and what about those themes? "Oh yeah we got these big themes, let's just give them a poorly delivered 5 minute flashback scene".
All this love because Cavill looks like superman and buildings fall and shit. The superman suit scene alone was just terribad, something that looked like it was going deliver this sense of freedom and joy and pure excitement.... ended up being just this goddamn empty scene with terrible voice over, that only accomplishes in delivering some cool visual moments when he's flying.
Movie basically is the final nail in the coffin as far as Snyder being considered a hack. It's no surprise to me since he completely fumbled the big fundamentals of Watchmen.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
I swear some people saw a different movie than I did.
Loved Zod (yes, hammy, but that was the fun part of the movie)
Thought the character development was rich
Loved the story
Loved Zod (yes, hammy, but that was the fun part of the movie)
Thought the character development was rich
Loved the story
Is very easy to explain, I don't agree with the people that say JC is better in those departments, and that I think MoS is a very good movie in all departments, sure it has flaws like all movies, this one IMO has pacing and editing issues like I said in my review just after I saw it.
Still loved the movie, on the contrary I thought JC failed in so many areas, again this is my opinion people will disagree all they want though
That's why I said JC is a rental at best because that is what I did, I rented and saw it, MoS I watched it 2 times already in the cinema and I plan to buy it.
Right there with you, loved all of that. I thought Zod was done fantastically. Loved the motivation.
Can Crusher
Banned
It's mostly about what you look in a movie.
Why did you think Zod was great? Aside from looking like Marcus Phoenix, the character was incredibly empty, ironically he was like this black hole that just sucks the life of everything around him. What do you know about him? What do you know about his relationship with any of those who surround him?
Zod essentially only seems to have history with Jor El. Zod is basically bad guy 101, he's about as flat as you can get with a villain.
How was character development rich? Lois Lane is flat, and her romantic link with Superman is there just because it had to be there, since I mean... What exactly even happened between them to warrant that kiss? At best their relationship reached the same heights that Portman - Thor did in the Thor movie.
Clark's relationship with everyone who surrounds him is based on concept ideas delivered by bad dialog and rushed sequences that suck the meaning out of them.
Let me just refer to the "the world is too big mom" line, I mean... that just came absolutely out of nowhere. The concept was there, but nothing made it warranted for the kid to say those words.
The relationship he has with his mother is resumed to two brief scenes, the relationship he has with his father is slightly more developed, even if it too is basically in fast forward moment, further hampered down by completely undermining his death through bad editing.
Man honestly, I could go on and on about the problems this movie have. Hell an easy fix would be to cut some of that time Snyder spent shooting door knobs, and spend it on character development.
The story is good? Shit is full of plotholes. Why the hell did they send Zod and his friends to the black hole, in a goddamn terraforming ship? That's just the beginning too..
And the OST sucked for this movie, because honestly there wasn't a single moment where I thought the music was elevating what was happening on screen. And that's what matters, it's not whether you like the listening to those pieces, it's about their effect and use on screen.
Is very easy to explain, I don't agree with the people that say JC is better in those departments, and that I think MoS is a very good movie in all departments, sure it has flaws like all movies, this one IMO has pacing and editing issues like I said in my review just after I saw it.
Still loved the movie, on the contrary I thought JC failed in so many areas, again this is my opinion people will disagree all they want though
That's why I said JC is a rental at best because that is what I did, I rented and saw it, MoS I watched it 2 times already in the cinema and I plan to buy it.
See, it's all just empty statements. In the review you wrote, you basically spent your time telling everybody how empty and poor the movie is, and how the positives were basically Cavill is a cool superman. How does John Carter not have better editing, better pacing, better character development. For starters the romantic link makes sense unlike in MOS, John Carter as a character isn't just developed through concepts of ideas. Hell it has humor, and it has an heart and it's trying to make characters come alive.
Everybody has an opinion, but opinions have to make sense when you are trying to actually understand the quality of something. So JC was a rental for you, and you already seen MOS 2 times at the cinema. All that tells me is you really love Superman, and you were waiting for a movie where Superman gets to bang hard. It tells me nothing of the quality of the movie.
Your review did though. And according to your review, the movie fails in too many areas to be considered above JC.
That's a good comparison. Both relationships felt forced.
Still 100 times better than Returns or X-men 1 and 2
Its a movie. Not a novel. We don't need to know his relationship with his whole fucking crew. What kind of crap critcism is this? I have never once heard anyone make these kinds of comments.
"Yeah the movie was cool and all but what was the main villains relationship with his crew members?".
You want relationship? They supported him and his attempt to take over Krypton in an attempt to save Krypton. What else do we need to know? He was was a military general and they his loyal supporters.
No. Zod is shown to be someone who is bred genetically to perform one function. Protect and serve the people of Krypton. Its why he tried to over throw the leaders of Krypton, its why he wants the codex, its why he fights Jor El (even-though he agrees with Jor El that the planet is about to blow), and its why he is willing to destroy all human kind to save his own race.
Flat would be a villain who just wants to take over for power and rule the whole galaxy.
This I agree with. Thought the attempt was to show that they go through some of the trials together so they form a bond.
Resumed? There is nothing to resume. I agree they could have used more time on the flashbacks or his youth but what they did use shows us exactly what his relationship with is with his Earth parents, his classmates, and his environment.
The world is too big line is because he is hearing everything around the world and seeing it too. So when she comes to help him he knows SHE WILL KNOW exactly what he is talking about.
His relationship with his father is done probably the best only because its the more complicated relationship.
Story being good has nothing to do with plotholes. The story can be good and still have plot holes. Also ALL movies have plotholes. Depends on if you liked the overall package. If you don't, only then do you actually sit back and nitpick every single scene, line, and story element.
With that said, Zod and his crew were imprisoned by the leaders of Krypton. They did not think the planet was going to blow. Earlier they were rejecting Jor El's claims. To them it does make sense to freeze Zod and his group until all eternity for treason.
And they were not sent with a ship. That ship and others which they then brought to Eart were only gathered after Krypton blew up, breaking the seal of their imprisonment. They then wondered the universe looking for Kryptonians, visiting lost colonies, and THERE THEY GATHERED THE SHIPS.
The music part is very subjective, but I thought the majority here found the score to be pretty awesome and bombastic.
It has some pretty gorgeous scenes. Even simple long-shots like Clark walking from his parent's house to the fence have amazing color and no visual gimmicks or intense color grading to take away from their effectiveness.
Man of Steel & Returns are pretty different in their approaches, so I'm finding completely different reasons to like both films.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Zod's a great example of the simgle-minded foe who is apparently unstoppable *and* convinced he is in the right. It's a terrifying prosprect to face somebody who's both more powerful and more sure of themselves and their motives.
I don't think anyone outside of Superman shows character development. This is his movie. But between the flashbacks, the vignettes of him as an itenerant, and the scenes where he surrenders to humanity show a ton of development. What other action movie has its main character hit half that many beats?
I can pick at your examples-- Superman had saved Lois 3 times, and she had obsessed over him. She was the first person to reach out to him and trust him while knowing his secret. I think that warrants attraction.
"The world is too big" made complete literal sense in that moment. As a parent of yound kids, it sounded perfect.
This tells me that you weren't paying attention. Admittedly, the details are overly complex (a complaint I have with the movie) but that isn't what happened at all. "Black Hole" was their method of imprisonment, and they escaped, and found a terraforming ship in their years in exile.
By story, I mean they story.
Alien child sent to earth
Grows up isolated
Discovers the truth/his own people
They turn out to be dicks/genocidal invaders
Humainty doesn't trust him
He fights aliens, forms bond with people he never had before by coming out of the closet
That's a pretty great story.
Anton Sugar
Member
The trailer's "the world is too big" exchange blows away how stilted it is in the movie.
Kid starts freaking out because he can see skulls and veins and shit (which was a great scene), hides in a closet, and comes up with "the world is too big"? Ugh.
Kid starts freaking out because he can see skulls and veins and shit (which was a great scene), hides in a closet, and comes up with "the world is too big"? Ugh.
That's because he was hearing trains, cars, etc, from miles away. His super hearing was kicking in and essentially rendering him as if he had ADHD/Aspergers.
And this is the same dude hailing Avatar's snooze fest, joke of an OST. Yeah.
Regardless Sculli was dead-set against the movie from the first teaser, so expectedatonne.
Probably more.
This is all certainly true, but I suppose Cavill's performance and Zimmer's score were enough to get me through Goyer's problems, and Snyder was really trying his best. Goyer could really use a helping hand when it comes to pacing and keeping the eye on the ball.